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View Full Version : Michael,goddesgirl,agentalias..sub users..Question??


Baseball65
11-08-2004, 12:02 PM
I know this is a battered topic,but here goes again.

This is my 13th day on sub.I was really sick off and on in the early going.Started at 24 mgs,and kept backing off,changing schedule(farther apart,lower doses) in spite of Drs. insistence to stay at a high dose.

On Friday I switched from subutex to suboxone and was told to take 16mgs a day ,and that I would feel tons better.

Well,at first I did 12mgs...doing 4 in the morning and 8 at night.
Friday,and saturday
Yesterday I was feelin' a little jonesy in the PM so I actually took his recommended dose of 16 for the day (4am 4 lunch 8pm)

I felt great when I woke up this AM...did my 4mgs...and then promptly puked!

I ,except for my stomach,feel fine i.e. mentally,head wise but I don't want to go out in public with this rather attractive green tint to my skin(LOL!)

I have really important business stuff I keep putting off until I stabilize
(those music publishers get really bummed when you puke on their desk....and looking green doesn't improve your odds any)

I'm on day 13....shouldn't I be on a waaaaaaay lower dose by now?????
Please respond...I know what My Md will say...he'll blame it on not taking enough!!
It seems like the less I take the better I feel.

anyhelpwouldbeappreciated
--Baseball

goddessgrl65
11-09-2004, 05:23 AM
Hi Baseball-
Good to hear from you-i know the beginning is tough-and you are right less is more.
I was down to about 10 mgs in one dose by the second week-
Try a little less in the am-and see how you feel-also the cravings will dissapate but it takes about a month to stabilise.
Talk to the doctor-but try one dose in the morning-and from everything ive read and my own experience-LESS IS MORE!
I did feel icky for a couple weeks..it gets better-experiment in the lower doses-you won't hurt yourself-everyone is differant..
hope all goes well-w/ the music stuff(whatcha doing?)-been working on new stuff myself-miss it so much..
Goddess Bless..
ggrl

Baseball65
11-09-2004, 07:24 AM
Hi G-girl.
Thanks for responding.Yuchhhhh what a day.
After feeling that sick I only took another 4 mgs(8 total for the day) and was AOK the rest of the day,after the nausea subsided.
I think what made it worse is,I was sick on another med from another MD the whole week before I went to the sub MD,so it feels like I've been in bed for a Month!!
I'm not working on anything except getting out of this house :blob_fire LOL!

However,My best LA commection set up a meeting with a Nashville Publisher/Record co. owner,and I'm supposed to be setting up a meeting,but my biggest fear is him saying "How about tomorrow?"...Uhhhh....UHHHHhh
sure :eek: "By the way,I'm a dope fiend on a new maintainance drug...don't mind my twitching an clutching my stomach...it's an artist thing...can you cut me a big advance check...mt sub Dr. only takes cash"

:jester: You know what I mean...

Thanks for chiming in.I think I was definitely on toooooooo much

-Peace
----Baseball

goddessgrl65
11-11-2004, 07:29 AM
Just checkin in Baseball-
Hey i just realised were both.."65"..its a rocknroll soundin'yr..Beatles '65..
I hope you get something going w/ that publisher..i am still connected to Warner-chappell-(publishers)..i get my royalty check every 6 months-(its not alot-but its a reminder that im a songwriter..AAAh...yes..the days before i fell.
And its interesting-cos they list where/who/records-or plays your music..and there are actually new bands diggin' out some of my songs-and playing/recording them.
I want to do some new stuff-but can't seem to focus-i got new ideas-but nothing chronicled..got to do some 4-trking.
Love lo-fi stuff-
Anyways-wanted to see how your feeling today..any better?
I hope you are-getting stabilised-and i wish you the best-
rock on..
ggrl
ps..Blinker the star..great new(er) band-new record is incrediable

Baseball65
11-11-2004, 08:13 AM
It happened AGAIN!!!

Just like Murphy's law...I had one good day( went 2-2-2-2) on dosing on Wednesday..I felt great so I called the publisher/Label owner for a meeting.
Of course he said "Great..Come in tomorrow afternoon" (My biggest fear..the very next day)
Sooo.I took 4mg in the AM (My doc wanted it this way) and WHAM!! totally nauseous,ready to heave...I ran and refilled my phenergan scrip..came home to burn custom CD's for the guy and WHAM the ink runs out of my BRAND NEW INK CARTIDGES!!!!!. --
-
--
--
=-- - =-= -=
-=-= -=- ==- -= ==- --=
-=- ==-= = - - --- - - - ----_-___-__-__-
So.,I managed to keep it together and get thru the meeting...I just turned my cruddy feelings inward and avoided talking too much,saying too much.
Godwas with me...HE apologized to me..He had the FLU..you know how when you feel like crap,you never notice anyone else..Thank HEAVEN!!
anyways...thanks for checking..I'll look up that band.
I haven't picked up a guitar since the night before I went in to the clinic.......my booker was sympathetic.her brother died of an oxy overdose.
The Nashville scene is not conducive or oriented towards dope like the LA scene was...I really don't like drinking that much(LOL!)

_--___--_______---_--_-_-____--_-_-Baseball

goddessgrl65
11-12-2004, 05:35 AM
AAh yes-Murphys law-
you mean-like i got up the other morning and someone trashed my brand new car????Smashed the crap out of it and left-taking out the drivers side door!

I get it!So-im concerned about your reaction to the sub-why are you so nauseated?Its been a couple weeks-im trying to think back-yes-i remember-i did feel kinda crappy for a few weeks-but no heave-ho!
Its got to settle in soon-i really hope this works for you-
im getting ready for therapy..9:00 am today..early morning..session..
Its my second appt-w/ my new therapist-shes actually very interesting-and up!
so...gotta drink coffee till im annihilated and blab-
I hope this music publishing deal works out for you-get a good lawyer!
peace.
ggrl

Banker
11-13-2004, 05:59 AM
:) Hello. I Goddesgrl... I've missed you. Tell me how you are doing... how much are you on, if at all anymore?

Baseball 65 --- How much were you taking before the Sub and what was it? I believe you are still taking too much.... if I took too much, I would feel nauseated... maybe you are one of the lucky ones and really only need around 4 total... seriously, there are people that only take 2 mgs a day and are fine. Remember, they make the 2 mg pill for a reason. I think you are still taking too much so try to drop it down again. But unless you were in oxy or methadone, I don't know why you would still be feeling such strong wds...??? I don't think you've been on it long enough to be dependant on it??? Anyway, are you going to stay on it for a long time or what is your plan? And I'm very happy that you decided to get help. Congrats on saving your life!!

Baseball65
11-13-2004, 07:22 AM
Hi Banker.
Yes,yes YEAHHHHHHH!!! :bouncing:

No,but seriously folks...
I dropped down to 8 mgs total per day and I've been feeling really good for 3 days in a row :)

It's backwards thinking for a bakwards drug....I actually took 2 mgs extra last night because I was in mental anguish and thought it might be the drug......felt worse!!

No,lower doses are definitely the way to go.Thank all of you guys sooo much for all the support you've given me.

In fact,I might try to drop that dose down to 6 mgs next week.....

I had to keep dropping doses until I went into mild Wd's again...than the stuff worked great.

I'm going to check each week and see if I'm ready to drop.....I've been on another groups site and all of them are on 24-32 and they all complain of being sleepy,headachy...They were also much harder users than I.

I think when I get to 4 or 2 is when I'll just cruise...I'm going to ask my MD for the lower strngth pills...easier to break up.

Thank youOOOOO!!

Baseball

goddessgrl65
11-13-2004, 07:47 AM
BANKER-
I miss ya girl!
Its been a while-so lets play catch up!
You must be doing well-busy-etc..i miss your posts-i haven't been on the boards as much-but started posting again-
Im still on 3/4 mgs-doctor is not pushing dosage change-right now-Fall/Winter is my "relapse" season-and im just not ready to stop yet-the holidays-etc..ive been researching suboxone w/d stories lately-and its getting me a bit freaked out-my impending detox-and my fear of relapse.
Its only been a year-its just not enough time..i was addicted for 8 yrs-undoing years of behaviors in 12 months-doesn't make sense.
So-i started work w/ my new therapist-who is really fantastic-we went over 1/2 hr..yesterday-no pushing you out the door-really compassionate-great dr..im blessed to have her-i need to keep going-to prepare for the w/d and to keep progressing.
Its snowing!!Its winter/here today..so pretty-makes me want to xmas shop..
My new car got hit/run-4,000.00 in damages-so sad-my first new vehicle in yrs-but i coped-when i was using and there was a car issue(and there were many)..oh the despair/insanity-the $$$-etc..its interesting-im just becoming acutely aware of how chaotic my life was-when i was active-its a differant life now.
Im sure you feel the same-in some respects-a year off the drugs gives you perspective-and im sure your life is alot more calm-now.
I know you got younger kids-so your a busy mom-How are they doing?
Have you been dating anyone you really like?How is the weight issue?
Still-struggling w/ that one..i lose 5 lbs-gain it back etc..
I started my exercise program again-istopped for a couple months-i was really sore the first few days-but im feeling stronger-
I don't know-im almost getting used to this body-i got a feeling when i come off it-the weight will drop off-it just kicks up the sweet tooth/carbs..
Whats more important-my vanity-or my mental health-?
Id rather have the xtra weight than be strung out or losing my mind-so its pick your battles!
I joined weight watchers-but blew it off-stupid me!Can't seem to get w/ it-i did lose weight-but then binged it back-
I guess i got to just focus-on trying to limit myself-exercise and therapy-and when its time to jump off-ill be prepared-i don't know.I hope.
My son is doing well-i got my tarot cards read on Halloween..by this woman-my sister absoulutely swears by-shes known her for years-WOW!!!
I can't get her words out of my head-she was the real deal/basically-she told me about my relationship..strained to say the least.
That part of my life has been hard-we are at a crossroads..and being off drugs have clarified some serious issues.
Its complex-but im trying to "keep it simple"..(some of those AA slogans really stick)..some of them...are hilarious..especially when you go to a meeting and the catch phrases are strung together..."black belt tongue"..lol..
I haven't done any meeting for quite a while-my pal that i use to go w/ is involved w/ a real "creep"..an AA..zealot-liar/etc..so we haven't hung out in months-she never called me on my b'day..)another one bites the dust).
Oh well-i cleaned house w/ regard to friendships..and it looks like im on my own..pretty much..its cool-
Please write back and give me the news..
I really miss you-and hope that you are doing well-feeling good-
love ya..
ggrl :angel:

Baseball65
11-13-2004, 11:38 AM
Hi...sorry to butt in..
Did you say you are on 3/4mg (three quarters of one milligram per day?)
I was just curious.You seem to be one of the best role models out there,so I was just making sure that wasn't a typo.
Sorry to hear about your car!

About the WD's...I asked my buddy who is a Phd in pharmocology,and I told him all the scary stories I read on the internet about Sub WD's (and re: I did it once before from 8mg/day to zero)
He said the best way to taper off of any drug(he's researched sub,and at my pestering promised to do even more)...he said the best way to taper off a drug is when you decide to,rather than stop on a dime,,,,,,to start taking it at longer intervals..
Like say your at 2 mgs every morning at 8am.Take it at 10 AM the next day,noon the next,2 the next,and keep going in that fashion until your actually skipping whole days...He said in the world of Pharmocology that this is less dreadful.
When I tapered off of Librium,the MD hand wrote a very similar schedule for me,but it was quicker (like 20 days) and I never felt a thing.
I'll follow your lead....when you're going to taper,I'm sure you'll let us all know????
You ,Michael and Brenda are my heroes!!!
Thanks always and for everything

Baseball

goddessgrl65
11-14-2004, 07:42 AM
Hi Baseball-
Thanks so much for your compliments-im blushing..you know all that self esteem rushing to my twisted synapses..lol..
Im on 3 or 4 mgs-not 3/4..it looks that way in the post- sorry..
If im lazy i take 4 mgs-but mostly 3mgs-and its really time to drop to 2 mgs..
Ill go down a half this week-
Thanks so much for the info-about tapering..makes sense-my husband skips days on occassion at 2 mgs-and he does feel kinda ill by late afternoon-but he really has done much better-than myself-w/ dropping down.
Its got to happen-cos the dr. is insistant that i go down now-but will not rush the final tapering-so if i need to hang at 1 mg..i could.For a while.
So glad you held on-and you are feeling better-this **** works..lol-
Freedom..YAY!!! MUSIC..YEAH!!!..living..
It does my heart good-knowing we are cyberpals-the support/the good vibes are real-the info-invaluable..im really excited for you-
Its really changed my world-and although its taken almost a yr..the creativity is coming back-my poet soul-my love of nature-music/i can feel again-
GoddessBless us all-
your friend-
ggrl :angel:

Brenda1231
11-14-2004, 02:11 PM
I can't remember if I posted about my ups and downs with this drug or not. I have been very foggy from the flu...so please forgive.

Baseball...that taper advice that the pharmacist suggested is exactly what I was trying to tell Carol. Where is she btw? Haven't seen anything from her and hope she is well.

There are a few things I have learned about this drug:

If you start at low doses of 2 -4 mgs. you will 'usually' get better results, feel better, it's just a really great feeling of well being that borders on a natural high, but not to be construed as a euphoric opiate high.

If you start at higher doses OR go to higher doses from a small one, that natural high disapates, and one can't seem to get it back. :(
So once you have upped your dose, going back to a lower one will not give you the same effects. It will make you feel better, but the 'high on life' feeling is just not there.

BUT...then again, when analyzed, at least for me; when I took hydro as prescribed, about 5 mgs every 4 hours, I got a nice warm buzz, needed less sleep, and woke ready to take on the day. I could also skip days without any w/d.
When I found online pharms and began taking 20 to 30 mgs at a time, the 'high' was distorted, I crashed after only a few hours of dosing, and found it almost impossible to do ANYTHING in the morning until I dosed up and let it kick in. From there on out, it was nothing but unsuccessfully chasing that elusive initial warm buzz, and keeping the w/d at bay.

I have the flu, and almost got off the sub last week. (<---Kicking myself).
I didn't take it for a few days, and didn't notice any difference, since I was feeling rotten anyway. Well after a few days I decided to try 2 mg to see if it would make me feel better. It didn't, but now I am back to needing 2-4 mg a day. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Anyway, hope you are well and have reduced your dose.
Also, you might try taking it only 2 X's per day (once if you can) that really seems to help as well.

Baseball65
11-14-2004, 02:58 PM
Hi Brenda.

Thanks for all the continuing support.
Yeah,some of those "mistakes" you just warned me about,I already learned the hard way.
Friday night I was really restless,after having been stable(finally :bouncing: ) for 3 days in a row.

I took an extra 2 mgs,and just continued to feel rotten.except now I had a headache too.

Last night(saturday) I was feeling even more "jonesy"....my mind was everywhere except here(in the moment)....so I took a 3rd 4 mg dose for the day....BIG mistake....I was xtra nauseous with a headache to boot.

8 mgs is definitely my dose for the time being!!!

If I can stretch it to where I'm almost in WD's again,that's when it works the best...I take 4mgs in the AM and 4 in the late afternoon....the farther I can go between,the more effective the 2nd dose is.When I was at 8am and 2pm that just wasn't enough time....I went 8 -3:30 today,and I'm going to try to strtch it farther tomorrow.

Thanks again/......no such thing as too much info!!

Peace
Baseball

Brenda1231
11-14-2004, 05:21 PM
Baseball,

I made the same mistake. Only I was feeling great....so I thought how about another one, and I'll feel even better! Addictive thinking at it's worst! I was prescribed 24 mg a day, and even taking them 2-3 times a day, I don't think I ever went over 12 mg. (for more than a day) .
I am now prescribed 16 mg a day, because I recently admitted to my doc that I wasn't taking the 24 mg.'s. She's not in agreement that 'less is more', so I just keep my dosage to myself, which I try to keep at 2-3 mg in the am only.
Oh, and when I was taking higher dosages, more than 8 mg. a day, I had constant headaches and mild nausea as well. Of course I took more, thinking that the headaches and nausea were from not enough (according to Doc). Once I talked to a few people that are actually taking sub, and they reccomended lowering my dosage, I did so. The headaches and nausea went away immediately.
:)

Baseball65
11-14-2004, 07:20 PM
Hhhhhhaaaaa!
That's exactly what my doc tried to tell me....that I wasn't on enough!I'm supposed to be on 16 a day now.....I'd be in bed nauseous 24/7...
I really like my doc too...I have mixed feelings.I feel like being forthright and honest is imperative to getting away from the lying drug addict in me,yet sometimes I think"oh well...he can kep writing me those scrips,and I'll just squirrel away the others in case I Run out of funds to keep seeing him,or can no longer make the 200 mile drive every month because of work.
I start a new job tomorrow!!

Very similar experiences

Baseball

jessy28
11-21-2004, 08:20 PM
Can I ask what the sub is about? I am a recovering dope fein with three years off the crap but all we had was methadone.

goddessgrl65
11-22-2004, 06:42 AM
Hey jess-
Suboxone is similar to methadone..replacement therapy-but it has antagonist properties-so its an opiate/that works on certain receptors but not others..
You can get it in a drs office/as opposed to a clinic-its a sublingual pill(melt) under the tongue-Voila! zero w/ds-zero cravings-
I was also addicted to H for several yrs..my only way out..of my last relapse..haven't touched a drop in a yr..did have a couple yrs. straight before that last fling.
Its really amazing-cos there are no cravings-also if you use-no high..i tried..didn't work..
hope this informs..
ggrl :angel:

jessy28
11-22-2004, 09:13 AM
So no wd and no cravings huh? Thanks. It is about time they came up with something other than methadone. I have seen on the boards that some people get a little sick. Is that form dope or the meds? That is really good that they came up with something else. But how if it is a opiate could it not make you physically addicted? You keep your head up cuz that crap is hard to beat but it is possible. I was way bad for five years. I was up to 200 mg of meth for almost two years and on crack and pills and booze for the crack and sooo wacked. I am not sure if I am normal but to the rest of the world I am now. I am a honest person, reliable, and very hard working. I pay bills and lead a very normal life three years later. It did not happen over night though. Honestly I was convinced I would be on methadone for the rest of my life. I am even having my first baby and married to recovering addict too. It is way weird.