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    Old 02-13-2007, 02:15 PM   #1
    suddenlyhere
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    Help - I need some answers on mania - I am at breaking point

    Hi Everyone,

    I am the recent xspouse of an unmedicated bp. I have told his family from day 1 that I was gravely concerned, but they responded by saying he appeared fine to them. He has lied about so many things because the things that he is doing are so totally unbelievable. People don't actually believe what I am saying - they think I have lost the plot, because he is not the type to do those sort of things.

    What I really need to know is when in mania and angry and aggressive - if additional stress is likely to prolong the mania, or cause a crash. Please I need advice - I need help.

    I have read all the previous threads, and I know that I am not the only one going through this sort of thing. This is a horrible illness - it destroys so much beauty in the world.

    I need to get a sense on the end of mania prior to the crash. I can't do this for too much longer.

    Thank you.

    Last edited by suddenlyhere; 03-15-2007 at 11:10 PM. Reason: edit

     
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    Old 02-13-2007, 03:12 PM   #2
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    Re: Help - I need some answers on mania - I am at breaking point

    Your situation sounds very complicated and I'm afraid I don't have any answers or suggestions for you. It is impossible to predict when a period of mania will end. It not only varies from one person to another, but also within that one person. I think you have to proceed to do whatever it takes to protect yourself, your assets and your health. I have no idea how the court system works in Australia...be sure you have an attorney that works in this area so that he can advocate for you.

    Take care of yourself. I am really sorry that you find yourself in this position.
    Tsohl

     
    Old 02-13-2007, 03:24 PM   #3
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    Re: Help - I need some answers on mania - I am at breaking point

    I am not a professional in law or medical but I think you need to worry about yourself at this point. If your health has been damaged because of this relationship you have to think of you because you can't change what he is doing but you need to protect your self financially and healthwise. I am sorry your going through this troubling time.

     
    Old 02-13-2007, 08:38 PM   #4
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    Re: Help - I need some answers on mania - I am at breaking point

    Hi suddenlyhere,

    The problem with an un-medicated BP is that it is truly progressive. As time goes by the episodes can get worse and often longer in duration. I feel for you as I'm dealing with the same exact thing right now trying to divorce a severely manic wife. I came to the conclusion weeks ago that I needed to worry about myself and my kids and let her deal with herself. She has spent upwards of $75K and bought another $225K property. She has the new boyfriend also but it is standard procedure for her mania. I've been forced to take legal action in an effort to protect my children.

    Find a good attorney to get the ball rolling in your favor. I know all the lying trying to make you out to be the bad guy hurts but in the end we both know what has happened and who we are deep down. Get yourself some help and don't worry about him. He will be forced to take responsibility for his actions sooner than later but only he will make that choice. I thought my wife would have already crashed but she's showing signs of reality hitting her. My boundaries are so set in stone she is having major problems accepting it. I know she will attempt to come back but my locks are changed and she's not getting the new keys.

    Stay strong and hopefully it will all be over soon for both of us.....

    God Bless............U&A
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    "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference".

     
    Old 02-13-2007, 11:05 PM   #5
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    Re: Help - I need some answers on mania - I am at breaking point

    Oh my gosh this is such a horribly stressful situation for you! I agree with the others, it's time to start taking care of YOU first and foremost. I know it wont be easy to not worry so much about all of this mess, but you can't let this ruin your health and well-being.

    As far as when his mania will crash it's probably impossible to say. There are so many factors that can play into this. Stress could prolong it or it could end it. It could really go either way. So I say just do what is best for you at this point.

    He seriously needs to start taking responsibility for his illness and seek treatment. If he is unwilling to do so then unfortunately there is not much you can do. I'm speaking from experience here. I lost a very dear friend/roommate because of my denial. She kept telling me I needed to get help, but I ignored her thinking "I'm fine...that's stupid...there's nothing wrong with me!" I don't blame her for not being my friend anymore. I didn't take responsibility for my illness when I should have and I did a lot of stupid things that I regret.

    But anyways, a crash will come for him sooner or later. Hopefully he will seek the treatment he needs before he gets down too deep.

     
    Old 02-14-2007, 02:11 PM   #6
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    Re: Help - I need some answers on mania - I am at breaking point

    Hi Llama and U&A,

    Thanks for your advice and kind words. U&A you are right - we do know the truth, and the lies and manipulation shouldnt affect us...but it does...particularly when he spreads these sort of things through your professional arena. I am trying to let go, and just accept where things are now.

    I am trying to work on the three cs, and accepting what I cannot change. I just find it so difficult, because it is so blooming obvious that none of it makes any sense!

    Thanks for your comments guys - some days are great, and some are not so great...and I just lie in wait of the next attack.

    Hope everything is going well for both of you - I send my love and positive wishes to you all.

    Last edited by suddenlyhere; 03-15-2007 at 11:08 PM. Reason: edit

     
    Old 02-16-2007, 02:54 PM   #7
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    Re: Help - I need some answers on mania - I am at breaking point

    Sometimes the Mania ends when the money runs out and a person is homeless and alone or ends up on the hospital....

     
    Old 02-18-2007, 01:43 PM   #8
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    Re: Help - I need some answers on mania - I am at breaking point

    Hi suddenlyhere.

    I did almost exactly what your husband did just over 3 years ago. In breif, left my wife for another woman, travelled europe extensively in 5 star hotels, ran of debts of ca 50K US (have another 8 years to pay off). Ended up pretty bad, lost my wife and job, still not employed. I did come down and when I did I felt utter shame and remorse. My wife took me back, but then depression kicked in and I asscociated the low with being back with her and that was the end of a 15 year relationship.

    Just because we are manic we are not stupid and soon learn how to convince people and appear plausable. And if we are paying the bills, its amazing how many people come along for the ride. And boy what a ride.

    My wife took the best form of action. Realising she could not reason with me, she did what she could temporarily to protect her self financially, recognising that as we were married my debt was joint debt and she was not prepared to subsidise my adulterous and extravigant lifestyle. She froze the joint account and on my return from paris I found that she had sold the Porsche to offset it against the mortgage.

    In your case it sounds a bit to late, but just take as many practical measures as possible.

    When manic I became a real life Walter Mitty. I lied so much I wouldn't know the truth if it smacked me in the face. I even belived my own lies.

    When I was manic my sex drive went off the scale and I was only interested in one person ME.

    When I came down I soon realised that the girl I was with was simply an oppertunist and ended the relationship. However the trust in my marriage was breeched and in my heart I knew it was impossible to repair.

    I have a good relationship with my ex-wife now. Long term I hope the best part, the friendship will be retained, but deep down I know my betayal still hurts her. We have been apart for over 2 years, but already she has been there for me on a couple of occasions.

    She has also forgiven me for some pretty poor behaviour towards her since we broke up.

    I could point you to a number of sites which will show you that his behaviour is quite typical, which would suggest forgiveness is in order. The money thing must be pretty stressfull but the infidelity is the hardest thing to deal with.

    One of the things about mania is that it frees you from inhibitions. I acted on impluse all the time, part of me wanted to do those things, I never did untill then because of the consequences. In mania u don't even concider the consequences, u just do what you want to do.

    Its not a nice thing to admit, just being honest.

    Good Luck

    Paul

     
    Old 02-18-2007, 03:58 PM   #9
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    Re: Help - I need some answers on mania - I am at breaking point

    Hi, Paul:

    It was interesting and very helpfulf and insightful reading your recent post. Coming from a male with bipolar gives me an inside look; the more I learn the better I understand and that leads to healing.

    My spouse is an unmedicated bipolar, who is currently in his sixth month of manic. It is by far the worse cycle, most severe, behavior is the most selfish, and he is impervious to the feelings of others. Since serving me with divorce papers, he now feels entitled to live as he wants. We are still in the same house; he will not leave. He comes as goes as HE chooses, wants, comes home all hours of the early morning and sometime stays out all night, all the while totally ignoring us - he feels the victim in his twisted and sick logic.

    In the past, when he did come down, there was never any regret, apologies, sadness for what he put me and our son through. At least you apologized and felt remorse; there is that humanity in you when the mania is over, and that is a lot.

    Can you tell me how long your manic cycles were and how long in between.
    You are so right when you say you did not think about the consequences of your actions and how they are affecting your family; that is the case in my situation. It is an example of arrogance and self-absorption that is immeasurable and hard to comprehend. It is shocking to be kicked to the curb in such a demeaning way, to be tossed away without a feeling without a bat of an eyelash. It's a cold, scarey, empty, hollow way to be treated, and it cannot be forgiven at this point.

     
    Old 02-18-2007, 11:39 PM   #10
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    Re: Help - I need some answers on mania - I am at breaking point

    Hi Tahoeone

    My first ever mania lasted 3 months but did no real obvious harm to my relationship as I was in hospital when it was at its most extream. It had been preceeded by some excessive spending, extravagant gifts ect. but these were never beyond my means. It was however the first time my wife and I were in real conflict.

    With a close personal friend of mine she had persuaded me to get checked out by a pDoc at hospital on the basis that I was convinced in some pretty heavy delusional belifes, that I was at the center of a global conspriracy and that I had evidence and paperwork that would sink capitalism, crash stock markets ect. Neither of them argued with me, instead cleverly suggesting that as they were finding it hard to follow my logic, I should get checked out by a pdoc and get the ok to take this info to the police. However in hospital I was not seen by a pdoc 4 3 days, my condition deteriorated and I became increasingly paranoid, trusting nobody inc. now my wife.

    Shocked by the standards of the National Health facility where I was placed (it's since been knocked down and replaced with in excellent new unit), she did everthing in her power to get me a place in the best private facility in the area. However I was not keen to move as I was happy where I was and not aware of the poor quality of care I was receiving. To get over this I was shown the brochure, highlighting, golf, swimming, tennis etc. and quickly agreed. Things turned sour when we got there as a was placed in the secure wing CCTV etc. (not a great idea for a paranoid whose brain contained enougth info to sink the state) and I just screamed at her that she'd locked me up and tricked me. As the tears trickelled down her face, I felt no concern that my words were hurting her and I was not aware that her actions were well meaning, I had been hoodwinked and she was not to be trusted. For me this first episode lased 3months. I did not find a pDoc I trusted untill the time my divorce was finalized, so untill then I always felt she was on there side.

    It was then over 6 months till my next full blown eppisode. I say full blown because we always can pin point the day we went mad by the day we did the next really stupid thing. However in my case the mania has been creeping up for some time. Its this level of mania where for me the confict starts to grow and my contempt begins to build. My wife knew there was something wrong and started asking me lots of questions. Having your sanity questioned is not a great feeling, that your spouse is beginning to have doubts about you again makes you resentfull. This was exagerated for me as I was running a company with 26 employees and if I wanted something done it was done (When I went full blown, collegues suggested I took some time off and I openly cried in front of them) and they loved being round a guy with all these ideas and a can do attitude. But in stark contrast at home, my spouse wouldn't agree to anything.

    You will read else were that BPs both male and female often expirience an increased sex drive, which combined with a loss of inhibition can lead to infidelity. During my stay in hospital my wife had reverted to letting our two young children sleep in our bed when they woke up (I think partly for her own comfort). However on my return she steadfastly refused to break the habit. It was a pretty big bed with enough room for everyone she reasoned, but if you want to sleep train them go ahead. I was having alot of problems with sleep (v common), had a Company to run by day and as I had become incapable of expressing myself in our relationship without arguement, I moved into the guest bedroom. Even though this was my decission, my feelings were of rejection. But unable to express myself, I started comming home later and often went out in my town as my wife had taken to going to bed by 9pm as the kids were waking here up during the night!

    My infidelity- I'm not a bad looking guy, six foot two, slim (at the time but meds have screwed that up a bit) and was often told by male freinds and my brother that I got looks from girls (after my divorce, meeting them never proved to be a problem), I am also pretty gregerious which can be misinterpreted in some situations and to my shame will addmit to comming close to cheating twice in my 15 year relationship, but something held me back. Even though i'd resisted tempation, I was racked with guilt on both occasions.

    This girl was an Austrailian back packer working in our local pub (on the door step). 23, tall, dark, slim and generally conciderd to be very atractive, I certainally thought so. I flirted the first time I ordered a drink and she flirted straight back. Over the next 2 weeks I frequented the pub more frequently, enjoying her attention. Then a chance meeting in a bar mid week led to an acceleration, we got drunk, I walked her home as it was on my way. We kissed, she sucked my fingers suggestively and asked me upstairs. I declined, i'd like to say because I was married, but mostly because it was already 2am and excuses were going to get a bit implassable on a work night. It should be pointed out that this girl was aware of both my marrage and my BP diagnosis.

    Over the next 4 days I made plans to leave my wife, discussed this with no one including the girl. Then one morning I simply walked into the bedroom told my wife I was leaving and started packing. She almost screamed with dispair, cried excessively and begged me for an explanation. I gave her none. And I promise you I felt absolutely no emotion what so ever. Just announced I was off to the gym 4 and early swim b 4 work, both of which I did. That evening I moved into a local hotel. Then 2 days later dissapeared for 4 days with the girl, turning my mobile of and worrying everybody who cared about me. When I turned it on there were over 90 messages from friends and family. When we listened to them I simply laughed at the increasing level of concern. They were all telling me how devastated my wife was but I promise you I felt nothing.

    A week later she agreed I could vist the children. I gave them little of my attention. Instead I almost immeadiatly turned on her, ridiculing her personallity personality, familiy, pointing out the physical imperfections in her body post childhood, her now poor love making skills, I could go on, but I think you've got the picture. She finally cracked and started throwing things,when she missed I simply laughed pointing out that she couldn't even do that properly. This was in front of the two children, who still remember it to this day. For my youngest daughter, it is her only memory of mummy and daddy together.

    I mentioned the practical things my ex did to protect herself. She also made a personal plee to the girl, which we both laughed at after. But her final act to save the marriage and get me some help was to approach my pdoc to have me sectioned under the Mental Health Act, effectivly locked up against my own will for the protection of myself and others. I had to sit before my pdoc, GP and a social worker and argue my sanity. My pdoc wanted me put away, the social worker not 2 and my doctor sat on the fence. The paperwork was drawn up, but I was given a 2 week stay of execution. If i'd been locked up it could have saved my marriage. But my wife had used the system against me with the threat of locking me up again (my biggest fear still) and I hated her 4 it.

    I withdrew from everyone who cared about me because I felt they were on my wifes side.

    In my 3-4 months with the girl she did not offer to pay for a single thing. When I ended it, one of my closest freinds who had stuck by me, yet never gave advice said, thank god for that, there was no telling you so I didn't bother, but she saw you comming a mile away.

    I never knew that this part of my character existed. But I promise you it is real. Once it comes to the surface, for me it hasn't really gone away. If my ex dissagrees with me even now when I am stable it sometimes gets the better of me and i send off a foul and abusive txt. It seems to be a Mr hyde side of my character. And just like above, I take great pleasure in hurting, only now it lasts just a few hours then when the rage subsides I just feel guilty and stupid.

    I think Mr Hyde lives in all of us, men and woman, its just that most of us never meet him. Google Winston Churchill (also BP) & Pshycosis and you will find a famous speach describing the German nation in WW2 as being under mass Psychosis of the ****'s. The nations sense of injustice in their economic plight after WW1 was harnessed by the ****s who then built it up as national rage and focused it on the most successful community, the jews.

    Is a BP i feel an injustice at having this illness, that built into rage and I focused it on destroying the one I loved and a relationship that really mattered.

    Starting to wish I hadn't used my real name on this site! Maybe i'll change it!

    MR HYDE

     
    Old 02-20-2007, 06:04 AM   #11
    twoeyez
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    Re: Help - I need some answers on mania - I am at breaking point

    Hi Paul :

    The following was in your last post to me on another thread :

    "Sorry eyes, not avoiding anything or anyone. I was open and honest with my thoughts, ideas and feeling from day one after diagnosis. Because of the prolonged nature of my first episode, I had to face my work force in the knowledge that they knew I had had some sort of 'breakdown' spending over 6 weeks in a hospital and 6 weeks at home.

    All the openness and honesty in the world wouldn't have helped me as it took over two and a half years to find meds that stabilised me.

    In that time I wrecked havoc in my personal life and lost a great job which I loved and offered me a promising and secure future.

    If you knew me you would realise that I am not the sort of person to hide.

    My problem was simply that I was too ill to have any insight into what I was doing.

    My interest here has been in finding just how much of my behaviour was typical.

    What I have yet to come to terms with is my real sense of loss. You have no idea how happy and fullfilling my life was b 4 BP. It had exceeded my every expectation.

    I am now an unemployed part-time father. And as a suffered (victim) can find nobody to blame as every action I made had a negative reaction, the implications of which I have to live with for the rest of my life.

    By the time I got stable it was too late 2 go back on a personal or proffesional level. I didn't even know if I would have wanted to but it would have been nice to have still had the choice. But people gave up on me. Yet in their shoes I would have prob done the same.

    I have a great new relationship with a woman I love deeply. But if I get ill again? Now I just have to find an employer to take a chance on me. My resume/cv is excelent showing great progress and stability of employment. But now theres a hole which will put doubt in peoples minds."

    Over to you then.
    Regards
    Paul

    I'm happy for you that you are Now starting your life over with some stabilization to your BPD.

    My thoughts are to continue to look foward to your new job situations.
    Your new relationships with your new mate. And staying postive with your Ex-wife. Treat youe children with love and respect and Fatherly support...
    In short,try to not drell on your manic episodes. That's all over. Work toward the postive activities that you are purssuing today and every day in the future,

    Just thoughts I used to acheive my stability. Now 23 years into it, I still use these tools every day.

    I wish you the best now and in your future.

    Work toward..."Forgeting the mistakes of the past and press on to the greater achievements of the future." From the Optimist Creed.

    Carry on...

    Eyes

     
    Old 02-20-2007, 03:53 PM   #12
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    Re: Help - I need some answers on mania - I am at breaking point

    Hello Paul,

    Thank you so much for honestly telling your story. To be honest it is quite scary - there are far too many similarities to my situation.

    I really appreciate your honesty in this - you made me realise the situation on the forum. Here I am (with many other x and current spouses) trying to resolve issues in our lives, help the people we care about, and get information from others that have knowledge that we simply don't.
    And sometimes it feels like there are no answers.

    But what we ask (without realising) is for you to deal with your worst memories and demons - bring them back into the present for a moment or two, to help those of us that don't understand. That is a big ask.

    Thank you. You have helped me with your story.
    This illness is devastating to so many people, and it is so insideous in its methods. But it is the illness, not the people. I can't believe that people are bad. Actions, yes, but heck - we all do those at some point in time in our lives.

    I would really appreciate those links that you mentioned earlier. I keep thinking the more that I can learn about this illness, the more manageable it is for me (and many others) to deal with these issues. If people can understand a bit more about this illness, they can deal with it without fear, suspicion, anger and bitterness. That has got to be good for everyone involved.

    Again, thank you. You have helped me a lot.

    Last edited by suddenlyhere; 03-15-2007 at 11:08 PM. Reason: edit

     
    Old 02-20-2007, 05:01 PM   #13
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    Re: Help - I need some answers on mania - I am at breaking point

    Hi Suddenlyhere

    Glad the dramatically abrebiated story of the mania which broke my marriage has helped in some way.

    At my Section meeting. I was at the time completely Pshycotic beliving I was on a mission to save the world as the second coming of christ. But we can hide these delusions. The commitee consited of 3 people. I have talked to all of them since.

    My pdoc knew the seriosness of the situation having talked to my wife first hand and having seen me almost weekly over 6 months, he definately wanted to commit me. A social worker I had never met before felt this would not be good for me due to the additional trauma it might cause. My GP sat on the fence having spoken to me about the last time I had been locked in a secure wing and how scared and paranoid i had become.

    All however admit that I controlled myself so well at interview that they had no idea how delusional I had become. Even when manic we can be quite plausable to outsiders. They also see a marriage in crisis and expect a bit of bad mouthing of the spouse and 'her' unreasonable behaviour.

    About 2 months before I had my first ever episode, I was planning to buy into my company. This nessesitated a 500,000 pound lone (i was sane), I simply explained the rationale and we were in agreement within half an hour as she thought it a great idea too. We trusted each others jugement. Yet within a few months we were almost never to agree again. For me that frustration led to resentment and that is where you are not.

    I'm in the Philipines at the moment (don't worry it's not a manic spending spree!) of to go swimming with Whale Sharks. Will look this thread up when I get back.

    If you want to look at the other stuff i've posted I think u just double click on my name on this posting. Some of it may be usefull.

    I'd like to think that had my wife shown me this thread when I was ill that it would have made a difference. But I know I would have just felt sorry for one poor guy that everyones calling mad because he has left his manipulating controlling wife.

    I've been stable for quite a while, but only just come away from that conclusion even now because it suites us to blame other people.

    I hope that this realization will help me develop an exelent relationship which will benifit the children. My parents didn't talk 4 20years after their divorce and that is just at weddings, christnings and funnerals. Not great for young kids to here their parents slagging each other.

    Please do everything 2 protect yourself possible. And remember, when you do get the authorities involved he will have to get very well to understand your actions.

    Mind you, the way he has walked all over you. If that doesn't save the day, at least you can say u tried your best in what is an incredibily stressfull stituation and very difficult to solve.

    Remember where the Authorities are concerned, focus on his behaviour, how much you care for his well being and avoid at all costs don't sound like the bitter woman scourned. Because thats the line he will take to stop himself getting the help he needs.

    Good luck.

    Will pick up this thread when I get back to see how things are going. But while sunning myself, will try to think of any ideas, practical or emmotional which might help.

    I will be honest with you about what I was thinking at the time. Then maybe you can get one step ahead, rather than just having to react to your ongoing hell hear. Remember, he is in there somewhere, but if he is anything like me you are dealing with a pretty nasty character. Sometimes impulsive but also capable of being cruel and callculating.

    As far as access to credit goes. I took out 4 additional cards each with 10,000 dollar limits in just 4 months and my wife knew nothing about it as I collected them from the banks rather that have them sent home and within 6 weeks of leaving had a new postal address. And after my household commitments still had 7,000 dollars a month to play with. So don't think you are on top of his finances. We can be very credible when we have to and boy do we love cash.

    By the way, I was on the board of Directors, felt very secure in my job. Yet 2 weeks before it happened my wife told me I would loose my job. As usual I just laughed and swore at her.

    Good luck & best wishes.


    Paul

     
    Old 02-20-2007, 05:14 PM   #14
    paulgarrett01
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    Re: Help - I need some answers on mania - I am at breaking point

    By the way, talking about carrers. I got the MDs post after 8 years hard work and emense success at the beginning of thet year. Went manic in March. Formally separated September, Lost the job/career the following January. Wife filled for divorce in March, finalised in October. Been out of work since, nobody in the industry will touch me inspite of the old track record.

    Familiy and Friends could see it comming, but I was miles away.

    Paul

     
    Old 02-20-2007, 05:50 PM   #15
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    Re: Help - I need some answers on mania - I am at breaking point

    Paul :

    Your most resent post said "Will pick up this thread when I get back to see how things are going. But while sunning myself, will try to think of any ideas, practical or emmotional which might help.

    I will be honest with you about what I was thinking at the time. Then maybe you can get one step ahead, rather than just having to react to your ongoing hell hear. Remember, he is in there somewhere, but if he is anything like me you are dealing with a pretty nasty character. Sometimes impulsive but also capable of being cruel and callculating."

    Now I'm saying.......

    Wow, that is really strong talk for someone who said that he was now stabilizied and was working toward a new life.

    Paul, I'm really about to give up on you. You seem to just love to stay in a manic mood. All I have to say....is watch out.

    I do have a concern for you. But.......you don't seem to be awear of any
    thing I say. But ....you have your own ego and......a emotional BPD ...
    that my be ON your own your side .....as you see it

    Suddenly :

    You said : "I really do feel for him, but I think that he needs to fall this far this time, and this will hopefully mean that he will take this seriously (and perhaps his family and freinds will also) I am however watching for crash and suicidal signs or patterns - and if and when I see those - I will be seen as the "crazy" woman.
    I will speak with family and freinds again, and put out an order for involuntary assistance with the authoritories. This is the only help I can give, and unfortunely I am the only one that knows what is really going on and just how serious it is."

    Just know that I'm here for you too. I have mission. you can read about it on my threads an posts. Go to my user name EYESTWO22. God will be with you my dear.

    And Paul...also with you...

    Carry On

    Eyes

    Get back with me if you want ...

    Eyes

    Last edited by twoeyez; 02-20-2007 at 06:27 PM.

     
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