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cram315
10-02-2006, 03:37 PM
My son drug tested positive in the first step of a two step drug test. We mailed it off to the lab this morning. I believe he tested positive for marijuana, anti depressents (tri something) and methadone (my husband tested him and he isn't here for me to ask, I am going by what my son told me).

He said he took nyquil all weekend, hmmmm, so smart isn't he, padding the excuses already.

He insists methadone doesn't get you high so why would he take it. How the heck do I know, I have never had experiences with these drugs.

Here we go again. He did have a problem awhile back with herion, if you test positive for methadone on these tests does that mean you are using herion again?

Any information would be appreciated.

sad,mum
10-02-2006, 04:24 PM
Paralell lives cram.not having a good time with daughter and after 5 months clean,hang on to the only positive thoughts we have and that is like us smokers we rarely do it 1st time,methadone is a heroin substitute and the purpose is it will stop the w/ds and hold them stable not get them high,but most users welcome the methaone programe because they take their dose which would be acouple of wraps of heroin to make them normal and then it takes less heroin to get them high,the tests i use differenciate between heroin and meth ie.the meth doesnt show but heroin does these are quite cheap from www,agnostics.co.uk,about 1 dollar a test if bought in a pack of 50.keep cool,nightmare with daughter but convincing myself she has to do this to finally realise she can never do drugs again,i have convinced myself in the past that i could only smoke occasionaly,which i am now going to start new thread because i got through day 1.we'll keep them separate,different issues,god bless you all i would never in a million years be able to stop in these conditions,massive hugs,karyn

kim4074
10-02-2006, 04:31 PM
Cram I would recomend doing and internet search for "methadone abuse" some people do take it and it give the euphoric effect and the pills are usually sold for about 20-30/pill. Why was he drinking nyquil. That is also very deadly especially if mixed with other drugs. I have heard of kids drinking it to get the buzz it gives them almost like a downer. In drug and alcohol class the professor put it perfectly..... We are always searching for a better high. I mean who would have thought of picking up a frog and licking its stomach hmm for the acid type high, why in the world would be pick through cow crap to get shrooms to get the high we are always looking for that new high. I would be very concerned about the nyquil and the methadone as both act like a downer if abused. Not to scare you but there has also been an increase in deaths found in the abuse of methadone since it takes awhile for the effects people keep taking them and end up in the hospital. I would take this very seriously no matter what his excuse is. Also people can buy methadone on the street now to avoid w/d's from other drugs I dont mean to scare you but I would search this out. I just did a search for methadone abuse and came up with a few sites. I really hope I am wrong and am praying that I am wrong. Best wishes and I would take this seriously and this can be very dangerous. Thinking of you Kim

sad,mum
10-02-2006, 04:35 PM
Educate youself cram,google any drug and you can become an expert,no hoodwinking then,i have now spent nearly a year on this site and all of the other drug sites and now have a meeting with local government on friday because they want to hear what i have to say,may not help the situation but you feel empowered because you understand,keep posting
ps would love a ciggy,sadmum

Thiswasyourlife
10-03-2006, 02:38 AM
My son drug tested positive in the first step of a two step drug test. We mailed it off to the lab this morning. I believe he tested positive for marijuana, anti depressents (tri something) and methadone (my husband tested him and he isn't here for me to ask, I am going by what my son told me).

He said he took nyquil all weekend, hmmmm, so smart isn't he, padding the excuses already.

He insists methadone doesn't get you high so why would he take it. How the heck do I know, I have never had experiences with these drugs.

Here we go again. He did have a problem awhile back with herion, if you test positive for methadone on these tests does that mean you are using herion again?
Any information would be appreciated.

Cram, I want you to know that I am praying for you. And your son. While I cant answer your questions about what he is taking, he is obviousley searching for some kind of high. I forget, has he been in rehab befor?

Try to have a good day.

Your Friend,
Marilyn:wave:

mpvt
10-03-2006, 12:20 PM
Methadone metabolites are totally different then Heroin metabolites so methadone would not mean it's heroin.He likely has been doing heroin or other opiates and took the methadone to ward off the withdrawls.Your son needs to get professional help asap......Dave

sad,mum
10-03-2006, 02:45 PM
Things are not good here cram she moved out and in with new boyfriend who was her one time dealer,she stopped by today and does not look good,she tested positive for cocaine a few days ago but refuses to give me another test,dignity etc.funny dignity hasnt bothered her the last 5 months,worrying thing is as you know i have become involved with the goverment agencies and they sent me an email today DRUG ALERT,contaminated batch in our area 3 user critical in hospital.Had 2 ciggies today,please dont give up on me tomorrow i will try again but cant post day 2 this is up to you flintrock.
Thank you so much marilyn for the kind words.
Kim my darling this is a blip will be back on track tomorrow.
Where is Mr Wonderdrug,not lurking i hope,post you coward let me know how youre doing.
Cram i feel so sad for us both,cant give you the real thing but a big cyber hug,
love,sadmum

angeleyes0906
10-03-2006, 03:13 PM
methodone is used to control withdrawl from cocaine and other hard core narcs. Marjuania stays in your system for up to 30 days or longer as its a fat stored drug. However just some tid bits every parent should know, an occasional use of marjuania will not test, it has to be repetative and will not test if they say they were with someone and got a contact buzz. Cocaine only tests for 72 hours after exposure, and disapates. If your talking methamphetamines it is different than methazone. And again, only tests like 72 hours. Most prescription pain killers also only test for a short period of time and has to be a high enough dosage to build up enough to test. And over the counter drugs will not test on a drug test.

Most otc kits test for marijuana, cocaine, amphetamines (speed, ridalin,ect), barbituates (depressants like valume, xanax ect), opiates ( pain killers like ultram, lortab, ect), thats it.

Hope this helps!

cram315
10-03-2006, 03:19 PM
We will have lab results by the end of the week. Then we will have a sit down family meeting. Sometimes I cannot believe this is happening to my son... a drug addiction. Does that sound snobbish? I don't mean it to.

He is under the impression that if he keeps his act together during the week, he can let loose on the weekends. I am afraid he is going to kill himself by OD'g.

Sadmum, our kids aren't ready to grow up. Mine is 22. Why did Katey stop by? To talk? You have given her a strong foundation/love over the last five months. Hopefully she will get tired of this new boyfriend and his lifestyle quickly. Is she still working? That may keep her grounded.

I told mine this am if he had money to party, he had money to pay room/board. That got his attention.

Thanks for the suggestions on buying tests on the web. I found one that checks for Cocaine, Marijuana, Heroin, Methamphetamine, and PCP for $17/ea. Or should I stick w/the $36 one that checks for 12 drugs and then you send to the lab to narrow bands down?

MPVT, the test strip said methadone/tri-something (antidepressent). When we get the results back we will know which was in his system. Then a new set of problems because we have answers.

Yes he was in rehab a month, then out of state two months. He is now slowly coming apart at the seams. I think he doesn't see it and thinks he can handle his partying.

He won't go to meetings alone (I forgot what the name of the drug meetings were, can someone post again) and he doesn't like counsellors but you all gave me an idea, family counselling. I will call tomorrow.

kim4074
10-03-2006, 03:33 PM
I am feeling for you guys right now I see things from your point and also the addicts point. The addict beats themselves up just as bad as you guys do when they relapsed and in a moment of clarity they will realize it and will want to get clean again. Its so hard at their age too I could never imagine having to give up all my friends to hang out with new (clean) friends. People who dont know me as well as my old friends I guess. You feel you just have a connection and something in common. If they party then it must be ok to still party and until you can separate yourself from that lifestyle then unfortunatly you might fall right back into the same path of destruction. Both your kids have had some clean time and its hard to change but they will. I think boundries have to be set and stuck too just for your own sanity. You guys are great and wonderful people and caring and loving moms who did the best they could unfortunatly your kids have momentarily fell off track. Dont worry though they can still get clean and want it and hang out with new people who dont use. All the people I used to party with have had kids, quit smoking and dont drink anymore. I'm the only one who still smokes, and goes out now and then and has no kids. HMMMM maybe I should have followed their paths..... So we all learn lessons just in different ways. Some have to learn the hard way and some listen to others who have made mistakes and learn from them. I am a hard learner so there is hope. Just stay strong and keep your own sanity as hard as it may be right now. Children have to make their own mistakes and as hard as it is to let go sometimes you have to. If they know someone will be there to fix their mistakes why bother changing. Dont take that the wrong way as parents thats what we depend on you for, you have done it since we were kids. If I fell down my mom ran right over to pick me up and wipe away my tears. When I had my first broken heart my mom ran right over held me and wiped away my tears. When I was so hungover sleeping next to the toilet she said good I hope you feel like crap and learned a lesson.lol. Hope this helps and thinking of you all. Kim

sad,mum
10-03-2006, 03:34 PM
Do anything cram forget what he wants,if hes worried of shame of the rest of the family knowing then he shouldnt do drugs,wish mine only did weekends shes a 24/7,no work uni anything only drugs,remember a time she was like your son and wish i had been tougher,i too worried about the will they forgive me,hey you are the one who needs to do the forgiving,get really selfish here and call in all the support and resources you need otherwise you are in for the long haul and its not pleasant, i have *****footed for years and look where it got me,sadmum

kim4074
10-03-2006, 03:45 PM
I dont know about the embarassing him unless it close family that know his past. I can tell you everytime my mom embarassed me I can forgive but I cant forget and its a horrible feeling. Might even push him away because of the anger. But you have to do what you need to do and your right they are the ones how need to apologize you did nothing wrong but stand by your kids. Best wishes Kim

Thiswasyourlife
10-03-2006, 04:03 PM
He won't go to meetings alone (I forgot what the name of the drug meetings were, can someone post again) and he doesn't like counsellors but you all gave me an idea, family counselling. I will call tomorrow.

NA meetings.

Proward
10-04-2006, 08:27 AM
Angeleyes0906 said: "methodone is used to control withdrawl from cocaine and other hard core narcs."

This is not correct! I have never heard of Methadone being used to help someone withdrawl from Cocaine, only opiate based drugs.

Methadone has 2 main uses:

* Methadone is a narcotic pain reliever, similar to morphine. Methadone also reduces withdrawal symptoms in people addicted to heroin or other narcotic drugs without causing the "high" associated with the drug addiction.

* Methadone is used as a pain reliever and as part of drug addiction detoxification and maintenance programs.

In a nutshell:
German scientists synthesized methadone during World War II because of a shortage of morphine. Although chemically unlike morphine or heroin, methadone produces many of the same effects. Introduced into the United States in 1947 as an analgesic (Dolophinel), it is primarily used today for the treatment of narcotic addiction. It is available in oral solutions, tablets, and injectable Schedule II formulations, and is almost as effective when administered orally as it is by injection. Methadone's effects can last up to 24 hours, thereby permitting once-a-day oral administration in heroin detoxification and maintenance programs. High-dose methadone can block the effects of heroin, thereby discouraging the continued use of heroin by addicts under treatment with methadone. Chronic administration of methadone results in the development of tolerance and dependence. The withdrawal syndrome develops more slowly and is less severe but more prolonged than that associated with heroin withdrawal. Ironically, methadone used to control narcotic addiction is frequently encountered on the illicit market and has been associated with a number of overdose deaths.

A lot of additional information:

Methadone has a slow metabolism and very high lipid solubility, making it longer lasting than morphine-based drugs. Methadone has a typical half-life of 24-36 hours, permitting the administration only once a day in heroin detoxification and maintenance programs. The most common mode of delivery at a methadone clinic is in an oral solution. Methadone is almost as effective when administered orally as by injection. As with heroin, tolerance and dependence usually develop with repeated doses. Tolerance to the different physiological effects of methadone varies. Tolerance to analgesia usually occurs during the first few weeks of use; whereas with respiratory depression, sedation, and nausea it is seen within approximately 5-7 days. There is no tolerance formed to constipation produced by methadone or other opioids, however, effects may be less severe after time.

Current research shows methadone has a unique affinity for the NMDA (N-methyl-D-aspartic acid) brain receptor. Some researchers propose that NMDA may regulate psychic dependence and tolerance by exhibiting opioid antagonist-like activity. Withdrawal symptoms are generally less acutely severe than those of morphine and heroin at equivalent doses, but are significantly more prolonged.

Opiate addiction
Methadone has traditionally been provided to the addiction population in a highly regulated methadone clinic, generally associated with an outpatient department of a hospital. Clinics such as these stem from programs set up during the Nixon administration to combat heroin use, first in Washington, D.C., then nationwide. In addition to obtaining a daily methadone dose, some who go to this type of clinic for addiction treatment may attend some type of psychological counseling for their addiction. Some are required to attend drug addiction programs but many are not.

Methadone is considered to be generally effective in management of heroin addiction and reduction of HIV rates from needle sharing. There is no evidence that methadone use decreases dangerous sexual behavior, crime, or psychiatric illness nor does it improve family stability or likelihood of employment. At proper dosing, methadone usually reduces the appetite for and need to take heroin. However, some heroin addicts report more difficulty in quitting methadone than heroin. While there is much debate over the treatment schedule and duration required, treatment at a methadone maintenance clinic is intended to be for an indefinite duration. Many factors determine the treatment dose schedule, and some follow the philosophy that methadone maintenance treatment is not curative for heroin addiction.

Chronic pain
In recent years, methadone has gained popularity among physicians for the treatment of other medical problems, such as chronic pain. The increased usage comes as doctors search for an opioid drug that can be dosed less frequently than short-acting drugs like morphine or hydrocodone. Methadone, with its long half-life (and thus long duration of effect) and good oral bioavailability, is a common second-choice drug for pain that doesn't respond to weaker agonists.

Methadone prescribed for chronic pain is also tied to an increasing number of drug overdose deaths in the United States, more than any other prescription narcotic painkiller.

According to the National Center for Health Statistics, as well as a 2006 series in the Charleston (WV) Gazette[5], medical examiners listed methadone as contributing to 2,992 deaths in 2003, up from 790 in 1999. Approximately 82% of those deaths were listed as accidental- and most deaths involved combinations of methadone with other drugs (especially benzodiazepines).

Data confirms a correlation between increased methadone distribution through pharmacy channels and the rise in methadone associated mortality. This supports the hypothesis that the growing use of oral methadone, prescribed and dispensed for the outpatient management of chronic pain (vs. opioid addiction treatment), explains the dramatic increases in methadone consumption and the growing availability of the drug for diversion to abuse.

More information on methadone associated mortality can be found at Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA - U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services).

Worldwide, there has been an explosion of deaths related to methadone. Germany noted that one-half of its deaths due to drugs were caused in whole or in part by methadone. In 1996, more than twice as many people died from methadone than died from heroin in England. This trend seems to be worsening. It should be noted that most overdose deaths involving methadone were caused by concurrent use of benzodiazepines or other tranquilizer drugs.[citation needed]

A British Alcoholics-Anonymous-like group, Recovery, notes, "It is our experience as ex-drug addicts and addiction counsellors that methadone is as dangerous and as harmful as heroin. It offers little or no incentive for an addict to stop taking drugs."

Methadone has almost no scientific study supporting its use for chronic pain. It does not have superior pain relieving effects vs. other opiates and is much more dangerous. Therefore, many reputable physicians discourage methadone use for any reason.[citation needed]

Abuse
Most methadone abuse is perpetrated by friends and family members of people who receive the drug on a prescription basis for medical conditions.

Although not common, methadone is encountered on the illicit drug market and has been associated with a number of overdose deaths. "Street Meth" demand comes primarily from opioid addicts unable to get into a legal methadone program, or addicts who have been removed from a methadone program due to some infraction. Methadone is not a common drug of choice because, generally speaking, addicts seeking a high strongly prefer shorter-acting opioids. Studies have shown that the vast majority of methadone diverted to the illicit market comes from pain management prescriptions or theft from factories/shippers and not from maintenance patients.

Similar drugs
Closely related to methadone, the synthetic compound levo-alphacetylmethadol or LAAM (ORLAAM) has an even longer duration of action (from 48 to 72 hours), permitting a reduction in frequency of use. In 1994 it was approved as a treatment of narcotic addiction. Like methadone, LAAM is in Schedule II of the United States Controlled Substances Act. LAAM has since been removed from the US and European markets due to reports of rare cardiac side effects.

Buprenorphine has also been used in the treatment of narcotic addiction. In the UK and many other countries, however, not only buprenorphine and methadone but also diamorphine (heroin) and other opioids may be used for outpatient treatment of opiate addiction, and treatment is generally provided in much less heavily regulated environments than in the United States. A study from Austria indicated that oral morphine provides better results than oral methadone, and studies of heroin maintenance have indicated that a low background dose of methadone combined with heroin maintenance may significantly improve outcomes for less-responsive patients.

Another close relative of methadone is dextropropoxyphene, first marketed in 1957 under the trade name of Darvon. Oral analgesic potency is one-half to one-third that of codeine, with 65 mg approximately equivalent to about 600 mg of aspirin. Dextropropoxyphene is prescribed for relief of mild to moderate pain. Bulk dextropropoxyphene is in Schedule II of the United States Controlled Substances Act, while preparations containing it are in Schedule IV. More than 100 tons of dextropropoxyphene are produced in the United States annually, and more than 25 million prescriptions are written for the products. This narcotic is associated with a number of toxic side effects and is among the top 10 drugs reported by medical examiners in recreational drug use deaths.

cram315
10-04-2006, 05:26 PM
Angeleyes, that may be the reason why I didn't see him all weekend because he was letting the drugs get out of his system or what I see is what I get on the drug test. If you drink a lot of water or tea, can you get drugs out of your system sooner?

Kim, thanks for that post :)

Proward, I don't understand why anyone who has had methadone out of their system for 4 months would dabble in it again. Why are people dying from it? It must give some sort of high. Or did I miss that in your post (I am very tired tonight long work day).

Sadmum, did you meet with the Gov't yet? We haven't given up on Katey, a lot of us are praying for her and you every night. You are a loving, patient, understanding mom who bent over backwards to find her and about addictions. You are everything a mother should be. I look up to you, you are everything I would like to be. I am a yeller.

TWYL, can I go to an NA meeting with him? That may be the only way he will go, he wants company. 22 going on 12!

Good night all, gotta go empty a dishwasher.

angeleyes0906
10-04-2006, 09:48 PM
I will be sure to pass your rendition of uses for methadone onto our rehab center here, Im sure they will be interested in their using it incorrectly according to your sources. And Ill also pass along your studies to back them up. guess there is never off label use, or studies that suggest your sources would be one opinion. But Im not going to enter into a squabbeling match with you.

Information that I am giving is based on information provided to medical practices and professional drug screening collection facilities and Medical review officers in particuliar, again I will pass on the info that they are wrong.
Most of the drug life that I quoted are to ensure the levels that have to be present to be reported as a positive or negative result.
There are very specific reference levels that have to be acheived before a drug can be considered positive for use. Drugs that are not fat stored do not stay in the body as long as the ones that are.

Based on information provided to me, yes there are ways to "dilute" a speciman, but would have to have time to prepare. I have been told that golden seal, vinigar, creatine, drinking mass fluids and diretics can help rid certain drugs. I have also heard of substances being put into the urine or on hands prior to testing and mixed with the urine to cause a "false" test result.

Facilities usually make the donor wash hands with soap and water prior to donating, and turn off water and turn the toliet water blue to eliminate diluting with water. Also, direct observation can eliminate something being put in the speciman to cloud the results. Oral substances take time to metabalize so surprise is on your side. Watch for color of urine, oders, any films floating on the urine ect.

Probably the most accurate test available but cost prohibative is hair strand, it will tell you the usage for the life of the hair, have seen kids shave heads to avoid this test.

I know how hard it can be to deal with kids using drugs. The designer drugs scare the gezzies out of me, one use could be the last. Meds seem to be much more readily available for them to get their hands on. My daughter lost a friend to an overdose of antidepressants, a friend of hers told the girl that crushing the pills and snorting them would give her a big rush. Guess it did striaght to the er, and the funeral home. No longer a friend of my daughter. I really have no clue where they come up with this stuff. My neice was abusing an albuterol inhaler to get the stimulant effect from it. Had no clue what would happen with long term use if not an asthmatic.

I really wish you the best, let me know what you find out. thoughts and prayers your way.

angeleyes

kim4074
10-05-2006, 06:10 AM
anywho cram how is it going anything new? I beleive in the idea of an intervention I have seen the tv show and everyone writes a letter of how the addicts drugs use has affected their lives negativly then gives them the option to get help and if they dont they take away something that the addict holds hear to them. Like I will no longer accept your phone calls nor will I give you money or rides anywhere...... Then when everyone it done with their letters you leave it up to the addict if they agree to stop or get help great but if they dont you really have to stick to your guns on this and prove everyone involved is serious on what they say. I hope that helps and your welcome I can just see things for both angles. In fact I called in "sick" today to have a me day I am going to lunch with my sister and shopping and enjoying myself. Who doesnt need a ME day!!! Best wishes. Kim

kim4074
10-05-2006, 11:16 AM
also maybe you could just write him a letter and tell him how his drug use has affected your life and you and tell him to get help. Addicts dont think they interupt anyones life as they are only thinking of themselves. The only way their addiction bothers you is because you let it they dont think how they are hurting people lying, manipulating, using people or anything they do to inconvience all around them as we are selfish. So maybe if you write down all the things that have affected you negativley with his actions and his addictions. On the tv show all they letters start off on how they were before addicted and what high hopes they all had and what loving people they used to be. Then it goes into how they have turned and what it has done to you. As he might not see it through your eyes and it gives them a new prospective on things. You cant get angry and you have to let them make their own decisions as we all know that yelling gets us no where and barely heard at that. alright sorry to keep rambling about this hope this helps you. Kim

Proward
10-05-2006, 11:23 AM
AngelEyes -

I didn't mean to offend you, which it sounds like I did. I was only saying that I have never read anywhere that Methadone is or ever was being used to help aid withdrawl from 'Cocain and other hardcore narcotics'. If it is being used to aid withdrawl from Cocain , I'd like to read about it or discuss it with some one who has used it for such. Methadone has traditionaly been used as part of a program for Opiad Detox, to help people kick Opiad and Heroin addictions and I know many folks who now get it prescribed to help control pretty bad pain. I have never heard of it being used as part of a program to aid in kicking an addiction to Cocain.

I have been in this game for a long time and I feel like I have read everything ever written about Opiads, Methadone, OTC Opiad meds, etc.

If I offended, I apologize. Just trying to share information and the information I shared was the most comprehensive that I have found concerning Methadone, from both sides. There is a group called NAMA (National Alliance for Methadone Advocates) and there are Physicians and Addictionologists and Pain Specialists who all have different opinions and I have read viewpoints of them all. But the info I shared was to give a basic understanding of the drug for the person who posted, not to lean one way of the other.

Good day --

Phil

kim4074
10-05-2006, 12:58 PM
We could all sit here all day and debate this cause every where you go there will be different information. Lets not loose focus on this topic though. Cram I used to go to AA meetings with my dad and no one seemed to have a problem with it. It was insightful for me to understand but some meetings might be closed but you dont have to speak and they dont know. If thats the only way he will go then I would go he needs to meet clean people and learn there is a way without drugs. TWYL would know better about this though. Well thinking of you. Kim