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    Old 03-16-2009, 04:42 AM   #1
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    b12?

    hi everyone...
    ive been feeling ill for years now and have been visiting all sorts of doctors and specialists over the last year and still havnt found an answer.

    symptoms:
    severe digestive problems - very noisey/gurgly stomach/ bloating/ mucus in stool /always hungry /food cravings

    always exhausted... no energy, feel like im going to fall asleep (worst; in the afteroon normally) cant walk up a flight of stairs without getting out of breath. cant get up in the mornings, sleep for hours and still wake up tired

    anxiety/panic attacks and depression (caused by all of the health problems)
    easliy embarrassed, difficulty talking to people/social anxiety

    dizzyness/ my balance isnt so good/ feeling 'out of it' all the time... strange vision; like the contrast of light is turned up.

    chronic post nasal drip

    cold hands & feet... i get hot or cold very easliy, if its a little bit cold or a little bit hot. i sweat a lot and when i get a bit cold my hands and feet go white/purple like theyre draingin of blood.

    used to have very heavy painful periods, which was solved by going on the pill a couple of years ago, but for the last 6 months ive been spotting in between periods... doctor wants to do an internal exam.


    now... ive been diagnosed with 'functional bowel disorder' to explain my digestive problems... im doing a series of food eliminations and then there are several tablets i have to try to see if i can get rid of it... but i dont think its as simple of that.

    my question really is what is casuing all the other symtoms.. in particular the fatigue. im just so tired all the time, it isnt right.

    ive had sinus xrays, digestive ultrasound, stool tests, urine tests
    full blood count, ferretin, b12, glucose, h pylori, ceoliacs, basic thyroid, liver function, and a blood test for something to do with muscle inflamtion.
    they all came back normal.

    the only one im concerned about is b12 as it was 272 (this was 6 months ago) which i think is too low from everything ive read. but seeing as its in the normal range that doctors give, my doctor is dismissing it and disagrees with eveything i say about it. she says that because my FBC was normal and i my red blood cells are the right size i cant have b12 deficiency. but my symptoms do fit it, and id like to have more b12 related tests.

    id also like to get my hormone levels tested becasue of the period problems and becasue i have other symptoms pf hormon imbalance like excess hair and spots. but my doctor says my hormones will be balanced becasue im on the pill.

    ive seen 2 doctors now and they just seem to think its all down to the depression and just give me more anti-depressants and treat it like a therapy sessions, rather than talking about more tests or my physical symptoms.

    i dont know what to do now... could it be b12? should i push for more tests? is there anything else i should try and get tested?

    i'm desperate fro some input, thanks.

     
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    Old 03-17-2009, 04:01 AM   #2
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    Re: b12?

    please, anyone??!

     
    Old 03-17-2009, 10:37 AM   #3
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    Re: b12?

    Hi helpwanted,

    The first thing I would suggest is to get a copy of all your lab work results. Sometimes the doctors will say everything is within normal ranges and leave it at that, but your levels could be sub-optimal for you. It would be very helpful to have those numbers and then you could post them here and see if anything stands out.

    Your symptoms could be attributed to many things with thyroid being one of them. Have you ever had your thyroid antibodies tested? Have you ever had your Vit. D levels and ferritin tested?

    I would try aciphophilus for the digestive issues and see if that helps at all. Acidophilus is also good for the immune system in general.

     
    Old 03-17-2009, 11:57 AM   #4
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    Re: b12?

    I can truly sympathise with how you're feeling, been back and for doctors for 2 yrs now, today was the 1st time I've ever heard of b12 deficiency.
    It started about 2 yrs ago, I started feeling tired all the time, any little upset in the house or between the children was to much, I just couldn't cope with it. After wks of 'just getting on with it' I ended up in bed for 3 wks, the doctor diagnosed me with fatigue and wanted me to take anti-depressants which I refused.
    Over the last 2 yrs my energy levels have been non existant, I've 'dragged' myself through every day, putting on a brave face and collapsing in agony every evening.
    Every time I went back to the doctor I wasn't sure if I was being taken seriosly, I had nothing to show for the aches, pains, tiredness and headaches.
    January this yr my health started to rapidly go down hill, my whole body ached, shooting pains in my shoulders and hips and splitting headaches, most days I was incapable of getting out of bed. I was diagnosed with 'inflammation of the joints and blood vessels' the doctor put me on steroids 3 wks ago to deal with the inflammation. He told me my red blood levels were high but he'll do further blood tests to investigate.
    3 wks on and I'm no better so went back to surgery today and spoke to a different doctor who actually examined my joints (the 1st doctor hadn't), checked my last blood results and told me about b12 deficiency. He has ordered futher blood tests now and I have to see him again next wk.
    I've been sufferng for so long now, the thought of living life without pain, having the energy to spoil the children, starting a social life again, I wouldn't know where to start. It could be as simple as a vitamin tablet every day! Never give up hope!

    Last edited by swjack; 03-17-2009 at 12:06 PM.

     
    Old 03-17-2009, 06:53 PM   #5
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    Re: b12?

    thanks for your replies...
    swjack i know exactly what you mean having to drag yourself throug each day, sometimes i wish i could go to bed at night and not wake up untill the weekend so i didnt have to froce myself to go to work and do everyday tasks. i hope youfind an answer, id be interested to know your test results and what the doctor says.

    here kittykitty,
    ive got copies of most of my numbers from the last time they were tested about 6 months ago, and they are all within 'normal range'..

    RBC 4.49
    HB 13.8
    Heamocrit 0.41
    MCV 92
    MHC 30.7
    platelets 269
    MCHC 33.4
    ferretin 67
    B12 272 (range 140-900)

    i dont no my thyroid numbers, only that they were 'normal'

    id be interested to know what you think

     
    Old 03-17-2009, 08:27 PM   #6
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    Re: b12?

    help wanted--If I were you, I would work on that B-12 until you are at the top of the range which will take a while. Then see what symptoms are left; 400-500 is still the symptom stage no matter what the doc says about being okay and in range. The next thing that I would have done is see a Rheumatologist to rule out AI disease that may be at work and undetected at least an ANA and C-RP. Along with the thyroid, keep checking that too. Did you have a test for the Anti's for Hashi's? These are things that may contribute to your symptoms or not. Whenever there is fatigue that you are speaking of all these things need to be ruled out and even more that your doctor can ask for. This is a good start. I do understand how you are feeling, I myself have done all these things and still suffer with the fatigue. My GYN said the other day she believes that it is CFS, but to be sure it is not a bigger problem too, such as a blood cancer. I would have thought that my Hematologist has already ruled that one out too. Take care and keep us posted.
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    Old 03-18-2009, 05:49 AM   #7
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    Re: b12?

    i dont no my thyroid numbers, only that they were 'normal'

    I'm sure you already know, but sometimes their "normal" is not normal at all. I was reading a post from someone on the thyroid board that their doctor wouldn't treat anything lower than a TSH of 10?!? Your symptoms could very well be thyroid related or B12 related or both.

    Are you supplementing your B vitamins at all? I would supplement B12, folate, B6, Vit. D, acidophilus (for your digestive problems).

    Last edited by herekittykitty; 03-18-2009 at 05:51 AM.

     
    Old 03-18-2009, 08:56 AM   #8
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    Re: b12?

    herekittykitty--That's true, many doctor's which totally amazes me, go by these ancient numbers or did a few years back. My first doc 4 yrs ago, also said 10 then he died, and I went to a new Endo, he didn't like the 10 and said, 8.0 OMG, LOL. I was fortunate to hold at an 8.0 TSH at that time, so I was lucky to be treated I guess. Do you have Hashi's too?
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    Old 03-18-2009, 11:35 AM   #9
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    Re: b12?

    Flflowergirl,

    I do have Hashi's and most of the things you have listed under your name (plus a few more)! I have not had the endometrial ablation though, but I'm sure it would help me. I'm trying the bioidentical progesterone for heavy periods and breast issues, but so far no change, but it's only been one month. If that doesn't work I'm not sure what to do, but I'm pretty fed up living my life around my cycle, if you know what I mean

     
    Old 03-18-2009, 06:32 PM   #10
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    Re: b12?

    hi guys...
    no im not taking b12 at the moment as im still pushing to get the tests done and i dont want to skew the results by taking b12.
    youre definelty right about normal not being normal, from everything i read on here it seems like most doctors dont have a clue about anything more complex that the common cold or a sore throat.

    so ill be going back to the doctor asking for more b12 tests... and exactly what thyroid tests do i need?

    flower girl... are antis and hashis thyroid related? are there specific tests for these?

     
    Old 03-18-2009, 08:04 PM   #11
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    Re: b12?

    Hashimoto's is an AI disease, that runs in families not a thyroid condition. The immune system, identifies the thyroid as being foreign matter, not belonging. Like people that have transplants that are rejected. The immune system makes antibodies to attack “foreign” tissue, which is in reality is the thyroid.

    The tests that my doc ran on me were; TPO Abs= Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies with a TSH= Thyroid Stimulating Hormone, and Free T-4. There are others, but I haven't had anything else. Each doc has their own idea and philosophy of what they believe and subsequently test for. I see an Endocrinologist for this and take Synthroid. There are some cases where people are treated for Hashimoto's and no Anti's are present, it is in the symptoms and clinical findings and great doc! I'm sure this is rare though and rarely treated too if it were the case.
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    Old 03-18-2009, 08:16 PM   #12
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    Re: b12?

    herekittykitty-- Aren't we so lucky . I'm curious about the rest of your list, I have some too you know. I wonder if they are the same, LOL. Are you on meds for Hashi's? How long have you known this monster according to labs? I think that I have always been this way since I can remember unless it was really anemia. Mine was discovered because I thought that I was anemic, but it was really Hashi's rearing it's ugly head. If you are done having children, I would say to have an ablation. I also had 7 polyps removed. It's really the best thing that I have ever done. Simple and quick and great results for me. And....yes I do know exactly what you mean.
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    Old 05-22-2009, 03:50 AM   #13
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    Re: b12?

    hi guys,
    thought id give you an update... ive been back to the doctors trying to get her to listen to me about the b12 - she called it 'american hype' and basically said my level was within range and thats fine, and she doesnt believe the whole b12 thing.
    however she has agreed to redo all my blood tests including b12 and had given me some b12 tablests to try for a few months.

    Arghhh doctors are no help!!
    sometimes i feel disabled where i feel so weak and ill and shes trying to tell me theres nothign wrong with me!!!

    oh and the b12 shes prescribes is cyanocobalamin 50mg tablets...will this even be enough to make a difference to my b12? should i try sublinguals instead?

    Last edited by help wanted :(; 05-22-2009 at 04:14 AM.

     
    Old 05-22-2009, 07:17 PM   #14
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    Re: b12?

    help wanted --Hello and how are you getting along?

    That is soooo funny to me your doc's statement "American hype." It reminds me of when I lived in the UK. Anyway, I had to laugh about that one. I think that our doctor's would also agree with her, although, they would call it "cyberspace hype." So, perhaps she's not too far off.

    Have you had a recheck of your B-12? If not, I would supplement from the old readings that you gave in the past. Once you build these numbers up, see if your symptoms get better or go away. It's really that simple. I think that SBL-M is the way to go, it can't hurt you to try it. Take care and keep us posted. FLFG
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    Old 05-22-2009, 10:42 PM   #15
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    Re: b12?

    Hi help wanted - wow, i truly feel for you, but i'm another who went through years (9yrs in fact) before i got help for an existing thyroid condition which i was told repeatedly did not exist, and by an Endo of all people!! I wish i knew way back then that there were Healthboards on the net!!

    As your doctor feels giving you a further B12 test was like cutting her right arm off, i'm a bit worried she will refuse you other tests. For your Thyroid it would be helpful to get: TSH, FT4, FT3 and Thyroid Antobies to rule out Auto Immune thyroid disorders like Graves and Hashimoto's. I have Hashimoto's myself and we believe it runs on my dad's side of the family.

    Common with thyroid issues are digestive disorders, but just having a digestive disroder does not mean you do have a thyroid problem. The thing is, there are thyroid receptors in our stomach, ovaries, liver and one other place (i think it's at the adrenals?) The problem is, you could be affected by health issues from one or all of these receptor sites.

    I myself had digestive issues. I would bloat, was constantly hungry and could eat more than any of the men at work and not put on weight, i'd be tired after eating, had no energy and about 15 mins after eating lunch i was thinking of food again. After lunch at about 3pm i'd be craving something sweet or more food, then when i finished work at 5pm i could eat a horse. People at work were astonished how i only thought of food and ate so much.

    Last year i had a stool analysis test, which also checks for various digestive disorders and it was found that although i digested fats and carbs well, i wasn't digesting protein foods well at all due to lack of pancreatic enzymes. When you don't digest certain foods well they will ferment and particles will float around which can cause inflammation at various locations of the body eg: thyroid and can also contribute/cause allergies, arthritis among other things. Once i began taking digestive enzymes (by prescription) i began eating what would be considered 'normal' meals. I was no longer hungry all the time. My bloating and stomach issues disappeared.

    You might want to also check for a gluten intolerance test. This can lead to malabsorption of nutrients and some people will get symptoms while others wont.

    Have you tried going off dairy incase you have a lactose problem? Lactose intolerance is linked to problems digesting carbs.

    My doctor also did a liver detox test and my phase 2 liver detox is not the best. This isn't good, in particular when it comes to excess estrogen, as the liver can't get rid of it and the last thing you want is excess estrogen as it will mess with your monthly cycles and can results in growth of fibroids.

    My periods were also a mess for a number of years and doctor simply told me to go on birth control. If you have a hormone imbalance, particularly estrogen excess, birth control can cause even bigger problems down the track as they are a synthetic hormone and often the hormones in these pills are numerous times more than what our body needs. If you already have excess estrogen, then birth control which is often high in estrogen or estrogen only is adding to your excess. Estrogen excess is linked to breast, head and neck cancers in women and prostate cancer in men.

    Being low in ferritin, B12 and Vit D can cause symptoms of their own and can make other health conditions even worse. Ferritin, B12 and Vit D ought to be in the upper ranges of your lab report and they also help a great many things, including your thyroid.

    In your case, you are likely low in one or more things and you could be suffering from a thyroid condition in conjunction with a hormone imbalance. Until someone does the relevant tests it wont be easy to help you with sufficient information.

    With the B12, you can buy supplements in the healthfood store. I wouldn't be looking from approval from your doctor. Can you change doctors as i truly don't feel she is going to genuinly be caring or helpful enough to get you back on track and feel good again. I've changed a number of doctors until i found a good one who looks at symptoms and lab results. There is no point in staying with someone and feeling ill.

    Take care and i hope you feel better soon

     
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