It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Back Problems Message Board

  • Disc replacement surgery

  • Post New Thread   Closed Thread
    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Old 04-15-2004, 11:33 AM   #1
    nycgirl25
    Member
    (female)
     
    nycgirl25's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2004
    Location: NY
    Posts: 69
    nycgirl25 HB User
    Disc replacement surgery

    Hi Everyone

    Can anyone please give me information on Disk Replacement Surgery, I am supposed to have a fusion in the coming weeks but my Dr's had be see another orthpedic surgeon who said I was a good candidate for this. The only thing is that its not yet approved by the FDA here in the states and I would be part of a University studies.

    Does anyone have any information on this?

    Has anyone experienced this and if so how is the surgery, hospital stay, recovery, etc..


    Thanks

     
    Sponsors Lightbulb
       
    Old 04-15-2004, 05:32 PM   #2
    carol632
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    carol632's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Nov 2003
    Location: Missouri
    Posts: 2,128
    carol632 HB User
    Re: Disc replacement surgery

    [COLOR=DarkRed][FONT=Palatino Linotype]If you will type "artificial disc replacement" into your web browser, it should bring up lots of sites for you to get your answers. Maybe someone here can tell you all about it, but I only know a little bit and that knowledge is second hand. If you qualify for it, that would be wonderful; certainly much better than the barbaric fusions.
    Good luck.

    Carol[/FONT][/COLOR]
    __________________
    2 lami's, 3 fusions
    bone spur removal
    cerv. fusion, 1 level
    morphine pump

     
    Old 04-16-2004, 12:03 AM   #3
    injured betty
    Inactive
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Feb 2004
    Posts: 2,135
    injured betty HB User
    Re: Disc replacement surgery

    nycgirl: why do you need disc replacement? Specifics?

    It seems like the new buzz word lately. I am just wondering if everyone needs who is being told that they need it. Surgery is not a step to be taken lightly.

     
    Old 04-16-2004, 05:14 AM   #4
    briley
    Inactive
     
    Join Date: Feb 2004
    Posts: 22
    briley HB User
    Re: Disc replacement surgery

    I can tell you first hand about disc replacement surgery. As a matter of fact, I had it done exactly 4 months ago at the L5-S1 area of the lumbar spine. I had the procedure done at the Hughston Clinic in Columbus, GA with Dr. Kenneth Burkus as my physician. I would do it all over again. My back hurts only when I over do it. However, I still suffer with nerve pain primarily in the left leg and foot and I am still on pain medication for that. My doctor feel that eventuall when the nerves have had time to heal themselves, I will be pain free. And yes, I am in an FDA study because the procedure has not yet been approved. If you can get this done, I recommend it because it is the way of the future for degenerative disc disease. Good luck.

     
    Old 04-16-2004, 05:15 AM   #5
    MelissaMay
    Junior Member
     
    MelissaMay's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2004
    Posts: 12
    MelissaMay HB User
    Re: Disc replacement surgery

    nyc girl
    please check out my post (Failed disc replacement, need info on BMP fusion) There are some answers there and feel free to ask me any other questions.

     
    Old 04-16-2004, 08:22 AM   #6
    ddelong123
    Junior Member
     
    ddelong123's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2004
    Location: Detroit, MI
    Posts: 46
    ddelong123 HB User
    Re: Disc replacement surgery

    Briley -
    What is your doctor saying about the lifespan on the artifical disk and are there limitations on how my procedures can be done? I have not seen too much info on the lifespan and worry that it will be like a knee/hip replacement. With the knee/hip replacements only lasting 15~20 years. Me being 33, I would hate to have multiple surgeries to replace the replacements.

    -- Just curious,
    Doug

     
    Old 04-16-2004, 07:42 PM   #7
    tennisnut
    Inactive
     
    Join Date: May 2003
    Location: Mill Valley, CA US
    Posts: 116
    tennisnut HB User
    Re: Disc replacement surgery

    As someone who has read a great deal about disc replacement surgery and is about to have one, I'd like to address a few of the issues raised on this thread thus far:

    MelissaMay's post entitled "failed disc replacement" or something like that seems to refer to a failed nucleus replacement. I hope you will clarify this, Melissa, because it is very important to distinguish between nucleus replacement and artificial disc replacement, lest people become confused about the two procedures. I don't know much about nucleus replacement except that I believe that it is relatively new and untested in comparison to ADR. I'm not entirely sure why someone would opt for nucleus replacement rather than complete ADR. Seems to me that most of us with herniated and degenerated discs have an annulus that is pretty severely compromised. Replacing only the nucleus would not really help matters much. I would be curious to hear Melissa's thoughts about why she opted for this approach. Melissa?

    ADR has been performed in Europe for over 18 years now and more than 10,000 patients have received Charite and Prodiscs. In all of these cases, there has NEVER and I repeat NEVER been a single instance of a prosthesis failure. I believe there have been some cases in which osteopenia was not properly diagnosed and that, after the ADR was installed, the patient's facet began to decay (they call this subsidence). This was detected via x-ray and the artificial disc was removed and the patient fused. This is not a failure of the disc, but rather a failure to effectively select out a patient who should not have had the surgery. The situation that Melissa described (where the prosthesis had become dislodged) simply has not happened with ADR. I am assuming that she had a nucleus replacement because she used the term "partial" disc replacement. I think it's not too hard to see how an artificial nucleus could, under sufficient pressure, "pop" out of a torn, compromised annulus. In contrast, artificial discs have fairly deep teeth that are embedded into the facet joints and then the bone adheres to the metal endplates over time, creating a very secure hold.

    Someone else asked about the projected lifetime of the artificial disc. The discs are theoretically supposed to last at least 40 years. That is, the materials that were selected and the laboratory stress tests all indicate that this is a reasonable expectation. The longest a person has had one in their body is 18 years. No one has ever had to have one removed because the disc was prematurely wearing. But we won't know how long they last for sure until we follow patients for another 20 years or so. The hope is that, because ADRs do not restrict range of motion like fusion does, patients will be able to avoid the increased risk for premature degeneration of adjacent discs that is seen with fusion. Now, it is also important to state that not everyone who has fusion will have premature degeneration of adjacent disc. It just means that fusion increases the risk for this. It is too early to say whether or not ADR will protect patients from this negative consequence, but the hope is that it will.

    Moonlight: There is a real “buzz” about ADR because it is clearly the most important advance in spine surgery since perhaps micro surgeries were introduced. People for whom fusion was the only surgical option (not all of them, but many) now have much better odds for an excellent outcome. It might ease your mind to know that every single surgeon I have consulted with, whether ADR was in their repertoire or not, strongly advised me to avoid surgery if, and this is the clincher, “I could live with it.” I lived with it as long as I could and when I knew I could no longer, I went ahead with plans for ADR surgery.

    --tennisnut

    **************************************
    2002: Gradual onset lower back pain.
    DDD w/ full-thickness radial annulus tear @ L5/S1. 60% loss of disc height.
    2003: Multiple ESI fail, PT makes pain worse.
    Unable to sit for >10 min for the past 15 months.
    Meds: 160mg oxycontin, 3600 mg Neurontin
    Try IDET (11/03). No benefit.
    Having artificial disc replacement (Prodisc) in 2-3 months.

     
    Old 04-17-2004, 02:13 PM   #8
    ddelong123
    Junior Member
     
    ddelong123's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2004
    Location: Detroit, MI
    Posts: 46
    ddelong123 HB User
    Re: Disc replacement surgery

    Tennisnut-
    Great reply. ADR does off a great alternative to the fusion and hopefully will show great signs so the FDA will approve. This topic is one that I will definately bring up with the several neurosurgeons I am getting opinions from.

    Doug

     
    Old 04-17-2004, 09:05 PM   #9
    injured betty
    Inactive
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Feb 2004
    Posts: 2,135
    injured betty HB User
    Re: Disc replacement surgery

    Tennis nut: 18 years is not enough for me. Look at the ads on tv for the hip replacement failure lawsuits. They lasted five years.

    10,000 surgeries are not enough for me either. That is divided amongst how many physicians? And, how does one go about finding the ACTUAL failure rate? After reading about what goes on in hospitals and what is covered up, who knows what the real statistics are?

    As for the new buzz word, I want more for my back than a buzzword and my back is killing me.

    sorry to be so down, but pain makes one that way sometimes

     
    Old 04-18-2004, 05:45 PM   #10
    tennisnut
    Inactive
     
    Join Date: May 2003
    Location: Mill Valley, CA US
    Posts: 116
    tennisnut HB User
    Re: Disc replacement surgery

    ddelong123: From what I've heard, the first artificial disc, Charite, is slated for FDA approval in 2005. So if you can wait that long, insurance companies will certainly be adding it to their list of approved services. I have heard of insurance companies covering artificial discs for some patients, but I haven't had any luck with mine. It's certainly a plus to find a doctor nearby who can do the surgery, but it is more important to find one who is both a top-rated surgeon and fairly experienced in ADR surgery. The randomized trials for charite and prodiscs reached full enrollment long ago, but the FDA has allowed investigators to continue to do the surgeries as part of the open enrollment. I think they approved another 600 surgeries on top of the 400 that were to be done for the study. Each study doctor is alloted only a handful of surgeries every month, so you might find that there is a waiting list.

    If you can't find an ADR surgeon in the U.S. who can do the surgery, going to Europe is a possibility. The people I've spoken with who have gone to Europe to have their ADR surgery done by some of the best known ADR surgeons have raved about the quality of care, the caring disposition of the doctors, and have had great outcomes. So it's a real consideration, especially given that the cost of the surgery is 1/2 of what it is here. I don't really know anything about your current situation (e.g., diagnosis, duration of back pain, level of disability, etc.)

    Moonlight: I'm not sure what your intent is with the dire messages of gloom and doom. Of course there are risks in any surgery and potential complications for both ADR and fusion. But for people who require surgery and who have determined that this is the best option for them, your warnings serve only to increase anxiety. Can you see that? Nobody is asking [B]you[/B] to have the surgery, so it really does not matter whether or not you have been supplied with "enough" information to make a decision in this regard. In both the U.S. and Europe there are reporting requirements for medical device adverse events, failures, etc. Of course we have to rely on this information to determine the safety of all procedures. How else are we to do so? I would imagine that there are rather severe consequences for doctors (it is the doctors who are required to report, not the companies who make the devices) who fail to report problems that come to their attention. In any case, I have no wish to get in a debate with you about how to better insure patient safety. The purpose of this board is to share information, give advice when it is [I]requested[/I], and most importantly provide support.

    -tennisnut

    **************************************
    2002: Gradual onset lower back pain.
    DDD w/ full-thickness radial annulus tear @ L5/S1. 60% loss of disc height.
    2003: Multiple ESI fail, PT makes pain worse.
    Unable to sit for >10 min for the past 15 months, constant LBP
    Meds: 160mg oxycontin, 3600 mg Neurontin
    Try IDET (11/03). No benefit.
    Having artificial disc replacement (Prodisc) in 2-3 months.

     
    Old 04-18-2004, 07:47 PM   #11
    injured betty
    Inactive
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Feb 2004
    Posts: 2,135
    injured betty HB User
    Re: Disc replacement surgery

    [I][COLOR=Purple]Moonlight: I'm not sure what your intent is with the dire messages of gloom and doom. Of course there are risks in any surgery and potential complications for both ADR and fusion. But for people who require surgery and who have determined that this is the best option for them, your warnings serve only to increase anxiety. Can you see that? Nobody is asking you to have the surgery, so it really does not matter whether or not you have been supplied with "enough" information to make a decision in this regard. In both the U.S. and Europe there are reporting requirements for medical device adverse events, failures, etc. Of course we have to rely on this information to determine the safety of all procedures. How else are we to do so? I would imagine that there are rather severe consequences for doctors (it is the doctors who are required to report, not the companies who make the devices) who fail to report problems that come to their attention. In any case, I have no wish to get in a debate with you about how to better insure patient safety. The purpose of this board is to share information, give advice when it is requested, and most importantly provide support.

    -tennisnut[/COLOR][/I]


    I have concerns because people come to this board and other boards looking not only for support, but for answers and opinions. They want to make educated decisions. If all that they heard is the opinions of people raving about the success of different surgeries and treatments then how can they make an educated and unbiased decision? I have literally searched thousands of sites before I made decisons on treatments that I have undergone, but, surgery on the back, which I consider right up there with brain surgery or heart surgery, is one of those surgeries that one needs to have a truckload of information on before making a decision on.

    I talked with the Neurosurgeon that I am seeing about this procedure and he is leary of it. The statistics just don't pan out. It takes years for the FDA to approve a type of surgery. They have to look not only at the success rate of it short term, but long term. Will the patients who benefit from it today be the statistics of tomorrow when it comes to having them be long term patients?

    Putting a word in bold seems rather harsh. I am not trying to arrgue with anyone or cause any anxiety. Coming to a decision in regards to back surgery should have anxiety linked to it as it is a decision for life. I am looking at surgery myself, down the line, but not before I do a ton of research on it.

    To say that no one asked for my opinion, is rather harsh in itself. There are two sides to a coin and each person needs to take off the blinders if they are wearing them and look at both sides. Pain makes one look only at what may work. I can only hope that you are not here to promote a type of surgery, and that you are only offering up an opinion.


    Having a daughter who works in the health field and friends who are doctors and are rather candid about what really happens in the field, I have to be skeptical about what is and is not reported.

    This procedure is a trial. Would the real outcomes be reported if they are trying to pass it? Also, since these are trials, that word in itself has to mean something. Agreed, there are doctors in Europe who are doing this and successfully, but those are not the doctors who are perfoming the trials here. The ones performing the trials here are learning on the patients. That is my understanding from talking to the doctors here.

    I am happy for you that you want to be part of this and your income may be great. You may get a doctor who has done this before, but then as part of the trial, you have to understand that you may not get one of the more experienced doctors.

    They can't do these on cadavers as cadavers can't feel pain so they have to use live patients who can report pain. I am just saying that I would not want to be part of a trial that is cutting on my back.

    I don't apologize for disagreeing with you. I have too mnay friends who suffer from failed back surgery syndrome. Those surgeries were also once a trial and they were promised a good outcome. Every treatment or surgery once started out as a trial. Some worked, some didn't.

     
    Old 04-18-2004, 10:16 PM   #12
    Standingman1
    Senior Member
     
    Standingman1's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Dec 2003
    Posts: 159
    Standingman1 HB User
    Re: Disc replacement surgery

    Perhaps this is another way to say it...

    I haven't _ever_ read anyone on this board "promote" this or that surgery. People are making very tough decisions, weighing all the information they can get, not only from discussion boards (thank the Lord!) but from medical journals, scientific studies, and consults with the best specialists they can find.

    The notion that back surgery is a crock; that it is big business for whiney baby boomers, is _itself_ the one-dimensional perspective that is selling most of the soap at the moment. The current Newsweek is the latest version of pop med lite--same old, same old. Not even a mention, in the entire article, of nerve damage, lost function (muscle atrophy, weakness, etc.), crippling disability, or any of the serious issues that lead good people, and good doctors, even to begin to consider surgery. What an enormous disservice in the name of "news."

    Let's start by assuming we're good people, not naive, not children, not victims, just trying to make the smartest, most responsible decisions we can, with open eyes--for ourselves, for those we love, and for those who depend on us.

    Standingman

     
    Old 04-18-2004, 11:26 PM   #13
    injured betty
    Inactive
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Feb 2004
    Posts: 2,135
    injured betty HB User
    Re: Disc replacement surgery

    Ya know, standing man, I agree with you on one level. But, if you follow the forums, which I am sure that you do, and read the statistics, there really is a trend right now towards back surgery. I have to ask if it is because we have come so far in technology? there are more people with back problems then ever before? the doctors who started out with good intentions (and I am sure that most of them did) have had their malpractice insurance raised so high that they have to either bow out, specialize (and spines are where the money is right now, well, that and stem cell research), or perform treatments or surgery that is not really needed.

    If you look at the expoential rate of the growth of the population, I guess that it is all in perspective that there are more and more people having back problems and back surgery.

    Agreed, people come to the boards for info, support, others experiences, and to educate themselves. If it weren't for the boards I would not have gotten the info that we needed to read on ESI's.

    The net is a very powerful tool, it can promote great things.

    I do think, and this is just my opinion, that there are far more back surgeries done than what is necessary. Where we live there is a large spread in the economic levels and age levels. If you have good insurance, you get the latest surgery. If you are on the state health plan, again, you get the latest surgery. If you are in-between, or have an HMO you get pain management.

    One would think, that all people are equal, that everyone would be able to get the surgery if it is necessary.

     
    Old 04-19-2004, 07:47 AM   #14
    Standingman1
    Senior Member
     
    Standingman1's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Dec 2003
    Posts: 159
    Standingman1 HB User
    Re: Disc replacement surgery

    I agree that there is probably more surgery done than is necessary and that issues besides medical necessity lead there. Most of the folks on this board know that as well, and are encouraging, when it seems called for, to help a "newbie" think through all relevant options and not jump into anything prematurely--be it surgery, an unproven or potenially dangerous medicine, and other uncertain therapies.

    Standingman

     
    Old 04-19-2004, 11:14 AM   #15
    nycgirl25
    Member
    (female)
     
    nycgirl25's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2004
    Location: NY
    Posts: 69
    nycgirl25 HB User
    Re: Disc replacement surgery

    To everyone that has posted on this thread. First of all I would like to thank you all for your comments and opinions and all your good thoughts. However I must comment on the discussion between , tennisnut, moonlight and Standingman. I agree that back surgery is right up there with all the major surgeries. However i do refuse to think that something is going to go wrong. Yes ADR's are not FDA approved, but everything that I have read about it including European and Australian studies seem's to be very promising. I might not choose this option because i want to do something that i FDA approved, however I can not wait until 2005 to get it done, If I could wait until then I certainly would. I am probably going to have the Fusion, knowing full well that this FDA approved surgery might or might not work. All I know is that 2 for the last I have gone through it all, before my first surgery (discetomy) I went through extensive pain management and I honestly beleive that they did all they could do before operating, it was not until I was unable to walk and screaming from the pain that they decided to operate. Here we are 2 years later and over the last year they again have done all they can before considering surgery as an option. I do not think that whether or not i had insurance, and HMO or no insurance would have affected the quality of treatment that i have received.When making these decisions one must be mentally and spiritually ready and above all optimistic. I do beleive that having a positive attitude helps the recovery process as opposed to being negative which leads one to be stressed and anxious and that just can not be good for the body that is trying to heal. I respect evryone's opinions but I do think that we must all try to be positive and look forward to getting better.

     
    Closed Thread

    Related Topics
    Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
    Artificial Disc Replacement soCalman Back Problems 35 02-16-2011 10:40 PM
    Disc Removal w/ Fat Graft Surgery tmj225 TMJ Disorder -TemporoMandibular Joint 0 10-30-2009 06:15 PM
    The Truth About Disc Replacement: Help! D.LYNN Back Problems 45 05-16-2007 06:38 AM
    Artificial disc for cervies Nanner Spinal Cord Disorders 3 11-06-2004 12:15 AM
    Has anyone had disc replacement? norahs Back Problems 1 07-09-2004 05:28 PM
    Surgery, Bi-lateral TMJ disc replacement JawPain-22 TMJ Disorder -TemporoMandibular Joint 2 06-19-2004 04:15 AM
    failed disc replacement, need info on BMP fusion MelissaMay Back Problems 24 04-19-2004 03:56 AM




    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Search this Thread:

    Advanced Search

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is Off
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is Off
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are Off
    Pingbacks are Off
    Refbacks are Off




    Sign Up Today!

    Ask our community of thousands of members your health questions, and learn from others experiences. Join the conversation!

    I want my free account

    All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:44 PM.





    © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved.
    Do not copy or redistribute in any form!