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scout316 10-16-2008 04:31 PM

B12 vitamin is important to central nervous system
:angel:Hi Emmaspaws!..That is great news that they're going to check your mom's B12 level:).So glad you're reading up on it too!When I read how they're giving B12 to senior citizens in nursing homes it just seemed logical for your mom to be getting B12 too!Oh I do hope they find her level to be low...that way you'd at least know something was physically wrong and that a lot if not all of the damage can be reversed.Let's Hope!Oh RainbowsEnd will be delighted too to hear this news.Good work Linda!!!!

Oh mygosh...I was thinking too how anti-convulsants And anti-biotics also lower B12 levels.....your poor mom....those drugs probably lowered her B12 levels...

Hey Linda when I was just "borderline deficient I was a mess.I was shaking and cold 24/7.....I felt like I didn't know who I was a living nightmare!That's why RainbowsEnd and I really are adamant about people who have lowB12 symptoms getting it checked out...and checked out the correct way.If your mom's levels are under 400...she needs B12 shots(the normal range in US labs is usually 200-1100)mine was 222 when I had a flood of neurological symptoms....basically I was afraid of my own shadow....seriously!Hopefully if her level is under 400 the drs. will do the other tests that go along with it.;)

Hope you have a good evening....I'll be thinking about your mom and hoping something will show up in her test.

Have a good evening~Scout:angel:

robinegg 10-17-2008 04:22 AM

Re: B12 vitamin is important to central nervous system
Dear scout
How are you going buddy?

Your grandson must be a real treasure to you he hsa a lovely grandma:angel:
And that yeletubbie collection LOL
Have you seen the night garden My darling daughter who is 11 seen this one day when home from school sick i usually dont let the kids watch to much Tv when they are home sick but she got around me this day she ahs been it love with ever since LOL your just never to old I guess:D

Any way are you feeling well........It is sooo interesting that they give B12 in nursing homes in Europe isnt it? It should just be the norm as they know it is so common as we get older Japan is big on this too.......

I did something so crazy the other day:( Because my gluten thinghas never been formaly diagnosed although one doc said I was borderline a few years ago but because I was on again off again other tests were inconclusive......Anyway I thought maybe I really dont have any issues with it
so I ate heaps of it and guess what headaches and wait for it numbness inmy feet and hands I was thinking it had almost healed completely with the injections & because I am still having injections 3 times a week I am full of it
My thinking is that the gluten response appears not only to attack the stomach it attacks the nervous system as well I have been feeling better no more aching muscles ect so I will NOT be doing that I dont need tests to prove anything the proof is in the pudding as they say.....

Take care

Rainbows End:)

robinegg 10-17-2008 04:27 AM

Re: B12 vitamin is important to central nervous system
dear Emmaspaws

As scout said i am really happy they are going to test the B12 hopefully they will do all of them as well........I hope that is hows a deficiency to as you can treat it and hopefully she will be feeling better in no time

One day at a time I guess

I truely wish you & your mum the very best and may you be blessed with strength love atthis stressful time........And who knows maybe this will ba awake up call for your mums doc and they will test more patients

Rainbows End:)

FLFLOWERGIRL 10-17-2008 05:33 PM

Re: B12 vitamin is important to central nervous system
Scout and Rainbows End--I wanted to say thank you for your contributions to this board, not only for helping other folks, but your knowledge of B-12 and compassion. I have always told people to check B-12 and some do, but many tend to listen only to their doctor because they know more than me, of course! It helps to have positive information and reinforcements on the board.

I also have a passion for B-12 after my friend was diagnosed with iron deficiency anemia, but they didn't run a B-12 or ferritin, I sent her back and guess what she has PA. She had to change docs to get a DX and a Ferritn check which was 6.

I have both of my parents on B-12 SL due to age and use of PPI's (long term for my dad). I have been on PPI's for 9 yrs now and it has ~only~lol depleted my ferritin and iron stats not the B-12, thank goodness, I don't think I could stand that too. I supplement now with both B-12 SL and B-Complex just to be safe, however, my B-12 runs between 800-900 before supplementation. I wonder what it is now??? I think my RBC's are pretty healthy about now, it will be 2 yrs in Jan and my Ferritin is only 41. I live on iron and have no blood loss. Those darn PPI's and Hashi's to blame. Just wanted to say thanks and welcome! FLFLOWERGIRL:)

scout316 10-17-2008 06:18 PM

Re: B12 vitamin is important to central nervous system
Hello my lovely "Aussie"friend RainbowsEnd!
Yes I am so extremely happy and grateful that Linda's mom will be getting a B12 check!We did it buddy!I feel soooo let's hope that those drs. will follow thru with giving her some much needed B12.Even if she's not low on it she could benefit enormously from it.:)I hope they do the MMA if she shows to be in the so-called normal range but is still low.

I was also delighted to hear that other poster got her B12 checked and was getting a years supply of B12 shots to give herself from the pharmacist(I believe you say "chemist"in Australia!)since her insurance wouldn't pay due to her level was a wee bit over the lowest normal range figure.Nice of her doc to write her out a prescription for the shots.I don't know if I'd be brave enough to give myself the shots!HaHa!;)

Oh that show your daughter loves they don't play it here in the US,but I saw toys they sell for the show on an online store in the sweet and adorable!You guys have the best TV shows for children.We get some "fireman sam" shows here and my grandson Ben loves that one too.Actually I found a new fireman sam dvd at our Target store.

That is interesting about the gluten...I haven't noticed a reaction when I have it,but I have a problem with whole milk...I just use fat free skim or I wheeze(asthma trigger)....same thing from cheese,but I do have a bite of pizza once in a great while....sometimes it's so hard not to have the things we like to eat.....I have to stay away from quite a few foods that trigger migraines for would be so nice to be able to eat like we did when we were little tykes now,wouldn't it?:D

Well I'm off to do some things around my house now...I had a bad headache again,but it's gone now so I have to get busy,busy,busy!

I see my lovely dr. on the 23rd and I hope I get him to order me a ferritin test...I always have low ferritin even though my hemoglobin is really dr. is such a pain in the bum!:D

I hope you are feeling better after your gluten experience(but sometimes we just have to eat what we want don't we?we are toooo funny!

Hope you and your family have a really nice weekend!


emmaspaws 10-17-2008 07:08 PM

Re: B12 vitamin is important to central nervous system
Hi Scout and Rainbows End! Thanks for all of your information and caring about me and my mom. I checked my mom's test from the week on the Neurology unit last December but I'm not sure if some of these abbreviations are for b-12. Is it going to say Cbl or B-12? I don't think they checked it, though. Ugghh!!! Anyway, she was tested today, so I'm praying that it shows some indication of what's going on with this. If it's not this, I don't know what it is...nothing is helping her shaking!!! It is so sad to see her this way. It breaks my and my kids hearts!

Thanks so much!

bethsheba 10-17-2008 08:20 PM

Re: B12 vitamin is important to central nervous system
Linda, I am posting here just in case you don't catch my other post...the shaking could be an infecton due to ehrlichiosis, which is a co infection of the condition I mentioned on my other post. In addition to shaking, Ehrlichiosis can cause confusion. This condition can be treated with special anti biotics.


scout316 10-18-2008 08:27 PM

Re: B12 vitamin is important to central nervous system
Thank you for your post to me & RainbowsEnd(my lovely "Aussie pal"!).It is so nice to meet you also!:)

It's a good feeling when you know you've helped someone!:angel:

There are so many people here with undiagnosed health issues,but at least we can all contribute our knowledge of what we've been thru and maybe just maybe it will help someone.......and when it does it's Great!!!!

Thanks for sharing a bit of your story.My family and I lived in St.Pete.for over 7 years...we came back to IL in 1989.It was so lovely in FL.My mother-in-law still lives out there and she loves it...of course!Wow how time goes by so fast.I worked for awile at Eckerd's drug store back then and I remember the Tyrone Square Mall and used to ride those lovely buses with my kids a lot!It was so nice living out there and we have many fond memories from when we lived there.:)

Your B12 level was kind of good at 800-900...what was the normal range at the labs where you had it tested?I'm just wondering........the lab my dr. uses says norm is 200-1100(such a wide range,isn't that?).Mine right now was 420...which my dr. thinks is pretty good,but it Always drops back down to the 200's if I don't get the shots.:(

I wish more drs. were aware of B12 issues.My hematologist(she's now hoo hoo...she was an awesome dr.!)said a good level should always be above 400.I think the more B12 you have the it is so very important to the central nervous system.That's great that you have your parents taking it too...they say we need more B12 as we get older and I actually read that nursing homes are giving B12 to their residents to prevent B12 that!!!!:angel:

So a lot of vitamins are important for us,but B12 is a really many neurological problems can and do arise when we are just at the lower end of the normal range...I think we should advocate that the labs should change the numbers for what's a "normal range"......maybe then drs. would be able to help more people before they get symptoms and have to suffer!:)

I see my dr. on the 23rd this month...I'm gong to ask him to check my ferritin,because in the past I've always been low(my # was 11...really low if you ask me,but he said I was "in range"...haha the normal was 10-276....:(

Hope you have a lovely sunday....I sure miss the beautiful beach in St. Pete.!:cool:

Take Care~Scout

emmaspaws 10-19-2008 01:56 PM

Re: B12 vitamin is important to central nervous system
Hi Scout and FL Flowergirl! Emmaspaws here (aka...Linda). That's funny that Scout was talking about Tyrone Sq Mall...I live about 1/2 mile from there. Small world, huh? I am anxiously awaiting the results from the lab on my mom's B-12 levels. If I am looking at the report, how do I know what to look for? Also, does a high level of RBCs indicate large RBC's or just more of them. How do you know RBC's are enlarged by looking at a lab report. My mom's labs back in Dec. were not tested for B-12 but they did have her regular chemical reports and CBC results, etc. Just curious if I can find anything by looking at a history. Thanks!!

BTW, it's a beautifully breezy sunny day here in St. Pete, FL! God Bless!


scout316 10-19-2008 02:38 PM

Re: B12 vitamin is important to central nervous system
Hi Emmaspaws!!!:)Wow I can't believe you live where we used to!I think we lived on 17thAve.,N....yes it is a small world!!!!Well I'm glad you seem to be in better spirits is not easy,but we can get thru the rough spots with support & love from others!:angel:

Okay let's see...if I remember correctly the large red cells would show in the MCV(the # will be at the higher end of the normal range).Now if they had checked her "folate" that comes under folic acid and even if that's a good number you can still be B12 deficient.My old hematologist said there's so much folate in all foods now that it actually "masks" the B12...a higher level of folic acid then actually makes it look like you're okay,but when the B12 is low a lot of times the folic acid is high....confusing but true!;)

Well I'm not sure your mom's drs. ordered All the tess that go with the B12 level check.Those are MMA(methylmalonic acid level)which if elevated points to a B12 deficiency(even if B12 is in normal range,but the B12 will probably be at the lower end(under 400 if your labs are about the same as here).:)

Please make sure you find out exactly what her B12 level is(ask for a see what that lab uses as a normal range..this is very important!).If her dr. only ordered the B12 test and she's running low on it,but still in range then Demand the MMA,Homocysteine & Folic Acid tests also.;)

Drs. are a royal pain in the behind...haha,but let's give 'em a chance to see if they can get a clearer picture of what's happening to your mom.Oh I just hope & pray that it's going to be something simple that can be corrected.

I founnd in my experience that even though drs. mean well...they are wrong a Lot of the time.Just goes to show that you have to listen to what your body is telling you.For instance I had a dr. during the roughest part of my B12 deficiency and he said that he "checked everything"and couldn't find a thing wrong with me other than a low white cell count and low platelet count.So then I just went to the hematologist he sent me to a year earlier and I told her my symptoms and she knew right away it was B12!!!!My B12 was 279(normal low end) and my MMA was over 400(more than double the high number allowed!).So there you have let's just hope something shows up in your mom's tests.:angel:

Have A Beautiful Day!


emmaspaws 10-19-2008 03:01 PM

Re: B12 vitamin is important to central nervous system
Hi there! Thanks for the speedy reply. I am looking at her labs from December '07 and it says her MCV was 97.8. The ranges were 81.0-99.0 Her platelet counts were 498 on a range from 130-400. That is definitely high. I'm not sure what all of this means. I don't see anything on these labs about folate or folic acid, but I do know that they did give her folate during this hospital visit, but it doesn't indicate why. Anyway, it could be something other than b-12, I just don't know what. Maybe the next doctor to see is a hematologist. Not sure about anything right now. I just know that none of the meds are working. Thanks for your insight! Have a wonderful Sunday!

scout316 10-19-2008 03:11 PM

Re: B12 vitamin is important to central nervous system
Hi....yes her MCV was High!!!!! Now that is really looking like a deficiency is going on.Hang in there....something is Sure to show up!Are they doing a CBC too(complete blood count)again?Linda if they gave her folate that is a Huge Sign! This is really looking like a B12 problem that the drs. missed!

We will all be waiting to hear the B12 number......this is lika a big event for all of us low B12ers here!Hang in there.......


robinegg 10-19-2008 06:35 PM

Re: B12 vitamin is important to central nervous system
Hi Linda and Scout

That is great news I am waiting with baited breathe tooo..

Your mum is definetily in the upper levles with MCV which can indicate Pernacious Anemia dificiency in B12 or Folate deficiency Anemia the will both present with enlarged and odd shaped red blood cells if this comes back normal it doesnt mean she is not deficient..That is something you have to watch for with docs if you dont have any abnormal FBC's you cant be deficient in B12 ......not so....

Some people have normal levels of folate mine was low but without B12 folate is useless it need B12 to do its work perhaps levels can be high because it is floating around in the blood doing nothing without the B12 so it cant be utilzed......Which I was Scientist or something.....

So folate must be taken with B12 there are many cofactors for B12 to work well...

Good luck Linda
Special thoughts for you & your mum today.........:)

robinegg 10-19-2008 06:41 PM

Re: B12 vitamin is important to central nervous system
I forgot the high platelet count that can be very many things....
I think you said the tests were in Dec 07 raised levels can be caused by infections, inflammatory response or an autoimmune problem PA is coming to mind.....

Your mums doc should have ordered a FBC so hopefully you can see if there are any changes now you have something to compare with.........

emmaspaws 10-20-2008 08:02 AM

Re: B12 vitamin is important to central nervous system
Hi Rainbows End and Scout...well I spoke to the director of the ALF today and she gave me the B-12 level...pretty disappointing. 511. I don't have the report in front of me, but will try to get it this afternoon. With this level being so middle of the road...could it still be a deficiency?

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