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david45249 09-14-2008 07:53 AM

cortisol saliva results
 
I am hypothyroid and I read a lot of people have adrenal issues with their thyroid problems. My doctor won't treat my adrenal glands based on the results below but I would appreciate a second opinion from you all. The lab is a 24 hour saliva test.

7:00 am Cortisol 0.10 mcg/dL (0.04-0.56 is normal)
12:00 pm Cortisol 0.14 mcg/dL (0.04-0.56 is normal)
5:00 pm Cortisol 0.15 mcg/dL (<0.15 is normal)
10:00 pm Cortisol 0.07 mcg/dL (<0.09 is normal)

I can't fall asleep until 1:00 or 2:00 am usually and I don't normally wake up until 10:30 or 11:00 am. Bright lights irritate me too. I know the values are within the normal range but are they considered very low in the morning? Has anyone been treated with similar values and felt better? Any feedback? Thank you very much for helping.

David

chris14 09-15-2008 10:29 AM

Re: cortisol saliva results
 
As a Registered Nurse and a person who suffers from Addisons. It looks to be in normal range man.

slanabhaile75 09-20-2008 08:50 AM

Re: cortisol saliva results
 
[QUOTE=david45249;3727843]I am hypothyroid and I read a lot of people have adrenal issues with their thyroid problems. My doctor won't treat my adrenal glands based on the results below but I would appreciate a second opinion from you all. The lab is a 24 hour saliva test.

7:00 am Cortisol 0.10 mcg/dL (0.04-0.56 is normal)
12:00 pm Cortisol 0.14 mcg/dL (0.04-0.56 is normal)
5:00 pm Cortisol 0.15 mcg/dL (<0.15 is normal)
10:00 pm Cortisol 0.07 mcg/dL (<0.09 is normal)

I can't fall asleep until 1:00 or 2:00 am usually and I don't normally wake up until 10:30 or 11:00 am. Bright lights irritate me too. I know the values are within the normal range but are they considered very low in the morning? Has anyone been treated with similar values and felt better? Any feedback? Thank you very much for helping.

David[/QUOTE]

slanabhaile75 09-20-2008 08:58 AM

Re: cortisol saliva results
 
Hi there, feeling uable to get up in the morning is an indication that the adrenal glands are under functioning. How is your BP?. People get obsessed with lab tests rather than listenig to the patients symptoms. Also if your thyriod is not quite balanced if can make you very tired. You need to book a phone consult with DR Gina Honeyman in Colarado she is inspirational in this field. She will also ask you how you are feeling! and puts as much emphysis on that as the lab results. Her tel no is 303 4139100

orion 09-20-2008 10:07 AM

Re: cortisol saliva results
 
[QUOTE=david45249;3727843]
7:00 am Cortisol 0.10 mcg/dL (0.04-0.56 is normal)
12:00 pm Cortisol 0.14 mcg/dL (0.04-0.56 is normal)
5:00 pm Cortisol 0.15 mcg/dL (<0.15 is normal)
10:00 pm Cortisol 0.07 mcg/dL (<0.09 is normal)
[/QUOTE]

You can't diagnose adrenal insufficiency with simple blood tests, you need some kind of stimulation test to determine your maximum cortisol output. I suggest you ask for a visit with an endocrinologist. If he refuses then I would ask for the refusal in writing and then find another doctor; turns out not all doctors were created equal.

It is suspicous that your morning cortisol is lower than noon and 5pm. One day's readings don't mean much, but based on that result further investigation is needed.

The ranges you give differ from many I have seen:

7-9am 0.27-2.06 mcg/dL
11-1pm 0.03 - 0.77
3-5pm 0.03 - 0.56
10-12am 0.03 - 0.50

I don't see how the normal range would be the same for 7am and noon. It is well known that cortisol should rise dramatically within 2 hours of waking. Given these other ranges and the fact you have symptoms, you are deficient, at least on that morning. I would use a different lab for the next tests.

Other symptoms: morning backache that goes away as the day progresses, unrefreshing sleep, salt craving, low exercise capacity and blood pressure that drops when you stand up. Do you have any of these?

Normally low cortisol makes it very easy to get to sleep, and to sleep a long time. When you wake up you are unrefreshed and feel a few more hours would do the trick, but it doesn't. Consequently your inability to sleep at night runs contrary to low cortisol; of course you may easily have other problem that are related to low cortisol.

I would get blood tests for thyroid, prolactin, LH, FSH, DHEAS. DHEAS is normally very low if you have low cortisol. The other tests help determine the cause of the low cortisol.

david45249 09-22-2008 02:43 PM

Re: cortisol saliva results
 
Thanks Orion. I have very unrefreshed sleep, low exercise capacity and sugar cravings. I don't know what my blood pressure does when I stand up though. I don't get light headed. I notice I start to black out on some roller coasters when there are a lot of G forces.

I started taking 12 mg of DEHA and I'm getting up earlier and feeling sleepy at night. I just don't know how much to take. Maybe 20 mg would be better, maybe 12 mg is too much.

nymi06 10-20-2008 08:57 AM

Re: cortisol saliva results
 
Your test results certainly sound like low cortisol to me.
I have Hashimoto's Disease (Hypothyroid) Also Type 2 Diabetes, RA (i have an RA factor of 110, no antibodies although i may have them by now), and anemia (low B12).
For years (at least 4) i've had symptoms of Adrenal Fatugue/insufficiency (easily startled, unable to handle stress, dr had to prescribe valium for it, sluggish pupils, etc) I had a blood test for low cortisol (last year) and it was 7.0 (not taken in the morning but fasting) I recently had a 24 hr saliva cortisol, here are the results:


Reference Ranges (Quest Labs):

8-10am: 0.04-0.56
4-6pm: <or= 0.15
10-11pm: <0r=0.09


6am: 0.06
11am: 0.17
5pm: 0.07
11pm: 0.07

I'm taking hydrocortisone 20 mg but i'm starting slowly until i reach 20 mg by 11/3.

david45249 10-20-2008 11:54 AM

Re: cortisol saliva results
 
It looks like you and I have similar results compared to our normal ranges. I've been taking DHEA and Pregnenolone though since my doctor won't prescribe Cortisol. It looks like it caused my T3 to drop so I increased my Armour. It only helps a little to get me out of bed in the morning though. I can't wake up. Can you wake up in the morning? Does the cortisol medicine help you to wake up?

nymi06 10-20-2008 09:33 PM

Re: cortisol saliva results
 
I just started the Hydrocortisone Saturday so it's a little too soon to tell. Yes i have trouble getting motoring in the morning, then i drag all day/evening at work, then i seem to be awake & refreshed at the end of the evening (most of the time)

david45249 10-21-2008 08:29 AM

Re: cortisol saliva results
 
That's exactly how I feel. Wake up late, drag all day at work and then feel pretty good at night. I've been taking DHEA and Pregnenolone to support my adrenals but they don't seem to be doing anything. Will you please post here how the Cortisol works for you when you give it enough time? Thanks.

mkgb 10-21-2008 08:43 AM

Re: cortisol saliva results
 
Cortisol was like instant sugar in my veins. I was tired and fatigued all day with out it. I dragged about and would be forced to nap in the afternoons with my son. I also would pass out early in the evenings. I had NO energy before taking cortisol. My DHEA levels were high due to PCOS. My cortisol was in the pits. I tried the DHEA route and would have tried the pregnenolone, but my IM noted that all my pregnenolone was being filtered into DHEA, estrogen, and testosterone. As a result supplementing pregnenolone did not help me.. only cortisol did.

As to how cortisol can affect ones T3 levels. Well the addition of pregnenolone, cortisol or aldosterone suppress T4 to T3 conversion. If you are seeing a depression of your T3 levels you should be seeing a corresponding rise in T4 levels. If you are not noting this, something else is up.

I hope that you get relief soon. I know how bad it is to live with untreated adrenal and insulin issues. Needless to say I was a brain dead, semi-comatose zombie.

MG

mkgb 10-21-2008 08:58 AM

Re: cortisol saliva results
 
[B]I am hypothyroid and I read a lot of people have adrenal issues with their thyroid problems. My doctor won't treat my adrenal glands based on the results below but I would appreciate a second opinion from you all. The lab is a 24 hour saliva test.
[/B]
Optimal range for most is in the 40-60% region of normal.

When are you taking your pregnenolone and DHEA? How much are you taking at time X? It can make a difference.

[B]7:00 am Cortisol 0.10 mcg/dL (0.04-0.56 is normal) [/B] You are at 11% or the normal range here.
[B]12:00 pm Cortisol 0.14 mcg/dL (0.04-0.56 is normal)[/B] You are boosted to 19 % of normal here.
[B]5:00 pm Cortisol 0.15 mcg/dL (<0.15 is normal)[/B] You are at 100% of normal range. This is what is interfering with your sleep pattern you are spiking at an odd time during the day.
[B]
10:00 pm Cortisol 0.07 mcg/dL (<0.09 is normal)[/B] You are at 77% of normal here. Still high optimal in range. Pregnenolone has a longer delay to get into your system. When taking it you have to account for the fact that you have to absorb it and then you adrenals have to take it and convert it into aldosterone and cortisol.

In theory your highest level should be first thing in the morning around 8 am. This is not the case with you. You climb to your highest point after waking. Depending on when you take your meds and the inherent delay time in conversion. It may be better for you to take your pregnenolone at bed time and then your body will be able to convert it to cortisol while you sleep. This is just theory. It would help to know when you take X and how much.

Orion makes a good point about the ACTH stimulation test with hormone evaluation. It is the only true way to determine if you have bult adrenal hypofunction or a genetic flaw in your conversion process. There are MANY steriods and hormones produced by the adrenals. The chemical reactions are in a state of flux and equilibrium. It is hard to know for sure what is going on when and how supplementation will affect things. In your case you are low on cortisol in the mornings. I think you would benefit for 10 mcgs of cortisol first thing in the morning. I do not know if your MD will look into it further for you though. BEFORE you can be effectively tested for adrenal issues you would have to be off DHEA and pregnenolone for AT LEAST 4-6 weeks. It takes that long to leave the adrenals to their own devices so an accurate functionality can be tested. I wish I could be of more help.

MG

nymi06 10-21-2008 11:26 AM

Re: cortisol saliva results
 
When given enough time you will feel noticeably better, if you start off on a schedule of dosing slowly 2 to (eventually) 4 times a day you will see and feel a difference.
I knew as evidenced by my symptoms and not able to tolerate normal doses of Armour ( of which i am slowly dosing back on) that i had AF/AI and should have just stayed on Hydrocortisone.
Another example of live n learn.

scott1350 01-10-2009 12:50 PM

Re: cortisol saliva results
 
I am deperate as I have been on cortef for two weeks and have not had any relief in symptoms of adrenal fatigue. How much hydro are you on.

Scott

scott1350 01-10-2009 12:52 PM

Re: cortisol saliva results
 
David:

Have you found an answer to fixing youre symptoms of adrenal fatigue. I drag through the day and seem to get better at night.

Scott


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