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    Old 10-17-2012, 08:13 AM   #1
    goblinsly
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    lower back pain when sitting

    Hey everyone,

    I have had problems with my back since i was 19 years old. I remember one time at the gym i was doing lower back extensions and when i came home i didnt feel pain but this strange feeling of "emptiness", basicly just like someone replaced my disk with some artificial thingy....
    Soon after my back started aching. It was not your everyday muscle pain, it was different and a lot worse. Interesting thing was that it started as soon as i sat down and it was horrible, like a knife stabbing my back. When i stood up it was fine in a second. Pain was there also when lying on my back ( and on my stomach, but less painfull ). Pain was also there when standing up for more then a coupe of seconds, pain was a lot less then sitting down though.
    Offcourse no one took me seriously and they gave me exercises which offcourse didnt help. Interesting thing was also that none of the pills helped, i tried many, even tramadol didnt help.

    When i was 22, things suddenly became worse ( well cant really say it became worse because it was hell even before ). My back pain was less strong or something even went away completely, but my left leg started to hurt a lot but only when i was standing. I could never stand more then 20 seconds because i would collapse. Everyday it was worse soo in 2008 i had an operation. Broken disk and vertebra slip. I got 2 screws inside and all was well. After an operation i had 2 years of painless life, it was wondefull. Mid 2011 pain came back. It is exactly the same back pain as before and i can feel it also in my left leg but not as pain but only as, well, its hard to describe, i just feel it going down my left leg. Back pain is terrible and again no pills help.

    I was at the doctor, we did CT, MRI and a couple of other things and he said he cant see anything that would cause the pain ( there are certain things wrong but cant see anything that could cause the pain ). He said to come back if things become worse ( once again - they cant ). No amount of pills will help even a little with the pain. Soo here i am, a computer and information science student who cant sit more then a couple of seconds and doctors who dont give a damn. Soo this is your story, feel free to comment.
    ps: exercises only make things worse. What is also strange is that i can run no problem, even feel a bit better the next day. But i cant sit. Imagine the life without sitting. College, job, lunch, bus, etc. Fun, aint it.

     
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    Old 10-17-2012, 10:03 AM   #2
    pebblebeach3
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    Re: lower back pain when sitting

    The only thing that strikes me at the moment is that you said you saw the doctor. Was this your primary doctor? Or did you see an orthopedic or neurosurgeon?
    If you are having continuing issues I suggest seeing a specialist. One that specializes in and treats specifically spine related issues.
    Do you have a copy of the MRI films? Do you have a copy of the MRI report? When was the MRI done?
    Not sure what else to add for the moment but I would see a spicalist if you already haven't. Good luck.

     
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    Old 10-17-2012, 10:50 AM   #3
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    Re: lower back pain when sitting

    Have you ever had a flexion/extension x-ray? One possibility for a cause for your pain is a condition called spondylolisthesis. It often happens l at the L5-S1 or the level above, L4-L5 and it is a condition where one vertebra slips over the top of the adjacent vertebra. This condition can be something one is born with; it happens to young athletes who spend a lot of time doing activities that require the spine to be in extension such as gymnastics, dance, diving, etc. or in sports where there is impact. In this case a very small bone called the pars can crack or develop a fracture that allows the vertebra to slip. Nerves can become caught up in this, resulting in nerve compression. It can also develop as degenerative changes in the spine occur. (This is the type I had...after five+ decades of wear and tear on my spine...and a youth spent working at competitive ice skating.)

    The condition can be stable, in which case people are not aware they have it...or it can cause some instability which usually results in nerve pain that radiates out from the spine, often down one or both legs. Sciatic pain is often a symptom.

    Your GP could order a flexion/extension x-ray. One can waste a lot of time having the GP, PCP or family doctor diagnose a patient from looking at MRI or CT scan. They do not have the additional training in the workings of the spine that are required. I wasted over a year with my internist, who kept assuring me everything looks good for someone my age. It was not until I went to an orthopedic spine surgeon that I learned of the spondylolisthesis that was responsible for my pain, something so subtle on MRI that my internist had overlooked it.

    If your pain continues, I would also suggest you make an appointment with either an orthopedic spine surgeon or a neurosurgeon whose practice is limited to the neck and back for an evaluation. Be sure to get copies of your MRI to take with you.

     
    Old 10-17-2012, 01:14 PM   #4
    goblinsly
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    Re: lower back pain when sitting

    I have been to orthopedic spine surgeon, the one that operated me in 2008. I went to see him about 6 times this year, he sent me to several different scans ( MRI, CT, Pet-CT, Scintigram, etc. ). I would love to show you MRI scans but the cd contains 700mb of data, i have no idea which pictures to show you...but i will tell you some data i have, will try to translate it:


    BEFORE operation:
    -Lumboischialgia sin./Radikulopathia S1 sin. M54.4
    -Lysthesis L5-S1
    -Mayerding 1
    -Stenosis LSH

    AFTER the operation:

    2012 scintigraphy:
    - increased accumulation in LS transition right, which is suspicious for loosened screw S1 ( when i went to the doctor the last time he said the screw is not loosened ).
    - indicated accumulation in both "sternoklavikularni" joints - initial arthrosis changes

    2012 CT:
    - interpedunkular screws in L5 are deep inside the "korpus", in higher terminal plate or maybe even inside L4L5 disc.
    - "foramna" L5S1 are deformed but not cramped

    2012 MRI
    - strongly emphasized Lumbar lordozis in sagital plane
    - very well seen "sacrum acutum"
    - Ls S1 where fixation ( with operation ) was made seems almost completely bone bridged but there is seen minimal anterior move of "korpus" P5
    - nothing special in L3 - L4
    - L4 - L5 shows stenozant changes on both sides with moderate stenosis of both "recesus". Already in this level there is spondilartrosis of small joints
    - Level L5-S1 where the operation was made shows stenozant changes from left side because of comprehensive scarring.
    - comprehensive postoperative changes with layering on small joints/ Sclero-something in small joints that is direct result of listezis.

    FINAL WORDS ( regarding MRI ): Stenozant changes of spinal channel, mostly in level L5 S1, where there can be, besides severe scarring, small protruzion of disc into the area of left recesus

    I am really sorry but this is the best i can do with the translation, some of the terms are in Latin, which should more or less be standard all around the world, but other words i tried to translate as best as i can.
    Since there is a severe scarring....it might be the reason. But if it is, i am very close to giving up. My doctor said that there cannot be anything done with an operation, by itself it will not get better ( with years it will just get worse ) and my pills ( once i even tried 70mg of tramadol once..) arent helping even a little. Even if tramadol helped it would be bad news because i read how easily you get addicted to it, that is why in this year i only took about 20 pills each containing 37.5mg of tramadol, because of the fear of addiction. But if it would help...i would rather be addicted and live semi normal life. But like i said, it doesnt help.

    I have to say that otherwise my lower back is ok. I can play basketball, i can box, i can run, i can lift weights. My orthopedic spine surgeon even said that i SHOULD do sports, move as much as possible etc. And i can do it, the only problem is pain when i sit down and this pain is terrible. I have a very high pain threshold, if not extreme, but this is terrible. It always hurts when i sit down or lay on my back, but sometimes it even hurts when i am laying on my side. The pain is less severe but still. Basicly i dont sit at all, exept few hours a week at college, i only attend parts that i HAVE to attent ( in order to be allowed to write exams ). But i am missing on a lot of information because of that.
    If there is anything you can advice that would help me...it would be great. My worst fear right now is that even if i manage to finish college since i study laying down...how will i work ? Without work i cannot earn money, without money i cannot take care of myself. This is terrible..

    Last edited by goblinsly; 10-17-2012 at 01:19 PM.

     
    Old 10-17-2012, 07:13 PM   #5
    ibake&pray
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    Re: lower back pain when sitting

    [COLOR="Purple"]First I am sorry for your distress and pain. There is something that can be done about that.

    The pain that you are experiencing sounds like nerve pain. The pain that is running down your leg is because the nerves are being irritated or compressed by the discs. There are meds that can be taken that will help with that pain. The meds were originally developed to control seizures...the side benefit is that they also work to control nerve pain. There are three that spring to mind immediately-Neurontin, Topomax and the newest member of the gang-Lyrica. All of them come with a side effect or another. some might affect you, or not. BUT, it might be worth your time to try to see if they can help. Because the pain meds you took did not touch your pain, I feel that one of these might work.

    If your surgeon said there is nothing to be done, you have a choice. See another specialist for a second opinion-which is wise. YOur other choice is to see a pain mangemetn specialist who can help you cope with the pain.

    I will live with some degree of pain the rest of my life and I have a PM doc that keeps mesane and mobile. You can live your life, you just need to find out how.

    Now a word about addiction. People who take pain meds to control their pain and function in a normal world do not get addicted to pain meds. They may become dependant upon them, but not addicted. People who take the drugs for the rush or the high become addicted..See the difference?

    I hope that you can find some relief. Keep us poste. [COLOR]

     
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    Old 10-18-2012, 12:36 PM   #6
    goblinsly
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    Re: lower back pain when sitting

    Thank you for your reply,

    This pain going down my leg, its not really a pain ( or maybe compared to back pain its soo mild i dont recognise it as pain ), its just a feeling. I can feel mild tingling in my leg but only when my back hurts.

    Hopefully tomorrow i can get in touch with my personal doctor and see if he can prescribe me any of this meds or only a specialist can. Also i found out that even out country has some kind of pain doctor or a specialist soo i want to go to him asap.

    Again i have to say how amazed i am at brutality of out doctors and people, how pain is something "you just have to deal with". I mean in year 2012 this to me is completely cruel. As a student, today i had 4 hours of practice that you have to attent, otherwise you cant complete the subject. I took 75mg of tramadol, about 1200mg of paracetamol and 60mg arcoxia. It had completely no effect, basicly the pain was soo bad that in my chair, i was moving like a worm that has been cut in half. Tramadol made me sleepy but that is all it did. And despite all this, orthoped doctor finished my treatment and said to return if things get worse. Maybe the pain is talking but i think doctor like this should lose his licence.

    I lost many years of my life because of back pain, finished high school at 24 instead of 18 because of it, i finaly came to college at 25 and now the pain is back, i almost lost the battle 2 years ago...but your words gave me some optimism, that i might be able to find something to ease the pain. I am still amazed though that tramal doesnt work. I thought it was very strong and helped ppl with severe damage to their body....and it even helped me few months ago, 37.5mg gave me 2-3 hours of peace while sitting down.Now suddenly even 70mg does nothing. In anycase i will keep you posted, if anyone has similar trouble i would be glad to hear your story. Sorry for being such a pain but right now i can hardly talk about anything else then this.

     
    Old 10-19-2012, 02:11 PM   #7
    goblinsly
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    Re: lower back pain when sitting

    I went to the doctor today and they gave me ibuprofen. Imagine, horse dosage of tramadol which is one of the strogest painkillers you can get doesnt have even minimum effect on me and they give me a pill you can give to small children, a pill that you can get without prescription. That and told me to return in 1 week when they will decide what to do with me. And just as a proff that this is not the only case....3 weeks ago i was at my orthoped surgeon and when i told him that no amount of painkillers, even tramadol wont help me, he said that i should try Paracetamol.
    I asked them if they could give me any of the 3 medicines you wrote down but they said this are serious pills. Oh, serious. Unlike my pain, right ?
    The pain is getting worse and is not just limited to sitting. Even when i lie down in any position it hurts a lot, i have trouble falling asleep because of it, let aside do any serious work.

    I am very close to giving up.

     
    Old 10-19-2012, 03:08 PM   #8
    michellegrl
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    Re: lower back pain when sitting

    try doing excercises to strengthen the upper back as well as to strengthen your lower back
    see how you feel
    if that doesnt help there are different ways to stretch the back muscles and avoiding the pain

     
    Old 10-20-2012, 02:30 PM   #9
    goblinsly
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    Re: lower back pain when sitting

    Thank you for your reply,

    I try to stay in good shape no matter what, i do core exercises and other exercises aswell. A while ago i even lost some weight just to check if having less weight aka less weight pressing on my spine would help. Went from 85kg to 75kg, i got my 6 pack back but didnt make any difference regarding the pain.
    My upper back i belive is average, could be better but still i can do about 15-20 chinups/pullups.

    I have a few questions about painkillers/meds. Arcoxia 60mg once per day vs ibuprofen 400mg 3 times a day ( 1200mg together ). Which would you say is stronger ? Next friday when i check with the doctor he will probably ask if ibuprofen helped me since it takes at least a week to help ( if indeed i have that kind of problems ).

    Question regarding tramadol. I do know the difference between being dependent and addicted but still, once you want to quit taking them, you still do feel bad. 2 years ago i stoped smoking soo if its "only" that bad i can handle it. I only smoked for a few years but smoked few packs a day soo first 2 weeks without were shaking hell. But i can handle that...pain is much worse...
    But how fast will i get to the point where i will feel bad once i stop taking the meds. If i were to take 37.5mg tramadol 5 or 7 days a week....how many weeks or months before i had trouble getting off them ?

    Also if anyone has any idea why a few months ago when i took 37.5mg tramadol it helped me even when i sat, barely felt the pain. Now even 70mg does nothing. It cant be that i got used to it, like i said, i used 1 or maybe 2 boxes each containing maybe 20x37.5mg pills this year...

    Last edited by goblinsly; 10-20-2012 at 02:34 PM.

     
    Old 10-20-2012, 07:23 PM   #10
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    Re: lower back pain when sitting

    hi, I was in IT and had the same problem could not sit down or stand. I could walk ok. MRI showed nothing. Finally found a dr. who did an discogram on me showing a tear/leakage in the disc where the liquid part of the disc irritates the nerves.

    Also, I got a TENS unit. Get one. Has little pads you stick on your lower back and a small machine you hook to your waist like 3x5 and it sends pulses to your back and overrides the pain signals to your brain, it SAVED me until they got it figured out.

    I had a disc biacuplasty to fix the torn disc which was a non-evasive technique. Invented by Baylis, you can look this up.

    I like the idea of the nerve pain meds but wanted to add the one topomax is the only one that doesn't usually put weight on you. make sure you start off at low dose and work up slowly if you start having bad side effects back off until they go away. IMO. they do mess w/ your short term memory btw. :/.

    hope this helps, Cathy

     
    Old 10-26-2012, 09:45 AM   #11
    goblinsly
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    Re: lower back pain when sitting

    I have some news.

    My personal doctor sent me to pain doctor, next week they will send me a mail saying when i have an apointment. Wont be very soon but it is good news that things are moving forward. Hopefully this will solve 1 part of the problem which is, living normal or semi-normal until we find the cause of pain.

    My personal doctor also said she will wait for pain doctor report before she sends me anywhere else, like neurosurgeon. Which is fine since all my scans and back reports are currently being checked by another doctor which my dad knows. I figured i need someone who we personaly know, someone who will devote to this problem ( either this or someone we pay... ). My back problem it seems is complex and orthopedic doctor checking scans for 20 seconds wont do.

     
    Old 10-30-2012, 01:06 PM   #12
    goblinsly
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    Re: lower back pain when sitting

    I just had a thought....i only feel major pain when i sit, stand still for a longer period of time or when i lie on my back.....MRI was done when i was lying on my back but still...could it be possible that pictures didnt show anything because.....

    When i sit, all the weight is on my back. Is it possible that MRI and others dont show anything wrong because i need to sit in order for it to show ? For instance...when i sit, the weight pushes the disc out and into my nerves ? But when i stand up or lie on my back, its back to normal ?

     
    Old 10-31-2012, 10:46 AM   #13
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    Re: lower back pain when sitting

    I too am experiencing lower back pain, have had mri,bonescan, discogram, and what they tell me is arthritis on the left lower facet joint, first they tried a epidural injection no relief, so they sent me to pain management, I told them it better not be physical therapy, water therapy, tens unit, I have tried them all and still no relief. So last week I had a facet injection at three different levels, still hurts to sit, so I called and was told to give it the 30 days and to continue to take my gabapentin but that I should gradually increase my dose, I said how are we going to be able to tell whats working the pain pills or the injections but anyways waiting it out, I was told by my first pain management dr. that it was the L5 nerve she did a EMG and confirmed that, I am doctoring at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester MN at this time, because all my doctors around here just kept pushing me from one doctor to the next or that nothing they could do ugh so thats why I am now going to Mayo clinic, so I feel your pain, I just want to be able to sit pain free.
    I fell two years ago this thanksgiving and the pain started 3 months later.

     
    Old 10-31-2012, 11:50 AM   #14
    goblinsly
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    Re: lower back pain when sitting

    Thank you for your experience. I have pain doctor on 12.12.2012. I might lose if he mentioned anything about physical therapy, water therapy, massage, cream, natural remedies...a person just knows that it wont help, the pain is too severe besides, in my 8 years of pain i tried probably everything there is. I need an operation and i need a pill strong enough to kill a horse and an injection strong enough to knock out a rhino. Thats just the way it is. And a different chair wont help either because unless it can nullify the gravity...its useless. Lets hope we can both get better.

     
    Old 11-07-2012, 02:55 PM   #15
    goblinsly
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    Re: lower back pain when sitting

    Just wanted to let you know that with the help of the connections i managed to visit neurologist. She said that my back is in a very bad shape, degenerative things all around. She also said no way to operate ( yet, if nerves get pinched again i will be ), i have to learn to live with it but also said meds should make my life bearable, well actualy she said i WILL have a quality life. Uptil now i have been taking 10mg cipralex per day, she replaced it with 90mg cimbalda ( its funny, just a few days ago i read that it helped many ppl with reducing the pain or at least the perception.
    She also gave me neurontin, 75mg before bedtime and said we will increase the dosage as needed. She said i will also go to physiatrist for exercises ( and other treathments ) and if necesary will get blockade injection.

    She was amazingly nice. This is all i wanted and i actualy had to use connection for that....i had to find someone who my family members are friends with. I cant see why other doctors couldnt help me before when i was just an ordinary Joe....it is soo simply to me...you have got a patient with very bad pain, you help him, not send him home (with a bunch of pills he told you doesnt help him ) and tell him, you better get used to a life of pain.

    I am happy that things are moving, i know that it will take a while to find the right combination of meds but at least something is happening !

     
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