It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Bipolar Disorder Message Board

  • Cyclothymia/BP II -what's the difference?

  • Post New Thread   Closed Thread
    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Old 05-02-2005, 06:31 AM   #1
    Human Child
    Junior Member
     
    Human Child's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2005
    Posts: 41
    Human Child HB User
    Cyclothymia/BP II -what's the difference?

    Hello, everyone. Still in the process of being dx. (seeing GP today, Tdoc for 2nd time tomorrow, and appointment w/ Pdoc near furture. Tdoc thinks I may be BP). Anyway, still doing research and came across cyclothymia.

    From what I read, it sounds like BP II to to me. Can anyone explain the difference to me? The info I read says it is a precursor to BP 1 or BP II.

    But I can't see a difference between cyclo and BP II. Any ideas?

    Thanks for any insight.

    HC

     
    Sponsors Lightbulb
       
    Old 05-02-2005, 04:24 PM   #2
    *music23*
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    *music23*'s Avatar
     
    Join Date: Mar 2001
    Location: IL, USA
    Posts: 687
    *music23* HB User
    Lightbulb Re: Cyclothymia/BP II -what's the difference?

    Hey,
    Let me start with BPI to answer your question.
    BPI is bipolar where the manias tend to be very, very severe, but the depressions tend to be not of the worst variety.
    BPII is where the manias tend to be not so severe, but the depressions are debilitating.
    Cyclothymia is basically a mild version of bipolar. People usually experience mild to moderate depressions, and hypomanias (mild, non-psychotic manias).
    There seem to be exceptions to those rules though. For example, I have had manias that easily qualify as manias versus hypomanias due to psychotic symptoms. But I would have to say that I have depressions way more than manias or hypomanias, and when I do get "up", they don't tend to be of the worst variety. It's rare that I get so manic that I'm psychotic. Yet I was diagnosed BP1 because of those few manias. And my depressions have definitely been of the worst variety- hospitalization, suicide attempts, self-mutilation, not being able to even move, etc. So I seem to be more like BPII because the depressions are my biggest worry, yet that wasn't what I was diagnosed.
    A lot of people think that BP1 just means "more severe" than BP2, but that's a misconception. It's more severe for the MANIA... but not for the depression.
    But getting back to your ORIGINAL question (apologies for my tangent about my own self), cyclothymia is a mild bipolar- no psychosis, mild to moderate symptoms only on either the highs or the lows.
    Hope that helps,
    Kristina
    __________________
    Just doing what's quintsessential...

    Last edited by *music23*; 05-02-2005 at 04:25 PM.

     
    Old 05-02-2005, 04:29 PM   #3
    *music23*
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    *music23*'s Avatar
     
    Join Date: Mar 2001
    Location: IL, USA
    Posts: 687
    *music23* HB User
    Wink Re: Cyclothymia/BP II -what's the difference?

    You know what, I may actually be wrong on something. I'm sorry...
    I was just looking online at the DSM IV (psychiatric diagnostic criteria book) and next to the links that will take you to the various bipolar definitions it says:

    Bipolar I Disorder (mania with/without major depression)
    Bipolar II Disorder (hypomania with major depression)
    Cyclothymic Disorder (numerous brief episodes of hypomania and minor depression)

    So I guess maybe BP 1 means you have to have full-blown mania but depression doesn't have to be that bad, but can... and BP 2 means you don't have full blown manias but you MUST have major depression.
    Sorry for the inconsistancy!
    Kristina
    __________________
    Just doing what's quintsessential...

     
    Old 05-03-2005, 05:04 AM   #4
    Human Child
    Junior Member
     
    Human Child's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2005
    Posts: 41
    Human Child HB User
    Re: Cyclothymia/BP II -what's the difference?

    Music,

    Thankyou. Been reading that info on line as well. Still confused though.

    Feels like I have both cyclo and BP 2.

    I have numerous episodes of minor depression with hypo episodes.

    Not sure what qualifies as major depression but I have had more serious episodes where I avoid everyone (lay around, don't answer the phone, don't dress, don't want to talk to anybody, nothing is pleasurable (even if I could find the energy to engage in it- what's the point, empty, guilt, anxiety, anger, suicidal thoughts).

    I get suicidal thoughts when I'm hypo also - like running and jumping off a bridge, driving into a tree- and actually think I'd be more prone to carry them out at that point because destructiveness seems to arouse me at that point (maybe you could tell me if that is 'normal' for BP hypomania). I also cut when I'm hypo-not depressed.

    Anyway, thanks.

     
    Old 05-03-2005, 05:39 AM   #5
    keystone206
    Veteran
    (female)
     
    keystone206's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2003
    Location: keystone IA USA
    Posts: 307
    keystone206 HB User
    Re: Cyclothymia/BP II -what's the difference?

    I am in the Cyclothymia catogory and I think it fits me pretty well. I have, like you had thoughts at one time or another of running into traffic or something like that, but not for some time. I think the medication has taken that away.
    I get slightly depresses, but it is really mild and leaves quickly. I would rather have the mania!
    __________________
    Lynda

     
    Old 05-03-2005, 07:59 AM   #6
    Human Child
    Junior Member
     
    Human Child's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2005
    Posts: 41
    Human Child HB User
    Re: Cyclothymia/BP II -what's the difference?

    Keystone,

    Yep, me too. I like the mania. Except at the end when the high starts to get lower and the lows start creeping in and keep getting lower and lasting longer until the low is all there is.

     
    Old 05-03-2005, 08:35 AM   #7
    polarized13
    Inactive
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Mar 2005
    Location: Minnesota, just moved from California where I lived my whole life.
    Posts: 441
    polarized13 HB User
    Re: Cyclothymia/BP II -what's the difference?

    Hey guys,

    Thanks for all the good information in this thread. I always thought that bipolar II was like bipolar lite ~ the same to a lesser degree. I get the manias to the point of phychosis, and the major depressions, but I've never gotten suicidal, so I guess that's why I'm bipolar I. Very interesting stuff ~ I've never even heard of cyclothymia before now. Good to know!!

    I also used to get those strange sudden urges to just turn my car into oncoming traffic and things like that. I never really thought that much about it, I never considered doing it, I just thought those kinds of things went through everyone's mind once in a while. I haven't gotten those thoughts since I've been on meds either.

    ~~heather~~

     
    Old 05-03-2005, 10:37 AM   #8
    Human Child
    Junior Member
     
    Human Child's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2005
    Posts: 41
    Human Child HB User
    Re: Cyclothymia/BP II -what's the difference?

    Hi, Heather.

    Itís my understanding that what differentiate BP1 from BP 2 is the psychotic state and/or mixed state. I read that BP 2 is mania or hypomania with major depressive episodes but no psychosis or mixed states. Of course now, many BP 2ís will say they have mixed states. And, I think I read somewhere that the DSM or DMS (can't remember which way it goes, sorry) is rethinking this issue.

    I did read that psychosis automatically qualifies as BP 1. My mother is BP 1 (changed recently to schizoaffective disorder).

    Cyclo is considered BP 3 and, supposingly, not as severe. So maybe this is the BP lite. But it sounds like BP 2 with rapid cycling to me. The depressions are supposed to be mild but if one is suicidal, I hardly think that is mild.

    Anyway, nice to hear from you again. Take care

    HC

     
    Old 05-03-2005, 12:22 PM   #9
    dave_81
    Senior Member
    (male)
     
    dave_81's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Mar 2005
    Posts: 230
    dave_81 HB User
    Re: Cyclothymia/BP II -what's the difference?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by polarized13
    Hey guys,

    Thanks for all the good information in this thread. I always thought that bipolar II was like bipolar lite ~ the same to a lesser degree. I get the manias to the point of phychosis, and the major depressions, but I've never gotten suicidal, so I guess that's why I'm bipolar I. Very interesting stuff ~ I've never even heard of cyclothymia before now. Good to know!!

    I also used to get those strange sudden urges to just turn my car into oncoming traffic and things like that. I never really thought that much about it, I never considered doing it, I just thought those kinds of things went through everyone's mind once in a while. I haven't gotten those thoughts since I've been on meds either.

    ~~heather~~
    Hello Heather,

    I was wondering if I could ask you a question. You mentioned in your post above that you've experienced pschosis when manic. I too have been suffering from irritability, severe depression, racing thoughts, some incoherence during conversations -- and some auditory hallucinations. I'm currently seeing a p-doc. What I'm experiencing doesn't really seem like schizophrenia, and I've been wondering if I could be experiencing some sort of manic-depressive psychosis. If it's ok with you, could you please elaborate a bit on what your manic/psychotic episodes are like (or have been like in the past) -- so that I can compare them with what I've been experiencing.

    Best,

    Dave_81

    Last edited by dave_81; 05-03-2005 at 12:24 PM.

     
    Old 05-04-2005, 04:11 AM   #10
    Human Child
    Junior Member
     
    Human Child's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2005
    Posts: 41
    Human Child HB User
    Re: Cyclothymia/BP II -what's the difference?

    Just found a good website about cyclo. Know we can't give out addresses so can't do that but-

    info indicates it is a mild form of BP but in 15-50% of cases goes on to develop into full blown BP disorder - that's why tx is important.

    Symptoms of hypo and depression appear to be the same but it looks like BP 2's have more and deeper depressions. Looks like they have more episodes of depression than hypo/mania.

    Cyclo's cycle faster and swing into hypo more often than BP 2's do, and go down but not as deep.

    Is treated with same meds - mood stabilizers and AD

     
    Old 05-04-2005, 04:21 AM   #11
    keystone206
    Veteran
    (female)
     
    keystone206's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2003
    Location: keystone IA USA
    Posts: 307
    keystone206 HB User
    Re: Cyclothymia/BP II -what's the difference?

    When I first went manic I was on ad meds for adhd. They took me off those, and I recently started Stratera, a non stimulant ad med. I am not sure what I think yet. Anyone else tried it?
    __________________
    Lynda

     
    Old 10-01-2005, 08:50 AM   #12
    WileECoyote76
    Newbie
    (female)
     
    WileECoyote76's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Oct 2005
    Posts: 4
    WileECoyote76 HB User
    Re: Cyclothymia/BP II -what's the difference?

    I am new to this message board...never used anything like this befoe. I am drawn here because I am a rapid cycler and I am looking for treatments others have used. I am taking 400 mg of Lamictal (the maximum I can take)every morning and that works great until 2:00pm (if I do not have caffeine - that will throw me into a manic episode for sure) after 2:00pm the lamictal becomes ineffective to help me keep the mania under control and the ride begins. I have tried to take 200 mg in the am and 200 mg in the afternoon but it takes the full 400 mg in the morning to keep the mania at bay. It wears off by afternoon and this leads to binge drinking, uncontrolled shopping, cleaning spurts (which I dont mind),starting projects that will never get finished, and the inability to go to sleep at a decent hour (which affects my work the next day) Problem is that this is not an occasional thing. It is nearly daily. I have an episode and then that thows me into a depressive episode (hungover, tired, upset over my spending, irritable). So what do you do for mania that is just waiting to break free? any ideas would be much appreciated.

     
    Old 10-01-2005, 10:33 AM   #13
    GatsbyLuvr1920
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    GatsbyLuvr1920's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Mar 2005
    Location: USA
    Posts: 1,871
    GatsbyLuvr1920 HB UserGatsbyLuvr1920 HB User
    Re: Cyclothymia/BP II -what's the difference?

    I have long suspected that I have cyclothymia, and the doctors do, too, so I might be put on a very small dose of Lamictal in the near future... Anyway, HumanChild- cyclothymia actually isn't "bipolar III"- it's "bipolar IV". There's actually six different types of bipolar disorder. They're classified as:
    bipolar I- severe, "full-blown" mania, which is characterized by psychotic symptoms such as delusions and/or hallucinations as well as severe, suicidal depressions
    bipolar II- milder episodes of hypomania that don't include psychotic features, but still can ruin a person's life, and severe, suicidal depressions; usually bipolar II's are the ones with rapid cycling and/or mixed episodes- bipolar I is the classic "euphoric" mania, whereas bipolar II usually encompasses all of the variations
    bipolar III- mania sparked by the use of an anti-depressant or some other substance such as a hallucinogen; the manic episode is not an only occurrence, and from then on, the person must be treated as if they naturally developed bipolar I or II
    bipolar IV- this is cyclothymia, which is a VERY mild form of bipolar disorder, and is not nearly as devastating as any of the above; the person fluctuates with mild mood swings throughout the day, or may have a three-day cluster of hypomania and then a three-day cluster of dysphoria/this is the person who, like me, can literally be miserable and irritable one minute, saying hateful things to someone, and be giddy and laughing the next. Do this with my mom (only) all the time, since I was four, so it's not "teenage mood swings"...
    bipolar V- the person receiving this diagnosis isn't actually bipolar, but has a high chance of becoming bipolar: they have suffered an major depressive episode, but despite not ever having been manic or hypomanic, it's very possible that they will have an episode in the future, due to a high genetic link to bipolar disorder
    bipolar VI- this person has only had manic episodes (usually those in bipolar I), without any indication of a depressive episode whatsoever; I've never heard of someone being only manic and never becoming depressed- I don't know if this is because someone who appears to be bipolar VI is put on medication after one manic episode and never has the chance to go into a depression, or if it's simply not possible...
    Hope this helped!
    -GatsbyLuvr1920-
    __________________
    "Not everything that steps out of line, and thus 'abnormal,' must necessarily be 'inferior.'"
    -Hans Asperger

     
    Old 10-01-2005, 05:43 PM   #14
    WileECoyote76
    Newbie
    (female)
     
    WileECoyote76's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Oct 2005
    Posts: 4
    WileECoyote76 HB User
    Re: Cyclothymia/BP II -what's the difference?

    I am curious about the straterra...let me know how it goes.

    Thank you Gatsby for the reply. My depression was knocked out with the Lamictal...it is the mania that is my problem. I am only depressed these days due to the let down of a full blown manic episode. Maybe I should be happy - no more suicidal thoughts, however, mania unmanaged is really scary too. I drink until I black out and do insanely crazy and dangerous things. I am going to try Topomax next. As an afternoon dose...Lamictal in the morning is working well. I feel fortunate however that I am not suffering severely from depression. Just need to know how to bring the mania down a notch.

    My friends think I am great - life of the party. I am sure you can relate. But the repercussions of my actions are - well let's just say I have been lucky on many occasions. I dont want to be that person anymore. Lithium is not an option for me, as well as depakote.

     
    Old 10-01-2005, 07:56 PM   #15
    GatsbyLuvr1920
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    GatsbyLuvr1920's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Mar 2005
    Location: USA
    Posts: 1,871
    GatsbyLuvr1920 HB UserGatsbyLuvr1920 HB User
    Re: Cyclothymia/BP II -what's the difference?

    Actually, I'm not thought of as the "life of the party" by most of my peers- my friends find me highly entertaining, but as I have very few close friends, most see me as the uncool, out-of-touch, nerdy, soical outcast... Probably because I'd much rather stay in my room, where my small hypomanic-like qualities are manifested in me suddenly having a surge of power and cleaning my room and working on my myriad of self-induced projects that never seem to get done because of procrastination related to OCD-related compulsive avoidance!
    -GatsbyLuvr1920-
    __________________
    "Not everything that steps out of line, and thus 'abnormal,' must necessarily be 'inferior.'"
    -Hans Asperger

     
    Closed Thread

    Related Topics
    Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
    New to all this, any advice to do with Cyclothymia please x gk sussex Bipolar Disorder 3 01-22-2010 01:36 PM
    cyclothymia, rapid cycling, and mixed episodes cyclomaniac Bipolar Disorder 4 08-19-2007 10:49 PM
    cyclothymia vs dysthymia bothered Depression 2 04-17-2007 02:35 PM
    Cyclothymia? - anyone here dealing w/? Adison Bipolar Disorder 10 08-30-2006 04:47 PM
    Cyclothymia and pregnancy JenW67 Bipolar Disorder 3 07-31-2006 06:40 AM
    Cyclothymia? jealibeanz Depression 2 01-29-2006 05:42 PM




    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Search this Thread:

    Advanced Search

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is Off
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are Off
    Pingbacks are Off
    Refbacks are Off




    Sign Up Today!

    Ask our community of thousands of members your health questions, and learn from others experiences. Join the conversation!

    I want my free account

    All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:07 PM.





    © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved.
    Do not copy or redistribute in any form!