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ANGELINMICHIGAN 01-29-2009 05:47 AM

No more withdrawl from suboxone but no help with my chronic pain
Hi everyone

I am sure you are familiar with my story, if not go under suboxone withdrawls, chronic pain or fibromyaliga. Today I am very proud of myself as it has been 31 days off of suboxone. It was a very difficult process and I came through it very bravely except for the fact that I still cannot sleep at all and no matter what I try my system will not let me fall asleep. As you know if you don't get any sleep your body will not heal properly.
I have Chronic Pain in my neck and shoulders and a headache that is there constantly. I had failed neck surgery in 2003 and have pins and plates in my neck and a fusion that didn't fuse or the neurosurgeon said that the second cadaveur bone had disintegrated. The fusion surgery did not take my pain away. I am so proud of myself that I have got the opiates out of my system that my family doc gave me for pain I sit in so much pain that I can't stand it. I should have been controlled by some other doctor as my family doc gave me anything for the pain and kept on adding and upping doses.
I will never touch pain medication again and even my Pain management doc. that I have now is so happy that I stopped taking them but has very little answers as what he can do for me. He did give me injections that day putting in medication under my skin along my shoulders and ocipital area. It lasted 1 week and I don't see him for another 3weeks at least.

I have been the pain clinic route before having several different injections, cortizone, steroids, botox, occipital nerve blocks, etc. and the burning of the nerves with the doctor guiding the needle in with a radio frequency. It helped me for about 6 months so now that is the route I am taking again. He will do test shots first and then burn the nerves on one side and then will come back in 2 to 3 weeks and he will burn (or kill) the nerves on the other side. I know now that I will have no relief for months still and that isn't very much fun to look forward to. I have an appt. with a new neurologist that the PM is sending me to so she can help him control my pain, but with what????? The only thing I take now is 60mg of Cymbalta and Neurontin. Of course I am depressed and anxious, when you are in pain 24/7 you are depressed and anxious!!!!

I am very frustrated and would never take a pain pill again. I have inflammation patches for my neck and shoulders and my husband massages my pain points every 12 hours and puts on new patches. I don't know what I would do without his support. Sorry I am venting and had to get that off of my chest. I am sure there are lots of stories that sound the same as my. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what helped them?? Thanks in advance.

I hope everyone is doing well. Take care eveyone.

Lyn in Michigan :angel:

TaCot 01-29-2009 07:27 AM

Re: No more withdrawl from suboxone but no help with my chronic pain

I have been in a few bad car accidents and all of the were someone hitting me from behind. I have suffered with neck pain for 25 years. It starts on the right side of my neck and goes up to my occipital bone and even up to the top of my head. There are times when the base of my skull feels swollen too. It is so hard to explain the pain, I think you may know what this feels like!! I have to sleep on a certain pillow or I will wake up so stiff that I can't turn my head. I just bought a new pillow, a Temper-pedic (know I spelled that wrong). I spent $158.00 on this pillow and it is wonderful. I also have to try not to feel stressed out because that makes the pain worse.

I think because you haven't slept in sooo long, your neck pain is agitated by this, don't you? I feel so terrible for you and wish there was something I could do for you. Has anyone ever suggested to you taking Amitriptyline at night? That will make you go to sleep and relax your muscles so that you can get relaxing rest. I was diagnosed with Fibro about 20 years ago, and have suffered with neck pain every since. It took me years to find the right combination of things to help me sleep and relax. Every time I feel stressed out, the first place I feel it is in my neck. Usually, when I have bad flare-ups, I can figure I am about to get a cold or am coming down with something. I swear, I feel everything in my neck. My neck even grinds sometimes when I turn my head. Sounds weird, but that is the only way to describe it.

Hopefully, this new doctor can do something for you. Since you are not gettng sleep, you neck pain is probably worse!!! I hope and pray that someone can help you.

Congrats on your 31 days!!! That is a HUGE accomplishment. TaCot

ANGELINMICHIGAN 01-29-2009 09:06 AM

Re: No more withdrawl from suboxone but no help with my chronic pain
Tacot, thanks for answering my post. It sounds like you have or are going through the same things as I am. It is certainly not fun. I too have spent half a fortune on different pillows, mattresses anything to help me get comfortable. I have a different kind of pillow that helps me in every different room in the house. I have not tried a temperpedic yet but I like the "memory foam" pillows that are like a normal pillow not a box style with a dip or spot in it for your neck. You can't scrunch that kind of, it is kind of weird. I also have a few "sawakaba" pillows which are buckwheat husks or hulls and you can scrunch that up under your neck and get comfy. I also besides Fibro. have "myofascial" pain and there is not much to get relief from that either and TMJ which is all very closely related. Hopefully I will get some help with the nerve burning and my new neurosurgeon. Thanks for caring, I am proud of you for doing so well either. But, what do you use to take your pain away?

Take care


TaCot 01-29-2009 09:35 AM

Re: No more withdrawl from suboxone but no help with my chronic pain
I take Motrin or Tylenol. It takes the edge off so it is managable. I put heat on my neck a lot and I use this stuff called BioFreeze. As long as I stretch my neck daily and do breathing exercises to relax, I can usually hold the really bad pain off. If I don't get a good night's sleep, I am screwed!! I think the combination of Trazadone and Amitriptyline that I take at night enables me to get the rest I need. I am on 25 mg. of Amitriptyline and 50 mg. of Trazadone. If I wasn't on both of these meds, I would never get to sleep. I have been on these meds for probably 15 years, and it works for me.

I think your neck issues are worse than mine. I really hope someone can help you though. There is nothing worse than being in pain all of the time. It sucks to have the feeling that your head weighs 30 pounds and your neck is trying to hold it up, right?

Let us know how the doc appt goes. Take care, TaCot

10sox 01-29-2009 10:39 AM

Re: No more withdrawl from suboxone but no help with my chronic pain
I have followed your story and know how hard it was to get off all of your narcotic pain killers. I wish I could tell you something that you could do to relieve your pain, but unfortunately I cannot.

I know this board is not to debate why or why not to take pain pills. And I am in no way telling you what you should do. That is something that only you and your doctor can determine for you. But it seems like you have LOTS of legitimate pain. I can only tell you what I have experienced. I am 35, have 2 very young children at home, and live in chronic pain every single day of my life. I have permanent nerve damage that isn't going to heal. I have seen more doctors than I can even count. The only way I can function is to take pain pills. Without them, I am in bed crying in pain. Let me tell you this also....I used to HATE them. I would cry when I opened the bottle and curse at them. But I knew I needed them...for my children. I have since started going to a psycologist who deals specifically with chronic pain. He has been a life saver to me. He has shown me that I am not an "addict". He also showed me how to embrace my pills rather than hate them.

I just hate to see you suffer so much. I know you are scared of taking the pills and you went through so much to get off of them. I am scared if I ever need to do the same. But in the same breath, I would do anything to go through withdrawals right now if it meant my pain would be gone when the withdrawals stopped.

Again, I am just sharing my story with you and have no idea if you have a history of addictive behavior. But there are studies out there that prove how much damage chronic pain does to a body when left untreated.

I hope you will find a way to control your pain and you will have some peace.


mk7657 01-29-2009 12:47 PM

Re: No more withdrawl from suboxone but no help with my chronic pain

I am so sorry for your pain. It seems that it will be very difficult if not impossible to find a way out of chronic pain without some kind of narcotic? What do you think?

Have you ever thought that you might be addicted to "Not taking Narcotics?" We learn in recovery that our addiction will manifest itself in many ways, not just consuming pills. It seems to me that your desire to be a recovering addict is stronger than your desire to be free of pain? I have seen pain make some very good people difficult to be around. For example, my mother in law did not have the luxury of narcotics when she was dying of cancer. Her son would not allow her to take anything for her pain. It was very hard to be with her in her last days because the pain made it so difficult...

Additionally, there are quality of life issues that you might want to talk to your doctor about. In the end, however, I am sure that you will make the right choice for you. Aren't you glad you don't have a nasty relative telling you that you can't have pain medicine no matter what the consequences?

This is only an observation to help you see your addiction from another perspective. If it works, great. It not, throw it out.

I admire your strength and courage to stay clean. Good luck in your recovery and in meeting your NEEDS for pain relief.


ANGELINMICHIGAN 01-30-2009 06:30 AM

Re: No more withdrawl from suboxone but no help with my chronic pain
10sox and MK

Thank you for your posts. I feel very very confused about both posts and and am very mixed up right now. My thoughts are constantly on my pain as that is all I feel right now. I used to be able to get my mind off of it and go ahead and do my housework, make dinner. I always loved to shop and haven't been out of the house in at least a month (maybe a few times and came back home as I couldn't take the pain being out). What is wrong with me that I can't get it out of my mind (which is very very strong after what I have been through in my withdrawl program and all of my chronic pain). My family pats me on the back constantly and friends also tell me "constantly" that I am so brave and that they are so proud of me!!!!!

I have been judged by my family for years every time I put a "pain killer" in my mouth (not my immediate family even though at times I don't think they understood completely) but they tried to understand. I am talking about my husband and 27 year old son and 36 year old daughter. They know more than anyone how much pain I am in but didn't want me to get addicted either and I felt like they were always questioning me but also supporting me at the same time. My husband came with me to the GP's office when he wanted to put me on oxycontin or oxycodone as the doc wrote me a script because the "vicodin" wasn't strong enough and I needed something for afternoon breakthrough pain. My husband said "no" but then came to the doc's office with me and he talked my husband into it by saying that I needed it to control my pain for a good quality of life so I got it filled. I wasn't on it that long and then he added Xanax which they took me off of also. Now I am only on "Neurontin" and "Cymbalta"!!!!

My family and my husband's family however I don't think ever understood or understand now "my pain". Sorry my Mother in law was always the worst critic judging and talking about me (unfortunately) behind my back to the rest of the family who always made rude comments either back to her and of course they got back to me or would just say them in front of me. My mother in law and I are close and she loves me but that doesn't stop her from unfortunately "insulting" me constantly.
First of all my family and my husbands family all live in Canada, outside of Toronto and it is well known that they don't give out pain pills so freely in Canada so that was definitely something to run me down about. We moved to Michigan almost 17 years ago and nobody liked that so it seems like any chance to run down the U.S. doctor's care they will.
I am so sorry I could go on and on. My family never really said much but have of course been worried about me over the years. When I got diagnosed with "Fibromyalgia" my MIL was the first one to say that there is no such thing of course!!!! She has chronic pain also (knee replacement, hip replacement, arthritis, etc. and insomnia) but...they just tell them to take Tylenol in Canada and it still doesn't touch her pain. If she was given pain pills by the doc. over there and she had to take them, she probably would. I guess I have a big mouth and shouldn't have told anyone but.... I never thought I was doing anything wrong as I am in pain but the comments that have gone back and forth over the years I couldn't take anymore.

Now my family and my husbands family are very very happy. Yay Lyn has gone through withdrawl and she is off the pain killers and at Christmas everyone thought I looked great, I had lost 25lbs. because of the "hell" I had been through in the withdrawl clinic and afterwards but at Christmas I was also on the last few crumbs of my "suboxone". 2 days before New Years while I was back home in Michigan I went off my suboxone and have gone through hell for the last 32 days .....about 20 days in horrible withdrawl and flu like symptoms, restless legs, insomnia, shaking, moody, irritable, anxious and nobody saw that or knows or understands how I feel in fact nobody has hardly even talked to me from Canada.

Now they can all leave me alone because they got their wish, I am off of drugs!!!!!!! There is no stigmatism attached to me anymore so they can leave me alone and move on to talk about someone else.

Here I sit alone and in "Chronic Pain" and living my own hell with Myofascial Pain, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Epstein Barr Virus, CMV Virus, TMJ, Fibromyalgia and very very tired from Insomnia and have to process this all!!!! My doctor gave me some Lorezepam a few weeks ago to settle me down and I am asked by my family every day if I have taken one because the doc said it was a controlled script. He gave me 60 and I have taken in the last 3 weeks about 15 of them, even to try and fall asleep. I won't take them because I am afraid of them. I go to a new neurologist next Tues. and then to the pain clinic next Friday to get test shots to burn the nerves in my neck which I have had done before. They lasted for about 6 months and then they grow back again. I guess I will have to get that done for the rest of my life, who knows??????

Thanks for your concern and take care all. I am so sorry that this post is so long.

Lyn :angel:

10sox 01-30-2009 08:53 AM

Re: No more withdrawl from suboxone but no help with my chronic pain

The reason I have decided to stop telling people about my prescription pain pills is for the very reason you stated in your post. Most people do not understand chronic pain, and they do not understand that people can take pain pills for legitimate pain and not become an "addict".

Again, I want to stress how invaluable a good pain pscycologist has been. Even with his guidance, there are still times when I wonder in my head if I am starting to become "addicted" because I start to feel withdrawal effects if I wait too long between my doses.

If you said you started to abuse your drugs....meaning, taking more than prescribed or taking them in any way other than how your dr. prescribed them, then I would tell you that you may in fact started to abuse your drugs. But you also have chronic pain, and I am not sure what one would do in that situation. But, it sounds like you stopped taking your pain pills because of your family. This to me does not sound like an "addict". It sounds like someone who is very confused and letting someone else's opinions control them.

People have such a negative opinion when it comes to pain killers. I cannot even tell you how many of my friends have given me that .."oh, be careful, I knew so and so who got addicted to pain pills and it ruined their life". Well, that is probably true, but that is not the case for many more of us true chronic pain patients. In fact, you would be surprised to know the number of people who are out their living their live on pain killers. It's just that we get such a bad rap that it's not something we choose to disclose anymore.

As you know from this board, there are many people who do abuse pain pills. It's part of their addictive nature. My own father was an alcoholic, so I am familiar with an addicts behavior. And, this is why myself, I was so against my pain pills and fought them for so long .But my psycolgist and doctors helped me to see that I did not inherit that addictive gene. I have never had any addictive personality traits. He has also shown me how many people who think they were addicted, were actually just phsysically dependant on them and could not stop taking them without getting sick. So, the continued to take them, so they would not get sick.

I am rambling on here, but just feel so bad that you are in so much pain. If you really believe you have an addictive personality and you were abusing your pain meds, then you probably need have a long talk with your doctor and have him help you. I am sure there must be some ways an addict can take some pain pills when there is legitimate pain? Meaning...pain that is not going away. No one can be expected to live in pain for the rest of their life. If however, you were not developing an addictive behavior and only stopped taking them because of the influence of your family, then I think you need to have a long talk with your doctor about this. NOBODY and I mean NOBODY needs to know anything what medicines you are taking. Of course your husband will probably need to know, but I think he does have your best interest at heart and thinks he is protecting you. I think once he understands what a true addict is and the differences between controlling chronic pain, he wil back you up.

There is no way my husband could stand by and watch me be in so much pain every day. He knows how scared I am of the whole addiction thing and he is learning all about it with me.

Again, sorry to ramble on. I hope you find some peace soon!


Secrets1983 01-30-2009 08:54 AM

Re: No more withdrawl from suboxone but no help with my chronic pain
Hey Lyn,

Man.... That is a lot to deal with. I just want you to know that no matter what people have said about you.... I think you are a great woman and have a lot on your plate and have gone thru hell and back... so.... if anyone says anything to put you down... or to judge you it's only because there is NO WAY for them to completely understand your circumstances and it's just cruel to judge a loved one like that. There is a large stigma about pain pills and I too remember feeling like people were looking sideways at me (my close family knew I took them for my gallbladder issue) anyways.. My mom was always supportive beyond belief and then only here or there would say.. "Now be careful with those because they are addictive and I don't want to have to see you go thru that.." Then I would of course would tell her that I am completely not worried about that happening because I really hate taking the pills and can't wait until I could stop taking them.... UGH.. Anyways.. you all know how that goes... Of course I was severely addicted and lied to her which I still have such guilt for... That is why I just feel like I can't tell her about my addiction because I fear it breaking her heart. ANYWAYS>>>>> Back to you..... I can't imagine the turmoil you really must be in because you have to deal with the CONSTANT pain.... The CONSTANT reminder that you shouldn't take anything narcotic to help with it... I don't know where the line gets drawn that says an addict who is in a lot of pain shouldn't take the meds or if it's okay because everyone should have quality of life... You really are in a tough spot and I am very sorry for that. I can't imagine what it's like to deal with those hardships everyday without a break. Many prayers have been said for you and I will continue to pray that you get relief from something!

I had a feeling those two prior posts would get you a little shaken up. They were meant with nothing but respect.. that i believe but I can imagine it also added some confusion to your brain because here you have fought so hard to beat this addiction and then they make a very valid point that if your qaulity of life is horrible than maybe you should be on pain meds.... Of course... that would make you really think because quality of life is so important.. I don't know.. Bottom line... I just wanted you to know that I am thinking of you and really do care! I am here for you anytime! Sometimes we just need to get all our frusterations out and this board is the perfect place to do it!

Hang in there friend!

ANGELINMICHIGAN 01-30-2009 09:34 AM

Re: No more withdrawl from suboxone but no help with my chronic pain
10Sox and Secrets

Thank you for your kind and soothing words. Yes I am very confused. I can't think straight about any of it, I just am looking forward to my Neurologist's appt. and to going to the Pain Clinic next Friday. Hopefully they can find something wrong that they can help me with. This all started out 9 years ago with bad neck pain. The first thing the neurologist I was seeing then started treating me for a bad carrotted (sp) artery. I have gone down hill from there being diagnosed with everything and being helped with nothing!!!!!
I know the burning of the nerves is going to help a bit because I have had it done before but it certainly didn't take all of my pain away. I am trying to be positive but with the lack of sleep and the pain I am in it is difficult. It is also very difficult to try and hide the pain from your family and I don't think I should have to. The last time (at Christmas) I was at my mother in laws house and she actually said to me (what is wrong with your neck, it was OK the last time I saw you)!!!!! I cannot sit on the couch or a chair, I have to lay down to watch tv almost even to survive, I have been wearing my neck brace to sit at the computer and type. I am trying everything. I was kind of laying down when I was talking to her and could hardly get up. When she said, your neck was OK last time I saw you and yes this time also, I was still on the "suboxone" and it wasn't hurting me as bad as it is now. She says "Can't you take something for the pain". I was sooooo upset at that comment, like she forgot what I was going through already and how much pain I have had for the last 9 years.
To clear up things, no....I do not have an addictive personally one single bit....that I am 100% sure of......I took the pills because the doctor gave me prescriptions for them and that is all.....yes it did mask the pain and I didn't realize how much until I got off of everything. I don't want to go back on them, yes I do worry what people think of me but they are not feeling my pain. I decided to stop taking the narcotics when my system went into "withdrawl" for 6 months. The doc was prescribing re-quip for restless legs and I was going crazy until I realized one day that it was withdrawl and I could have stopped it if I upped my dosage. My doctor would have let me in a heartbeat but I didn't want to take more. I went to the office to talk to my doc. and he had been in a car accident. He never came out of the coma he was in, in the hospital for 2 weeks and died in there.
The new doc. put my system in "rock bottom" condition by trying to help me wean off my pills at home. She told me to switch my afternoon vicodin for breakthrough pain to an 8 hour tylenol. My system was already in a withdrawl from the drugs giving me restless legs. The 8hr tylenol put my body in so much stress it was hell and that is when my doctor's office sent me to the "addictionolgist" to check me into the "withdrawl clinic".
I am just trying to clear up my story. There is so much more that I have been through but it is on the other boards. I am sorry my posts are so long and thank you everyone for your thoughts.
Thanks again Lyn

TaCot 01-30-2009 10:08 AM

Re: No more withdrawl from suboxone but no help with my chronic pain

My heart just breaks for you, girl! Your mother-in-law is cruel. You certainly don't need that right now. I am at a loss as to what to say, but I do want you to know that I, too, care for you and about you. It may be, Lyn, that you need to take some kind of medication for your pain. THere are non-narcotic pain meds out there too. Maybe, something like that would work. I am just thinking out loud. I just feel so terrible for you.

You sound really down and I know I speak for everyone when I tell you that if I could give you a big hug right now, I would. Bless your heart, you shouldn't have to go through all of this at once. I hope that your doc appt will give you some good results.

You know what, it doesn't matter what your mother-in-law or anyone else thinks of you. You are a great lady and don't deserve to be treated the way you have.

Group hug for Lyn!!!! Take care and I hope you have a good weekend. XXOOXO TaCot

mk7657 01-30-2009 10:13 AM

Re: No more withdrawl from suboxone but no help with my chronic pain

Your last post tells me a lot about the situation you're in and the chronic pain. I think a lot of confusion about whether you are or are not an addict comes from the stigmatizm of narcotics and people who don't understand (but love you just the same). Are people telling you that you're an addict? There also seems to be a lot of family drama around addictive medicines and what is best for Lyn. The majority of your family like seeing you off of narcotics. Maybe they can see little changes in your personality when you're taking them, who knows. Even suboxone has a drousy like side effect.

If I was in your situation, it would be hard for me to step out of all that family drama and figure out what is best for me???

Problem solving includes breaking the big problem down into smaller pieces and dealing with one piece at a time. Here are some smaller pieces to think about.

1. I am in chronic pain.
2. My family can't feel my pain. They don't understand.
3. I am not really sure if I'm an addict.
4. Who are the people that have my best interests in mind?
5. I do not like taking narcotics.
6. Was I sent to an addictionologist because my ??? thinks I am an addict?

Good luck lyn. My thoughts and prayers are with you as you sort all of this out.


ANGELINMICHIGAN 01-30-2009 11:29 AM

Re: No more withdrawl from suboxone but no help with my chronic pain
Hi everyone

You guys are so sweet to care about me the way you do. I felt your group hug. I am trying to prepare to be more positive as the weekend approaches. My husband is a wonderful man that thinks the world of me and he is the one that has been taking care of me for the last month or so. I couldn't do it without him.

I am definitely not a drug addict. I would love to find an over the counter medication that would touch my pain. I have tried Tylenol, 8hr tylenol, tylenol PM, Aleve and Motrin and none of them touch my pain. That is what I am hoping for that the neurologist will give me something to settle down my nerves or muscles so they are not inflammed anymore. The inflammation patches help but not much!!!! I have been wearing those this whole week and change them every 12 hrs. and try a different over the counter medication every day and nothing works. My nerves are definitely getting the best of me. My husband wants to know if my pain is making my nerves and anxiety worse or are my nerves and anxiety making my pain worse!!!! What comes first!!!!!

I am the one that checked my self into the withdrawl clinic with the help of the addictionologist because I knew I was in withdrawl because the doc. was not giving me enough opiates and I didn't want any more or would never take any more than prescribed ever. I would wait until exactly the time that I was supposed to take my pills never an extra and never sooner!!!! I did have all the comments from some family members in my mind of course. That isn't why I quit I just didn't want them but their comments didn't help me at all. I knew when I was off them that I would have to start over again with neck pain!!!! I didn't know it was going to be so bad. I know I am not sleeping at all so that is probably not helping my pain. Also someone on another board or maybe even one of you said that after having injections into their neck or shoulders that it put them in bed for a week after. I had it done only a few weeks ago and it only last about 1 week and the pain has been worse ever since. That is not the burning of the nerves but the Pain Doc put some kind of pain medication in my shoulders and it did numb the area . That is probably what is going on (I hope).

I am sorry that my posts are so long.
Thanks so much everyone for your kindness and support.
Take care and have a wonderful (hopefully painfree weekend).
I will keep you posted on my visit to the new neurologist on Tuesday.


mel486 01-30-2009 09:49 PM

Re: No more withdrawl from suboxone but no help with my chronic pain
There is a difference between an addict and a person dependent on pain medications, as someone pointed out in this group to me. An addict abuses the drug for pleasure, someone how uses pain meds for chronic pain is [U]dependent[/U] on it. A diabetic is not addicted to insulin, they are dependent on it.

As many of you already know in the nine days I have been on this forum, is I love to write. It's part of my therapy. One evening in my daily "Write something everyday" drill, I wrote a few paragraphs called, "I am an addict!" After reading so much in this group, I had to throw that piece away because nobody want to read about, "I am a drug dependent person." It was such a good article too. :-)

Pain is pain - whether you feel it or not. The injury is there and the pain meds cover it up. Your internal body still knows the pain is there and that can cause you to be anxious. Were you calm and collected before taking the pain meds? I know I wasn't!! I was hell to deal with and the slightest thing would set me off. My wife, being a nurse, knew it was the pain and not me being anxious and aggressive. I still feel agitated from time-to-time, but now I recognize it and usually go off into my cave (office) and surf the Internet. Now, I read this forum.

It's hard to understand all of the dynamics that people and their families go through when a person is addicted or dependent on a drug and their level of acceptance. My whole extended family and many of my friend know what I am going through and I lean on them on occasion. I am not ashamed of my dependency. It was necessary to reduce my pain. It's a difficult situation when someone doesn't understand it. If they have never been there, they will never understand.

Good luck to you and keep us informed.

ANGELINMICHIGAN 01-31-2009 06:50 AM

Re: No more withdrawl from suboxone but no help with my chronic pain
Hi Denon

I appreciate your post.

Take care and good luck


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