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  • L4-l5 herniated disc I'm a 27 male in good health

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    Old 04-30-2017, 05:03 AM   #1
    Adam5543
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    L4-l5 herniated disc I'm a 27 male in good health

    Hey everyone one I'm Adam this is my first post ever to a board. Anyways about 4 or 5 months ago I started having a pain in my left side hip, almost like it needed to pop that is the only way I know how to explain. I didn't think a whole lot about it except it just was uncomfortable. A few weeks went by and I got a lot of pain in my left butt cheek. I was sure I had some sort of sciatica issues so I started to stretch all those muscles and tendons. My pain got worse to where I could not put on my shoes or cloths all that well. I could not sit in my truck with out this intense pain for like 15 seconds then it would pull out and it was ok. I thought maybe a few weeks of ice rest and stretching would fix no worries. About a month into everyday pain I decided to see a chiropractor. They did an xray and it looked bad. My sacrum and l5 were out of place it is clear on xray it don't look right lol. So they started doing adjustments I went there for 6 weeks 2 times a week with little to no relief at all if anything it got worse. I decided to go to a different chiropractor, she did a little more intense things and put me on a rolling table where a barrel thing would roll under my back. She gave me a good bit of relief but I was still in a lot of pain. My next step is went to an orthopedic specialist and he ordered an MRI. The MRI showed that I had a herniated disc at l4. He ordered an oral steroid which helped a little but as soon as that was over it all came back. Then I got an epidural steroid injection Monday it is now Sunday. I've had very little relief maybe some the first day from the numbing medication and a little the day after but none after that. I am suppose to see a surgeon if the epidural. Does not help after 2 weeks. I have done my research and a lot of people in my shoes seen to get a lot of success from the microdicectomy and I really feel like that is my only road for relief. I have been in pain all day and night for 4 months. I can't sleep well and I have to keep on working everyday. I have no insurance so I'm paying all out of pocket which is the least of my worries. I want to get back to my life I have an amazing wife and a 5 yr old boy that is my world and I feel like they have lost my in so many ways. I will keep anyone who is interested up to date.

     
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    Old 04-30-2017, 09:20 AM   #2
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    Re: L4-l5 herniated disc I'm a 27 male in good health

    Welcome to the board. I understand what you have done thus far but would like you to clarify about going to the "orthopedic specialist" who ordered the MRI. I am just curious if this doctor is an orthopedic spine surgeon, why he would refer you to a surgeon if the epidural doesn't work. I am just trying to understand the process as usually one goes to either a fellowship-trained orthopedic spine surgeon or a neurosurgeon. A few will only see patients who require surgery, but most provide a continuum of care, from ordering diagnostic testing, to providing a diagnosis to sending the patient to the appropriate person for conservative treatments such as physical therapy, epidural steroid injections, etc. if these have been tried and failed, then he/she begins to explore whether surgery is appropriate.

    The reason why I want to know if the "orthopedic specialist" was a spine only orthopedic doctor is to try to understand his level of expertise. The ortho spine surgeon or neurosurgeon might see something on the MRI that this doctor missed. (I am wondering why the chiropractors felt there were issues in the L5-S1 area if the only issue is a bulging disc at L4.)

    Most people do not jump from having one ESI to surgery. Injections are usually in a protocol of three. Often one injection does not help but it gets the healing process going. A second injection is given. If it helps, then a third may be given. If it does not help, then it is usually thought there is no point to trying it a third time.

    The discectomy often sounds like a wonderful solution to all the pain someone is feeling...but it often sets in motion a pattern of repeat surgeries. I don't know the statistics on how many patients end up with just the one surgery.

    I look forward to your clarification about the ortho specialist.

     
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    Old 05-02-2017, 03:57 AM   #3
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    Re: L4-l5 herniated disc I'm a 27 male in good health

    hey thank you for responding to my thread. Honestly the specialist is an orthopedic spine specialist. I'm not sure that he is a surgeon just because I have an appointment to talk to a surgeon in his office and it's not him. I'm not sure why only the one injection. I do not have insurance and the injection cost me 1600 for the one. I think maybe he is not trying to bleed me dry and still not be fixed. I have done alot of research and I believe I will be getting the microdiscetomy I believe is what it is called. I have an appointment this Thursday with the surgeon. I am on a low dose of methadone. I've been in a methadone treatment center for a year now. I had a problem with prescription pain killers and here I am needing them once again. The methadone is helping 90% with the pain but I have no other pain relievers nor have they proscribed me any. I wake up everynight at 2:30 in unbearable pain I have broke down some nights where the pain is just too much. I feel that if I was not on the methadone my pain would be so intence I would have to go to the emergency room. I just feel since I have no insurance that the Drs don't want to work with me or they are giving me different treatments so they won't be out so much. This has taken my life away from me I only work and lay on the couch that's my life and has been for 4 months. I have alot of confidence that the microdiscetomy is going to be my answer. I have also read where a herniated disc rarely causes pain and I read somewhere that if the pain lasts longer than 12 weeks it may not be a disc issue that it may have been misdiagnosed.

    I know I can't trust all I read online but I have no answers. I have bounced from one Drs office to another all for same issue and I keep throwing money at it with 0 aNd I mean 0 results. The pain has just changed it's shooting pulsing stabbing pain that goes from the top of my butt left side and travles the static nerve down my cheek and down threw the outside of my leg down to my ankle and my foot goes numb also. I hope to get sum answers Thursday's and I will keep you updated.

    My wife works in a small office. She makes decent money but no insurance because is is such a small office. Well my job offers insurance but with a 360$ Bill per pay period and a 12,500$ deductable so insurance really is pointless I can't pay insurance and pay for my house or food light water ...... you get the point. I really have no options. I have heard about sponsors in the hospital but I don't know anything about that. I am gonna explore all my options and I may be paying the hospital for the rest of time. I did read the price of the surgery is 15,000-50,000 so u know that is encouraging lol

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    Old 05-02-2017, 08:02 PM   #4
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    Re: L4-l5 herniated disc I'm a 27 male in good health

    I'm so sorry!! I have 2 little kids too and I had many surgeries. I know how hard it is to live with pain daily and try to survive!
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    Old 05-04-2017, 04:29 AM   #5
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    Re: L4-l5 herniated disc I'm a 27 male in good health

    purplegirl
    Thank you for your support I really hope they will do the surgery. I do not have insurance and I've read that back surgery is an elective surgery so I hope they don't want all the money first. I have never been with out insurance until last yr so this is all new to me.

     
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    Old 05-04-2017, 11:20 AM   #6
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    Re: L4-l5 herniated disc I'm a 27 male in good health

    Oh I can't imagine back surgery being elective lol but to the insurance company I guess it is. Maybe they can work out a payment plan for you?
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    Old 05-05-2017, 04:37 AM   #7
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    Re: L4-l5 herniated disc I'm a 27 male in good health

    So I went to talk with a spine surgeon yesterday. He told me that I have a hard type of disc herniation to do surgery on. He explained that a good surgery the disc would have this definite knuckle to it where it's a bump kind of like the eraser end of a pencil. The herniation that I have is more like a flat tire and the disc sticks out like a hill and it is pushing the nerves pretty badly. He said he may not get all the herniation out and he is scared that I may still not be fixed even with surgery. It is weird because the MRI showes the whole space where the nerves run, has my disc in it,it looks like I should have pain down both sides but all of my pain is on the left side and leg it is really crazy. I am at the end of my rope I've been in pain everyday for 5 months and he is telling me that the disc can fix it's self with time possibly. But I have Been suspended from work because I am in to much pain. It looks like I am gonna have to find a new job where I'm not so physical. I don't know how easy it's going to be because I've always worked out side and hard now I'm being told I need to get a job behind a desk or the disc could reherniate.

    My whole life is about to change. I'm not going to be who I want to be and I got a feeling I will be dealing with this problem for the rest of my life.

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    Old 05-05-2017, 10:30 AM   #8
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    Re: L4-l5 herniated disc I'm a 27 male in good health

    I am So sorry. I would think also sitting all day isn't good either. After all my surgeries I can't sit or stand long at all and can't work now. I understand the frustration and I know just how depressing this is. Is this Dr looking to do open back surgery or laser ?
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    Old 05-06-2017, 04:03 AM   #9
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    Re: L4-l5 herniated disc I'm a 27 male in good health

    I'm not sure he left me with alot of questions. He told me he is going to talk to other colleagues and he will let me know what the plan is. He did tell me that the surgery he would have to go in on both sides of my back take out some bone on both sides and disc tissue on both sides. But he did not seem like he wanted to do the surgery. He just acted as if he would not be sure to get it where the pressure is off the nerve. He is scared I will pay like 50,000 and then still be in the pain and I would be mad at him because I still would be responsible for the bill and be in same position. So I am still unsure what is going to happen at this time.

     
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    Old 05-06-2017, 04:19 PM   #10
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    Re: L4-l5 herniated disc I'm a 27 male in good health

    I almost never suggest this, but it might be interesting to send a copy of your MRI to one of those laser surgery places that advertises on the internet. They review MRIs for free and suggest what a person might need.

    Also, if you could swing it financially, it is always a good idea to get a second opinion if you are really contemplating having surgery. I would recommend a consult with a fellowship-trained orthopedic spine surgeon ( not any other type of orthopedic surgeon!). The training is similar to a neurosurgeon but they often approach things slightly differently.

    I might add that any patient, whether they have paid out of pocket or have insurance covering the surgery, is devastated when a surgery turns out with results that are less than expected. After having had three lumbar surgeries, including two fusions, I can assure you that most spine surgery is a crapshoot. There is no way to predict who will have a successful outcome. In my case, my first fusion was considered "medically successful" (because it accomplished what the surgeon set out to do), but a year later, my symptoms were the very same as they had been prior to surgery. At least I wasn't worse off as some turn out to be!

     
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    Old 05-06-2017, 08:19 PM   #11
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    Re: L4-l5 herniated disc I'm a 27 male in good health

    Also thinking can you apply for Medicaid??
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    Old 05-07-2017, 05:30 AM   #12
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    Re: L4-l5 herniated disc I'm a 27 male in good health

    I hate to hear that . I have researched alot on the microdiscetomy and I know there is alot of success at least what I keep reading the studies go on only like 2 years and the patients are still in good shape after the 2 year check up. But when I went to the surgeon Thursday I saw the MRI for the first time and my herniation is more of a bulge like a flat tire. And he said it would require a different surgery it starts with a V I do not remember the name I wish I had took a pen and paper. The surgeon I talked to was kind of young maybe mid 30's and I know he had to go to school for a good long time so maybe he just has not had enough time in the field to be 100% confident. He just kept running his hands threw his hair, and when we started the conversation he said it all just depends on how aggressive I want to attack this thing. I told him I was at the end of my rope I have been doing the conservative thing for 5 months with it only getting worse every month that goes by. I am not sleeping and I have a family and a 5 yr old boy that wants to play and I can't, i am missing my life and I am just looking for some relief. When i told him that he started asking what all I have done conservative? I told him months of chiropractics I have had an injection I have taken oral steroids prednisone which is the only thing that helped at all. Then he asked if i had seen any other drs about this and i have seen the er dr I saw an ortho spine specialist I had seen chiros and then I was in his office, again let me remind everyone I am paying all out of pocket, let me also remind you that one steroid injection into your spine cost ruffly 1,600$ and they took it down to about 1,300$ because I was a self pay. I have spent every paycheck for the last 5 months on my back and I have not got not one step closer to getting any better. The surgeon told me that with time and physical therapy that it could get enough off the nerves that the pain goes away. I have not been able to do alot of the exercises because the pain is too much. He wrote me a higher dose of prednisone and I started taking it on Friday, It is helping alot but it is almost like a pain pill where i start hurting around the time I am suppose to take my next dose so I feel when I am out the pain will return and it's only a 12 day tapering thing so I can't just keep taking them as far as I know. So I saw the surgeon on thurs day at 3 and I have not heard anything yet. I was told to call the finance lady to find out how to pay for all this and so I called her Friday and she didn't even know what kind of surgery I needed to get a price for haha so I really left with no more knowledge or answers of how to fix this. I did see my MRI but it is mine anyways they would have to give them to me any time I ask for them. I was told by work on Wednesday that I was being suspended from work because I had to go home at lunch and at 3 the day before because the pain was too much. The day I went home at 3 I was done with my scedual the boss just has us ride around untill 430 to go home so I went home when I finished at 3 and the next day I just was in too much pain so I went home at lunch time. I have no income now my wife has the whole load as of now. I am thinking about going to work as long as the steroid keeps me out of pain and leave again when I run out I just need a pay check I don't make alot of money so every penny counts and the dr said I was not gonna die or peorlize myself it just hurt so I can bite the bullet and deal with it as long as i can.

    In reality we live pay check to pay check. So Medicare won't even cover my 5 year old. I have a 600 a month payment and a 12,000 dollar deductable if I got insurance threw my job before they cover anything and that is the real numbers I would never meet that ever well I would this year lol but it's open enrollment and that time has come and gone. Hopefully I get an answer this week about what the plan is. I want to do the surgery. I just think this is my only option for a real chance to recovery and not have to deal with this for 6 more months or a year or I may never get relife. I wake up at 230 every night and I can't get any kind of relife from the intence pain. I take methadone 55 mg every day I have to go to a clinic every morning they open at 5 so I lay awake untill 430 and I go get my dose it's been the only thing that helps with the pain except now the prednisone it kicks in after about an hour I sleep untill 730 sometime but most of the time I am awake from 230 till I go to work and I work all day and they give me grief about hurting and going home 2 days early only time I have done that this whole time. my boss won't even let me work a half day when I have an appointment he makes me take the whole day off then when I asked for a raise he told me I have taken alot of days off I had to remind him he made me take the whole days off. I scheduled my appointments at like 430 or 5 and I am the only person in the company to bring a dr note every time I have been out no-one has ever brought In a note I asked everyone there is only 6 of us so i figured it out fast.

    I have laid here and cried myself back tosleep I'm a grown man with high tolerance to pain but this is a different level of pain and it won't stop and I started hurting the second week in January so this is not something new. I just don't know I read alot of success and I hear good things and then I hear bad stuff but most seem to be 10 yrsold if it's bad or a Fusion surgery so i have high hopes. I would just hate to do surgery and come out worse and regret doing it at all when if I would just have waited it may have healed enough to get out of pain. The MRI showed the disc across the whole back of the vertibre pressing completely against the nerve so I don't know if it can go back on it's own or not. I am able to do most of the herniated disc exercises now with the prednisone so I am doing this about 4 times a day and trying to keep active so I don't lock up. I am going to wait to see what the surgeon says first and then gonna get a second opinion. I just had to pay this guy 100$ just to see him. I vant fo that evrry appointment.Thank you for your responses and keep them coming I need all I can get

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    Old 05-08-2017, 03:51 PM   #13
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    Re: L4-l5 herniated disc I'm a 27 male in good health

    You should take some time selecting the surgeon. Other than deciding to have surgery, the selection of the surgeon is the most important decision you will make. Be sure whoever you choose has done the procedure many times and that the hospital has a good rating as far as the rate of infection goes.

    Maybe if you go to a large teaching hospital you would have a better chance of getting a discounted rate for paying cash.

     
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    Old 05-09-2017, 04:47 AM   #14
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    Re: L4-l5 herniated disc I'm a 27 male in good health

    Thank u for the response I live where there are great medical services and they have the best in alot of services. It is a teaching hospital also. I am waiting on the response from the surgeon that I talked to the other day and see what he has to say I have already paid him to do this anyways, but I have another surgeon in mind that a friend recommended to me and she had alot of amazing things to say. I know you have to research alot before just trusting a person to take a rasor blade to my spine and trust not to hurt me it's a scary thing. I really didn't get a good vibe from the guy he just came in saying let's be as aggressive as u wanna be with it then he turned around when I said I'm game and started talking conservative. I understand not to just jump into surgery but I have been down the conservative road for the last 5 months with zero success I have actually gotten worse where it started very slightly almost like my hip need to pop then it only hurt and stand and sit now I am in constant 8 to 10 pain with no relive enless I'm laying on my stomach and I have to move to find one spot where it is not as intence.

    The surgeon told me that pain killers would not help me but I do take 55 mg of liquid methadone and that helps alot I lay awake from 230 till 430 every morning bec the clinic opens doors at 5 and that is how I have been living for 5 months. I can barely drive my self in my pick up I have a full sized truck and I can barely sit in it with out being in 10 pain and I can't get in my wife's car at all. I have to sit almost laying across my center console it is not really safe but I can not get my whole family up so my wife can drive me to get my dose every morning at 430 so it kinda is what it is. I wish there was something I could take at night for the pain because the methadone wares off by about 11 at night and I wake up at midnight hurting then at 230 and I lay awake most mornings till I get my dose then it takes an hour to kick in. I was working up untill last Wednesday so I was only getting like 4 hours of sleep every night but I would come home and nap from like 6 in the evening till like 830 and I would miss all my family time I have a wife and a 5 yr old that is my entire world both of them are I miss my family my life my wife and my son I am really getting depressed and the pain on top makes me angry and I'm getting to the end of my rope. I am very good an managing my stress and anger I always have been I'm not one to lash out so I do not take it out on anyone but when I wake up at 230 and I'm exhausted I lay there and cry some nights it's only way to keep from just going plum crazy.

    I have been on the couch for 4 months now bec the memory foam mattress keeps me in one spot all night and I wake up and I can't move, at least on the couch I can roll off to my knees and push off. I am only 27 and I feel like 107. This is one experience that has really humbled me I just keep praying and I keep going to church and trying anointed with oil I just keep thanking God for the good times and thanking him for humbling me in this experience. We all take life for granted and we forget how fragile it is and when you go threw something like this you need a strong anchor and for me it has been god and my family. I have no idea if I could do this if I was alone and I know I would have broken down probably completely with out my wife and son. I thank all of you for going threw this with me. I love reading the responses I get and I love the tips and it helps to know I'm not alone In this. I keep on pushing every day some are better than others and I keep on praying for the good days. I hope I can resolve this soon weather that be surgery or I find a good alternate conservative option I dunno but I will keep this forum open and I write on here about every day or every other day. I will keep all posted on what new news I find out and see what happens.

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    Old 05-09-2017, 06:40 AM   #15
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    Re: L4-l5 herniated disc I'm a 27 male in good health

    If you didn't get a good feeling from the neurosurgeon you saw, I would not go back. The fact that he seemed unsure of how to proceed would make me uncomfortable.

    Even though you say you tried conservative treatments for five months, it is possible the things you tried were not helpful to your situation. Had you had the MRI at that point? The chiropractor may have been doing things that made things worse and increased the pressure on the nerve.

    Did you go through a course of physical therapy with someone who specializes in spinal issues? There are specific exercises you can do that work to move the disc off the spinal nerve. Then it is also important to strengthen all surrounding muscles of the core and back.

    My guess is that after this long, the disc is not going to heal on its own.

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