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arlo
12-27-2003, 02:27 AM
The thing with the diet plans on here is that the foods are so damn expensive! I'd love to be able to just eat chicken, tuna and salad (which I would need a LOT seeings I am trying to do a bodybuilding bulk phase...) etc... but the costs would be huge. I used to eat heaps of bread and pasta - cheap and filling... but on the acne friendly diets there seems to be no cheap substitute... is there a variation of rice that would do?

AccutaneAvenger
12-27-2003, 05:04 AM
Acne prone people and bodybuilding just don't mix in my view.

I used to love working out in the gym for 2 years straight, but gave it up 6 months ago cos I came to the realisation that bodybuilding is just no good for your skin cos it requires large amounts of protein and carbs - no two ways about it - you've got to eat like crazy which means you get a whack on the glycemic index and a surge of testosterone and mucus producing foods.

You can't even say 'Oh well I'll just eat a large amount of tuna and salads'. If you do this, your body will burn up the protein in the tuna as energy not as muscle repair, cos it will need high amounts of energy and fruit and veges will not do it. So it will steal the protein for energy and you won't have enough for muscle repair.

In my view, there is no way you can do bodybuilding on a SweetJade diet lol!

AA

T-zone
12-27-2003, 07:41 AM
The answer to your energy needs is olive oil, more precisely extra virgin, add it to absolutely everything, that and nuts, brazils are pretty cheap, no peanuts/cashews though. I go through a 750ml (1.5 pint) bottle of oil every couple weeks.

AccutaneAvenger
12-27-2003, 08:01 AM
The answer to your energy needs is olive oil, more precisely extra virgin, add it to absolutely everything, that and nuts, brazils are pretty cheap, no peanuts/cashews though. I go through a 750ml (1.5 pint) bottle of oil every couple weeks.

T-Zone, re olive oil, aren't you terrified that the oil accidentally drips onto your skin. ie when you eat salad, usually some of the dressing goes onto the skin directly around your mouth. I would freak out if my salad dressing was oil based cos all that oil would touch my skin around my mouth and cause breakouts big time. Do you find this?

AA

SweetJade1
12-27-2003, 08:23 AM
T-Zone, re olive oil, aren't you terrified that the oil accidentally drips onto your skin. ie when you eat salad, usually some of the dressing goes onto the skin directly around your mouth. I would freak out if my salad dressing was oil based cos all that oil would touch my skin around my mouth and cause breakouts big time. Do you find this?

AA

LOL, wow, how the acne community has been misinformed!

Well I suppose some people might breakout from certain oils touching their, but olive oil isn't supposed to be pore clogging. It is used as a natural surfactant in handmade soaps. It is used as a natural moisturizer, for the face, body and hair, although it's a bit heavy feeling (so acne sufferers may not want to use this on their face). There's a derivative from this known as SQUALENE that helps to lighten marks/dark spots on your skin. I've been using a mild glycolic serum (haven't touched in a while though) for 2 years thats got squalene and it never broke me out. Squalene is also not a pore clogger ;-)

I really enjoy extra virgin olive oil. It's the best testing and the most nutritious and healthiest to use. For those that can't have dairy and other junk in their dressings, using oils is the most natural thing to do. If you choose to make your own dressing, from scratch or with a Mix, using acne healing oils (those with high EFA content) is a rather yummy way to do it ;-)

T-zone
12-27-2003, 11:41 AM
T-Zone, re olive oil, aren't you terrified that the oil accidentally drips onto your skin. ie when you eat salad, usually some of the dressing goes onto the skin directly around your mouth. I would freak out if my salad dressing was oil based cos all that oil would touch my skin around my mouth and cause breakouts big time. Do you find this?

AA

Not at all, though I understand your concern. I do avoid skin contact when applying a lip balm as they a pretty condomic in general, I do wash out my hair gel/wax before I go too bed, but one can be too paranoid. I find the best way to ingest olive oil, particulary if you don't like the taste, is to add lots to an omlett or to anything you fry, that way it is absorbed into the food. You can also put loads into currys and chillys.

prometheus
12-27-2003, 01:32 PM
If you have acne, or any other health related problem, I think it is something you need to invest in. Nutrient substandard foods and junk foods are cheap and if you have been living off of them you come to think of food as not something that should be costly or that needs investing in. Good food is costly and it is something that needs to be invested in if you want to live in vitality or if you want health to improve. The food pyramid was created to reflect business and changes appropriately. Why else would it be plastered all over cereal boxes? It was never created to really educate people on what to eat. Grains can be the bulk of your diet but I don't think they should be. I think vegetables should be. This is especially so since there is no differentiation between good grains (unrefined, unprocessed) and bad grains (refined, processed, denatured, fortified, hydrogenated oil/sugar loaded) on the so-called food pyramid. If you take a walk down the produce aisle in your grocery store, that is everything people with acne should be eating to get better. Yes cereals, grains, and dairy are cheap, but they are also cheap in your body too. If you want to be cheap with food then your body is going to be cheap too. I know some people are living in poverty or conditions which prevent them from being able to afford things, so you do the best you can with what you've got. There are always sacrifices. The thing is, people no longer see food as something to sacrifice for. Admittedly, I don't know much about body building. I do know that eating carbs is good for this so you do not burn protein instead of fat. Fruits and vegetables are carbs too, though. So are raw nuts and seeds. I don't see why you couldn't body build on a diet of fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, and meat simply by eating more of it and working out. Yes, it would be expensive, but your body also views muscle mass as expensive. So I think it is important to understand what our bodies view as expensive, health wise, compared to what we view as expensive when we walk down the aisles of a grocery store.

SweetJade1
12-27-2003, 08:38 PM
Well like the above above above poster said, you can acheive lean muscle if you follow a paleolithic type of diet. So I'm guessing that his program follows along those lines and I'm excited to see how it all plays out ;-)

Now as to what Prometheus said, you are correct. I was just reading the January 2004 Consumer Reports (pg 12 - 16) and it was talking surprisingly Honestly (some may think of it as negative) about the food industry and the government's role. It brought to light a lot of things such as the fact that $20 billion dollars is used to subsidize Farmers. Ha ha, but not just any farmers, the ones that produce CORN (basis of hidden sugar in soft drinks, etc), Wheat, Soybean, and Sugar! The more they produce, the more money the government gives them.....so Of course it's CHEAPER =/ It's all about supply and demand, the more you have, the cheaper it is. These funds provided by the government cover HALF of these farmers salaries!

The really sad part is that's why Fruits and Vegetables are more expensive because THEY ARE NOT SUBSIDIZED! There was a man who was trying to get something implemented along these lines where you paid extra for the fast food, but if you ordered a salad or fruit, you would pay less (due to being subsidized) .....still hasn't happened. I think the reason was because it angered people to be told how to live thier lives (natural selection will take care that then). They felt that they shouldn't have to pay a "fat tax" on food (or their based on their weight), yet since the early 80s, Fruits and Vegetables price have risen nearly 130% whereas, junk foods haven't! Instead, Fats/oils have risen 57%, Soda/Soft Drinks have only risen 26%, and Beef fed on cheap grains (corn) have risen 50%!!!! So who has more right to be angry here?

I nearly felt like crying because this is where our tax dollars go. Our tax dollars pay for fruits and Veggies to be more expensive and grains to be the cheapest thing on the planet. Check this, for around $2.50 Frito Lay gets 56 lbs of corn to make Doritos. Why can't we get such a deal like that on our apples, oranges, etc???? No, instead I get 1 bag of grapes for $2.50 and those were on sale for 88 cents/lb!

So basically our $20 billion dollars that comes from our hard earned money (I could use more of it back) goes toward the very thing that I for the most part, don't even consume! Not to mention, that more our money goes toward "educating" the public about Diabetes and Obesity....when Hello, isn't this what's causing the problem to begin with???? Oh and this is the part that I loved, and was reaffirmed today at lunch, McDonald's Small Fries were the only fries they had in the 50s and now they have 3 sizes more! So I go to lunch at Burger King, I get my Chicken Ceasar Salad and order the Small fries (I was craving salt) and they tell me, "we don't make a small anymore. Would it be OK if I gave you a Medium?" What? (No), but for 20cents more I get 2x as much (this was another thing mentioned in the article) and so I agreed. Before I drove on, I look at the Menu Board and it has Medium, Large, and Extra Large listed under Fries....Guess they aren't into doing their part, or at least this Franchisee isn't.

When I got up to the window to pay, I told the woman that was a very bad thing. Smalls are just the right size portion for me to eat. In fact that's how we are supposed to be eating things, in portions. So taking into consideration that the size of your fist is one serving size, isn't it easy to see how quickly one can consume beyond what the food pyramid suggests? When calculating my current carb intake I took into consideration that for certain foods I'm consuming 1 - 3 portions during a single meal. That only got me to 200 - 300g of carbohydrates a day, yet I'm consuming half the carbs that I used to soo doubling that brings me to 400 - 600g of Carbs on my old diet. Hence, it's VERY easy to see why some people go beyond the average (200g) and consume 800g or more of Carbohydrates a day. That's way too many carbs, no wonder we have soo many health problems. =(

tiger88
12-27-2003, 09:53 PM
man, if wasnt breaking out right now, i would be on another solid cycle of test prop, winstrol and maybe even some finaplix as we speak, but i need to clear before i go back on the juice

prometheus
12-28-2003, 01:00 AM
Sweetjade, you must be an accountant ;) or atleast very stable in your finances and life. Mcdonald's website has the nutritional information for all of their meals. I think they must stretch the truth a little bit. You are right. Some people do not even know what is a normal portion anymore with all this super size junk.

Health is one of the best assets you can have, in my opinion. It may seem like you pay a lot for those grapes, or the produce you buy instead of cheap grains, but look at the return on your investment. It is worth it.

I think the whole attack on fat was prompted by a need to sell vegetable oil. Now they are attacking carbs, and I have to wonder why. Where there was once an advertisement for low fat products on the doorway of the grocery store, I looked up today and saw "low carb." Very interesting. Meanwhile the foodguide pyramid is being redone, because, allegedly, the first one was in error. I'm sure the next one will be equally in error, still having nothing to do with truly educating people on what to eat.

AccutaneAvenger
12-28-2003, 03:02 AM
Sweetjade, that is amazing info!!! How true!!!

As to weight training, well we still don't know this secret regimen to achieve clear skin in the gym, so I can't see how anything has changed. Re diet, I qualify myself by saying that although it is possible to follow the 'sweetjade diet' whilst lifting weights, it takes a huge amount of extra $$ and extra coordination to cope with the extra quantities, not to mention extremely uncomfortable stomachs lol. I mean, fruit and vegetables take up a huge amount of space in your stomach but give you next to no kilojoules. Sure there are nuts for kilojoules but I still think you will be struggling to get enough protein without stomachs crying to explode. Without the weight training factor, sure no problem - but that's not what we're talking about.

AA

arlo
12-28-2003, 04:55 AM
So instead of white bread/pasta etc... theres not a single variation of rice that would be suitable?

And thanks for all the info guys, much appreciated :)

erica1213
12-28-2003, 10:19 AM
So Sweetjade,
You eat ice cream and mcdonalds??!! I guess you've said in your posts before that you pretty much just avoid gluten, soda, bananas, and cherries... I get confused between you and those who dont eat ANYTHING refined (sugars, other processed foods, etc). Don't get me wrong, I think that those people who avoid all hydrogenated oils, and refined stuff are eating very healthy, but i'd rather have the things I MUST eliminate be at a minimum, because even though I'd like to eat that healthy, it's nice to not have to be TOTALLY paranoid about everything. Anyway, I know that it's individual and I have to figure out for myself what I need to avoid, but your little trip to Mickey D's gives me hope (although the fast food industry plays a large part in influencing the food industry, so I'm somewhat opposed, but that's another story...)
The only thing that confuses me about the whole diet issue, is whether the key is controlling blood sugar or if it's more a food sensitivity thing. Because avoiding gluten is not the same as eating a low carb diet. And it seems that people have reported that both have worked...
Maybe people who were on a low carb diet were actually just avoiding gluten without realizing it...

SweetJade1
12-28-2003, 11:55 AM
Accutane Avenger,
Yup you are correct. If you follow the SweetJade Type of diet, LOL, why don't you call it "Gluten Free and then some diet?" you can still wieght train. I've talked to several trainers around here and they tell me they follow a similar diet, loading up on Oat bran, eggs, whey (if this isn't a problem for you), etc. You can eat protein...but it never helped me gain weight, but it's neccessary for our muscles. You need the carbs to go IR and release that testosterone to get bigger....but fruit...nah it's not going to cut it. Then again, personally my body loved to turn all my extra fat from the carbs into Androgens anyway, so if I carb loaded...I still wouldn't gain weight...just acne. I'm glad some people's bodies have managed to find that "perfect" balance between muscles and acne....but not me ;-)

SweetJade1
12-28-2003, 12:05 PM
Arlo,
YES you can eat rice, I do. I usually eat white rice too. Maybe that's why I've got 1% left or maybe it's because I still consume some Hydrogenated oils, but heck considering the 99% acne that I DON'T HAVE....I'm a VERY happy camper.

So what type of diet are you trying to follow? The Gluten Free diet tends to get people 95% - 99% clear. I didn't hit 99% until I elminated other, usually Insulin Spiking, foods. Where as, the Paleolithic Diet or "Evil" Lectin Free diet (several varietions of these) get's people 100% clear.

So it really depends on what you are looking for right now. If you have the TIME, FUNDS, and SUPPORT to aim for 100% (could be as easy as eliminating only 2 foods), then go for it. If you don't have all of that right now, you may want to start with the Gluten Free diet. If that doesn't clear you, but you see progress, then you can work on fine tuning your diet =)

SweetJade1
12-28-2003, 12:41 PM
Prometheus,
Absolutely, health is one of the best assets you can have, after all, isnt that the basis for how "natural selection" works? ;-) It's interesting to see how some food companies care, like McDonalds, Applebees, Pizza Hut, Subway, Wendys, Taco Bell (not real mexican food), and Chilis and are at least TRYING to improve their menu selection in one way or another. It's really great to visit certain websites such as McDonalds, Burger King, Wendys, and Chik-Filet, and see not only the Nutritional Information, but also the INGREDIENT information. That way, if people choose to eat fast food, they can decide based on the ingredients in these foods. Thus for those that tend to feel this way, less paranoia and guilt will result.

Oh and don't even get me started on the Food Pyramid. Sigh.... I was really hoping they would implement Willett's Food Pyramid, but I guess not. It's based on the Whole Foods approach and even includes Exercise ;-) Did you check out the January 2003 article in Scientific American? IT was talking about how our current food pyramid came to be. To put it bluntly, it basically said that the doctors and scientist just ASSUMED that since people were getting fat, it must be because of (ALL) FATS! So of course, they tell us to carb load and avoid the fats. OK, but then why is it that people always gripe about eating cake, candy, ice cream, or chocolate because they know they'll gain weight? Candy doesnt have fat....so obviously it has to be something else too. Of course we know that that something is certain carbohydrates (I think you follow the no grain approach, right?).

Anyway, for those that are interested in the Willet's Food Pyramid this is the way it is structured:

Red Meats & Butter AND Refined Foods (white rice, bread & pasta, potatos and sweets): USE SPARINGLY

Dairy OR Calcium Supplement: 1 - 2x a Day

Fish, Poultry, & Eggs: 0 - 2x a Day

Nuts & Legumes: 1 - 2x a Day

Fruits: 2 - 3x a day

Vegetables: In ABUNDANCE

Plant Oils (Olive, Canola, Soy, Corn, Sunflower Peanut,and other vegetable oils): at Most Meals

WHOLE GRAINS: at most meals

Daily Exercise and Weight Control


*Multiple Vitamins for most
*Alcohol in MODERATION, unless contraindicated

Hmm...so when you compare this to the Original Food Pyramid, you can see that it's reduced your carbohydrate intake of certain foods (grains, refined) at least by 50%! Yup, 3 - 5 Servings of Grains vs. 6-11 servings.... Not to mention, you don't have to eat Meat or Animal Protein of any kind, including Dairy. I think it's a much nicer version....so of course the NEW one, wont be anything like it ;-)

take care

prometheus
12-28-2003, 02:08 PM
Sweetjade,

Absolutely it is. I see people active in their 90's and that is how I want to be if I live that long. If you ask someone in their later years how much they would pay, if they could afford it, to be alive in health for another five years and you might be surprised. Calculate how much extra you pay a year for healthy food and you just might be surprised how much it is worth it, compared to how much people spend out of pocket on prescription drugs and surgeries. It is not a risky investment, either. You can be pretty sure of the outcome. I don't know where the economy is going and I can't rely on insurance or medicare, so I invest in my health because I believe it is one of the best assets. Yea, Mcdonald's and friends realize that the average consumer is becoming health conscious. It is in their best interest to offer this information and atleast, somewhat healthy options. What is interesting to me is that they offer the nutritional information on their online website, because I would suppose they figure the customers who are more health conscious are the ones that also have and use the internet. More marketting strategies. They still offer super size portions and notoriously substandard chemically engineered food that tastes great, for people who aren't as concerned.

That is an interesting food pyramid. I haven't seen that. It's certainly better than the actual one. Any food pyramid that puts vegetables at the bottom I'll be happy with, while I may personally disagree with the rest. For instance, I'm not an advocate of vegetable oils and I definitely don't think they should be included in every meal. I don't believe they lower bad cholesterol, and I don't believe they have the myriad of other redeeming qualities that they are alleged to have, especially after they are denatured by heat in cooking, where they become dangerous. Polyunsaturated vegetable oils may, according to some studies, increase the likelihood of developing some cancers. Any rancid oil is dangerous in the body. Vegetable oils are unstable, very delicate, and go rancid very easily. We get enough vegetable oil from the vegetables we eat, as long as we eat them. The only exception to this is olive oil in its pure unrefined virgin cold pressed state. This oil actually does have some redeeming qualities but it should not be used in abundance, or heated, if you ask me. I'm careful because heart disease runs in both sides of my family. While saturated fat is slowly but surely being vindicated, I'm not going to wait for the professionals and the media to say they were wrong about saturated fat. Vegetable oils aren't better for you. They are atleast acknowledging that the hydrogenated variety is hazardous. I cook with saturated fat, because it is stable at higher temperatures, and won't cause harm to my heart and body. Atleast, personally, I know I am doing ok because of my lipid profile. My cholesterol is high, but I am only high in the HDL, good cholesterol, which is ideal. I can't say it would be the same for anyone else, but I have to warn people, because I believe it was another factor in my acne.

No, I'm not grain free, but grains are not a large portion of my diet either. Like you, I'm not a fan. If anything, it is usually brown rice on the side. I never eat refined grains, for sure. One dish I eat is made up of avocados, lemon juice, brown rice, chopped tomatoes, and spices. This is very alkalizing in the body, which is good when you are tensed up or under stress. I can, and do, eat any other gluten free grain. I can eat spelt on occassion(which means no more than one portion a month), and certain combinations of grains in breads, even though it has gluten. I am not sure why this is. I am also not so sure we should be suggesting that people eat white rice here, especially since the objective of this thread was to get the bulk of the diet from grain or cheap foods. Brown rice is not that much more expensive and can be bought in bulk. If someone is going to eat a lot of grains it is atleast better to eat the unrefined variety.

Sweetjade, I have to ask you. You say it is alright for people with acne to eat some things that you do, because you are 99% clear, but aren't you off and on certain medications? Wouldn't you have to recommend them too?

I would bet that the new food pyramid has meat items on the bottom.

Oh, and you are right that fat doesn't make anyone fat. The only reason they are coming out with this now in mass, though, is because they don't need to sell anyone vegetable oil. People will still buy it. I would say Atkins is responsible for the popularization of the anti carb movement, but I'm not so sure. It does help people with their insulin resistence and type 2 diabetes, but I think this is only because they are avoiding the bad carbs too. Fruits, vegetables, nuts, and seeds are carbs everyone should be eating in bulk. I think looking at food as protein and carbs is very binary and, too black and white to be beneficial. But again, everyone will be praising low carb just as they were praising low fat. There is a strong genetic predisposition for obesity, which is very difficult to avoid if you have that gene. Obesity is either genetically inherited from the grand parents, or simply eating more than a person is supposed to, no matter what they are eating. This goes back to the super size junk and people not realizing the extra calories they eat in a day. Also, obesity is a big risk for insulin resistence but I haven't heard that it works the other way around.

prometheus
12-28-2003, 03:39 PM
There are cheaper ways to do expensive things. Buy food from your local farmers market, or buy in bulk direct from your local farm. Investigate to find out who supplies the organic produce in your grocery stores and see if you can buy it direct from the farm, or join a co-op. The yearly fee for belonging to a co-op is nothing compared to the money you save.

SweetJade1
12-28-2003, 04:47 PM
Prometheus,
Oh yeah, you are absolutely correct. I'm not advocating that anyone eat such foods, BUT if it helps them feel less paranoid and makes it easier for them to the transition into eating a hormonally healthier diet, I'd rather they did it that way. I eat brown rice and wild rice, but more so white rice because that's what my mom buys. I don't even like the kind she buys and I keep saying I'm going to buy the kind I like, but I haven't yet. There are sooo many types of whole grain rice out there and for those that don't like how they taste....thats why you buy those (organic and gluten free) seasoning mixes so that you can make it taste yummy. =)

The other thing I always tell people is to mention your entire regimen so that they don't think that it was only BC, B5, spiro or diet that cleared you. I haven't taken spiro in a while. It takes around 3 months to start breaking out after you go off of something so we shall see. I don't want to be on spiro and I've taken 1 dose every few weeks, which essentially shouldn't do anything for my hormones. I keep it around because I don't want my body hair to grow back, but even though I'm not taking it now, it seems to have fallen out a bit more. I'm torn, but what I can say is that I've never been 100% dedicated to taking spiro once I learned that it wasn't the answer for clear skin nor did it help my hair (on my head) grow. What it did do was lessen my oil production, cysts, and reduce my mild hirsutism. My diet, did an even greater job, so I don't know what I should do. Others followed a similar diet and also achieved 95% or greater clarity while taking no medications or supplements. Theoretically the better my diet, the less of an issue that will be, but I figure if I can't control my body hair through diet or supps, I'll find a way to make tons of money and laser it off. ;-)

Ha ha and that reminded me of the other reason I want to perfect my diet, I don't want to rely on (our unjust) health insurance, prescriptions, or lots of supplements to acheive these results or to treat some other health problems that I may end up with (I'd prefer alternative meds first). Then again, what happens if something went wrong with our food supply? Hmm...we either go back to drugs...or we start farming and bartering ourselves. Hmm, What to do...

Take care

arlo
12-29-2003, 01:05 AM
@SJ - cheerz! Seeings as rice is a grain though, and laden with carbs, how is it different to consuming whole wheat bread or pasta? Should I go for brown rice instead? I dont care what I eat, as long as it is something that doesnt taste like crap and that I can have a lot of without feeling guilty! If rice does the job then it sounds ideal.

prometheus
12-29-2003, 02:41 AM
Sweetjade, I'm happy to see alternative treatments making their way into the mainstream as integrative medicine. Prevention is the best medicine really. Anything else is a bit of a gamble, with a lot at stake. In the event that our food supply is damaged? We do the best we can with what we have and trust God. The people on the similar diet were following a more strict version? A change in diet is what cleared me and changed my whole life really. Everything else stopped working, but I couldn't have done it without God and Jesus.

SweetJade1
12-29-2003, 04:17 AM
So Sweetjade,
You eat ice cream and mcdonalds??!! I guess you've said in your posts before that you pretty much just avoid gluten, soda, bananas, and cherries... I get confused between you and those who dont eat ANYTHING refined (sugars, other processed foods, etc). Don't get me wrong, I think that those people who avoid all hydrogenated oils, and refined stuff are eating very healthy, but i'd rather have the things I MUST eliminate be at a minimum, because even though I'd like to eat that healthy, it's nice to not have to be TOTALLY paranoid about everything. Anyway, I know that it's individual and I have to figure out for myself what I need to avoid, but your little trip to Mickey D's gives me hope (although the fast food industry plays a large part in influencing the food industry, so I'm somewhat opposed, but that's another story...)
The only thing that confuses me about the whole diet issue, is whether the key is controlling blood sugar or if it's more a food sensitivity thing. Because avoiding gluten is not the same as eating a low carb diet. And it seems that people have reported that both have worked...
Maybe people who were on a low carb diet were actually just avoiding gluten without realizing it...

Erica and Arlo,
LOL, I understand that it can get quite confusing. I suppose you can look at our diets and the reasons they work, in terms of Carbs, in various ways. At one point even I was looking at it in the same terms as you. That the reason these Low Carb diets were working was because they were eliminating the problematic grains, yet I know that too much sugar in itself bothers me to. Regardless, what I can say is that eating a Gluten Free diet is automatically a LOWER in Carb diet than what we are used to eating. Plus, if you only choose to eat Rice and Corn Grains and not the substitutes, then you've reduced your carbohydrate intake significantly, despite both of these being starches (especially if white)! =)

That's where I am at. I consume, usually refined at that, Rice, Corn, and/or Potato on a daily basis. However, I don't eat white rice or even whole grain rice on a daily basis. I tend to eat more corn or potato products, more so than I do rice. I suggest that if you can afford it, eat Whole Grains and Non-Refined, especially if you intend to consume rice on a daily basis. I'm capable of "getting away with it," but I'm not doing it everyday, so who knows what would happen if I did so.

We all have varying degrees of sensitivity and you may find that you are able to eat more "bad" foods, even though we know we should eat the best we possibly can. My trip to Burger King (he he...not McDonalds) was actually not a bad thing. I wasn't thrilled about eating a larger size than I wanted so I visited their website. I had a slight suspicion that their fries were covered in flour and it turned out that they use Rice Flour! Cool. Also, their French Fries contained only Partially Hydrogenated Soybean oil, and the rest of the oils, etc were normal & safe AND they didn't even have a bad preservative in it. Yes while they both contain weird chemicals, McDonald's French Fries (taste better) contain a bad Preservative, not to mention some highly allergenic Oils (may contain partially hydrogenated soybean oil and/or partially hydrogenated corn oil and/or partially hydrogenated canola oil and/or cottonseed oil and/or sunflower oil and/or corn oil). What on earth is someone with an allergy supposed to do??? Obviously not eat there when they can't decide which oil to fry their food in for the day. Sigh...I guess the good thing is that you can print out a list of Gluten Free Items from their website.

Now, in terms of hope, you could have more hope than I do ;-) I usually don't drink anything but water, especially when eating out. When I eat Fast Food I eat French Fries (if they look unbattered), Baked Chicken, Flavored Chicken Wings, Soups, Stews, Chilis (that look clear--means no flour), Tacos, Taquitos, Fajitas (no wheat tortilla shell), Tamales (corn wrapped beef or chicken), Taco Bell's Rice Bowls, certain types of Chinese, Japanese, & Korean Foods (I try not to use their soy sauce) Veggie Sticks, and Fruit Bowls. Wild Rice, Chedder & Broccolli Cassarole, Vegetable medleys, Mashed potatos, rosemary potatos, hashbrowns, mushrooms, omelets, Eggs, ham, bacon, sausage, Skillet Meals, Pork Chops, Ribs, Steaks, Grilled Fish, Chicken, Shrimp, etc at Resturants. Of course I order salads without the croutons at a resturant and fast food joints, but when it's at a sandwich shop, I just have them make my "sandwich" into a salad instead...yum. So, is that enough Freedom for ya?

prometheus
12-29-2003, 12:12 PM
Personally, I eat a high carbohydrate diet from vegetables, fruits, seeds, nuts, and small amounts of gluten free, unrefined, grains. There are some days that I don't eat meat products at all.

prometheus
12-29-2003, 01:00 PM
here is a gluten containing bread that I can eat, as well as gluten free, egg free, unrefined sugar free, hydrogenated oil free, weird stuff free breads: ""And take for yourself wheat, barley, beans, lentils, millet, and fitches (spelt); put them into one vessel, and make bread of them for yourself"Ezek 4:9 KJ Version

It is something about the combination. There are companies that make this bread. It is called "Ezekial bread." What Ezekial actually made was something more of a cake. Sprouted grain bread is the best if you can find it. It should be stored in the freezer where you buy it as all bread should, really. Also Spelt doesn't seem to give me a problem, digestive wise or acne wise. I only eat these on occassion, but i think most people can eat these if they are not celiacs. I have even heard of some celiacs being able to eat spelt. Which is interesting because it was given as a divine revelation to a nun. Of course, I don't think it will help heal anyones acne, though, unless they adopt a better diet overall. I've seen some spelt bread with some pretty nasty ingredients.

I think that is where we differ on this thread, Sweetjade. I don't think saying people can eat these foods because you can will ease them into a hormonally better diet, especially when you know that the people you helped clear to 95% with diet were following a more strict version. You advocate small changes, and so do I, but I think people need to know that they have to change their diet to a certain point in order to completely heal, through diet. Or even for the possibility of seeing any results at all!! If they think it is ok to eat white rice or french fries, they might think they are eating right for their acne and when it doesn't work they will be disappointed and give up eating "healthy" altogether, saying that diet didn't do anything for them, when in actuality it would have if they knew that they needed to progress past that.

I can tell you atleast from my personal experience that eating white rice and french fries would put me right back where I started.

SweetJade1
12-29-2003, 02:26 PM
Prometheus,
The people that followed a Gluten Free diet achieved 95% - 99% clear skin with no prescriptions and usually with no supplements (some had fish oils), maybe even some got 100% clear.

Then there are those that followed a much stricter diet, Paleo Diet or Evil Lectin Free diet and achieved 100% clear skin.

You can't tell people that are 12 and 15 NOT to eat certain foods when that is ALL some of them have access too. You cant tell them you have to follow this diet 100%, especially when it means they will have to prepare their own foods 90% of the time. Some people have the capabilities to do so and will achieve much FASTER results, but others don't. They rely on their parents and the school system to provide their meals and that's not a highly realistic thing to ask of them. Now, I would have done what I could at 12 and 13 because I WANTED my acne to GO AWAY ;-) However a lot of people on this board like to stress out and, for some reason, feel paranoid and I think there's just gotta be easier way for them than that (come up with a 1 step or 3 step program?). Otherwise, they will feel overwhelmed and give up or not even try at all. Now maybe it only gets them 95% clear or 99% clear, but that is better than where they were before. Then once they see the results and most should, they'll want to improve their diet even more so, not just for clear skin, but hopefully for Ultimate Health. Or maybe they will look to supplements to help them so that they can eat what few bad foods they still have left in their diet.

Yes, I personally think we should all eat perfectly....but this isn't a perfect world and that's not going to happen for most of us overnight. The food Industry, our finances, or our resources don't allow for the average person to eat right 100% of the time. Yet we can change that, we can petition, and we can ask our grocery stores to provide more Whole, Organic and Gluten free products =)

In terms of your spelt, indeed it is a form of wheat. While you don't have acne, I've heard of others consuming spelt and yet they still have some acne. Then again, it could be because they still have some refined/processed foods in their diet too. What I know is that Ezekial bread is sprouted bread and that's different. Just as we do not digest legumes/beans (bacteria in our gut does) perhaps NONE of us are capable of digesting gluten proteins (which is why there are celiacs). Yet, some celiacs and others have found that if they eat Sprouted Grains (and sprouted beans) that because the protein has been altered, it's no longer a problem. However, I wouldn't reccomend anyone buying their own sprouts because it's easier for bacteria to grow in the water among the grains & beans that were soaking and they may not have been cleaned properly.

Also, why does it bother you that I say I eat white rice? Why does it bother you that I say I eat potatos? You consume spelt...that's gluten. I'm aware and that's your decision. I guess it's because for you, it was a MUST to avoid, just as I know for me, Gluten is a must to avoid. I believe you mentioned that even then you can't really eat gluten foods unless its only once a month, right? So most definately, MODERATION is the key in whatever form you choose to "break the rules"...if you break the rules. I'm not telling them to eat white rice every day. I'm not telling them to eat tons of protein everyday. Just like you, I have days where all I eat is fruits and veggies and days where I have no desire to eat meat at all. They asked what I eat or if it's possible to eat "such and such" and based on myself and others...it is. May not be perfect for everyone, but it's better than not doing anything at all. Of course, I agree 100% that if they don't eliminate the major factor, which for me was Gluten, they MAY not see a difference in other foods they try to eliminate, cuz I certainly didn't. I HAD to eliminate Gluten and the rest started to fall into place.

Take care you =)

prometheus
12-29-2003, 03:03 PM
Ah Sweetjade, it doesn't bother me that you eat these foods, just that you say other people can eat them on the acne friendly food forum. Especially since you know that white rice isn't an acne friendly food and you wouldn't advocate it, as you said in a later post. It just seems like you are advocating french fries and white rice by telling people you eat them and you are mostly clear. And I see the dreaded reaction in the replies "wait so you are saying I can eat at mcdonalds!" *sighs* I know that I wouldn't be mostly clear eating white rice and fries, or be hormonally balanced and I know I wouldn't be mostly clear on just a gluten free diet. I think people need to know that. People won't get paranoid if they aren't confused. People won't get overwhelmed by the whole truth, especially if they know they can take their time, The thing is, they need to know the exact whole truth so that they don't get discouraged or confused along the way. What overwhelms people is not a lot of information but confusion and this stuff here creates confusion. Confusion when expectations are let down. Confusion when stuff doesn't work. Confusion when they are misled. And I don't believe in all this "can't" nonsense. Regardless or whether or not they can't do this, people need to know they have a choice, that the option is there, so that they can make the choice when they can do it. This is where parental guidance comes in to play. I speak mostly to the adults here, because I am an adult, and I suffered from adult acne for reasons like nutrient deficiency, PCOS, insulin resistence, and hormonal imbalance. I healed my acne from information that other people use to heal their acne and people need to know exactly everything, especially on threads seeking acne friendly food fare.

Peace

Out of curiousity, these people following the gluten-free only diet, what exactly did they cut out? Did they replace their gluten containing grains with things like white rice, still eating the same amount or did they get rid of grains altogether? What were the rest of their diets like? Because I can think of a really acne promoting, unhealthy diet that, nevertheless, avoids gluten. Do you think something like that would heal acne or make people mostly clear?

prometheus
12-29-2003, 03:16 PM
Dr. Roy Walford stated in "The Anti-Aging Plan", pg 7:"Two Biospherians had severe acne on entering Biosphere 2. This cleared rapidly on the Biosphere diet."

The biosphere diet was made up of low caloric, nutrient rich foods, that they grew themselves (think organic), comprised of mostly vegetables and unrefined grains.

"Basically it is what you would assume is a very wholesome diet -- a whole lot of vegetables, some fruits, whole grains, a little bit of meat. It's not that mysterious."

For more information, look for the article "The calorically restricted low-fat, nutrient-dense diet in biosphere 2 significantly lowers blood glucose, total leukocyte count, cholesterol, and blood pressure in humans" Walford, RS., Harris, SB., Gunion, MW. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 1992;89:11533-11537.

or his book. This is an excerpt from my e mails and is not copyrighted or from a commercial website. Obviously, you couldn't bodybuild on a low calorie diet, but the relevance here is apparent in what this diet does not include and what it does promote:

"I'm glad you asked about this because I hadn't heard about it. My student,
Chin-Ling was good enough to research CRAN for me. At first I thought it might
be yet another high protein, low carb diet. However, it is actually a sound,
low fat, low calorie, nutrient dense plan. Something we all could benefit
from!

CRAN - (Calorie Restrictive with Adequate Nutrients)is an eating plan that can
be used as a weight loss program or as a nutritious enhancement of one's
current diet. It is an eating plan based on the preliminary findings of
Professor Roy Walford of the Univ. of California, L.A.
He and 7 other subjects spent two years in a giant, hermetically sealed
greenhouse - known as Biosphere Two - in the Arizona desert. They all lived on
limited, but high nutritious, rations. Findings of the study suggested that
many people may be able to extend their lives by eating smaller amounts of
food - however, that food should meet at least 100% of the RDA for all
vitamins and minerals (based on the Food Guide Pyramid). To initiate this
diet, the first step an average adult should do is to have a high quality diet
devised for their needs. The next step is to eat less, don't eat empty
calories (foods that have little or no nutritional value), and choose a diet
high in nutritional value and low in calories. "

SweetJade1
12-29-2003, 06:42 PM
Of course, we both agree and both understand that all of these different diets create problems and confusion. I believe Karl said something similar to the lines of "while a one size fits all diet may be hard for some to follow, it would be easir to understand." Except....I'm aware of at least 2 or 3 good diets that get people 100% clear and they vary in the foods to eliminate. So it's hard for me to tell people what they should do, especially without knowing their background. Most people on here just want their acne gone, others are aiming for ultimate health and hormonal balance.

So looking at this purely from a scientific standpoint and based on what I've found that can increase our Insulin and/or IGF-1 levels, as well as deactive enzymes, we all should be eliminating:

Refined/Processed Foods - (If it's not naturally white, it's been stripped and has no real nutritional value)

Soft Drinks & non-100% fruit juices

Sugar (use Brown Sugar, or Honey, or none)

Candy (dark chocolate should be ok)

Grains (eat Whole Grains, Gluten-Free Grains, OR no Grains)

Dairy - (eat Organic or No Dairy)

Protein - (carbohydrate intake should be higher than protein intake)

Bad Oils - Hydrogenated/Partially Hydrogenated/ Trans Fats, and Polyunsaturated Fats

Misc. Chemicals: MSG (Monosodium Glutamate) and Bad Preservatives


Additional Options: in case you've still got some cystic acne
Legumes/Beans - peanuts & cashews

Fruits - Bananas, or High Glycemic Load

Fruit Juices - be aware of 100% fruit juices made from concentrates

Nightshades - White Potatos, ALL Peppers, Chili peppers, Tomatos, Eggplant


So those are the rules. Like that saying goes, "you can't break the rules, until you know them". Well, I think that pretty much combines what I've got, except for the Perricone Acne Prescription Diet. I can't really find a reason for the fruits he has listed for us to avoid, except for Bananas. So, what else should we add? ;-)

prometheus
12-29-2003, 10:03 PM
If we really wanted to make it simple we'd say: steam cooked fresh vegetables (with the exception of White Potatos, ALL Peppers, Chili peppers, Tomatos, Eggplant) basically choosing the most nutritious vegetables you can such as dark leafy greens and broccoli, low glycemic fresh fruits, avoiding bananas or certain ones you feel make you break out (best choice blueberries or blackberries), raw nuts (with the exception of peanuts and cashews), raw seeds, small amounts of organic meat (best choice salmon), and NOTHING ELSE, except water or lemon water or herbal teas or home-made fruit and vegetable juices with nothing added.

When you are clear, which you will be, then you can experiment. Everything I listed above are acne friendly foods that you can eat in bulk.

After you are clear and you begin experimenting, I'd suggest experimenting with organic goat milk over organic dairy cow milk. Experiment with gluten free grains over gluten containing grains, and spelt over wheat and barley for the gluten containing grains.

AccutaneAvenger
12-29-2003, 10:32 PM
[QUOTE=prometheus](with the exception of White Potatos, ALL Peppers, Chili peppers, Tomatos, Eggplant) QUOTE]

Is there a reason why tomatoes are taboo?

AA

prometheus
12-29-2003, 10:47 PM
I'm not sure. I just added those in because Sweetjade mentioned them. I assume because of enzyme deactivation or lectins.

I know that certain fruits and foods have estrogen activity and certain foods like tomatoes are considered to be liver weakening by chinese medicine.