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Lost In NW
07-27-2007, 10:01 AM
Hi - I posted here about 5 months ago when I found out my wife was taking Tramadol - not for pain, but to 'treat' her depression. She had been addicted to oxycontin and we got her off of that a couple of years ago. She hid the Tramadol use from me and was apologetic when I found out, but then got a new head of steam and said that she wasn't hurting anything and it was her business what she did. She accused me of spying on her, and trying to be her dad. She currently takes Lexipro too.

She has been taking it steadily now for the past 5 months - I think 6, 50mg pills a day. Every so often she says she will taper off of it but then changes her mind. She is spending about $250 a month getting these delivered to her via FedEx. I work out of the house and she was making me leave when she knew they would be delivered. She tears up and hides the envelopes they come in. I am getting so steamed I am ready to leave for good.

I realize there would be huge consequences of this since we have two daughters from her previous marriage and one son together that is 6. Leaving probably isn't the best thing, but I don't know what would be better to get her off of this. Should I tell her friends and family and try to have an intervention? Should I go and visit a marriage counselor? She won't go to one when I have mentioned it because I'm sure the counselor would urge her to get off the drugs.

Another question? Why am I so steamed? My wife tells me it is me trying to control her - I just want her off of the stuff, and I want the bleeding of money to stop. She says that I just want her to commit suicide!

Does the Tramadol make you not have clear decisions - or lack of control? For example, when she was addicted to the oxy, or has taken percoset or something like that, she would spend lots of money. It seems as though she is doing that now. Also, she out of the blue decided she wanted a tatoo the other day, and today is the day she is going in to have one done. I wonder if this is the Tramadol or really her decision. That's the problem - I don't know what is her and what is the pills.

Any help? Suggestions?

kate26444
07-27-2007, 10:41 AM
I've been taking tramadol now for at least five years for my fibromyalgia aches and pains. I took vicodin for many, many years and finally decided (it stopped working) I couldn't be dependent on it any longer. My doc prescribed ultram and it has been a life saver. I take 100 mg., four times a day.

I've never gotten a "high" from ultram and there have been many times that I was without it for a couple of days and haven't felt wd symptoms. Maybe it would've happened after three days, I don't know.

Are you sure your wife is only taking ultram and nothing else? I hope you aren't looking for a reason to leave her. I've never noticed that ultram made me think irrationally or spend more money than normal. I own and manage a very successful business that is demanding and requires that I'm on the ball 24/7. I would hate to think my mind is negatively affected by the ultram. I think you should either speak to your doctor or do a little research to become more knowledgeable about ultram. I hate to think your wife is hiding more from you but (with an addict in our family), it would make me wonder if she's telling you the whole truth. It seems you are making it a little difficult for her to open up to you too. She needs to speak to someone immediately if she is talking about taking her life, showing irrational behavior, etc. For the health of your family, you should encourage her to do so. God bless...I'll keep you in my prayers--Kate

reachout
07-27-2007, 10:57 AM
Hello Friend

Tramadol (Ultram) was marketed as non-addictive and nothing could be farther from the truth. Considering your wife's past addiction to oxyconton, I would surmise that she is now dealing with a full blown addiction to Tramadol. Using it probably caused those opiate receptors to wake up and say, "Hello again, Oldl Friend, glad to feel you again." She is displaying totally addictive behaviour again and my gut feeling is that she doesn't even know why.

When my husband didn't seem to grasp the significance of his bloodpressure and the potential for a heart attack, I just pulled info off the net and shared it with him. He sure wasn't going to listen to [U]meU] spout off like an authority! I just shared with him by saying, "Honey, I was reading about this and you know what it says? Blah, Blah Blah" Having an 'authoritative" (haha) source like an internet article allowed him the dignity of saying , "okay, maybe there is something to this." Today, in about two hours, we are leaving for the doctor to discuss running the heart tests and working on the blood pressure.

Maybe, maybe, you could pull some articles off the net and share in a comfortable way with wife. Search Tramadol AND addiction. Sharing with her in an interested and not condescending or finger pointing way may be the path to her agreeing to go to her doctor with you as support and discuss the whole issue.

Hoping, hoping,ohoping for an opportunity to address this BIG issue with your wife
reachout

barbw
07-28-2007, 05:25 PM
Hi,
I could be your wife, I was doing exactly all of these behaviors. I started on the Tramadol for legitimate back pain, irony was that I had been on Methadone for it, got clean of the methadone, pain was still bad. My ortho doc told me the Tram was not addictive, WRONG!

I had many fights with my husband, who feels the same way you do. I feel like he would rather me be in pain, than to spend the money on the meds. Which in turn makes me feel less than loved.

But he is very important to me, and I do trust him, so I quit the Tram cold turkey last Monday. This has been the week from hell, the first 3 days I could hardly get out of bed.

Please make sure that if you convince her to quit, that you give her the time she needs during the withdrawal's stage. First there will be physical wd's, and then there will be neurological wd's.

Good Luck
Barb

Lost In NW
07-31-2007, 02:07 PM
Ok, I'm confused. On one hand kate says that she takes Tramadol and has no ill effects, no confusion and all is well. On the other hand we have people telling how addictive it is. Kate - are you prone to addictive behavior? If you haven't been addicted to anything previously, then is that why it isn't affecting you as others? I don't know, and that's why I'm posting.

What exactly does the Tramadol do to you to make you want to continue - or to stop? Does anyone have experience they can share on what it does to you mentally? My wife is forgetting a lot of things recently that she has just told me about - is this an effect? Also, after looking at the expenditures, it appears my wife is taking probably more like 8+ 50mg tabs a day. Does the Tramadol make you want to take more and more like oxy?

I've tried telling my wife that there are countless boards and information on the web about how bad Tramadol is for you but she refuses to listen saying she has done all the research. We literally can't discuss this without an argument. My next step is to talk to her best friend in confidence - she knew about the oxy addiction and does not support addiction. I'm pretty sure she could bring it up somehow without the information being obvious from me - but I'm willing to risk it anyway.

I feel like I have to do something soon, last night while we were driving home my wife had a huge out of body experience or massive panic attack - which is not like her. The first thing that flashed through my mind is that I do know that Tramadol can cause seizures - but I'm not sure if this is related.

Here again, what does it do to you that makes it so bad that you should stop? I need all the ammo I can get.

Thanks!

mariogreymist
07-31-2007, 02:29 PM
My wife tells me it is me trying to control her - I just want her off of the stuff, and I want the bleeding of money to stop. She says that I just want her to commit suicide!

Okay, this is classic addict behavior here. If nothing else told me she's massively hooked, this alone would do it. She is trying to manipulate you into silence.

Some keys for you to remember:
Don't threaten to leave unless you really are prepared to do so.
Don't let her convince you that your motives are bad - I assume you could forgive her transgressions if they stopped.
Do find an alanon group.

It's hard to love an addict. We manipulate people to get what we want, we lie, we steal and we abuse genuine affection. On the other hand, most recovered addicts are loving, caring people who would give the shirt off their backs for a friend in need. Unfortunately, it is very hard to know when someone might shift from being a practicing addict to a recovering one. You might consider an intervention with the aid of a CD counselor.

It's a tough spot - particularly with the well-being of the kids to consider. My heart goes out to you.

reachout
07-31-2007, 03:36 PM
NW

I am sorry I am short on time here and will try to get back later to share more with you. You need to mdrag your wife's butt to her doctor and if she won't share, then you better. Yoyr wife sounds exactly in the consition I was in as I fell into a horrendous breakdown and felt like I was dying.. panic attacks were daily events 4-6 times a day and the depression and emotional horror were almost unbearable. It IS the Tramadol causing this.. It IS. For me, it was oxycodone, but it all works the same.

She is a sick, sick woman... hates herself right now and isn't even sure of what the heck is going on ion her. Spit it out.. set the boundary... "We are going to see the doctor immediately about how badly you are feeling, how you have ben acting and get to the bottom of what is happening to you. I love you too much to have to end up in divorce court over issues that can be solved with some help."

Matt, it needs to be done. If it doesn't end up in dicorce court, I fear it will end up ion the undertaker's office amking arrangements. I have been there, Matt, where your wife is. She is not capable of taking control. Do it for her.

Hope to write more later. This is no way for a marriage to thrive and it CAN be repaired for the two of you.

Hugs
reach

mariogreymist
07-31-2007, 04:09 PM
She is not capable of taking control. Do it for her.
I'm sure it was well intended, but in my experience this might be the worst piece of advice on addiction I've ever heard. One person cannot control another's addiction. To think you can would be the very definition of codependency.

reachout
07-31-2007, 07:43 PM
Hi NW

I am back home and did not want to end the night without sharing a bit more with you. Sorry for the delay. Hubby and I actually went out on the kind of date night only old married people do... for haircuts. Hahaha!! Every eight weeks is our big night out.

I wanted to share a bit more of my story with you. In the months.. actually the years, before I ended up where your wife is close to being it seems, I honestly and truly did not understand how the opiates worked on a person's body and mind. As I began to fall into deeper and deeper depression, I thought that that was exactly what it was.. depression. I had no clue how connected it was to the opiate painkillers and benzos that I was using for so many years to control post cancer surgery. As the depression depened, I would cry and sob. I hated the depression for ruining my life, stealing it from me. My husband loved me, but as I withdrew, it caused him to miss out on many social ocassions even within the family. As close as I am to my adult children, I was even withdrawn from them.

My hubby started coming with me to my doctors' appointments because I was usually too exhausted to even drive. The doctor always asked my husband how he felt I was doing. My husband always descibed the pain I had and how tird I always was. The oncologist always said that yes, the pain could do that as well as the meds I was on. I don't think he ever made the connection between my crying, the depression and the medications.

When the final breakdown came, I went flying to my family doctor, a confidant and a friend. As he saw me sitting there sobbing, he said, "I can help." He talked directly to my husband first and asked the right questions. Is she calmer after taking the meds? Is she sleeping more than is normal? Stuff like that. And then he turned directly to me and said, "You need to come off the opiates and the benzo." he asked me for "full disclosure" on exactly how many meds I wa taking. I told him the truth. He said I was displaying addictive behaviour... that he wasn't clling me an addict, but that there was no doubt about the adictive behavior. He explained that the opiates and Xanax were contributing hugely to my depression and that in trying to escape the depression, I had crossed the line at some point and was using the meds to self-medicate for the depression as much, if not more, than for the post cancer pain.

He was right, NW. I didn't know if I believed him or not at first, but I was in such a horrible emotional hole that I was willing to try anything.... and I trusted him. It took me since last October to taper off oxycodone and then xanx, but now it is done. I was in such bad shape that I was forced to retire from work that I loved. Today? I am happy, joyous even. I am enjoying my kids, my grandbaby, my friends again! And tomorrow hopefully I will hear about a job I applied for doing the work I did in a different setting. I have strted a home tutoring business as well and have proposals out to two companies and am awaiting xdeciaison s from them. I am living again, NW, and my marriage and family are thriving again.

It was difficult for me to face and own up to displaying addictive behavior. And whatever it may be called medically, it is the same deal getting off and staying off narcotics when our bodies have become so dependent. HAd my husband not levele with the doctor about how much I was sleeping, how exhausted I always was, how our socilal life and family life had deteriorated, I do believe I would be dead now. Dead is always the end result of depression if it is not dealt with properly and professionally.

I believe that your wife isself medicating because of deep depression. I read that together you had worked to get her off the oxycontin. What I didn't read is what kind of aftercare took place after she got off the opiate. Is she in continuing counseling? NA? AA?

As hard as detox is, it is the aftercare that is the most essential part... as I think you are living proof of seeing in your marrriage and family. It is the depression that comes hard as a normal process after detox and it absolutlely must be dealt with.

Do think about setting up that boundary and getting Wife to the doctor and laying it all out in front of her. Full disclosure... and if she can not spit out the words, then do it for her. When that was done for me, I gave up all control of meds to Hubby, listened to what the doctor said I needed to do.... and got better, and am staying better. Restored, renewed, a wife, Mom, friend and whole person again.

Many, many of us make it to where I am today, NW. Sadly, some do not. However, it seems you care about this marriage and I believe with all my heart that a step to get Wife headed where she needs to go is something you need to do for you as well as her. Please go in a step-by-step, logical progression here. I know you are truly suffering and do not want you to rush into an ultimatum like "Clean up or we are done" without understanding what that oxycotin withdrawal caused in Wife because perhaps no real aftercare was in place. Don't cross abridge until it needs to be crossed.

I am wishing you well and hoping your wife and mother of your child can find the inner strength to accept the help.

Peace
reachout

Lost In NW
07-31-2007, 10:14 PM
Thanks for the words mariogreymist and reachout -

mariogreymist - what is a CD counselor? and where would I find a good one? reachout - I don't think there is any way I can drag my wife's butt to the doctor - she pretty much refuses to see doctors. After her stint with the oxy, she did get very depressed and I found her a psychologist to see. After a few sessions, she decided the guy was a quack and refused to go back. This was prior to the Tramadol. Since then she thinks that anything she goes to any doctor for, the doctor knows her past and treats her differently. She finally told everything to our local doc, and said a great weight had been lifted, but this doc has prescribed her Tramadol a couple of times. I don't think he's aware of how much she is taking from other sources. So in short - she really didn't have much after-addiction care.

Right now for the most part she is in a pretty good mood and I'm sure she's convinced that the Tramadol is doing nothing bad to her - and it would be hard for me to prove that as well. The only things I have noticed are the forgetful things and that her usage seems to be increasing.

I've read on this board that no one can be helped until they are ready to be helped themselves, so I'm not sure what to do next. I know if I confide in her friend or family members she will be so angry with me that she might never forgive. On the other hand I feel I cannot let this go on, for my own health - financial and mental.

She is paying for the drugs with some money that her mom left her when she died. It is money I really don't have access to, so cutting the funds off is not really something I could do.

This whole thing started when she started taking her mom's oxy as she was taking care of her. Her mom had cancer and died 2 years ago Christmas.

Should I tell her family and friends? Or is that the worst thing to do?

reachout
07-31-2007, 11:00 PM
Hi NW

If she has has the opportunity to have aftercare and refuses to do so, then the bridge needs to be crossed. If she will not accept that her behavior has crossed the line into addictive and won't do anything about it, then now is the time for you to get proactive to save yourself and the kids.

It seems as if it is time to tell her that unless she cleans up and works with a professional to get help, she must leave. Not you.. her. Her actions are pulling the family unit apart little by little, you are falling down in your own mental health and the kids are going to suffer.

As you set the boundaries, make sure you re willing to follow through. It is pointless to take a stand and not follow through because then the crap will just continue. I would confront her, as it is she who is with the issues, not her friends. If she turns them, fine.. maybe they can help her see it is her. It is ultimately Wife who must be held accountable. If a doctor has tried to work with her and she is making excuses not to go, then she has pretty much signed her own fate here. It is sad and painful, I know.

What are you really willing for your boundary to be? I would suggest you find a nar-Anon or Al-anon meeting very soon and let those who have dealt with this be a guide tio you. You need support to help you through this! The people and friends you meet at one of these meetings can provide such support and solid advice as they have, and some sstill are, standing in your shoes.

I am sorry. For the whole family. Each member is going to have pain in this. As the rational adult in the situation, it falls on you to take the steps you must to protect the youngsters and yourself from an irrational adult who will not own up to her actions.

The things you have noticed... the forgetfulness, the increased usage, the panic attacks you mentioned earlier are all signs of progressive damage being done by the Tramadol. It will continue to escalate until she crashes and by then you may well crach from the pressure of it. Get proactive. Perhaps let the prescibing doctor know what is going on. And then decide on your boundries, confront her with the bills and ripped up envelopes and go from there.

Stay in touch with the board; there are other spouses and parents who have dealt with this. There will be support for you here. And please... this is a great site, but nothing can compare to real live people in your corner. get to a meeting.

In my thoughts
reach

mariogreymist
08-01-2007, 09:01 AM
mariogreymist - what is a CD counselor? and where would I find a good one? Chemical Dependency counselor. I would suggest calling your insurance carrier and having them help you - the best one in the world isn't going to help much if you can't pay her.


I've read on this board that no one can be helped until they are ready to be helped themselves, so I'm not sure what to do next. I know if I confide in her friend or family members she will be so angry with me that she might never forgive. On the other hand I feel I cannot let this go on, for my own health - financial and mental.

She is paying for the drugs with some money that her mom left her when she died. It is money I really don't have access to, so cutting the funds off is not really something I could do.

This whole thing started when she started taking her mom's oxy as she was taking care of her. Her mom had cancer and died 2 years ago Christmas.

Should I tell her family and friends? Or is that the worst thing to do?It's true that you can't help an addict until they are ready to be helped. That's not to say you can't help them be ready - that's what an intervention is. I don't suggest an intervention until you have seen a counselor yourself, and I do advise you get professional help if you do it. In the long run, a recovered addict will almost always forgive your actions (telling friends/family, etc) in helping them clean up.

I strongly suggest you find a good alanon meeting. There are millions of people that have been through what you are going through. They will be willing and able to help by explaining what did and did not help in their lives.

In the end, only you can decide when you can't take any more. Always remember though: don't threaten to leave and take the kids unless you are really prepared to do it - and have an alternative in place for her. Something like, "I've talked to X recovery center, and they have a bed for you. It's a 28 day residential treatment, and I'll visit every time I can. If you don't go, I'm taking the kids and leaving." That is far more helpful than, "If you don't stop, I'm taking the kids and going!"

vide1111
08-05-2007, 12:14 AM
NW,
What Tram does is what almost all other opiates (like oxy) do: create tolerance. As your wife is taking a certain dose, after a couple of days or so, the same dose won't be as effective as before so she will be tempted to take more. This is also a mental issue as well in that she remembers how effective (good) tram felt so she wants to experience it again and once her dose goes over several pills (8+), it is almost as if she was 'forced' to take tram as she will feel so uncomfortable she won't want to go through it or eventually she would crash and have to go through the TERRIBLE withdrawals which last for days and resulting depression could last for months! Interestingly, tram is also used as a mood enhancer for depression as it affects serotonin which is a mood regulator and therefore, as serotonin is depleted as a result of the tram, the brain needs to replenish it and until it does, depressive episodes hit. After first taking tram for a few days, I stoped for a day and as the night drew near, I just broke out crying as I felt so sad and I did not even think that it might be tram that was responsible for it. But it IS tram that's responsible for the awful feelings of sadness, crying spells, etc. Once I realized that tram was making me feel like this, I started extensively researching anything and everything on tram and opiates, how they affect one's brain, mood, etc. I eventually was taking very big amounts of tram as it was fairly easy to get just like your wife, they arrived via Fedex Express, and as I had sufficient funds, I would get 180 trams almost every week (16-31 trams a day). Such big doses are definitely seizure-causing and I was playing with fire but I guess that amount wasn't my "limit" or I wasn't prone to seizures as I never had one during the 2 years of taking tram and other opiates (for the 'high' rarely for pain). Eventually, I went cold turkey which did not work as I felt horrible, worse than anything I ever experienced, so I looked into tapering down and that was the only thing that has worked for me; 1 tram less each day and once I got to 2-3 trams a day, I cut them in half and took half less until I got to 0. The WDs were almost nonexistent and I was surprised that I was able to still feel tram working as I lowered my dose daily.

I can't say that tram was reponsible for any memory lapses (maybe I forgot?) and the only thing I can think of in terms of tram "controlling" one's personality/actions is that you might act a little different than your 'usual self' in terms of being more talkative or more open to doing things that you might've not done if it wasn't for the good/happy feeling that tram gave you. Is your wife taking tram for the 'high' or is she experiencing actual pain? Obviously, one has to be ready for the change in order to free one's self from the addiction and my best advice is to taper off it slowly (the slower the better) as then the WDs are A LOT less pronounced than if full fledged cold-turkey approach was attempted. I hope this helps! ;)
vide1111

Lost In NW
08-05-2007, 08:57 AM
Thanks for the post vide1111 - it was very helpful. My wife does take the Tramadol only for the mood effect and not for pain. She started taking them when she was depressed - I think she entered some chat room and someone suggested them to her! She swears she is in control of this and she will taper off "when she wants to".

My struggle with all of this is that any behavior changes I've noticed have been minor, and I do feel terrible about the possibility of the damage to the family it might cause to confront her with an intervention. I know in the throngs of an addiction the addict will say almost anything to take the spotlight off of them so they can continue using their drug. I'm just not sure how strong a grip the Tramadol has on her. Maybe she can taper off - but I'm sure if she did, at the first negative incident or perceived incident, she would start them up again. She is convinced they are harmless as she has 'done the research' and she can handle it.

I'm guessing at the amount she is taking, and I think it's around 9 or 10- 50mg pills a day, as she gets a 'shipment' every 2 weeks. Every time I see a FedEx truck now I just picture it as a drug delivery van.

I did contact a counselor that specializes in chemical dependency and marriage, and will also do interventions. They suggest that before an intervention I need to see the therapist at least 3 times, which it sounds like I need to do to get my own mind straightened out. Right now my wife and I don't trust each other - she thinks I'm always snooping into her personal business, and I don't trust her judgement or if she telling me the truth.

I feel guilty!

smoochy39
08-05-2007, 05:10 PM
Yes, it sounds like your wife is an addict. First the oxy's now the tramadol. Opiates or synthetic opiates do not treat depression (although they feel like they do)

You are in quite a pickle. Do you love your wife and are you willing to go to any length to help her?

It's so hard for a non addict (my husband) to understand the disease of addiction (me).

I don't know what I can add, but if she is unwilling, or doesn't see she has a problem that you are going to have to use tough love. Keep seeing the therapist they suggested, attend al anon meetings, whatever, for YOUR sake, and have a heart to heart with her. Do not let it escalate into an argument or a blame session. Let her know how it's destroying you and your family. Remember I said 'it' not her. But if she's in complete denial, there really isn't anything you can do. It has to be her decision.

And getting sober is only the beginning.......it's a lifelong committment to not fall back into our old habits.

If you do go with the intervention and she refuses to seek treatment, then you have to be unselfishly selfish. This is your life too, and your childrens, and you have to do whatever it takes to keep y'all healthy. I'm not giving you any advice on leaving or anything like that, that has to come down to you and your heart, but you need to be armed with as much info about addiction before making any rash decisions.

Drugs are the symptom of an underlying problem. Recovery is a long and painful road, but can also be a freedom of sorts.

Sorry I can't be of more help to you, but if anything, keep posting here, we will help as much as possible, even if it's just to give support.

BTW-for anyone who knows my posts and problems, I'm down to 8 hydros a day-came clean with my neighbor who is willing to help me and going cold turkey next weekend. I made the decision and am doing it. I'll post on another thread. Just had to add that in, because I'm pretty proud of myself right now.

One last thing you need to remember.......drugs (unless used properly for the right reasons) do nothing but destroy lives, don't let it destroy yours. You will eventually have to make a stand, but some of the best advice I've learned in AA meetings is that if you have to make a really important decision and don't know the answer--do nothing. You need to get more help before you decide what to do.

God bless and take care,
Sarah

IZZY'SMOM
08-05-2007, 05:51 PM
Hi NW~
Wow, you have been run thru the ringer. there are a ton of wonderful helpful posts here. reach is a vetran and always offers superb advice, as well as others. "Hidy Reach! Sorry Ive been gone!":)
Anyway. Your wife is hooked as all can be and the sad thing is that tramadol is horrible for you. I got it prescribed to be about 9 yrs ago, and had two seizures, and one was when i was driving and had my 2 yr old son in the car with me. i went thru a ditch, AFTER crossing 4 lanes, and ripped thru a fence, and luckliy he was in the back seat in his car seat, and i had minor injuries. Ill NEVER EVER and have NEVER ever touched it since.
I had a doC that wasnt very good and didnt do his homework about it and it didnt help my pain at all. it just made me CRAZY! anyway, back to the story. Your wife is maipulating you to death, you know it, and she seems hell bent for destruction. I honestly say, that if she wont get help and you have small children or heck ANY children, then I would get legal counsel if she will not get help, but everyine needs to do whats best for their situation.
I found a good pain mgmnt doc that has helped me tremendously, but if she is abusing them for a mood lift then she has other factors going on, and not pain. They made me "high", i could clean or shop all day, i was just in PERFECT speed land. They are killers, and I hope she realizes what a good man and husband you are. when ppl addictions get so rampant, they dont care WHO they hurt. Isnt it sad? Your going to have to do an intervention, it seems, but i could be wrong. Tell her you are taking the kids away....Maybe that wouold scare her, I dont know...She must be getting the meds from an overseas pharmacy, and it must REALLY suck to see the drug truck come in...the sad thing is...she will get them somewhere else...on the street isnt a good place to buy drugs.
Wow, I am really pulling for you, your family, and yes your wife...she needs help badly. PLEASE let us know how things are going. youll find tons of help and advice and support here. I just came over here from the pain board to say hidy to a few ppl and saw your post. I hope i didnt offend you. Im not an addict, but have had a lot of them in my life, and I wanted to post.
xoxoxox,
IZZY'SMOM:angel: :angel:

Lost In NW
08-07-2007, 07:12 AM
Thanks for everyone's posts. They have been very helpful to steer me in the right direction. I have my first appointment today with a counselor. She feels that an intervention will be needed.

As part of the process she's wanted me to collect the 'evidence' that my wife is trying to hide - the FedEx envelopes, the pill bottles (which have all the labels ripped off) and the warning sheets that come with the shipments (ripped in little pieces). I spent some time taping together one of these sheets and I found out I'm underestimating the amount she is taking. I was assuming each shipment was 80 or 90 tablets, but they are for 180 tablets each! I'm guessing that she is taking more like 20-50mg tablets a day! (Plus alcohol, antihistamine and sleep aids -trazadone)

At this point I am so disgusted with the whole thing, but I know I need to talk to the counselor to help put things in perspective.

reachout
08-07-2007, 07:21 AM
NW

Control of the situation is being taken by you. I know it is very hard on you, but is needed. You need to be the responsible one in protecting yourself and the kids. Your wife is incapable at this point in her life.

I don't know if she will ever be capable of being responsible. It's going to be on her. Collecting those things, getting ready to confront her with black and white evidence allows her the opportunity to face up. It is also going to allow you the opportunity to understand her deal and understand what hjer choice is going to be. From there, your choices will be clearer. It is a good thing you are doing.

Always understand that the pain this whole thing is causing you is unhealthy for you. You deserve a relationship that is honest and peace in your life. The same as an addict makes his bid for a peaceful joyous life, so must the partner and each family member.

I wish you well.
reach

IZZY'SMOM
08-09-2007, 03:50 PM
Trazadone is used for depression in amounts of 400 mg or more daily, but in smaller amounts for a sleep aid. It also enhances the effects of pain meds and alcohol as well. My doc told me that a coupe of weeks ago. Thats why it can be dangerous if you drink with it and take more than prescribed.
Hope things are working out for you....let us know how things are going!
xoxoxox,
IZZY'SMOM:)

Lost In NW
08-09-2007, 05:14 PM
Here's a brief update of where we are:

I met with the counselor and we are indeed going to do an intervention. I've contacted my wife's father, her two brothers, step-sister and best friend who will all meet the counselor tomorrow so she can tell us what our roles will be and what to say, and we will schedule the intervention. We plan to have an appointment set up at the detox so right after the intervention we can take my wife there. On the advice of the counselor I also told her ex-husband who is pretty upset too.

One snag we hit - My wife was gone with her daughters and it was just me and my 5 year old son a couple of nights ago. The next day my wife asked my son what he did with daddy. He said we went bowling, which we did, and daddy went through the trash! She called me and was livid, telling me that she went out to the trash and all the pill bottles she threw away were gone and what had I done with them. I just made some lame excuse that I took them out and threw them away in a trash can away from the house. She said that that was like a whole years worth (which it wasn't - more like a couple months worth). She also said that she was taking the minimum amount, which I know is not true since she's had 10 shipments since April 30. She took the kids out to dinner at a nice restaurant and left me at home. She called her best friend the next morning and told her the snooping I was doing was the last straw and she was going to file for divorce. (After telling everyone in her family about her addiction, I've found out that she's been telling them how 'controlling' I am) Her friend told her to not make rash decisions and to give it time. My wife has barely spoken to me since. Her friend asked her why do you think he's snooping in the garbage? and her reply was "I don't know".

Ok, maybe I wasn't too brief. I'll post another update after the meeting tomorrow.

mariogreymist
08-10-2007, 11:05 AM
It sounds to me like you are doing the right thing. I hope the intervention goes well - do keep us updated. My prayers are with you and your family.

IZZY'SMOM
08-10-2007, 03:42 PM
Congratulations for doing the right thing...Its terribly difficult, but you are doing the right thing. Stay steady on course, and remember that your children deserve better from theiir mommy, and you deserve better from a wife.
Im very proud of you. a lot of ppl see how crazy it can be and just give up. She will be livid when she finds out you are doing an intervention, but its for everyones' own good.
I think that she will tell whoever will listen to her lies right now, whatever they want to hear. If she continues about the trash issue, tell her that its not good for trash collectors to know you have meds in the house, and you are being cautious. whatever....youve just got to buy some time. Stay strong~ thanks for the update~!
Pulling for you...
xoxoxoxox,
IZZY'SMOM:angel:

jules3
08-10-2007, 08:00 PM
Wow, i really feel for you. she can probably make you think you are crazy sometimes right? second guessing yourself? She is an addict..whatever her reasons are it really doesnt matter..she cant work on them until she is clean of drugs. my son too suffered from depression and anxiety and was using opiates to numb himself those were his words exactly. we begged and begged him to stop, he coudnt and WOUDNT do it until he was ready to..he went willingly into a 30 day rehab and was detoxed. he is 5 mths clean and keeps in touch with his rehab frinds and goes to n.a meeting weekly. I hope and pray that the intervention works. maybe she will see the light and think about the kids. it has to come from her and only her. please keep us posted..:angel:

Lost In NW
08-11-2007, 09:39 PM
Here;s the update after the group session with the counselor:

Everyone showed up on time. My wife's father, 2 brothers, sister and best friend. It became appararent that my wife had been telling the others how "controlling" I was. She had told her sister when she watched our house while we were on vacation that she was expecting a package and that it was for something that she gets online for depression but her doctor knows about it and she has a prescription - but not to tell me because I'm over-vigilent on medications - and to put away her bank statement so I wouldn't find it. She had been telling her friend for the past year that I wouldn't let her get out of the house because I have to have her under my thumb.

Her dad had come to visit us the day before the session to see for himself if she seemed different - and he couldn't tell any differences.

So the session was at first an education by the counselor on how serious this addiction is. I had the pill bottles and invoices, and everyone eventually came around to realizing this. Mind you - today my wife is acting almost normal, and I too, question myself if I'm doing the right thing. My worst fear is that we will confront her and she will say that she's only taking the minimum amount and I've done the math wrong, or that she stopped taking it weeks ago, so what's the big deal?

The rest of the session was spent putting down our statements on what we will say during the intervention. If my wife agrees to get help after the first person talks, we end right there. If not, we keep going. Everyone will ask her to get help. The counselor will put me last because my statements reflect the most anger - surprise! plus I'm the one she will listen to the least.

I don't know if the marriage will survive this whole thing, - I'm doubting it at this point, but at least I know that I've done what I can to help her.

The intervention is scheduled for Monday the 20th, so I've got a long week to wait......

kelso76023
08-12-2007, 07:20 AM
Here;s the update after the group session with the counselor:

Everyone showed up on time. My wife's father, 2 brothers, sister and best friend. It became appararent that my wife had been telling the others how "controlling" I was. She had told her sister when she watched our house while we were on vacation that she was expecting a package and that it was for something that she gets online for depression but her doctor knows about it and she has a prescription - but not to tell me because I'm over-vigilent on medications - and to put away her bank statement so I wouldn't find it. She had been telling her friend for the past year that I wouldn't let her get out of the house because I have to have her under my thumb.

Her dad had come to visit us the day before the session to see for himself if she seemed different - and he couldn't tell any differences.

So the session was at first an education by the counselor on how serious this addiction is. I had the pill bottles and invoices, and everyone eventually came around to realizing this. Mind you - today my wife is acting almost normal, and I too, question myself if I'm doing the right thing. My worst fear is that we will confront her and she will say that she's only taking the minimum amount and I've done the math wrong, or that she stopped taking it weeks ago, so what's the big deal?

The rest of the session was spent putting down our statements on what we will say during the intervention. If my wife agrees to get help after the first person talks, we end right there. If not, we keep going. Everyone will ask her to get help. The counselor will put me last because my statements reflect the most anger - surprise! plus I'm the one she will listen to the least.

I don't know if the marriage will survive this whole thing, - I'm doubting it at this point, but at least I know that I've done what I can to help her.

The intervention is scheduled for Monday the 20th, so I've got a long week to wait......
I feel very sorry for you and your children. Do not be suprised if she does not go to the meeting. You will be better off spending that money on a lawyer to get a divorce and custody of your child than on that counselor. It will be a long time before she hits rock bottom. She is still in the denial stage. I know you love her, but you will never trust her after all the lying she has done. Don't worry about what everybody will say. She did this to herself, not you. Save your self a lot of pain and misery. It will never be the way it was before she got on them. Keep your head up, she is the one that messed up, not you!

jules3
08-12-2007, 08:06 AM
If you want custody of your children make sure you are keeping receipts,and any other evidence of her drug use. or else no way in hell would you get custody of the kids. a good lawyer will have her hair tested for drugs...she is in bigtime denial and im sorry to say i dont think she is going to go along with your plan. Im sorry, i feel so bad for you. But your main objective right now is those kids. take care of them..:angel:

reachout
08-12-2007, 03:06 PM
Hello NW

I think you have done very well following through with this. It takes a lot of courage to face the problem head-on like this and hope for a good outcome while understanding she may not accept the help. It really has reached the point of showdown time at the Okay Corral. I have stood where you are in the position of forcing the showdown with an alcoholic partner. It scared the bejesus out of me to do it. However, it had reached the point where I had to be firm... get help to stop drinking or it's over. Never, never, never in my wildest dreams did I think I would be able to put myself in a position of being without my partner. So much love and committment had already been invested and there were young children involved. I had spent four years trying to hide the problem from family and friends. I hid from it myself the first year and a half by ignoring to really face the problem. Then I got tired of my own deception. Tired of calling in sick for him, tired of lying to friends about why I was breaking social plans, tired of lame excuses from me about why he was not at a family members special ocassion. I just got tired iof his drinking being the center of the entire household.... whether we bought groceries or not some weeks depended on whether or not he had blown the whole paycheck on booze. He was a happy drunk and I was an unhappy enabler.

So, I pushed the showdown, had the confrontation. He got drunk the next day and I packed up the kids and left. No money, no job, only a strong determination that this just could not continue in my life. For two weeks, the kids and I went on with our lives. They did not understandthe problem and were confused. I was emotionally miserable, but mentally remained strong in my determination. Two weeks went by like this and he finally came to where I wa staying. We attended his first AA meeting together. He has never had a drink since then. After a while, I returned home with the kids and all has been truly well, actually wonderful, since then. Although he did not stay in AA, he employed other measures to ensure his sobriety. Our marriage relationship grew in leaps and bounds from that scary point on. It does happen. Will it with your wife? We cannot know anything for sure concerning how another would react. We can know, however, that we have faced the truth ourselves that our lives can not continue in a destructive path with our partners. Sometimes that can mean we have to face sadness as an outcome. Sometimes, though, it can mean a renewed life together.

An intervention is not a threat although I am sure your wife will view it that way initially. If you just did not care at all, you would walk out and leave her to rot in her alcoholism. Instead, you are putting yourself in a position that stems from committment... trying to help hrer understand what her alcoholism is doing to so many people. It makes you emotionally vulnerable, I know, with the worry that this intervention might not work. Feeling like that is something I understand. Do not worry about who really believes what or what the outcome will be. You are doing what you must do in order to live with yourself. AA's well-known motto.... one day at a time.... is a good motto not just for alcoholics, but for every single person. We need to try to make today a good day and let tomorrow present itself when tomorrow comes.

Good, good wishes
reach

Lost In NW
08-14-2007, 08:22 AM
Thanks for the words of encouragement. I'm very worried at the outcome of all of this.

One more snag: I got a call yesterday from my wife's friend, and she feels she wants to confront her prior to the scheduled intervention. She has a friend who is also a drug counselor who would come with her. I don't know if this is a good idea - the confrontation would take place in our home, which the intervention counselor said is not as good as an away site. Also, I feel as if it would be much more impact if more people were there. Does any one have thoughts on this?

jules3
08-14-2007, 08:52 AM
I would say wait and only do 1 intervention..hopefully with the drug counselor

mariogreymist
08-14-2007, 09:17 AM
I agree with Jules. Invite the friend to the intervention that's planned. Generally speaking, having everyone gathered together at once has a big impact. It will be easier to get her attention with all of you at once.

reachout
08-14-2007, 11:09 AM
Hello NW

Please don't let anyone else take control of this situation from you. I am sure the friend is well meaning, but she did not see the signs or make any attempt at an intervention on her own before this. She has no professional skills anymore than you do. You have set everything up, you are making use of a professional.... leave it as is.

You are the husband, much closer to the situation and the facts of it. Much more is at stake from where you sit... your marriage and family. You are competent, you have chosen a wonderful avenue to deal with the situation. Stick to your guns! Do not let anyone sway you from your course or it will just cause more emotional upset for you.

Be strong
reach

ReadyToBeDone
08-15-2007, 11:27 PM
NW,

Hey, I just want to throw in a glimmer of hope for you here. For several years I was addicted to coke, got clean for a couple of years and then hopped on over to the pain killers. My husband knew. I mean, when the bank accounts are cleaned out, your wife loses 30 lbs and never sleeps, you know something is up, right? And then with the pills he saw the signs. He would ask at times, and of course I would get angry, accuse him of being controlling and deny the whole thing. But, and I know this may be too much info, the sex was great when i was high, so i think that's one reason her didn't push the issue too much. Also, I was very defensive about all of it. To the point of threatening divorce. But the thing is NW, i was so so so sick, and so is your wife. And I needed help. Deep down I wanted help, b/c I knew in my heart I was going to die if I stayed on that road. But, like I said, he never really pushed the issue. I wish he would have. Sometimes I wonder why he didn't love me enough to pack me up and have me put in rehab. I'm sure at the time it would've ****** me off, but it would've showed me he loved me too much to watch me kill myself.

Hon, I don't know how this is going to go for you. But either way, it is better than where you are now. I just wanted you to know that you are doing the right thing, and maybe, just maybe she wants this b/c she is too sick to do it for herself. Seriously, tell her "I love you too much to watch you kill yourself". I know you're angry at her, and she needs to know that. But you are also scared, and she need to know that too, as well as the fact that you love her.

If she does decide to get help, you two are still going to have some really, really hard times. Some of it will be on her, and some will be on you. We addicts can be a hard bunch to deal with, even when we're getting clean. Please go to Alanon. This will give you some of the guidance you need as well. It has been said before that addiction is a family disease, and that's true. The whole family has to learn how to recover and heal.

I don't know if you've ever seen the movie "when a man loves a woman" but you may want to watch it. For some reason that movie hit home with me.

I agree with reach about sticking with the original intervention plan. You are the husband, and you are in charge of protecting her. You handle this your way. If she was so concerned with doing the intervention she should've done it before you had to go asking for her help. I'm not trying to be harsh, but you asked her to participate in this, not orchestrate it. You have children with this woman, she doesn't. You need to do this however you feel is best.

Don't let anyone make you doubt your instincts, dear. You know that if she's hiding things, then she KNOWS she is doing somethng wrong. Otherwise, why the secrecy? Are you a hard person to talk to? Are you unreasonable? I don't know much about you, but from what I've read, the answer is no.

Be prepared for all the ways this intervention can go, and don't give any ultimatums that you're not prepared to follow through on. But however it goes, know in your heart that you gave it your all. And maybe, just maybe, she'll be like I was and be relieved that it is all out in the open. When you have a group of ppl talking to you out of love and concern, it can sometimes help us open up. Just try to keep the unneccessary defensiveness out of it (on both your and her parts).

Please, keep us all posted on how it goes. We're here for you.

Stay Strong,
RTBD

Lost In NW
08-16-2007, 08:55 AM
Thank you for the great posts. I was able to talk her friend out of confronting her early, so the intervention is as scheduled for this coming Monday.

Now -

What if I'm wrong? What if I've miscalculated? I know she's had 9 orders totalling 1,660 pills since April 30, and her 10th shipment was Aug 14. That works out to 15 or 16 pills a day.

Last night my wife grilled me for over an hour about what I had done with the empty pill bottles. What was I planning? I said I just had to have them out of the house. She said I was lying. I told her that she needed to tell me how many she was taking. She again said that she was taking the maximum amount which is 8 pills a day. She said that these help her with depression and that she would have no problem stopping them as she had taken them for 4 months and stopped them for 4 months as well. From what I've read, the withdrawals get worse the longer you are taking them?

I asked why don't you stop then? and she replied that there was no reason to - she doesn't get high from them, they do absolutely nothing for her other than help her depression, and why would she want to then? This is her personal business and she's taken actions to do what makes her to keep from being so depressed. I asked her why she hides it then and she replied because of the way I get - that I get obesessed.

On this board there are people taking Tramadol for long periods and not becoming addicted, or having it affecting their personality. Am I over-reacting?

In the few days since this has been going on, my anger has subsided, and I am really questioning this whole thing. I know I am not acting loving to my wife right now - we barely speak and there are no hugs, or anything. And ReadyToBeDone - sex has been pretty much non-existent for quite some time. Once every one or two months. I don't know if all of that is caused from the drugs or if it just shows a deteriorating marriage.

I'm pretty positive that at the intervention, if she refuses to go to treatment that she will file for divorce immediately because of my betrayal.

sandim
08-16-2007, 09:22 AM
I don't usually post here but after reading this thread and the advice of the regular posters, I have to agree that this intervention is the right thing to do.
Your wife has ordered an awful lot of pills in a short time. There is no legitimate physician that would order that amount of pills for her. I took tramadol, it did nothing for me but even when I took it, it was 2-50 mg tabs every 8 hours, which amounted to a maximum of 6 a day. It was prescribed for back pain.
I do think that you have to be prepared for the fact that your wife has been planting the seeds that you are so controlling with her family and friends for so long so as to discredit you when/if, you approached them with your concerns. How many of her family are aware of the previous problems with oxycontin?
Keep those bottles, keep those shipping labels. Does your wife have online access to her bank accounts? Do you know the password to it? That would be one way of finding out exactly how much she is ordering and how much she is spending a month on these pills.
Good luck, you are a brave man and I hope that she will get treatment, and aftercare for what appears to be a really serious self medication problem.
Sandi

mariogreymist
08-16-2007, 09:26 AM
Consider this NW, if your wife asked you to stop doing something that bothered her, would that be enough reason to stop? I think it would. The fact that her drug abuse is making you miserable is enough reason for her to stop. Why does she refuse?

I'll tell you why: She's an addict, and addicts continue using in spite of negative consequences of use. That's actually the technical definition of an addict. If the math says she's doing 15-16 pills a day and she claims to be taking 8, remember who to trust: math or an addict. Only one of those lies.

It's natural to have doubts about confronting a loved one. There is a huge amount of risk involved. It simply cannot be avoided, only delayed. If she won't stop using, from what you've said about how you feel, divorce is inevitable. The only way to save the marriage is for her to get clean.

And one last thing to let you know how untrue her claims are: She is taking a pain killer to cure her depression. Do the math.

maggie0704
08-16-2007, 10:48 AM
Wow,
I rarely read entire threads, but this one caught my eye and i've read the whole thing.
Let me start by saying that I will pray for you and your kids. I can imagine how hard this must be for you, but you have to do what is best, and having the intervention is for the best.
You see, I myself was in the same exact position as your wife is. I wasn't married at the time, was living alone and very very depressed. I was on a different opiate at the time, but i've also been on Ultram. The crazy thing is that my family had an intervention for me, i went to rehab, was clean for 5months, then "borrowed" a few Ultram from a friend when i had a headache one day.....i was told by everyone they were NOT addictive. But i knew, from the moment it "kicked in" that it was. And i hid that from my now husband....and the Ultram is what i relapsed on.
No one knew i was "addicted" to it, bcuz my own doctor (who was not prescribing them to me for my headaches) even said they weren't!!!!
Anyways, my point in this post is to tell you about my experience when my family surprised me with the intervention.
I was shocked, hurt, betrayed, in SERIOUS denial......and i was basically forced to go. Bcuz my dad said if i didn't, that he'd have me Baker Acted on the grounds that i'd said i wanted to die in past. I have depression, and opiates only INTENSIFY depression. Your wife is not getting better with Ultram, she's just self-medicating....bcuz once she doesn't have that med. in her, she drops down emotionally, and needs it to function. Bcuz she's now dependent on it physically.
One thing that i think needs to be emphasized during the intervention is the fact that your wife says she's taking them for her depression. THEY ARE NOT FOR DEPRESSION!!! So there isn't any logical reason for her to try to "cover-up" her taking them. Like i had chronic pain, so at the time of the intervention, i used that reason for me taking them.....she's not even suffering from pain, so that knocks out a BIG excuse that addicts give.
I don't want to make this too long, so let me just say this. As i said before, i was FURIOUS when i walked into my intervention, but i went....kicking and screaming....and i tried to escape once my parents left and it hit me that i was in rehab.
I had nothing on me bcuz they took all my personal ID and cell phone, i was in a different city, yet i ran out of the place crazy angry.
Then it hit me.....i was in such a dark hole at that point, and i was so unhappy and SO depressed, that i felt like even if i could get a ride home, i DIDN"T want to go back to that life. Bcuz i hated life......and i couldn't see it getting any worse.
So i stayed.....and within 2days, my entire outlook changed and a burden was lifted from me. And i had gone from being angry, hateful, resentful, betrayed...to thankful, peaceful, etc.... Of course there was physical suffering for a while, but i felt like i'd been finally given a chance to heal.
And i'm saying all this bcuz i can almost feel what your wife must be feeling right now. She's scared....scared to not have that medication bcuz she doesn't want to "go there" in her mind. Depression is horrible, and escaping is the 1st thing we try to do when we start to feel uncomfortable.
I'll pray that your wife will have a change of heart. I can assume this intervention is going to be difficult....but if u stick to a plan, that the counselor tells u to, then u have more of a chance. If she feels that she has no choice, or she will possibly lose her children, she'll be more abt to go.
I know some may not believe in force, but sometimes it is necessary and once that person is exposed to rehab, THEN it is their responsibility to either ignore it, or take it and run with it.
I know how scared i was at the idea of not having my "crutch" to "feel better".....but only when i was off it all, did i realize that the so called "crutch" was actually worsening my depression. And i felt peace for the first time in my life.
I will pray SOOOO hard for your family. Try to empasize how you want the old wife back, how you miss the old wife...and that you love her enough to do whatever it takes to help her. Hopefully she will take the gift you are offering her.
DO NOT doubt what you are doing.....you are doing something that most men would shy away from. And either just leave their wife, or shove it under the carpet. The work that you are doing to help her, is proof of how much you care. She will see this in time.

ReadyToBeDone
08-16-2007, 08:53 PM
You are NOT betraying her, regardless of how she sees it. You are loving her, and trying to help her get well. You are so brave for what your are doing, even tho you know it may cost you a lot financially, emotionally, and relationship-wise. You love her enough to risk that in order for her to get better. She may not be able to see that now, but I'm looking at you and I see it...and once she gets clean for a while, if she does, then she will too.

NW, don't doubt yourself. You are letting her manipulate you. She has the problem not you. Like someone said before, do the math with the pills....you have the evidence right there. Also, she is using it for depression, not pain. That is abuse in and of itself.

Her taking the pills is your business, regardless of what she says, because it effects you and your life too. If she wants to walk away, you can't stop her. But please realize, you're wife isn't saying those things, the drug is. She's not thinking clearly right now. I remember things I said to my hubby when I was using that were so ugly, mean and just uncalled for. Now that I'm clean, I'd never say those things to him and I cringe whenever I think of when I did it before.

You're doing the right thing, NW. You're doing the only decent, honorable thing you can right now. You are protecting your wife...even though it may be from herself. You're a good husband, don't doubt that.

Keep us updated, and stay strong.

RTBD

reachout
08-17-2007, 08:44 AM
Hello NW

The weekend is coming up here. I know that there is probably some anxiety building in you. Just a reminder to try and stay mellow as interaction takes place with you and WIfe the next couple of days. Okay? Stay clear of her if need be. Force levelness into your words and voice level. This is a good thing that is in place. I am sending up a prayer right now that God's spirit is a guest at the intervention. Many of the spirits of those on the board will be sitting in also.

God Bless you with peace.
reach

Lost In NW
08-17-2007, 12:02 PM
Thanks everyone for the words of encouragement. I actually was getting away for a couple of days with her dad and brothers - something we had planned quite awhile back - and a new snag has developed!

Her sister stayed the night at our house last night, and I am scheduled to come back Saturday morning. The counselor called me and said that my wife's friend and sister had called her and she thought they might confront my wife anyway before the intervention - so I called her sister and she said that "no" they weren't going to confront her, so I thought all was good. Then I get a call from my wife saying that she just got on email from her Dad's wife saying "sorry to hear about your problem with pain killers"!!! My wife asked me who I've told - I put her off saying I was on another call, called the counselor real fast and asked what to do. The counselor suggested I simply tell her that I told her stepmom and that I wasn't going to keep this secret anymore.

Well it hit the fan then - she went off on me telling me that I had no right to tell her family, I've now isolated her from her family for life, could she hate me any more?, I'm a control freak, she doesn't have a problem, etc., which from the posts here I know is how an addict will react. I told her I wouldn't argue about this, and she ended the call with "I hope you get in an accident and die"

I contacted the counselor again and she said she shouldn't be alone so I called her sister, who fortunately is still there, and let her in on what was going on. Her sister does have some background in social counseling so I kind of have to leave it up to her. I'm writing this from the public library in a town 100 miles from home and am going to have to wait to see what happens, as I had to get here by ferry and a long drive. In a way I'm relieved, but I hope this doesn't preclude her from getting help.

reachout
08-17-2007, 12:34 PM
Hi

Well, I guess mellow just went out the window, Buddy. Sad smiles and an ironic chuckle. You stand strong, okay? be an example of sticking to it for your wife.. sticking to it is going to be her exacy pathway if she chooses to fight the addiction.

You kept a real level head when you told her you were not going to argue about it. Be proud of yourself that you could maintain reasonable thinking and a level head in an irrational situation that got explosive. Sadly, a bit of a preview of things to come, but a reality that you seem more than competent to handle.

Backwards blessings... we talk about these sometimes on this board. I am sorry for the turmoil you might be feeling right now and for sure Wife is, but how good that her sister is there, that you are not. better probably for both of you. Keep God in the loop, okay? Well, I think He is in it anyway whether invited or not.... but an invitation is always appreciated.

Hugs
reach

Lost In NW
08-18-2007, 08:36 AM
Well hopefully things have blown over some. My wife's sister talked to her and explained that I had told the family because I was concerned and had turned to professional help and this was the course recommended. She told my wife that she had contacted a doctor about the Tramadol (which she had to find out more) and that it isn't a drug to be used to treat depression. My wife said that she knew what the oxy was like when she was addicted to that and this was nothing like it -so she wasn't addicted. Her sister said that sometimes when people are addicted to something they aren't aware of it.

My wife disagreed with her sister about the danger of the Tramadol, but things have simmered down, and it sounds like the intervention is still on. The big problem now will be to get her to her friend's house without being suspicious. She is aware that I am planning something but doesn't know what.

Thank you all for listening to me rant and rave through this!

flushed
08-18-2007, 10:14 PM
I am so, so sorry for all of your troubles. I took my last Tramadol in Feb of this year. I was only taking 3 50mgs. per day and the withdrawals were horrific. There is no way that your wife can be taking that many and just stop at a moments notice and not have any side affects or withdrawals.

I took Tram for the anti-depressant qualities too. It boosts the seratonin levels in your brain and that is why you get a sense of well-being. You don't feel high, you just feel great.

There are all kinds of people that you will "meet" on the internet that can rationalize any behavior that you can think of.

I hope that your wife comes to her senses soon because it sounds like she is on the verge of losing a very kind and caring husband.

((Hugs))

ReadyToBeDone
08-19-2007, 12:32 AM
Hey, NW. Just wanted you to know that I've been thinking about you, and trying to send positive energy your way. However this whole thing eventually turns out, remember that you did the right thing by intervening. I know this hasn't been easy on any of you, and sweetie, things won't be easy for awhile, however she chooses to go. But at least maybe this won't keep rocking on. Stay strong. If she gets help and gets clean, she will realize how much you care for her to go through all of this for her.

RTBD

bobby56
08-19-2007, 04:11 PM
YES ULTRAM, TRAMADOL IS ADDICTIVE!!!!
Tramadol works on the same receptor sites as any opiate and therefore is addictive. It sounds as if your wife might be experiencing a manic phase of a Bi Polar Disorder. Spending money like crazy is one of the criteria for diagnosis for BiPolar, therefore she should be seen by a Psychiatrist for a proper diagnosis. Yes, tramadol does create the addictive craving and behaviors consistent with any opiate, to an addicted person.
In order for her to be withdrawn, she would need to be tapered off slowly so as to not cause the withdrawl syndrome that is usual with any opiate.
In addition, using it above the recommended doesages can result in seizures and withdrawl without medically tapering can also lead to seizures and/or restless leg syndrome.
My suggestion is to get some medical advice from an Addiction Specialist and follow his/her recommendations.
Good luck and we are all pulling for you and your wife.

jules3
08-20-2007, 07:59 AM
Lost are you still going thru with the intervention? when is it again? you sound like such a wonderful husband...if she doesnt co-operate, she doesnt deserve you..i know you have a history and love her...but if she doesnt stop, she will end up dead.

reachout
08-20-2007, 09:33 AM
Hi NW

Thinking that intervention is taking place about now. I know it is today, but not sure of the time. Prayers are going up right now for all to go well and that your wife finds a sense of relief that it is out in the open and the path paved for her getting better. I know others are joining in with me with prayers and hope right now.

reach

mariogreymist
08-20-2007, 02:44 PM
Lost, I know it seems like a dark time when you are down at your last straw. Remember, your life is not over, and neither is your wife's. If she accepts the help she is offered at the intervention you had planned for today, you are embarking on a rewarding trip with her. It will be a difficult trip for you, no matter what she chooses. There is a simple prayer used in AA that I keep in mind whenever life seems darkest. If I repeat it a few times, I always feel better, and sometimes I can even laugh off what seemed so terrible moments before.

God,

Grant me serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can and
Wisdom, to know the difference.

It's funny how often I used to let my ego drive me into dark places based on things over which I had no control. I say the Serenity Prayer, and the differences are almost always revealed. Sometimes I discover there is something I can do, usually I just have to let go of an unreasonable expectation.

You are showing the courage to do what is within your power. Don't let anyone take that away from you.

All our prayers are with you and your family today.

Lost In NW
08-21-2007, 07:53 AM
SUCCESS!!

Thank you everyone for your support and prayers. It was a very difficult day, but the mission was accomplished.

The day started with my wife's sister being apprehensive about the intervention, since my wife had told her that she had only taken 2 pills on Saturday morning and nothing since. I told her that it didn't make sense, as she wasn't experiencing any uncomfortable withdrawal. I checked with the detox center and they said that for sure she would have had some withdrawal at that point had she been telling the truth.

The intervention was supposed to take place at my wife's friends house. Well, my wife didn't return calls - and so we went to Plan B. We did the intervention at our house. We all met at a restaurant and her sister called to see what she was up to. She was going out for an errand so we waited a few minutes, drove up to the house, parking the cars out of sight and came in to wait for her return.

She came in around 4 and her sister met her and took her to where we were all waiting. Her friend's husband took the kids out for ice cream. She was stunned into silence. Her friend started out talking to her and my wife kept shaking her head saying you guys are wrong - I don't have a problem. Her dad spoke and started crying, which started to make her eyes well up, but she still denied having any problem. Her brothers spoke and she was still shaking her head. In between, the counselor would say that we're here to help and that she can't do this alone. Her sister spoke and finally I did. I was the only one that my wife lashed out at. The counselor directed her anger away and told her that she needed help kicking this drug. My wife started saying that she can handle getting off of this alone, just to taper down. At this point the counselor dumped the bag of empty pill bottles, fedex envelopes and torn up invoices in front of her, and showed her a list of all the purchases she had made and said 'this is a record of how much you are taking, which is way over what anyone should be taking - no, you can't do it alone'. My wife looked pretty defeated at that point and she changed from 'I don't have a problem' to 'I have things I have to do' and 'I'm not leaving the kids'. She still seemed to be holding strong, and the counselor kept talking to her and finally she wore down and said she would get help.

We packed a bag and it seemed like forever to get her to the car, after her saying good-bye to the kids. I kept worrying that she would change her mind. The detox center was waiting, and her brothers and sister drove her there while her dad and I followed. She was staring blankly as they ushered her in, but she did hug everyone as she went in.

It was a long day. I finally got home around 11:30PM.

So the first step is done, much to my surprise. I know I'm going to need some counseling after this as it had me doubting my sanity and I have a lot of hurt, anger and trust issues to overcome.

Thank you so much - all of you - for the advice and support. Without it, I never would have recognized how badly I was being manipulated and how severe her addiction was.

THANK YOU!!

reachout
08-21-2007, 08:12 AM
Hello NW

I am sure you are physically and emotionally exhausted today and some rest is certainly needed for you. God bless you for having the courage to follow through on this hard task in your efforts to stand by your wife and get her the help she needs. I know we all share in your hope that she is able to accept and follow through on what she learns in rehab.

Buddy, the trust and hurt are normal. Who wouldn't feel extremely guarded after being deceived? I do believe, though, that with counseling, the relationship can be repaired if wife meets her obligations. Those vows we took often talk about being 'helpmates' to one another. You have certainly been hers and I hope she can find her way back to being yours. Wife's addiction issues were never with you in mind even though it has greatly impacted your life and the kids'. It is a personal hell we live in when we fall into drug abuse. It is not somewhere anyone wants to be and even though we might stuff down all the guilt we feel secretly using too many drugs, believe me, it is there deep insuide us.

This is a big turning point in your lives together. While sometimes it does not turn out well, often it turns out to be the disaster that allows a whole new beginning in relationships. Take some time to try and relax while Wife is not home. Try to enjoy the kids.

Talk soon
reach

emsmom
08-21-2007, 08:23 AM
I just want to wish you all the best. You are a wonderful husband, and I hope you do not have any doubts.

I too, have a supportive husband - who it helping me get off narcotics. Today, I'll see my doctor and we'll discuss a plan (he's helped me before with prescribed meds).

Good luck to you - and don't look back.

Kate

mariogreymist
08-21-2007, 10:15 AM
This has been quite a journey for you NW, and I am proud of you. It's never easy to stand up and say "enough" to a loved one. We all have some level of fear that we will be rejected in the end; that he or she loves something more than us. In the end, we have no control over that. We control only our actions, and sometimes doing the right thing involves risk. It is at those moments that courage is tested. You have passed the first big test in this process.

Addiction is not an unbeatable disease, and your wife has a difficult journey ahead of her. As she goes down that road, there will be difficult times for her and sometimes it might seem that she has put other things ahead of you. In order for an addict to stay clean, it's necessary to make sobriety the most important thing in our lives.

The good news is that recovered addicts tend to have tremendous emotional capabilities. We empathize well, and genuinely care for our fellow man. This means the people in our lives get more love from us than ever before - even if they knew us before we used. The process of recovery is one of self revelation, and a centered person can offer love and emotional support of the best kind.

Have faith, and be open to travelling the road with your wife. There are good alanon groups in the Northwest, and if you look, you might find some new friends for life as well as a new stage of your marriage.

God bless you.