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  • minor boney lipping....suddenly v scared!

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    Old 06-25-2007, 02:18 PM   #1
    jacquelineforde
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    minor boney lipping....suddenly v scared!

    Hi all
    Very new to this site and to the term of lipping but you all seem so knowledgable so hope for some help. Have had 'minor' lower backache for couple of years, and buried head perhaps thinking I'm still young (hmmmm..37?) for 'real' back problems. Started physiotherapy recently due to increased pain, and no change( wondered if I was impatient). Finally got x-ray after pushing Dr, and today he has mentioned the lipping but very matter of fact way like it's no big deal. However I am in serious panic and wonder what i should be doing about this. Advice from scratch would be very welcome at this first stage in me seeking help and prevention. Should I be increasing calcium dosage? Chiropractic? surgery??? Very worried...

     
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    Old 06-25-2007, 02:34 PM   #2
    saversano
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    Re: minor boney lipping....suddenly v scared!

    Hello and welcome .. We sure do have advice but what is "lipping" ? I have never heard of this

     
    Old 06-25-2007, 03:08 PM   #3
    jacquelineforde
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    Re: minor boney lipping....suddenly v scared!

    lipping is boney growths...something like the bone trying to repair itself...maybe similar to spurs..

    Last edited by HBMod07; 07-05-2007 at 07:07 PM.

     
    Old 06-26-2007, 01:47 PM   #4
    Chris54
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    Re: minor boney lipping....suddenly v scared!

    Bone spurs can be nothing and then again they can be causing damage to nerves. I have bone spurs at the L3-L4 area and will be having them removed at my next surgery. They are pressing into my Thecal sac. This area appears to be generating my pain. Since they are in the canal area the doctor is going to enlarge the area so the nerve can be free again. I hope there was no great damage done to any nerves in that area. I have other entrapped nerves also, but not from bone spurs. Bone spurs I understand, can be signs of damage in other surrounding areas. My bone spurs were only identified on the cat-scan/dye (myelogram) I had done in early 2006. The MRI/dye in mid 2006 did not show any of these spurs. I would start with a MRI/dye and/or a cat-scan/dye. x-rays don't really show as much as these other test do. See a spine specialist.

     
    Old 06-26-2007, 03:09 PM   #5
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    Re: minor boney lipping....suddenly v scared!

    I don't know much about lipping but I would just like to say....Stay away from chiropracters. Go straight to a spine specialist. You might have to visit a few to get the right doctor, but don't give up. A chiro will likely make your problem worse. Good luck!

     
    Old 07-04-2007, 03:28 PM   #6
    jacquelineforde
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    Re: minor boney lipping....suddenly v scared!

    Thanks for views but have update info and more advice questions please. Since I last logged on I did go to a chiropractor, and he has identified scoliosis, although he wants to see the X rays to confirm how much curvature. So now I am still as panicked ( I mean, curvature is not good, right?) and unsure what I should be doing. At present I am 'signed up' to go back for sessions (of what I don't know) and acupuncture but I do rather feel like I am just being a puppet and going from plliar to post.... Can scolisis be 'reversed' in any way, or do I accept a life of pain management via acupunture?

     
    Old 07-04-2007, 06:06 PM   #7
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    Re: minor boney lipping....suddenly v scared!

    scoliosis in slight amounts is very common (I have a minor amount) and it usually doesnt cause pain or problems unless its very severe, like you walk bent 45 degrees to one side. for example Ive had mine all my life and it never caused pain, my fusion was due entirely to a fall.

    not many of us have had good experiences with chiros. dont let him/her talk you into anything you dont understand. some are ok, others not. how did you get referred to this person?

    find out exactly what they want to do and let us know. we arent doctors but we have a lot if experience with back problems and can probably tell you if they are trying to BS you or not.
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    Last edited by zeroman; 07-04-2007 at 06:08 PM.

     
    Old 07-04-2007, 08:49 PM   #8
    JohnM22
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    Re: minor boney lipping....suddenly v scared!

    Hi, jacquelineforde:

    Most people with AS have intermediate X-ray results with the term 'lipping.' I suggest that you have the HLA B27 test. The lipping turns into syndesmophytes resulting in spinal fusion.

    Elimination of dietary starch, especially refined (flour products) and soluble (corn, potatoes), is important in control of AS (see NSD; No Starch Diet or Carol Sinclairs "The New IBS Low-Starch Diet" published in UK). Careful with NSAIDs and steroids; both of these drugs can greatly accelerate AS.

    Some common symptoms of AS: Sacroiliitis (inflammation of the hips, SIJs), lumbago (lower spine), sciatica, costochondritis (ribcage pains), bursitis, iritis, plantar fasciitis (heel spurs), and especially morning stiffness that gets better after some movement. Fatigue is another problem in AS.

    You may not have AS, but the X-ray changes called lipping is very unnatural in someone under 50 years old; it is the result of osteoporosis (osteomalacia) often secondary to AS or ReA.

    Best Regards,
    John

     
    Old 07-04-2007, 11:35 PM   #9
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    Re: minor boney lipping....suddenly v scared!

    [QUOTE=jacquelineforde;3080182] I did go to a chiropractor, and he has identified scoliosis, although he wants to see the X rays to confirm how much curvature.

    Do not get overly concerned at this point. If you are experiencing DDD you will have some lipping. Degeneration of the vertebral disks results primarily in bony lipping around the margins of the vertebral bodies called osteophytosis. When I had my initial appointment with my neurologist, he thought I had scoliosis, but it actually was just my altered stance due to my back injury.

    I had found out, when dealing with a chiropractor, if he scheduled multiple visits over multiple week, he was just trying to drain my insurance. The good chiropractor I went to was able to get me adjusted in 1 or 2 visits. But that was all he could do for me, it was by no means fixing the underlying problem. I really recommend you see a neurosugeon to get a complete diagnosis.

     
    Old 07-09-2007, 03:11 PM   #10
    jacquelineforde
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    Re: minor boney lipping....suddenly v scared!

    Dear all
    Can I just say before anything else, thank you so much for all comments. It actually means alot just to have people offer advice and obviously very experienced input because I am still so very very confused and scared. I really don't know what to do next though as general consensus here now seems to be 'no' to the chiropractor. A bit more info, in the hopes for more advice...I am British, live in Portugal, have no medical cover as self employed so at present have gone from paying a fortune for hourly physiotherapist (when i had no idea what I had so was told by my GP i had weak muscles), then decided on chiropractor when GP finally mentioned in passing that i had 'minor boney lipping so would probably mean I had early onset osteoarthristis'. At this point I freaked, searched the Internet like crazy and went for chiropractor idea just from that. I had to find one myself here ( but from word of mouth recommendation) as they are not common philosophy in Portugal. I had first session last week and he decided from physical exam and pain history (the pain is bad now) I had scoliosis ( awaiting xrays being sent here from UK). His advice was treat twice per week, an absolute must in his view, once not enough. Session one of treatment just happened. I was in for ten minutes, shocked it was so quick, he seemed to do some manipulation and acupunture (well, I felt what I guess was that and he told me he would be doing that). I asked him how come so quick and his response was simple if not a little irritated "the treatment is quick"...hmm I am left very uncomfortable. I actually felt I was offending him if I asked more, and yet I have a million more questions. I appreciate we are waiting for the x rays for him to get the full picture. He showed me a skeleton and my version, and explained the lipping is caused by the scoliosis (right?), and that the scoliosis seems very minor, was probably from birth and not noticed or corrected. I now want to know if I am simply managing the pain with him or if there is actually a away to treat, ie, prevent further curving. Guys I went for chiro because somewhere online I read that it was the way to go, now I see here the advice seems to go against that. I believe here I have found people who can actually advise me but I have to say that when seeing things like surgery etc I get more scared. I am new to the whole back pain subject, I don't know what AS is, or DDD ( Degenerative something right?), I'm afraid I know very little terminology here ( but am a well educated person I promise you!). I will go with whatever you guys advise, or ask this Chiro guy whatever questions you suggest at next session. Am I wasting money with his twice weekly session advice? I mean ten mins????? Do i now look for 'spine specialist' (thought Chiropractor was that) or neurosurgeon here (how, I have no idea) Sorry, I have waffled but really really appreciate your input.....

    Last edited by jacquelineforde; 07-10-2007 at 03:18 PM.

     
    Old 07-14-2007, 02:47 PM   #11
    jacquelineforde
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    Re: minor boney lipping....suddenly v scared!

    me again...hope you guys are still around to help as I really do appreciate your guidance..please believe me when I say it is all I have just now! Still as confused as ever. New info. Went to chiropractor (session 2 armed with xray and many questions to see where this is really going-wanted to give him chance with xrays this time).He saw 'moderate degeneration below L5', he nows says this new info gives him a programme idea which is 6-24 sessions to 'stabilise', then once per month 'maintenance'. UK Xray report was 'lumbar spine: no significant loss of alignment (chiro says scoliosis), minor boney lipping, no frank disc space narrowing (chiro sees moderate degeneration), no vertebral collapse'. Does disc space narrowing have anything to do with degeneration of L5? Moderate is bad right? Are these reports conflicting? I am due back to UK soon so am thinking I should ask to see a spine specialist there as you guys suggested. Would that be an osteopath? So many questions I know, sorry. I'm just so worried.

     
    Old 07-14-2007, 10:39 PM   #12
    Justoneofus
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    Re: minor boney lipping....suddenly v scared!

    Hi there. An Osteopath is doctor that uses hollistic approaches to help heal the body and mind. They deal with the whole body in general and maybe a few specialize is some specific areas of the body, but this is NOT a spine surgeon.

    You need to seek out a orthopaedic or Neuro surgeon, that deals only with spines when you get back in the UK.

    I personally have no faith in Chiros for spine issues. I think they are great for the typical manipulation etc, but if one has spine issues.. they shouldn't be messing with those patients. CHIIROS are NOT Doctors.

    I would seriously seek counsel of a good spine doc to get a proper opinion.

    Disc space narrowing is often attributed from DDD. Know that DDD is for lack of a proper term.. aging of your discs. ALL of us get this at some point in our lives and most have no problems with it. Then some have major problems with it, hence majority of us on this board.

    Moderate is not bad but something to pay attention to.

    Confliction. No, not necessarily. No significant loss of alignment, "could mean" you have some but is so mild.. it's not significant to be of concern.

    My personal opinion, I think you are putting too much stock in the diagnosis of the CHIRO. As I and others on this board will state.. get a proper medical diagnosis from a TRUE bonafide, medical specialist, spine doctor. That is going to be your best and true opinion that you will receive. AND.. unfortunately, it's a good idea to get a few of them, as even they can differ in opinions.

    All the best to you.
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    Old 07-15-2007, 05:40 AM   #13
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    Re: minor boney lipping....suddenly v scared!

    Please do not mess around with these guys, see a specialist Neuro or Ortho, you cannot afford to let this guys do any more harm you have to see the right person, you can do untold damage with these guys are anyone that is not qualified in this specific field, they are not doctors, even some here manage to but a dr of """ before there title.

    Go see a Neuro or Ortho, that is all the advice I can give you.
    I was told the same by a chiro, twice a week, then once a week and then maintenance programme ...... all it did was clock up the Euros...... and still in pain from it and sometimes worse..

    Take care,
    Round 1

     
    Old 07-15-2007, 10:41 AM   #14
    jacquelineforde
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    Re: minor boney lipping....suddenly v scared!

    Thank you so much for responding, this site is seriously impressive in the feedback and support you can get and I can't thank you people enough. I have just sent an email to my UK GP requesting referral to specialist, however I sent it before reading these recent responses and did ask for osteopath or neurologist referral. I'll now send another changing osteopath to orthopedic or neurologist then. By the way, forgot a small part of inital X ray report... 'Pedicles and SI joints maintained'. Not sure if significant but any thoughts appreciated. I was due to go back to chiro next week for the next 4 weeks til I return to UK (as I was just going continue with him and see the specialist in UK break as well) but I guess from most input here I should just cancel that as it's nothing but a moneyspinner, and get to the ortho/neuro appointment instead, even if have to go private (as no idea when my GP will get the referral).
    I have to admit... the term 'moderate' is still really upsetting me as I just keep thinking (please don't laugh at my naiviety!) that my spine is too young for that word...

     
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