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    Old 05-24-2005, 05:22 PM   #1
    Vuitton70
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    Question SI joint issues - advice please...

    I have posted before so if my background is a repeat, I'm sorry! I have a torn disc at L4-L5, S1 from an 18 ft. fall 2 years ago + osteo arthritis + sciatica (I'm 34).

    I have been through the gamut of PT, MRI's, X-rays, shots, ESI's, trigger pt inj., pills, etc. My pain is stabbing in nature at the disc area-then travels to my right hip, rt. side of my upper bum and down my right leg to my foot OUCH! That pain is stabbing/piercing & "electrical" at the same time.

    I have had 4 ESI's in about 18 months-they were only concentrated on the disc area only. 1-3 days of relief only at the disc area, not my bum, hip or leg.

    So, I go into the Dr. for another set of trigger pt. inj. yesterday and while finding the proper spots to jab in the needle, he re-asks if I had a fall and landed on my bum. I say yes (again), that the ladder I was on slid down the side of a house, I landed in between the rungs & landed straight on my bum ( broke my foot too). My Dr. has never mentioned the SI joint until then. Say's I probably messed it up in the fall (ya think?) & it is pinching the nerves in there, adding to my hip & leg pain. So he scheduled another ESI to target THAT area only.

    I am very excited in that maybe this will help all of the pain I live with in that area. I would love input from you all!

    Thanks-T.

     
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    Old 05-24-2005, 06:55 PM   #2
    injured betty
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    Re: SI joint issues - advice please...

    You are right, a fall will cause SI dysfunction. But, I would have them do a plain shot of something else in there before letting then use an ESI. And, when they do the shot, refuse it unless they use a flouroscopy. The reason for the plain shot, w/o steroids, is to determine, is it nerve pain or inflammation of the joint. Have you see a physiatrist and had them give you the SI test yet? I would not let them go messing with my SI joint unless they have proven that is what it is.

    A torn SI Ligament or SI dysfunction will present pain in the dimple of your buttocks cheek, around your hip, to your groin and ONLY to your knee. If it goes beyond your knee, then it is not your SI.

    Ask him to get out the nerve chart and show you the nerve that he is targeting. I think that he might just be shooting in the dark.

    I think that you might have a combination of problems. SI pain does not go to the foot.

    Sorry,

     
    Old 05-25-2005, 11:36 AM   #3
    heidi23
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    Re: SI joint issues - advice please...

    I had S-I problems after someone rear-ended my car and my physical therapist then had me stretch too far. My S-I joint started dislocating for no apparent reason, and my doctor said it was most likely because I'd had `loose' muscles or tendons that had never healed properly after the car accident, and so they were not holding the S-I joint together tightly enough.

    Physical therapy (with a different physical therapist) didn't work for it, so then we went to ESIs straight into the S-I joint. Those helped tremendously for that pain (which was very significant, daily), which is exactly like what you describe (top of right hip and very top of right butt-cheek).

    But since I could still feel a very small degree of pain there after the ESIs kicked in, my doctor then sent me for prolotherapy. It was a god-send. After five rounds of that, my S-I joint problem seems to be cured. No more pain in that area at all.

    I don't know if prolotherapy will work for you, but I would ask your doctor if there's a possibility that the tendons/ligaments whatever that are supposed to hold that joint in place could be damaged or loose. If there is, I would highly recommend trying the prolotherapy. Even if there's not, I might try it anyway if I were you, because I know from my own experience how much that problem SUCKS to have.

    But I agree with what Betty said, in that my S-I pain never seemed to go out of my hip/butt area. Chances are that your leg pain is coming from a pinched nerve somewhere else. I `just' have an annular tear around one disc (no disc damage at all), and I've had that horrible electrical stabbing pain in my butt occasionally. It took a discogram to diagnose that.

     
    Old 05-25-2005, 09:24 PM   #4
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    Re: SI joint issues - advice please...

    Thanks to all, you are so wise (as usual)!

    I am going to keep researching the SI joint and talk to my Dr. at my ESI appointment. At this point I am just hoping something will take away some of my pain

    Have a great night.

     
    Old 05-26-2005, 03:39 AM   #5
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    Re: SI joint issues - advice please...

    I have been recently diagnosed with SI joint dysfunction and received the cortisone injection at the site as well as PT, until they told me there was nothing more they could do for me. It has now been 5 weeks and I cannot sit at all without immense pain and I am still having to walk with a cane. Has anyone tried Chiropractic for this? Did you have MRI's to cement the diagnosis?

     
    Old 05-26-2005, 10:01 AM   #6
    injured betty
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    Re: SI joint issues - advice please...

    Look into Prolotherapy. I had it done and then was re-injured. Prolo tightens up the ligaments. MDs won't tell you about it, you have to research it yourself.

    Say no to Chiros.

    The shots only take down the inflammation, they won't solve the problem.

     
    Old 05-26-2005, 11:10 AM   #7
    peregrine
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    Re: SI joint issues - advice please...

    [QUOTE=injured betty]Look into Prolotherapy. I had it done and then was re-injured. Prolo tightens up the ligaments. MDs won't tell you about it, you have to research it yourself.

    Say no to Chiros.

    The shots only take down the inflammation, they won't solve the problem.[/QUOTE]
    Are you saying the Prolotherapy will not solve the problem?

     
    Old 05-26-2005, 07:53 PM   #8
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    Re: SI joint issues - advice please...

    I am wondering if I too have SI joint dysfunction. My chiro is really of no help anymore. I need to have a positive diagnosis about this so what kind of dr. do you go to? Please help. The daily pain is to much.

     
    Old 05-27-2005, 03:49 AM   #9
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    Re: SI joint issues - advice please...

    [QUOTE=iearnmom]I am wondering if I too have SI joint dysfunction. My chiro is really of no help anymore. I need to have a positive diagnosis about this so what kind of dr. do you go to? Please help. The daily pain is to much.[/QUOTE]

    An orthopedic doctor would be appropriate if you are seeking an allopathic doctor. I, too, am trying to decide which route to take after 2 months of unremitting pain and inability to sit. I am checking into Prolotherapy, which another poster recommended, but I was told (by the Prolotherapy doc) it doesn't work for everyone.

    Last edited by peregrine; 05-27-2005 at 03:50 AM.

     
    Old 05-27-2005, 06:23 PM   #10
    injured betty
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    Re: SI joint issues - advice please...

    Prolotherapy is the only answer for those with a torn ligament that is all stretched out. Or, they can go in, take up the slack, and sew ya up, but either way, if your ligaments are lax, then your joint will continue to be painful and it will eventually, if not already, cause arthritis.

    I think that the statistics are 86% success rate.

    I was diagnosed by a spine specialist, a DO and an MD. All with the same diagnosis. SI dysfunction and torn ligament that is not healing.

     
    Old 05-28-2005, 04:59 AM   #11
    peregrine
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    Re: SI joint issues - advice please...

    [QUOTE=injured betty]Prolotherapy is the only answer for those with a torn ligament that is all stretched out. Or, they can go in, take up the slack, and sew ya up, but either way, if your ligaments are lax, then your joint will continue to be painful and it will eventually, if not already, cause arthritis.

    I think that the statistics are 86% success rate.

    I was diagnosed by a spine specialist, a DO and an MD. All with the same diagnosis. SI dysfunction and torn ligament that is not healing.[/QUOTE]
    Hi,

    I saw my doc yesterday and asked him about Prolotherapy. He said to induce a sclerotic situation (promoting scar tissue, which is what is done in that therapy), into my back, would not solve [I]my[/I] problem. You're right, that [I]is [/I]a protocol for torn or very loose ligaments or tendons. Yet, I [I]do[/I] have SI joint dysfunction, so it must [I]present[/I] in different ways. I had an MRI yesterday so I will soon know the exact nature of the problem.

    Last edited by peregrine; 05-28-2005 at 04:59 AM.

     
    Old 05-28-2005, 10:05 AM   #12
    injured betty
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    Re: SI joint issues - advice please...

    [COLOR=RoyalBlue]I saw my doc yesterday and asked him about Prolotherapy. He said to induce a sclerotic situation (promoting scar tissue, which is what is done in that therapy), into my back, would not solve my problem. You're right, that is a protocol for torn or very loose ligaments or tendons. Yet, I do have SI joint dysfunction, so it must present in different ways. I had an MRI yesterday so I will soon know the exact nature of the problem[/COLOR]


    You can do a search on SI dysfunction, but I can give you a quick run down on what it is, I have had it for two years. My joint is loose. The joint is *never* suppossed to move. If it does, it moves, like a millionenth of a inch. So, when mine moved, due to a push/twist accident, I also tore my SI ligament. That is the part that is the dysfunction, a torn ligament. These do not show on X-rays, or MRI's. It took two years but I finally got them to do a highly specialized CT scan with contrast and it showed the misalignment of the SI joint and the torn ligament. I had to pay cash for this, insurance would not cover it.

    Anyway, when the ligament becomes loose, due to overuse, which is highly unlikely, usually takes brunt force, the spine comes into play. It is like a door being out of alignment. With a door, you just tighten up the hinges. With the ligament, you have to tighten it up.

    Prolotherapy doesn't introduce scar tissue, it has this big long process where the body thinks that it is injured, it sends in fibroblasts and lays down new tissue. This is much like taking MSM, Chondroitin and Glucosomine for the joint. Prolotherapy is a method of healing.

    I have had several MRI's, CT scans, and X-Rays and I don't have scar tissue from the Prolo. I think that your doctor is mis-informed.

    If needles alone caused scar tissue, then the junkies of the world would be one huge scar. But, they are not, their veins just collapse.

    If you are looking for SI dysfunction on your MRI, it is not going to be there unless you used contrast, and even then, it might not show. That is not the test to use. It might show the herniation or arthritis caused by the loose ligaments pulling on your discs, but not the soft tissue damage.

    They had to take the CT scan that I had and blow it WAY up to measure the pelvis and the SI joint to show that my right SI joint was sitting higher than the left. It was undecernable to the human eye with out blowing it up. But, that small measurement was causing my problems. Each time that I move, the ligaments, which are sloppy right now, do not do their job in stabilizing my hips, back, butt, tailbone, and legs. I am going in for a tune up as soon as school is over.

    Your doctor must be thinking of a different process, because with this, you have no time to form scar tissue. You get the shots, you exercise, do stretches, use warm compresses, massage away the waste that is caused by the inflammation and the healing process, and NO scar tissue is formed. I addressed that issue with my doctor at the time. He asked me how I thought that it was formed. It isn't. New ligament tissue is laid down.

    Hope that this was some help.

    Maybe your doctor does not believe in this process because he doesn't understand it.

    take care,


     
    Old 05-28-2005, 11:29 AM   #13
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    Re: SI joint issues - advice please...

    Just to compare and clarify and see if we are talking about the same kind of thing.

    What is the [I]exact[/I] nature of your pain?

    I am o.k. lying down but cannot turn side to side in bed. Sitting is the most painful. [I]Very [/I]painful! Walking is o.k. as long as I don't then stand for any period of time to put pressure on my sacrum. Turning side to side doesn't work either. Any extension of my back is excruciating. I pretty much always have pain and discomfort in my low back, sacrum and Left glute/hip. I have been using a cane for the past 5 weeks. Stretching feels good (lying on my back) and will offer a bit of relief for a short period.

    I have finally resorted to the pain and muscle relaxant meds because I [I]literally[/I] could not function in my day to day life. Now I have relief for 4 hours at a time. If this turns out to be a major muscle spasm, instead of SI Dysfunction, the docs theory is that the meds will break the cycle. I NEVER EVER take meds, so you can see how desperate I was feeling.

    Thank you for all your information. I think I need to take this a step at a time and see if there is any new information forthcoming from the MRI

     
    Old 05-28-2005, 06:31 PM   #14
    injured betty
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    Re: SI joint issues - advice please...



    Okay, it feels like someone is stabbing me in the dimple of my butt 24/7. There is a sharp, nagging (now I sound like the Tylenol commerical) pain in my groin area. The pain wraps around my hip. One of the first doctors gave me oral steroids for bursitis of the hip and sent me to the OB/GYN. I now know he was wrong.

    The pain in my groin happens whenever I am awake and worse if I stretch in any direction.

    The hip pain is dull and nagging, and only when standing.

    The tail bone area, pelvis and sacrum area is constant. Sharp, teeth gritting pain.

    I find relief in a hot bath, but you can't stay in a bath forever. This relief leads me to believe that is it partly muscle related. I have spent a lot of time in hot baths with a lot of time to think about my body. I believe that since my ligament is loose, and something needs to come to the rescue to keep my body going in motion, I am overworking my muscles. Thus, the hot water helping.

    After a long walk, if I have had to go up or down an incline, which I do when I leave my home, I use ice and it takes the edge off but you can only use that for twenty minutes, once an hour.

    I was doing yoga stretches everyday and ham string stretches but that made it hurt worse.

    Bending over sends fire through my joint.

    Sitting in a car is the worst. I avoid all car rides except to work and back. It is as if my shock aborbers in my back are gone, which I know is not true because it is my SI ligament/joint, not my discs. All tests point to the SI joint/ligament.

    Tylenol doesn't help, although I gave it the ole college try. Advil takes the edge off after a particuarly long walk. We take five mile walks three to five days a week now. We used to do them every day.

    Sitting: It is as if I am stuck. It feels like I have stuffing filled with fire all around the joint. I have yet to find a comfortable position to sit in.

    Squatting is also very painful. I thought that I would learn to squat instead of bend, ouch!!!!

    If I had an option of meds breaking a cycle, I would go for it, but I think that they are snowing you. I have taken Xanax for thirteen years and it is a great muscle relaxer. It did not break any cycle of pain for me.

    If it is a musle spasm, then the MRI will note it. I have seen this on my husband's MRI of his neck. The radiologist noted when he was having a spasm during the MRI process. Does he think that you have one huge charley horse?

    If that is the case then I would take only the muscle relaxers and see if it relaxes the muscles. If I were a betting person, I would bet that is not the problem.

    on a side note: I just saw a cartoon. It involved two people standing outside of a doctor's office, both wearing doctor's white coats. There is a new sign being hung up. One doctor says to the other, "I am specializing in Hyperchondria, there is more money in it".

    I know, not funny. But, doctors are trying to figure out a mystery that they can't solve and haven't solved yet, pain and the back. They are helpless. They can only mask the pain or fix structural problems but they can't cure pain. It is all in the wiring and they have not figured out the human brain yet.

    I hope that yours really is just a muscle spasm.


     
    Old 05-29-2005, 04:02 AM   #15
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    Re: SI joint issues - advice please...

    dont mean to burst in here.....but
    I have been going to prolo for months and had 11 treatments so far....and I am getting very discouraged. I reserched it and am going to "one of the top" guys in NYC...
    I have been going through what betty has, except for only a year now. not sure how long I have had SID....could be years. and I know that that is not the only pain generator. I have scar tissue too.
    what is the next step we should take if the prolo doesn't seem to be working? If I understand this, its the last hope.
    my dr. wants me to look into a pump??? seems to be giving up???
    I am so confused. but am glad that I have a place were folks know what I am going through. any ideas betty?

    peregrine, any word on your MRI? tuesday I guess..love long weekends as I am waiting on a cat scan results too.seems there is something going on there too
    well guess we need to try and enjoy this weekend...have fun
    hope you dont mind me butting in
    bee

     
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