It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Back Problems Message Board

  • nerve healed but still in pain

  • Post New Thread   Closed Thread
    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Old 03-09-2006, 09:34 AM   #1
    ladybird988
    Senior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jul 2004
    Posts: 284
    ladybird988 HB Userladybird988 HB User
    nerve healed but still in pain

    Hi all,

    Got an EMG and it showed that there was nerve damage but that my nerve has healed 20 months post op. However I'm still in pain. So it could be chronic pain. Still not sure what causes that. But this doctor who is a physiatrist mentioned that he thinks it is my sacroiliac both sides causing pain down the leg into the toe because the one hip is higher than the other and the pelvis tilted back on the other side. So I'm getting shots in the sacroiliac joints and then PT.

    He said he had a woman with the same symptoms do PT for the sacroiliac for 2 months and her pain went from a 10 to a 2.

    Original problem was a herniated disk that left me unable to lift my toes. Weak leg has been getting stronger, but there is still numbness in the foot and the pain keeps getting worse. Foot feels broken at times and I can't stand on it. Leg gives out. they think that may be a pain response?

    There is scar tissue around the nerve though only medium amount so is questionable. And there is inflammation showing at two levels on the MRI. 3 bad disks. and arthritis.

    Still, he thinks the sacroiliac is the problem.

    Anyone else found this to be the case? Is the sacroiliac the SI joint talked about here? How come no other doctor mentioned the sacroiliac? Do you have to see a psyiatrist to find this? I'm confused. He works at a back and chronic pain program.

    He also said that opiods cause pain. I don't understand why. They are depressants? But he said that. I am now on Cymbalta and it is helping the pain and I've cut back on percocet. I hope that if I can get off the percocet the pain will stop. Crazy cycle.

    It's taken 4 years to learn this???

     
    Sponsors Lightbulb
       
    Old 03-09-2006, 10:39 AM   #2
    JoeD617
    Senior Member
    (male)
     
    Join Date: Jan 2004
    Location: Cambridge, MA
    Posts: 293
    JoeD617 HB User
    Re: nerve healed but still in pain

    hi Ladybird, I have some of the same symptoms. It feels like my ankle is fractured and can't put much weight on it. I also have the pain in the hip and on my outer calf on the right leg. I had 2 micro d's on the same disc L4L5. just got an mri and it shows that I have a buldging disc on the L4-L5 I'm having steroid injection this tuesday. When I bend overIahve a pulling on the muscle deep in the buttock <piriformis muscle>. This pain crap is getting old, I'm losing sleep at night because I toss and turn and this causes pain. Have you gotten another MRI?

    Good luck,
    Joe

     
    Old 03-09-2006, 01:00 PM   #3
    carol632
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Nov 2003
    Location: Missouri
    Posts: 2,128
    carol632 HB User
    Re: nerve healed but still in pain

    Ladybird, I think I would get another opinion ... I have SI joint problems and have none of those symptoms. It sounds more like a disc problem to me. When's the last time you had an MRI? I think I would push to get one done; that way you can be more sure of what the problem is.

    His statement that opioids cause pain is really out there. He's not wrong but he has taken it out of context. People who take large amounts of very strong opioids over a long period of time DO sometimes end up in a situation where they are having a "reverse" effect from the meds. However, I don't think you fit anywhere in that picture!! I honestly think you would be wise to see about another physiatrist to see what they think and I would get the MRI just to be certain there isn't something else going on.

    Good luck to you.

    Carol
    __________________
    2 lami's, 3 fusions
    bone spur removal
    cerv. fusion, 1 level
    morphine pump

     
    Old 03-09-2006, 02:34 PM   #4
    showdee
    Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Dec 2005
    Location: Ohio
    Posts: 60
    showdee HB User
    Re: nerve healed but still in pain

    Hello. I will tell you a bit of my story and maybe it will help with yours. I have two herniated discs in my lower back. Only one of which my doctor feels is causing me problems (L5 S1 I believe). I've had the ESI's, pt- twice, percutaneous discectomy nothing has helped. I have a lot of the same symtoms as you. Low back pain, buttocks, hip, calf, that broken ankle feeling, and sometimes my big toe hurts. Right now my doctor wants to deal with my hip pain. My hips are also rotated. He wants to find out if the si joint is the pain generator or if my hips just rotated because I'm in pain and probably walk differently. I had my first si joint injection this past Tuesday. Have you had yours yet? It wasn't quite what I expected. It was different than the ESI. I'm supposed to keep track of how I feel so he can determine if its the joint causing me pain. To be quite honest, my pain level seems the same. The only thing different is sometimes it seems like I have more movement in my hips now. I guess thats a good sign. I don't know. It does still hurt though. In two weeks I go back for another one.
    Another thing I wanted to mention is my doctor says that my calf pain is definately from the nerve. I think you mentioned that yours said it could be from the joint. I'm not knowledgable enough to know who would be right or if we have different senarios. I just thought I'd let you know what my doctor said.
    Well, I don't know if this has helped you at all but I hope it has at least a little. If you can, try to get back to me. Maybe we could learn something from eachother. Or at least not have to feel so alone. I know the people here understand how I feel (thank you everyone), which is nice because those in my life just don't seem to quite understand what its like to live like this everyday. Its tough!
    Sorry so long. Take care!

     
    Old 03-09-2006, 03:21 PM   #5
    Quietcook
    Inactive
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Dec 2004
    Posts: 1,291
    Quietcook HB UserQuietcook HB User
    Re: nerve healed but still in pain

    Ladybird,

    Sorry to hear that you have the pain. Don't know that this is your case, but perhaps you can discuss it with your doc. I do hope that the doc is a true spine specialist and not a general ortho surgeon or general neuro surgeon.

    Realizing that when I was in such terrible pain, my spine specialist discussed with me that if I stayed in constant severe pain too long, my pain would be permanent. I had nerves that were being so compressed that damage which could not be reversed if I waited too long. Luckily I did recover from the back pain and was left with numb toes, so I'm blessed as the compression had gone on for way past 6 and even 9 months.

    Still, I had experienced a major injury to a shoulder sustained in a wreck some years ago. I was sent to PT after 6 months, but the pain did not subside, so after more than a year went to a university pain center to receive injections into the nerve endings for almost a full year, not getting relief until about 2 yrs post injury. Since that injury was not a case of a nerve being compressed, but still constant horrific pain, I had to ask why I had been able to recover from pain that existed for about 2 years total but faced the potential of not recovering from the back pain.

    The difference of my own particular case was that permanent damage to the nerve came with the constant compression and rubbing of the nerve, where by the shoulder was a matter of a nerve forgetting how to stop being in pain. As it was explained to me, when a nerve has spasmed and been in pain for an extended period of time, it forgot how to turn off once it was healed. That's why I had to go for the injections to numb the nerve and essentially retrain it to stop hurting. Since it (the nerve) was not damaged, it could be retrained with the many injections, which came further and further apart until it learned again that it should not hurt until injured.

    The spine pain I had was different in that it was not a quick injury where the nerve healed and had to be retrained, but the spine pain was coming from damage which would continue to occur until I had surgery to correct the problem and why the urgency of having surgery to correct the spine before the damage became permanent, thus the pain which would also run the risk of being permanent.

    Now, not recalling what your specific diagnosis, I agree with others to get a current MRI and make sure where the pain is coming from. If your doc is not a true spine specialist, consider seeking opinions from one or more. You need to know where and what nerve is causing the pain and specifically if it has been permanently damaged or is it a matter where the nerve needs to be retrained so it can quit hurting until there is a need to hurt.

    I do hope you have a nerve that is not permanently damaged and can be retrained.

    Best wishes.

     
    Old 03-09-2006, 08:22 PM   #6
    ladybird988
    Senior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jul 2004
    Posts: 284
    ladybird988 HB Userladybird988 HB User
    Re: nerve healed but still in pain

    I too would like to keep in touch. I'm aware of some of your writings on here and noted your names to keep an eye on your progress.

    I"m seeing a physiatrist who works at a back rehab and chronic pain center. He measured my legs and my right hip is a whole inch higher than the left. I've had problems with the sacroiliac for years since I was a kid and sustained an injury to the pelvis, but none of the other doctors caught it as a concern even though I mentioned it. I didn't realize it could leg pain.

    He said that a sacroiliac out of alignment like that can pinch off a nerve that runs behind it and cause weakness, pain and numbness in the legs and feet and toes that mimics the pain caused by a herniated disk. So I'm excited that perhaps there is hope.

    He also said that the EMG showed nerve damage but that it has healed. the three spine doctors I've seen all agree that they see no nerve impingement now. But he did say I have chronic pain. FYI: I lived with bad nerve pain for 6 months before not being able to lift my toes, and then had surgery. So it has been over two years at this point.

    So, I don't know. My original injury was herniation at L4/L5 onto the nerve. Also have degenerated disks at L3 and S1. and arthritis. I don't know how they are supposed to figure out which is causing what pain.

     
    Old 03-10-2006, 01:26 PM   #7
    showdee
    Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Dec 2005
    Location: Ohio
    Posts: 60
    showdee HB User
    Re: nerve healed but still in pain

    Well, what you said about it pitching off a nerve certainly makes sense. I could see how that would happen. Have you started your injections yet? So far I've had one. It hasn't seemed to help. I thought that I was at least able to move a little better, but now today it has been difficult to move again.(the first couple of days I wasnt doing my normal activities at work) We werent as busy. I'm trying to keep positive about it though. Maybe the next one will help. The one thing keeping me going is hope.Its just got to get better than this. Its been a year of the severe pain. Sorry I didn't mean to whine to ya.
    I know what you mean, how can they tell which is causing the pain when there are a couple of problems in the same area. From what my doctor says thats partly why hes doing the injections. If it helps the problem is the joint. If it doesn't than its something else. Well, keep me informed of your situation and thank you for listening to mine.
    Take care!

     
    Old 03-11-2006, 05:34 PM   #8
    injured betty
    Inactive
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Feb 2004
    Posts: 2,135
    injured betty HB User
    Re: nerve healed but still in pain

    [B]<quote from Lady Bird>[/B]

    [COLOR=Magenta]Still, he thinks the sacroiliac is the problem.

    Anyone else found this to be the case? Is the sacroiliac the SI joint talked about here? How come no other doctor mentioned the sacroiliac? Do you have to see a psyiatrist to find this? I'm confused. He works at a back and chronic pain program.

    He also said that opiods cause pain. I don't understand why. They are depressants? But he said that. I am now on Cymbalta and it is helping the pain and I've cut back on percocet. I hope that if I can get off the percocet the pain will stop. Crazy cycle.

    It's taken 4 years to learn this???[/COLOR]


    The sacroiliac joints can cause problems if you are rotated or if the muscles are tight, that in turn causing inflammation in the joint. If the ligaments are loose, and stop doing their job, then the muscles step in and stay tightened and cause pain. I was told that there was no nerve in this area, but I am not so sure now.

    I was diagnosed by a DO, MD, PT, and PM. Mine is a weird case in that my illium is not rotated or non-level, but my sacrum is. When you sit down, you sit on your sitting bones. My right side is out of what due to ligaments that are not working properly so the muscles have stepped in to do the work.

    I am set up to do an ESI in the SI joint, but that just takes down the inflammation and it has been three years of pain. I want to find out what is causing the sitting bones to be uneven. I am currently in PT.

    I was told to do the following to take away some of the pain and to build the core. For ladies only: Imagine arching your lower spine, but don't do it. Just think about it without moving. Then, imagine drawing together your pelvic bones. While doing this, do Kegal exercises. I have been doing this for about a week and see no improvement. The object is to really work on the pelvic floor muscles. This, in turn, really builds the pelvic floor muscles which your sacrum depends on. Try the exercise that I posted a couple of months ago, stand next to a kitchen chair, put your foot up on it (the side where you hurt) and turn it outwards, 90 degrees. Bend at the hips towards the floor. Don't bend any more than is comfortable. This opens up the sacrum/pelvis.

    When you are at your doctor or PT, ask them to explain the SI joints to you. Then, ask them why they are doing the shots. My PM told me that they only offer relief and only temp. The actual cause needs to be addressed. Since mine is the fact that my ligaments on that side are not engaging, I am going back for more Prolotherapy with a different spine specialist this time. I can't live my life like this. A PT should be able to put their hands on your spine/SI joints and be able to tell you if your SI ligaments are working or if the muscles are taking over.

    As to part two, I know that it is a weird statement that opiods cause pain. I found this to be true in that when I used them, I did more and that lead to more inflammation and more pain. But, I am not sure what reasoning your doc is using to explain this.

    I know that I took four Ultraset today and was able to be relatively pain free while out running errands but right now, I am back in pain. Was it worth it? I don't know.

    Ask your doctor about myofascial pain. Sometimes when the SI is involved, mysofascial pain is also involved. My PT had been working on that for me and the day that I go, I am painfree, but like with acupunture, the next day, I am back to square one.

    There are a lot of manipulations that can be done to work on the SI joint. My prayers are with you that you find help with this.


     
    Old 03-13-2006, 04:26 PM   #9
    ladybird988
    Senior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jul 2004
    Posts: 284
    ladybird988 HB Userladybird988 HB User
    Re: nerve healed but still in pain

    Well, I believe he wants to do the shots into the sacroiliac to bring down the inflammation first, before manipulating it any with PT. He said that with it off a whole inch on the one side, if we just tried to straighten it out all at once, it would be very painful. I did read that if there is inflammation and you manipulate the joints you can do damage. I read that on the internet.

    I know my pelvis is out of alignment from having a weak foot and leaning to one side, protecting that foot. So now that the cymbalta has helped my nerve pain, I am focusing on putting my weight on that bad foot to get my pelvis level. plus, I sprained that ankle from tripping with drop foot and that is still healing.

    I get the injection in one week. Then start PT.

    I have had chronic sacroiliac problems since I was a kid and kicked brutally in an attack to my back. I think ligament damage was done.

    Sometimes, my pelvis will twitch and wobble. My whole trunk wobbles uncontrollablyand is all over the place. I then lay down and stretch to catch it from slipping. The right hip always goes higher than the left.

    I have found that getting in the pool with a deep water aerobics belt and just hanging in the water helps put it back and keep it where it needs to be.

     
    Old 03-13-2006, 04:50 PM   #10
    injured betty
    Inactive
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Feb 2004
    Posts: 2,135
    injured betty HB User
    Re: nerve healed but still in pain

    There will be an underlying reason to the inflammation. The SI injection is just a bandaid, not that we don't need one once in awhile. If your ligaments are damaged, keeping your pelvis out of alignment, then you might want to research Prolotherapy, but only with someone who has been doing it for years. That is the only way to tighten up ligaments that are damaged.

    I kept getting manipulated for three years until one day I realized that all of the manipulations in the world was not going to keep my pelvis straight. I had torn ligaments that did not heal properly. I am now undergoing PT, but that is only a temp fix at best for me.

    I hope that you find answers.


     
    Old 03-13-2006, 05:01 PM   #11
    showdee
    Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Dec 2005
    Location: Ohio
    Posts: 60
    showdee HB User
    Re: nerve healed but still in pain

    Hey there ladybird! Good luck with your injections. I go for my second one next week. I guess we'll be doing this around the same time. I hope this all works out for you. I know how painful this is for you first hand, so I hope your doctor can get it under control. Thats terrible about being attacked. I'm sorry that happened to you.
    When I was doing aquatic therapy,at the end of each session I would dangle from a noodle in the deep end of the pool. After being like that for about fifteen minutes or so(motionless) I did feel a little relief (at least for a little bit). I'll take what I can get.
    Anyways, good luck to you and let me know how everything goes.

     
    Closed Thread

    Related Topics
    Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
    Repairing Nerve Damage Question jdsun Pain Management 3 02-08-2010 08:59 AM
    Axillary Nerve Damage and atrophied deltoids, Please Help! AndrewC Neuropathy 4 07-21-2007 11:07 PM
    17 days Post Micro D L5 S1 - Question on nerve pain shokatsu Back Problems 3 11-21-2005 09:30 PM
    Please help! Does nerve damage also mean the muscle won't work? mm78 Back Problems 9 08-23-2005 04:29 PM
    Can a pinched nerve "unpinch" itself or does it only get worse? mm78 Back Problems 9 06-04-2005 11:36 PM
    first time poster with facial (nerve?) pain Snails Pain Management 12 07-27-2004 01:21 PM
    Is it a torn ligament or nerve damage? Sandra_Marie Neuropathy 2 10-15-2003 07:34 PM
    nerve pain & shedding: a connection? mutz Herpes 1 05-13-2003 11:08 PM




    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Search this Thread:

    Advanced Search

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is Off
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is Off
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are Off
    Pingbacks are Off
    Refbacks are Off




    Sign Up Today!

    Ask our community of thousands of members your health questions, and learn from others experiences. Join the conversation!

    I want my free account

    All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:04 PM.





    2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved.
    Do not copy or redistribute in any form!