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Help with Suboxone and addiction




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Old 12-23-2008, 02:23 PM   #1
overabadhabbit
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Help with Suboxone and addiction

Wondering how a non-user supports a vicodine addict who can't admit that he's an addict/abuser/user, he's in denial.
Making doctor appointments, going to the doctors, last one was to a "specialist" that prescribed suboxone. Good grief this stuff or rather what I am learning was withdrawl symptoms made my husband sicker than a sick dog.
Calling to the doctor daily didn't help matters when symptoms were explained. Would the craziness and sickness be from taking the suboxone and the vicodine together? I have been reading the posts here and I am so amazed at what I obviously can not fathom. I have no history with drugs or drug abuse and really am scared that denial will kill my husband. He had some surgery a year ago and says he is in a tremendous amount of pain. He hasnt' worked in a year and life is taking it's toll on him. Any suggestions, help, direction anything would be greatly appreciated.

 
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Old 12-25-2008, 03:22 PM   #2
mk7657
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Re: Help with Suboxone and addiction

Do you know if your addict-friend is taking the suboxone? Do you see him put it in his mouth? The reason I am asking this is because Suboxone can be sold on the street and the money used to buy heroin, vicodin-- whatever the addict wants.

If a person is faithfully taking suboxone, then the vicodin will have no effect on pain or well-being. The suboxone blocks all of the opiate effects of other drugs. It does this by binding tightly to the opiate receptors in the spinal cord and brain. It binds so tightly that it will knock other opiates off of the receptors; hence, suboxone is usually prescribed when the addict is in withdrawal. Opiates cannot knock it off the receptor site after it has attached. That is what makes it a good medicine to start recovery.

I'm sorry that you have having such a tough time. One of the ugly truths of addiction is that it is a very selfish disease. He must be the one to take the first step: admitting that he has a problem, that his life is out of control, and that he needs help. Once he admits that he has a problem then he must accept that he can't do it on his own. He will find all or most of the help he needs through counseling, sites like this one, and other recovering addicts. I hope and pray that he reaches this point. Each and every addict that I know in recovery has to come to grips with acceptance. It is critical before recovery can start.

Good luck, and stay in touch. Keep posting.

mk

Last edited by mk7657; 12-25-2008 at 03:26 PM.

 
Old 12-26-2008, 05:38 AM   #3
overabadhabbit
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Re: Help with Suboxone and addiction

Thanks for the information. I have seen him take the suboxone. When he does he puts it under his tounge and let's it melt. Shortly there after he gets a very nauseous stomach, severe headaches and sleeps a whole heck of a lot. When he started the suboxone he was told to call the doctor every day to tell him how he is doing. As he did though the feedback from the doctor was indifferent.
Now my friend I do believe he is really hurting but I can not fathom why he's hurting so much. We've gone together to have ct's, mri's, x-rays the whole cammut and there is not a doctor or surgeon we have seen that says that he has anything medically wrong with him. All stats are good all pictures are perfect but alas he's still "suffering". He says the only thing that helps is the vicodine to take away "some" of the pain.
What are the real withdrawl symptoms of not taking the vicodine.
Right now, we are at a point that he has maybe 5 vicodine pills left. That's it. The doctor he was getting them from has now refused to refill his script because he didn't tell him that he saw another doctor - a pain management doc - prescribed the suboxone.
My fear is that he will obtain more vicodine once he is completely out from either family or friends that have given them to him before he actually got a script from a doctor.
How do I ask them not to supply him with these monsters?
My friend is a very prideful man and is subborn as all get out, but he doesn't see what he's doing to himself. I believe a lot of his pain is self generated because he holds stuff in and doesn't talk about his troubles. We all have them! I too have them. I come off as being the one "throwing stones" because I don't understand the pain he has.
Boy could I tell you stories about what is going on with this guy. Anyone in their right mind would want medication to numb the pain too!
I keep looking here because this place appears to have truth rather than the "sugar coated crap".
Aside from taking a board up against his head to get him to wake up and see the dangers what is there to do.
I don't know, so here I am today working on filling out yet another questionaire for another doctor visit to find some help.

 
Old 12-27-2008, 01:50 AM   #4
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Re: Help with Suboxone and addiction

It the pain cannot be explained by disc damage, pinched nerves, or whatever, and they have looked into the body with xrays and MRI's, then Fibromialgya, if I have it spelled right, is a common diagnosis (pain that cannot be explained). Most doctors will assume that if he says that he hurts, he does.

It sounds like he is taking the suboxone as directed. Since that is the case, then the vicodin should not have any effect. Suboxone stays in the body a long time (36 hr half-life), so it would take a few days free from any suboxone before he could feel anything from the vicodin. I am not surprised that the doctor took his vicodin prescription away. If the suboxone doctor finds out, then it will be very difficult for him to get any relief at all for his pain. Most pain management doctors have the patient sign a pain-management agreement. It says, in writing, that they will not take any other pain meds or go to any other doctors for their pain unless it is an emergency, at least until they can see their regular doc. And, if he needs to see a doctor right away, the physician needs to know ALL of the meds he is taking. Additionally, his pain management doctor needs to informed of the emergency visit to another doctor as well.

If he says that he is getting relief from the vicodin, then it is psychological, imho. If you gave him a sugar pill while he was on suboxone and told him it was vicodin, he would probably say that he feels something from it. However, who really knows except for him.

Since he is in pain and he has a problem taking opiates, suboxone or methadone are good alternatives.

I'm hopeful that he will come to grips with his addiction. Sadly, there are only a few things you can do to help. You can tell him that if he doesn't get help, NA, rehab, or whatever, then you are going to leave him. You have to stick with your ultimatum if you go this route. My wife gave me an ultimatum, and I got the help that I needed. Hence, it does work. On the other hand, it is nerve racking and a lot of feelings get hurt using "tough love." Another option is to tell his doctor. That is even harsher and may have even more severe consequences.

Good luck. Helping an addict into recovery is difficult, but can be very rewarding if you are successful. Recovering addicts are a great bunch of people to be around. The primary reason that this is so is because they have to learn to get well from the inside out. Recovery is doing a lot of psychological clean-up work on the inside. The best that I have seen it explained is "addiction is a non-curable fatal disease." The most that any addict can hope for is that this disease will go into remission using a good recovery program. Even then, it is still a life-long battle.

Good luck,

mk

Last edited by mk7657; 12-27-2008 at 01:59 AM.

 
Old 12-27-2008, 07:04 AM   #5
skamonkey
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Re: Help with Suboxone and addiction

it sounds like hes taking too much suboxone at once. it depends on the abount of opiate that he is used to taking. when i first began to do pills, i would take 3 norco a day twice a day and i wanted to kick the habit so i started on suboxone and a whole one made me sicker than i ever had been. but as any addict does, i relapsed and my addiction grew worse until i turned to heroin and dylodin...or however you spell it. and still being a ridiculous junkie like myself, a half of a suboxone will get me well...so try telling him to take less and see if that eases the sickness he feels from them.

 
Old 12-29-2008, 05:57 AM   #6
overabadhabbit
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Re: Help with Suboxone and addiction

Wow Mk, you have been to beeping **** and back then. Right now he isn't taking the suboxone and his sleepiness, confusion and headaches have disipitated. He is taking a bit of his limited supply of vicodine this past week and now. I believe he's only got 7 pills left he's been quartering them. His attitude this week is better but his complaint level has increased. WE have DISCUSSED loudly for the umteenth time what he needs, should or could do to help himself. He is sick and tired from going to the doctors. I keep pushing because nothing is explained. I am sure he needs to keep plugging away to find answers to the "problems".
Believe me I do think a lot of his problems stem from unresolved issues within himself through his past. Good grief, if anything could get any worse I am sure they would.
In the last couple of years we have gone through, losing a child, mother, brother, very close uncle & aunt, a nephew, total loss house fire, loss of a job, his back surgery and being turned down from Social Security and at this point has lost health insurance too. He isn't a very open man and keeps stuff in side so long it most likely will eat him to death. All this stuff is in the last couple of years but he has had a horrible childhood and an even worse marriage.
I really appreciate the information and suggestion on the other diagnosis - I definately will get the doctor to check into that. What have we got to lose?

 
Old 12-29-2008, 06:02 AM   #7
overabadhabbit
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Re: Help with Suboxone and addiction

skamonkey:
He was only taking 1/4 of the tiny little pill 3xs a day. Maybe that wasn't enough and he was actually going throught he withdrawls. Not real clear on exactly what symptoms he will endure from not taking all the pain meds.
Your information is very helpful though. I certainly appreciate the kind words of support and the ability to "talk" with others about this problem. It helps to vent. Good grief, I certainly can't tell anyone in the family about this. There already has been so much sorrow and pain dwelling there as it is. This would only make things worse.

 
Old 12-29-2008, 11:23 PM   #8
Pilllover5555
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Re: Help with Suboxone and addiction

Hello there, I was addicted to vicodin for 10 years and took 45 pills a day! Finally I was ready to get off, they said would you like to try Methadone OR Suboxone? I said which is less addictive and easier to get off of? They told me they are both hard to get off of but if you go with the Suboxone we will tapper you off very slowly. Well here I am 6 years later STILL on SUBOXONE! When first taking it I was told by my female doctor that I would get sick to my stomach the first week or so and get very tired after taking it so those symptoms are normal. The female doctor I was going to kept me on the highest dose 32mg for 5 years because she sold them to me out of her office! I finally said this is getting me no where, I mean she wasnt even putting me through therapy or anything! She is now out of practice thanks to me and others reporting her! I have now been at a great place for 1 year seeing the doc every month and going to NA meetings and seeing a social worker every week. I am now down from 32 mg to 6 mg!!!! I have a lot of experience with "Doctor shopping" I had ten doctors at once giving me vicodin, you can even order it off the internet its very easy. So try to keep your friend on the suboxone, hopefully they are not on a high dose, from what I am told your only to be on Suboxone for like 2 weeks and thats it! Now here I am cutting down 2mg every 2 weeks I feel great right now and I am so frustrated at that female doctor for having me on this stuff for SO MANY YEARS! Ask the doctor how long they are to be on this. <removed>. Any questions feel free to ask me or anyone here. Good luck and happy holidays!

Last edited by mod-anon; 12-30-2008 at 04:41 AM. Reason: do not instruct members on how to find commercial websites.

 
Old 12-30-2008, 06:23 AM   #9
overabadhabbit
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Re: Help with Suboxone and addiction

Wow! that's just crazy. I will count my blessings because it's only been about 2 years with the vicodine use. Hopefully, we'll get him someone that can understand what is really going on because I am at a total and complete loss.
Researching the Suboxone didn't come across stuff regarding side effects of this stuff. Live and learn. Thanks for the information it is quite helpful. I am finding that the message boards is a good source of honest information.

Happy New Year to you and yours.

 
Old 12-30-2008, 05:05 PM   #10
Pilllover5555
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Re: Help with Suboxone and addiction

Good luck and happy new years!

Last edited by mod-anon; 12-30-2008 at 10:34 PM. Reason: Please read and follow the posting rules

 
Old 12-30-2008, 11:54 PM   #11
rickya44
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Re: Help with Suboxone and addiction

I saw my PMC doc. today; and he read me the 'riot act' as usual, regarding pain medication, because I cannot see the shrink who put me on the Suboxone Detox Protocol; like all of you guys I have alot of empathy, understanding, and am grateful for your feedback; and for the mere facts that there is a site, where 'real' human beings can give thier own case study; and not any PDR; or Psychopharmaceutical Rsch. Co's. He had to put me back on Pcet for one week tilll I have my appt.; and then, I will have researched, maybe come across other methods of Detox, and present this data to him-- --So, he cannot pull anythingon me , like yeterday at the ER; when the ER physcn. told me' your doctor does not believe he "abbreviated" your Detox protocol/managment' And when D/Cd from the ER, the Dx for my Tx in the ER was for 'Drug Withdrawl' ??? I have been off since 10/8/08; and my last dose of suboxone was on 10/22/08 2mg, sublingual, before I left later that day; I gave bloood & uring; went to Hospital on way to my doctor's appt., asked to pull up my blood/urine labs.And all they conducted was a CBC (basically a normal blood panel) No Urine Analyis; So, we could find out if there was any residual Subxne in my system; and if not; Answer me this, the 6 $$million Question: How can a person go thru this protocol, be opiate free for 3 weeks, and go thru sever W/Ds 2ds> my lst dose??

Last edited by mod-anon; 12-31-2008 at 12:32 AM. Reason: removed profession

 
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