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rosietee
12-31-2003, 02:48 PM
Have you ever done a taper for someone using 25-30 (hydrocodone 10/ apap 325) a day? How much of a stockpile would that take? It seems like all the tapers I found in searching the board were for much less.

DCV
12-31-2003, 03:12 PM
I sought counsel from my doctor on the taper question. I think it all boils down to what you think you can tolerate, but you have to be real about it and make a plan then stick to it. For me? I got myself down from 20-25 percs per day to about ten in one fell swoop. And ran into the wall so I went to my doctor and asked him to help me the rest of the way. I told him I'd been taking ten a day and he put me on six a day for two weeks, then four a day for a month I did that for almost three weeks and felt strong enough to go for it on my own. I have had only two percs in seven days and I have 15 left, with another doctor appointment on Jan 6 at which time, I may tell him I don't want anymore. Plus, I flushed sixty percocets down the toilet that I had stockpiled, so, you got to be real about this and I'm not an expert but thats what I did. There are lots of people here who can give more experienced advise.

Philster2003
12-31-2003, 03:15 PM
Rosie;

I may be able to help if a taper is the way you want to go. Can you provide some information for me. You take 25-30 per day. What strength (5, 7.5 or 10mg) what time interval do you take them, every 4 hrs, 6 hrs, 12 hrs or all at once or whenever you need them?

A good slow taper (5-10% reduction) may take about 45-60 days but it would minimize the withdrawal you may feel in the taper.

I can work a schedule I would think so lets see what we can do with the info you can provide. I may need to ask more clarifying questions, maybe not but we have a start donít we? Iím so glad you want to take a positive direction with your addiction and life, you will be rewarded. You sound to be a lovely wonderful person who deserves the rewards of pill free so lets see if we can position you for success.

Oh I forgot to add that a taper program takes real commitment and strength. You can't cheat it or you cheat yourself out of success. It is not for the weak of heart I will say so we all know what taper is all about. I've told this to many here, some can make it many have trouble, thus the need for Suboxone for Methadone. You can do it, many have and many have not but I always say you are stronger then you think and if you have a goal that will help. I sense you have a goal from reading what you wrote.

Talk with you soon

phil

rosietee
12-31-2003, 03:44 PM
Bless you for your quick response, Phil. I am taking the 10 mgs hydrocodone. Today I have already taken 15. I only take them during the day, and take ambien for sleep at night, with an occasional benzo when I try to taper. I know I can only taper with my husband helping me and I will need to tell him. Whenever I start the waking schedule thing I end up upping my dosage and running out. I was thinking if I can at least taper down some I could go into a subutex program later? I know I have to do the waking thing with the taper, but we don't get much sleep with a 1 and 2 year old anyway. I am so grateful for the support from this board. It is so hard for me to go anywhere and our finances are limited (partially due to my fault). Thanks again, Rose

Philster2003
12-31-2003, 06:41 PM
OK Rosie here is the plan, if it does not make sense or you have more questions please ask away OK?
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You will need an interval timer like a kitchen timer or medication timer. The Timex Iron Man watch has auto repeat interval timer built in. In this taper the time between doses is increased each day with occasional dose adjustments. You really have to make sure you hit the times dead on thus the need for the timer. You have to wake yourself up in the middle of the night. (you can buy a pill cutter at your pharmacy or grocery pharmacy area)

OK this plan will take aprox. 380 10mg pills.(about 140 more then you currently have) We can go faster to reduce the number of pills and time if you want to take this faster and at a steeper rate (may mean more withdrawal symptoms)

Initial dose, 3 pills each interval day interval

Day 1 3:00 hrs. (24 pills per day)
2 3:15
3 3:30
4 3:45
5 4:00 (18 pills per day - 25% reduction)
6 4:20
7 4:40
8 5:00
9 5:20
10 5:40
11 6:00 (12 pills per day - 50% reduction)

now reduce the dose to 1.5 pills at each interval and do days 12-22 having a 75% reduction at the end of 22 days and only taking 6 pills per day

12 3:00 hrs. (12 pills per day)
13 3:15
14 3:30
15 3:45
16 4:00 (9 pills per day - 25% reduction, 62.5% overall reduction from start)
17 4:20
18 4:40
19 5:00
20 5:20
21 5:40
22 6:00 (6 pills per day - 50% reduction, 75% overall reduction from start)

now reduce the dose to 1 pill at each interval and do days 23-33. At the end of the third period you will be down to 3 pills per day and 87.5% reduction.

23 4:00 hrs. (6 pills per day)
24 4:20
25 4:40
26 5:00
27 5:20
28 5:40
29 6:00 (4 pills per day - 33% reduction, 83% overall reduction from start)
30 6:20
31 6:40
32 7:00
33 7:20
34 7:40
35 8:00 (3 pills per day - 50% reduction, 87.5% overall reduction from start)



now reduce the dose to 1/2 pill at each interval and do days 36-48. At the end of the third period you will be down to 2 pills per day and 94% reduction

36 4:00 hrs. (3 pills per day)
37 4:20
38 4:40
39 5:00
40 5:20
41 5:40
42 6:00 (2 pills per day - 33% reduction, 92% overall reduction from start)
43 6:20
44 6:40
45 7:00
46 7:20
47 7:40
48 8:00 (1.5 pills per day - 50% reduction, 94% overall reduction from start)

for the final taper down, take 1/4 pill taking the interval from 6 hours to 12 hours by 1/2 hour increment a day.

49 4:00 (1.5 pills per day)
50 4:30
51 5:00
52 5:30
53 6:00 (1 pill per day - 33% reduction, 96% overall reduction from start)
54 6:30
55 7:00
56 7:30
57 8:00
58 8:30
59 9:00
60 9:30
61 10:00
62 10:30
63 11:00
64 11:30
64 12:00 (.5 pill per day - 66% reduction, 98% overall reduction from start)

DONE

phil

rosietee
12-31-2003, 08:21 PM
Bless your heart for your quick help. I am going to figure out if I will be able to get enough (I think I can) and will let you know. I know it will take alot of discipline and definitely coming clean with my husband. If I can't do it I am ready to try the subutex program, but I want to give it a shot. I should probably start a new thread for this, but--if anyone reads this--does anyone have any ideas on spilling the beans? Seems like new year's day is as good a day as any. We were just planning on watching football all day.

thanks so much,
Rose

Philster2003
01-01-2004, 07:41 AM
Rosie;

Iím glad to be of help to you. So a few thoughts for you this fine New Years day; 1st if it was me before I decided to tackle a taper program I would decide if that is truly the route you want to take, or should I just go straight to Sub or Methadone? I would not go part way with taper then switch to Sub, Iíd either do the taper only or Sub only, not a mix. Each has it's overhead so to speak so carefully weigh each, this board has enough info on both so you should be well informed ahead to make your choice.

As for the hubby, I would be very open and up front. Honesty I have found is the best policy, plus most of have terrible guilt associated with our addiction so this of in its self will be healing. I was with my wife and kids (girls 17 & 20 now but 15 & 18 when I told them) If it happened to me it can happen to anyone. I would have been the least suspected of getting caught in this addiction deal. So I would just tell the hubby how much you love him and your children and how all it started and progressed to helping you try to be a super mom and super person to friends and family. It's far more impressive that you, on your own, recognize your issue and are willing to take the necessary steps to correct the problem. That you know that what you are doing is in the best interest for you and your family in the scheme of the big picture. Tell him that you need his help unlike ever before in your relationship. With his experience with his own father he should be very understanding. You donít have to broadcast to the world you addiction, get it straight between you and your hub and then plan the attack to freedom.

We all fall Rosie, all of us at one time or another. This is not a character flaw, this is life. A great football coach by the name of Vince Lombardi said about desire "It's not whether you get knocked down, it's whether you get up." Well your down but your getting up Rosie. So use every possible means to accomplish your goal and that includes the love of your family and hubby.

Hope that helps

phil

rosietee
01-02-2004, 04:26 PM
Phil, thank you so much for your input. The Vince Lombardi quote is a great one, and maybe I can use that one with my husband because he loves football and coached kids before we had our 2 babies. Also I read your story above and appreciate your sharing. Mine was a very similar progression, though different circumstances. I really think this board is going to help me save my life.

John 808
01-02-2004, 05:48 PM
Rosie,

I posted to you on your other thread and said the same thing as Phil- if you taper, you may not want to get on the sub. If you are going to get on the sub, do so now and do not waste your time with the taper!!

Michelle

rosietee
01-02-2004, 06:44 PM
I keep telling myself that maybe I can come clean without having to tell anyone. I could technically taper without anyone knowing, whereas, if I go to the sub clinic wouldn't I have to have someone drive me in the state of withdrawal? Now I have a schedule and no excuse not to begin, so long as I can obtain enough to last through the entire schedule. Fact is, I know my recovery will be better ensured by telling my husband. Also, I need his help in taking care of myself. I devote everything to my kids. I need to run again and do yoga at night in order to center myself.

Rose