It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Bipolar Disorder Message Board

  • When the fight is over & FLIGHT has come

  • Post New Thread   Closed Thread
    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Old 02-25-2007, 12:35 PM   #1
    Senpai
    Inactive
    (male)
     
    Join Date: Jan 2005
    Location: Here,there,everywhere
    Posts: 86
    Senpai HB User
    When the fight is over & FLIGHT has come

    I wanted to hear from those who are BP, that truly know the feeling of just wanting out of whatever relationship they are in, instead of continuing or fighting.

    What do yo feel when this finally happens? Is it another moment of rage, of mania that leads you to it? But even if it is, what is it that you desire most at that time? And is the desire to end it, to be free and alone that mainly what drives you, more than a specific problem in the relationship you are in? In a case where the "problem" in the relationship is likely one that can be fixed, is just the feeling of being in something too complex and overwhelming?

    I realize that individuals have different feelings and reasons behind why they want "space" or to be away. But what is it that you felt at the time? What is it about the closeness of another in whatever relationship that became a issue?

    I think I, like others, want to just make it easier on the person going through the mood swings, and somewhere down the road learn to avoid doing harm in whatever way, including helping the person who is BP from feeling they have to run & then suffering later for it.

    Last edited by Senpai; 02-26-2007 at 11:36 PM.

     
    Sponsors Lightbulb
       
    Old 02-26-2007, 07:54 PM   #2
    Senpai
    Inactive
    (male)
     
    Join Date: Jan 2005
    Location: Here,there,everywhere
    Posts: 86
    Senpai HB User
    Re: When the fight is over & FLIGHT has come

    Hmm. Interesting. 42 views at this thread and not a single reply. Perhaps I did something wrong. Maybe time to kill this thread.

     
    Old 02-26-2007, 08:23 PM   #3
    goody2shuz
    Inactive
    (female)
     
    Join Date: May 2004
    Location: New York
    Posts: 5,805
    goody2shuz HB Usergoody2shuz HB User
    Re: When the fight is over & FLIGHT has come

    Hi....sorry you have been left disappointed. I am not BP so didn't originally respond but just wanted to welcome you anyway letting you know that this is a wonderful place and perhaps some like me felt as if they couldn't really answer your questions.

    I must be honest that I am somewhat confused as to what you are asking. Are you a non-BPer wondering why a BPer runs away from a relationship??? I am sorry if I am not following you but to be honest I was a bit confused by your post and what you are actually asking.

    But being that you were asking a BPers point of view I didn't think I would be able to help but perhaps if you clarify things you may see more of a response.

    Hang in there....the people here are GREAT!! Sorry I couldn't be of more help....I have a 15 year old daughter recently diagnosed with BP and when it comes to friendships she often has difficulty with that. I am hoping that with therapy she will work through some of those issues. From what I read, BP definitely affects all relationships that a BPer has and has a better chance of working on that when on the right meds and working with a good therapist. Perhaps that will help you some. I am sure that others will chime in too.

    Have a nice day ~ Goody

     
    Old 02-26-2007, 11:34 PM   #4
    Senpai
    Inactive
    (male)
     
    Join Date: Jan 2005
    Location: Here,there,everywhere
    Posts: 86
    Senpai HB User
    Re: When the fight is over & FLIGHT has come

    Thanks. Yes, I know this is a great place. Perhaps just too many questions. I think I am just going to omit a large part of the original post.

    DONE.

    If that isn't clear enough then . . . hehe . . . well . . . Basically I just want to know what is felt when the "I've had it, I'm leaving, quitting, etc." phase is reached, and what can be done by the other person. I have a good idea, but I'd rather just hear responses.

    Last edited by Senpai; 02-26-2007 at 11:39 PM.

     
    Old 02-27-2007, 04:08 AM   #5
    goody2shuz
    Inactive
    (female)
     
    Join Date: May 2004
    Location: New York
    Posts: 5,805
    goody2shuz HB Usergoody2shuz HB User
    Re: When the fight is over & FLIGHT has come

    Senpai ~ Hi....thanks for the clarification....so in other words, if I read you right , you are asking what a BP person is feeling when they want to run away from a relationship and what the other person (who is not BP) can do, if anything, to prevent them from getting to that feeling of wanting to run away or get out of the relationship. Great question

    I am hoping that there will be at least a few here who can help you out with this.

    I can only share with you that my daughter tends to "run away" from many situations whenever there is great conflict rather than staying and trying to work things out. She has the feeling that if she were to "start over" somewhere else then things might turn out better. This happens particularly when she is faced with great emotional turmoil. I have a feeling that she is going through this right about now when she is wanting to graduate a year earlier than she is suppose to thinking that things will be better in the college scene. I would imagine that when a relationship is filled with such turmoil she thinks similarly. I know this is happening with one of her best girlfriends now since she came home and told me that they are taking a break from their friendship (seems the boyfriend is interfering in their friendship).

    I too would be interested from a BPers point of view what exactly they are experiencing when this happens and how I might help (what I could say or do to make things easier/better). It may help me to better understand so that I can help her through it. I would imagine that you are looking for the same.

    While reading through many posts here, I see it is a big thing that happens.....running away or giving up on a relationship so suddenly....at least I hear it from the non BPers and then again there are alot of BPers that say and feel that they are undeserving of another person's love. Could it be that they feel remorse for things they have done or said????

    I am sure that we will get some answers from the wonderful people here on this forum.

    ~ Goody

     
    Old 02-27-2007, 12:56 PM   #6
    suddenlyhere
    Senior Member
    (female)
     
    suddenlyhere's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jan 2007
    Location: SJF
    Posts: 196
    suddenlyhere HB User
    Re: When the fight is over & FLIGHT has come

    Hi Everyone,

    I am very interested to hear what people think about this topic. I cant offer any insight in this area myself, but I would love to hear what others think.

     
    Old 02-27-2007, 03:34 PM   #7
    Senpai
    Inactive
    (male)
     
    Join Date: Jan 2005
    Location: Here,there,everywhere
    Posts: 86
    Senpai HB User
    Re: When the fight is over & FLIGHT has come

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by goody2shuz View Post
    While reading through many posts here, I see it is a big thing that happens.....running away or giving up on a relationship so suddenly....at least I hear it from the non BPers and then again there are alot of BPers that say and feel that they are undeserving of another person's love. Could it be that they feel remorse for things they have done or said????
    PRECISELY. I am aware that retreat is an option when there is any sort of conflict, and we ALL do this. I know that many with BP regret some actions that they have done, or that they can recall, and fear what cannot be recalled or controlled. Understandable. I would feel much the same. And YES, remorse IS part of it, and a loathing for what they must repeatedly go through. One reason I hear many wanting to be "alone", when in fact they don't want to be at all. They want people "nearbye" just not in their space, or to the point where they get "too close". Such "closeness" is valued and sought by most people, but at some point for the person with BP it becomes too much. They want to trust and to confide, and then when this is done, I have found a quick retreat occurs then at some point.

    But see, I am NOT them. I could articulate a million words to describe what I sense, or what my empathy allows me to feel. But then I am not them. This cannot be forgotten. Were I them, I probably would do much the same. In fact, depending on the person's own personality (and those with BP ARE individuals) one may be so kindhearted as to just want to run to spare anyone the "price" of being close, and spare them the looks of shock or disappointment when they do something surprising and maybe out of anger, and seem to be misunderstood.

    Fight or flight is common to us all. These are aspects of the control we have. The point in between these two is nebulous and perhaps to some fightening -- IF there is little feeling of stability and a rollercoaster of emotions.

    What I hope to do, is not to prevent anything -- since I don't believe I can. That is something done together, if at all. But I want to help them understand what is leading them to such a decision, to be able to face it without the crippling fear or hurt (and I have seen the tears shed in private) sending them in a cycle that is never ending. I want their pain to end, as much as possible, and to prevent future scars from haunting them. I have seen the eyes of a kind heart. I have seen the anger. I have seen the tears. I have felt the fear that made them run from the most trusted person, only to inquire later in secret "how they were", and feel frustration over how to "go back" to before that time.

    I want to help. With time comes experience, usually. I don't want those I know with BP to have to look back and see mistakes that hinder their freedom in the present. I know proper medication is key, and I have seen tramatic events in the past of EVERY SINGLE person with BP I have ever known. So coming to terms with that is too part of it all. But there is more. More we who don't have to deal with BP need to know. Not just WHAT to do, but individual stories of how it felt and why. Somewhere in there real empathy can be reached, however much it may be feared by the person with BP. There are good "rules of thumb" for better relationships between people, but in the end there is no cookbook recipe, or equation one can just "plug in" to "fix" things. As chaotic as life can be, and perhaps BP as well, to know another's pain in your OWN heart will always be a requirement of our experience here. A valuable lesson. Avoiding that by any means only serves to distance us all. I never want a method for dealing with someone who struggles with BPD. I want to know them. Sigh.

    Thank you goody2shuz. I know you feel the same.

     
    Old 02-27-2007, 04:17 PM   #8
    leasarenya
    Member
    (female)
     
    leasarenya's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Dec 2006
    Location: Nashville, TN
    Posts: 81
    leasarenya HB User
    Re: When the fight is over & FLIGHT has come

    I can tell you from many years of experience what happens with me. I am 37 and first married at 17. I am BP and have been married 4 times. For the most part these men have loved me and tried to take care of me and I left them any way. I left them broken hearted, broken and they each begged me back for a long time. When I am well, I am a good person (took many years to be able to like myself even a little), but when I get sick, I get terrible and treat everyone badly (this is when I hate myself all over again). The guilt takes control of me and I feel I must escape the pain and run away. I have an overwhelming need to start over after these incidences to run from the pain. I wanted to get away from it (everything from the guilt, pain, misunderstanding, just everthing). You will never know the pain of hurting the ones you love this much and knowing you will do it again without being able to control it. Sometimes I really want to get away from them because I know that I will spare them more pain later if I leave. I have even cut ties with alot of friends and family because of these problems. I just cannot take looking into the eyes of the people I hurt over and over again. Hope this helps and I hope no one knows this pain and agony. May God bless you.

     
    Old 02-27-2007, 05:14 PM   #9
    sixela
    Member
    (female)
     
    sixela's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Oct 2006
    Posts: 99
    sixela HB User
    Re: When the fight is over & FLIGHT has come

    Senpai,
    I think you are asking an excellent question here and there is a lot to say. I have been married about five years and we were together three before that. But my BP diagnosis is recent so I am now relating it to relationship issues that we've had.

    In a nut shell, I feel heiniously about who I am sometimes and for my past behavior. There is nothing I hate more than losing control of my emotions, saying ugly things, lying, being manipulative, etc. I know that my hubby is afraid to set me off most days and that sucks. Fights and ugly words feel permanent to me, even though another side of me says that love can conquer it all.

    Maybe people run because it seems easier to wipe the slate clean and freer then sticking it out and facing yourself as your partner reflects back the you you don't like much. That is the core issue to me. I never felt like I had a problem til I got married! LOL Now I look back at all my failed previous relationships and get it. I think interpersonally, when all your emotional junk surfaces there is no real escape and man, is that suffocating and hopeless feeling at times. I have vowed to work work work. No matter what it takes. That is the choice I can live with. If love is there it is worth fighting for, getting couseling, all that. I'll do whatever it takes.

    I know people on this board have had differing circumstances, maybe more extreme behaviors in relationships with BP's and I understand. A close friend of mine divorced a violent and abusive BP spouse.

    This is just my own perspective.

    Six

     
    Old 02-27-2007, 08:16 PM   #10
    Senpai
    Inactive
    (male)
     
    Join Date: Jan 2005
    Location: Here,there,everywhere
    Posts: 86
    Senpai HB User
    Re: When the fight is over & FLIGHT has come

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by leasarenya View Post
    You will never know the pain of hurting the ones you love this much and knowing you will do it again without being able to control it. Sometimes I really want to get away from them because I know that I will spare them more pain later if I leave. I have even cut ties with alot of friends and family because of these problems. I just cannot take looking into the eyes of the people I hurt over and over again. Hope this helps and I hope no one knows this pain and agony. May God bless you.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sixela View Post
    Fights and ugly words feel permanent to me, even though another side of me says that love can conquer it all.
    Thank you both for your responses. I look at these words and THIS is what I have felt was going on. But for some, if they only look at the surface of things, hear only the words said in anger, designed to push them away, to end something, too much is lost. Action begets a reaction, instead of understanding.

    I have gotten back into spending more time on the water lately. Very calming. In a boat there is really one rule that is to be observed when encountering another vessel on the waves -- the more maneuverable craft ALWAYS gives way to the less maneuverable. You don't insist that the larger boat make way, because that is futile and will end in disaster. When I think of how BPD was dealt with in the past I shudder. I only know that when I look into the eyes and see the soul of the person the anger that I am seeing at present isn't her or him. It's hard at times when you are addressed directly, and seemingly with both purpose and intention. But there it is if you blink and forget the words, the soul that is underneath and is or will be hurt. It takes the same kind of flexibility when on the changing waves that life bring, however trite that analogy is. Medication and therapy is a must it seems or the person is at risk of a ever worsening problem. But once medication is begun, this is no permanent or complete fix by any means. That second part, and the responsibility for it rests with the understanding we are meant to have towards others, and must learn to have even in the more extreme cases where a person deals with BPD.

    A violent person or exceptionally abusive one IS a different situation, and is sometimes that much more sad. But pity will do no good. They need that much more qualified help and support from medications first.

    I know these boards are filled with paragraphs like these. Sentences here and there, but I wanted a thread that focused on it clearly. Because no matter the din of conflict that rings on this board due to mania or depression, the overriding truth is the person with BPD doesn't wish for it, doesn't want it, and regrets it deeply at some point. For the damage & loss we might feel at such endings, or conflicts, the person with BPD seems to feel it that much more. Feelings, and too much of the sad or frustrated kind are the problem.

    I wonder, since there is no easy answer, is giving "space" the one standard in all such situations? At least enough of it where questions don't abound and the "focus" isn't on the person with BPD. Seems a double edged sword. Too much space given, before it is requested could lead to the person feeling abandoned. A kind of "avoid the problem and maybe it will go away" approach. However untrue there is the risk it will be seen this way. I guess being near enough, but not too close is the rule of thumb when in a major cycle of either kind. Close enough to be called upon at the very least, and close enough to remind the person you are still there. But "obligations" in a more serious relationship seem a powder keg.

     
    Old 02-28-2007, 02:04 PM   #11
    sixela
    Member
    (female)
     
    sixela's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Oct 2006
    Posts: 99
    sixela HB User
    Re: When the fight is over & FLIGHT has come

    I believe space is the answer. Well, at least it seems to work for us. When I feel suffocated, I am going to lash out more and in an uglier way. My husband used to get clingy whenever I would be angry (guess he was always trying to fix it or fix me) and this exponentially made that manic energy worse. Now I say in no uncertain terms "I need space" and basically, don't talk to me. Once I can try to calm myself down then I don't need to verbally attack. That has worked for me.

    I hope you find the answers you are seeking...

     
    Old 02-28-2007, 08:10 PM   #12
    goody2shuz
    Inactive
    (female)
     
    Join Date: May 2004
    Location: New York
    Posts: 5,805
    goody2shuz HB Usergoody2shuz HB User
    Re: When the fight is over & FLIGHT has come

    Yes...Sixela, yes, space IS the answer. My daughter and I have found that when we give her space that she will usually ride the frustration or anger out. That way she doesn't feel cornered or trapped and will emerge when she is in a better place.

    When we care about somebody, our natural reaction is to want to fix things or find out what is wrong. Often, as I have experienced with my daughter, BPer doesn't even know what is wrong and feels already confused as to why they are feeling the way that they do. To have somebody try to help them when in such a state only increases the emotion that they are experiencing which only ends up fueling the fire. Space, and taking a step back will allow the BPer time to realize that something has triggered this reaction and with the space they are better able to diffuse it and allow it to simmer down. At least that is what I have seen with my daughter.

    Great, thread....there is alot to be learned by us all.

    ~ Goody

     
    Old 02-28-2007, 08:48 PM   #13
    emeraldeyes114
    Inactive
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jun 2005
    Location: Dover Tennessee
    Posts: 605
    emeraldeyes114 HB User
    Re: When the fight is over & FLIGHT has come

    I have read the others posts and have sat for a bit doing the thinking thing trying to analyze past and current relationships. I agree space is needed. I know I need that time alone when I can let go and not worry about who sees or hears anything. My husband tends to be clingy and if I say go away right now. Well he tends to get that much closer. Or he refuses to see anything that might actually be more of a problem then what either of us thinks. I know for me when I am manic I tend to be ok in a relationship. I tend to be more romantic, witty, charming (if it is possible for me), and more outgoing. It is when the depression hits that I tend to overanalyze words or actions. I read into them things that might not really be there. THen it becomes well they are going to leave anyway so might as well do it first. And I think that if I go I am sparing them the day in day out turns and twists with this emotional rollarcoaster. Even if they are ready to stand firm and be there no matter what. I know in the end someone can only take and stand so much. SO I am not really sure that I have added anything to this thread or not.

    Emerald

     
    Old 02-28-2007, 09:16 PM   #14
    Bambam2
    Newbie
    (female)
     
    Bambam2's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Feb 2007
    Location: Louisville, CO
    Posts: 5
    Bambam2 HB User
    Re: When the fight is over & FLIGHT has come

    I have enjoyed this dialogue. This is my first time on this site and my first time ever on a message board. My husband was recently diagnosed with bi-polar disorder (but will not come to terms with it yet) and we are in the middle of a fight and flight episode. Fortunately, we have two residences on opposite ends of the country which automatically creates the "space" when flight happens. I'm never sure when these episodes of flight happen, if it will be the last time. I'm starting to understand by reading this thread that this is a common behavior of being BP. I find that he is unable to get angry and keep his love and the relationship intact. Whereas, I can be very angry and frustrated at him but realize it's just anger and has nothing to do with loving him or wanting our relationship to end. For him, it seems the two cannot co-exist together. It's almost like a child that has a temper tantrum and says "if you don't give into what I want", I won't love you anymore. I do believe this is all mixed in with his feelings of unworthiness as a result of knowing he has acted out inappropriately and caused hurt as well as just plain confusion that comes with BP. I have not heard from him for almost 3 weeks now (the longest flight episode yet). He will not respond to any e-mail, etc. I wonder if this is the last time? I miss and love him and will be there for him if and when he is ready to surface. In the meantime, I'll be skiing the slopes.

    Bam Bam

     
    Old 02-28-2007, 09:35 PM   #15
    goody2shuz
    Inactive
    (female)
     
    Join Date: May 2004
    Location: New York
    Posts: 5,805
    goody2shuz HB Usergoody2shuz HB User
    Re: When the fight is over & FLIGHT has come

    Hi, welcome BamBam I think that you will learn quite a bit here from many wonderful posters most who have BP and others who love them like you and me.

    I can't even imagine having to live in such a way as you do wondering when your husband is going to resurface. For me, just having my daughter run away for one night was painful enough!!

    Anyway....take a look through other threads here...there are alot of other spouses reaching out to one another...4support is one of them and I am sure that you will find many who are walking in your two shoes!!!

    Emerald...hi, sweetie It's great to see you back here again. I just noticed that you are back and wanted to tell you that EVERYTHING you say is a gift. I think that what you are experiencing during the down side is the remorse that many describe here that follows something they have said or done to the ones they love. And of course i would imagine when you are down you're self esteem is down too and you are acting upon that not feeling worthy of anything, even another person's love. If you don't feel good about yourself I guess it would easy to feel that nobody else cares and that you are undeserving of another's love. I guess the space is necessary in order to come out of it without any further remorse of not taking the love that is being offered to you at the time.

    Anyway...great to see you around, Emerald...and stick around...okay???

    ((((HUGS)))) ~ Goody

     
    Closed Thread

    Related Topics
    Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
    Lupus and blood pressure spikes when sleeping. Sunsetnan Lupus 121 07-26-2010 07:21 AM
    just when i thought i can control this!!!! deedeehurtn Bipolar Disorder 1098 05-09-2007 06:40 PM
    What is this Fight or Flight Response????? Want2feelgood Anxiety 4 03-13-2006 04:39 PM
    Fight or flight response: still hypo? pixiek Thyroid Disorders 2 05-25-2005 07:32 PM




    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Search this Thread:

    Advanced Search

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is Off
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are Off
    Pingbacks are Off
    Refbacks are Off




    Sign Up Today!

    Ask our community of thousands of members your health questions, and learn from others experiences. Join the conversation!

    I want my free account

    All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:42 PM.





    © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved.
    Do not copy or redistribute in any form!