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    Old 07-19-2007, 10:25 AM   #31
    goody2shuz
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    Re: What Should I Do???

    Hey all....Lucky the appointment is tomorrow. Tsohl thanks for all your wonderful outloud thoughts but you don't know Kait as well as I do.....any discussion with her turns into a kangeroo court....she will KNOW that I am on to her by my just bringing Adderall up.

    I spoke to a friend of a friend who has a 23 year old who is BP and had drug use as well going on when he was a Senior in High School. She is a nurse who works strongly with NAMI and heads a support group at a local hospital near where I use to live. She was of great help when Erin was being diagnosed and so I ran all of this past her.

    She also thought having a dialogue of some sort with Kait would be good to start out with but when I explained how things went when we dialogue with Kait she agreed that it wouldn't go well and that we need to make the best of this evaluation since it may be our only saving grace. And for that reason she thought that not talking to the pdoc before the evaluation would serve two purposes. It would first make Kait's psychiatric dialogue an open one where she will build up trust with a professional and IF she were ever to know that we spoke to him before his even evaluating her she will never be able to build a trusting relationship with him. Second....it will allow hubby and I to get a sense of the doctor's perception into things and to gain confidence in his ability to help Kait. IF we feel a need to alert him of what we found on the text message we can always do so....the most important thing is to get Kait the help that she needs. Also....it was my plan all along that when it comes time to medicate Kait, that I would share my concerns regarding our family history as well as Kait's abuse of alcohol & drugs. The mom that I spoke to also said that Adderall is the black beauty of the times and that kids are partying at college and also that we don't know how extensive Kait's drug use is or the underlying cause. And that the best way of getting to the crux of things is to make the best out of this evaluation as we can. She works at the hospital where the pdoc works and she said that it is a given that most pdocs will not prescribe a schedule II controlled substance to a college student where the abuse of such meds is prevalent....that he will most likely prescribe Stratterra or Concerta which do not carry the risk of abuse as Aderrall or Ritalin do.

    Another thing....hubby just informed me that when he went to our other house that he is certain that Kait and her friends went there to use it either last night or the night before. The air conditioner had been removed from a window for entry, the toilet had overflowed and the water valve turned off....he was there just before Kait's friends arrived so he is certain that they were there. She told me this morning that she was at one of our friend's daughter's houses....we happen to know that her parents are away so they were over there while they were out of town!!

    Hubby & I told Kait that we would call the police if she broke into the house again (remember we called and made a report when she had done so on one of her breaks???)....but we have no real concrete evidence.

    But we still have a way to have her take the consequences of such an action. At the beginning of the summer we told both girls that we have zero tolerance for any lying or deceit....that the very first time they do either that the penalty will be a month of no seeing friends or socializing. Hubby seems to think that we need to back that up.....we could call the police but either way Kait has to have a severe penalty. Both hubby and I agree that bringing this all up just before her evaluation won't do any good....we are going to confront her in front of her friends and let her know that we are very disappointed and that Kait will not be having friends home in the future because of this. And that there will be further consequences to be discussed that Kait was well aware of when she did this once before. That ought to get her attention an have her squirming for a while as well as her friends.

    I am worn out....thing is if we impose the infraction Kait's reaction will be to take off in her car and go off to the house that she is leasing for college. Our intentions are if she does so that we are cutting off any further funding for college and she must make it on her own.

    This just seems to be getting worse and worse.

    ~ Goody

    PS ~ Hubby just called me by phone. He thinks that we should confront Kait and her friends and tell them that we are extremely disappointed in Kait, that in the past she has utilized out second home as a party house and was given a warning. That we feel that our hospitality was taken advantage of...that each and every one of them broke into OUR home, trespassed on our property and put us in a situation where we could have had severe consequences. And that we no longer will be opening up either of our homes to them as a result...that we are sorry but feel that our hospitality was taken advantage of and next time they come this way that they will have to find a hotel because they are no longer welcome in our home. And that if anybody is found on our other home's premises in the future with or without Kait, we will prosecute them and have them arrested. We will then suggest they pack up their stuff and leave immediately. And we will tell Kait that we will discuss her consequences later. Is that a good plan???

    Last edited by goody2shuz; 07-19-2007 at 10:49 AM.

     
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    Old 07-19-2007, 10:51 AM   #32
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    Re: What Should I Do???

    As usual, sounds like you and hubbie have a good plan! Maybe we're all getting ahead of ourselves here...and making the situation worse than it is. It's just that I found an addiction board that I was reading on, for adderall addiction and it was shocking and all new to me.

    I was so lucky that our son was able to cover his BP so well while in high school and I missed out on all this drama/trauma.

    I think the thing that scares me the most about Kait is her predilection to risky behaviors.

    Well, Goody, my friend...let me know how I can help. I feel for you!

    love and hugs,
    Tsohl

     
    Old 07-19-2007, 11:35 AM   #33
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    Re: What Should I Do???

    Oh, Goody. you do have your hand so full and you have been so much help to me...I wish I had great words of wisdom for you. Kait sounds like she's been such a trial to you for soooo long.
    She reminds me a great deal of a friend of my older daughter's. Not a bad kid, but a ton of partying, underage drinking, maybe some drugging, I don't know, my daughter protected me from a lot because she didn't want me to see her friend in any bad light, but I knew on more than one occasion she hauled her friend out of a bar or club before things got ugly. (My daughter is a total non drinker, thus the perfect friend to take clubbing--she was always sober and a safe driver home)--anyway this friends was Bp and also ADHD and mixed all her drugs with alcohol and was drunk and stupid so much, totally promiscuous,--I know of more than one occasion where she was grinding up her Adderal and snorting it---& sharing it with the cockroaches (what my daughter referred to as the "friends" who would suddenly become your BFF when you had anything to snort, smoke or abuse) who hung around. She finally got kicked out her mom's home and had to go it on her own and made a total mess of her life finanacially--she'll not be able to buy a car or home for years on her own credit--but anyhow, she did get picked up for DUI, at age 19. She ignored the charges, didn't make her court date and got picked up again for a second DUI and this time she was jailed. BIG REALITY shock. She begged everyone she knew to bail her out--but it was a sentence imposed by the judge with no bail set, so she spent 18 days or something like that, in county lockup. They gave her her meds on schedule, first time in her life she'd have them on a regular basis--saw some truly messed up women and was terrified the entire time she was in there. Long story short--she moved back home with mom, who was one tough cookie with her--she knew if she stepped out of line she'd be out on her butt again--and that's what finally did it for her. She's actaully been off all meds for about a year. lives with her BF and plans to get married next year. BUT she had to learn the HARD way...she has lousy credit, she totaled 3 cars, she is still paying the fine imposed by the court...BUT she has also learned that as a BP she HAS to abide by the rules..good sleep, therapy, healthy eating habits, exercise, ect. All the stuff we are so desperately trying to teach our kids and they WON'T listen.
    I know this girl's mom well and she did all the back door talking to the therapist and pdoc and it never worked. Doesn't really work with Sara, either, she just gets so mad.
    Just a thought--can you have Kait tested for drug use? They can test using hair samples--not just blood & urine. Also, has Kait ever been hospitlized? You are going to the pdoc and he can facitlitate that--well, in our state they can, don't know about NY. I have no doubt Sara will be back in, eventually--I have no rose colored glasses at my house....Oh, goody, I just wish you the best--and you are SOOOO lucky to have your hubby on board with you. Mine just cannot handle the drama, and so doesn't. HE just wishes this kid wouls move out & leave no forwarding address. I can't really blame him, I'm getting to that point, too. Good Luck (I know how trite that sounds, but I mean it!)

    (((((((LIZ)))))))))

     
    Old 07-19-2007, 02:48 PM   #34
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    Re: What Should I Do???

    Goody, did you ever get over to that addiction board? i read that TS did , its very informative.. Anyway,just by listening to the story about breaking into your house, i am fuming and cant understand how you keep your cool...i mean i do understand, i really do, you dont want to set her off and have her leave when she has her appt. tomorrow.. But i would definitly throw those friends out.. That is showing you and your husband nothing but disrespect and than to come back into your home..wow, i would be livid..

    I understand that kait has issues happening right now..She crossed the line now tho. Do you think?

     
    Old 07-19-2007, 03:47 PM   #35
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    Re: What Should I Do???

    Jules....I don't know which thread you are talking about....I did get over to the addiction board but don't know which thread you are referring to. I KNOW how livid you would be...believe me I am sooo livid about what Kait did and these friends of hers....be prepared for my play by play description. Here goes....

    When Kait's friends arrived on Tuesday, I welcomed them and read them the riot. I told them that they were welcome in our home but to remember that it is our home and not a dorm. I told them that they were welcome to use our kitchen to cook etc but I expected them to clean up after themselves and have it in the same condition as they saw it. I also told them that there was to be no drinking, smoking or illegal activity in our home....that there was a new law in effect that parents will be fined and/or spend time in jail for their children's activity within their home or elsewhere if still living with them. And that we were not interested in that and also we had a 16 year old in the house that needed to have a good example set. And I left it at that.

    Well today we confronted them shortly after they woke up. Hubby brought up how he had been over to our other house and knew that they had spent time without our permission there....that the air conditioner was removed from the window and put back in wrong, the toilet was stopped up and wet toilet paper all over the floor and the bar to the slider was broken that allowed for entry. They didn't deny it and hubby went on to say how we had welcomed them all into our home and that they seem like pretty good kids but that when they broke into our other home without our permission it was totally taking advantage of our hospitality....that their actions could potentially put at risk everything that we have ever worked for and if any of them had ever gotten hurt or injured on our premises that we would have alot to lose. That it put us in a bad situation that if any of them got hurt and we had to notify parents we would feel terrible having to explain the circumstances. And that bottom line we would be liable for their actions. They agreed that they were wrong....hubby went on to say that because of this we no longer felt comfortable opening up our home(s) to them and that unfortunately they would not be welcome to stay with us again....that when they came to NY again they would have to get a hotel as would any other of Kait's friends since this wasn't the first time she has invited friends to stay at our homes without our permission. And that next time we would call the police and press charges.

    Kait said that it was her fault and I told her that while I agreed with her, that her friends were just as at fault when they knew how I had asked them to respect our wishes of no partying in our home and yet they went and did so....that they had the ability to know what was right from wrong and that since they had accompanied her they were at fault as well. That hopefully they would learn from this that other people's homes should be respected and that they shouldn't put their parents or any other parents in the position that they had put us in. Hubby went on to yell at Kait about how tired we were of her spitting on us after all that we do for her and that she continually disrespected us and put herself in situations that are going to ruin her entire future. And that he wasn't interested in putting up $100k for her to throw it all down the drain which was what she would be doing if she continued on this road. And that he was so afraid that she would end up like his brothers if she didn't start doing something about it. I calmly explained to Kait's friends how worried we were about her....that we hoped that her friends would keep an eye out for her because she didn't seem to be doing that for herself. And that we realized that college has alot of paryting and that they all think that they are invincible just like we all think when we are teens. And that unfortunately there will be some who will not make it to a college graduation whether it be due to alcohol poisoning or an OD or perhaps some other tragedy related to poor judgement. And that I hoped that it didn't happen to any of them or Kait. They each apologized and gathered their belongings and as they left I told them to drive safely.


    after they left, Kait apologized but quickly went into her usual rant...of how everybody does this blah, blah, blah. I told her that I was no longer interested in her excuses that it was all the same and would never change until she changed it by looking at where the source of the problem was. She went on to say how we always threaten her with funding her college, hubby explained that it was our right to do so and basically the only thing we had to hold over her...she went on to say how she was doing what she needed to do getting good grades and working a good job. And we told her that was all good and that we always celebrated those accomplishments with her but that didn't dismiss the poor choices that she was making....that all the good that she has done could all be ruined by poor choices on her part that had consequences. She said that nothing was going to happen and that she had everything going for her and I explained to her that it could change at any minute if she continued to go on scavenger hunts where she was doing illegal things that could land her in jail and with a record that wouldn't even get her a job at McDonalds. She said that wouldn't happen and I said that there are no guarantees....that she was just hoping she wouldn't get caught. And hubby went on to tell her that it could all come crashing down in an instant by one of the choices she makes and she needed to realize that. And I interjected that it wasn't all about grades or jobs but good moral character. That one's character was most important when it came to one's future and that she needed to realize that.

    Meanwhile....I had put a call into the pdoc's office before talking to my friend's friend this morning....he was off for the day and they were going to get the Nurse Practitioner in touch with me. She called while I was in Blockbuster video on my cell phone. It wasn't the best timing but I explained that Kait was coming in for an evaluation the following day....that since she was 14 years old we have had concerns about and how her younger sister was diagnosed with BP/ADD and we had growing concerns about what was going on with Kait. That we tried to get her in for an evaluation before going off to college but she refused to admit there was a problem. And how she went off to college and towards the end told me that something wasn't right and that she wanted to be evaluated....that she might have ADD.

    I explained to theNurse Practitioner that I had come across something accidentally on her cell phone text message thinking it was her sister's who I check up on once in a while and that Kait had friends coming to visit from college and the last text was asking one of them to not forget the Adderall. And that I had my concerns about the evaluation.... that although I KNOW that something is going on with Kait I felt that they should know about my findings. I expressed my concerns about whether I was doing the right thing and whether or not the pdoc should even know this information because I didn't want any bias on his evaluation of Kait.....she reassured me that I had done the right thing and that even though they usually avoid prescribing controlled substances that it was good to know this information and that it wouldn't bias the pdoc in anyway. I told her that I so wanted the pdoc to help us identify exactly what was going on with Kait and was confident that he would. She assured me that he would do that and that she would speak to the pdoc about this before Kait was seen tomorrow. I think that things went well and that we are now pretty much prepared for our meeting with the pdoc tomorrow, that is if I get some good sleep tonight.

    Liz...thanks for sharing your daughter's friend's story....I may pick a good time and share it with Kait too.

    Tsohl....I don't think that Kait is exactly addicted yet, but I do know that we do have a problem and so want to get to the root of it. I am hoping that this pdoc can get the ball rolling for us....I think that we need to make this part of Kait's plan to return to college. But I really need for her to come to the realization that there is a problem and that it is getting out of hand. I am hoping that the pdoc's take on things will allow her to see that.

    Well that's the update in Goodyland...I may need to have a few of you move in with me!!

    Kait is not going to see her friends for a month...her first reaction to that is "good then I will just move into my house at college since it is available on August 1st." I told her that if she did such a thing consider herself on her own and don't expect any rent or tuition payments...that if she wanted to be out on her own she would be paying her own way. I reminded her of our talk at the beginning of the summer and the penalties for lying or deceit and that she could either take that or have us press charges for her breaking into our house. That seemed to shut her up fairly quickly.

    Thanks for keeping up with our saga...oh somebody asked if this was the same pdoc as Kait saw before going off to college. No it isn't....we couldn't get an appointment with him and took the first one we could get. I feel much more comfortable with going to the pdoc who sees Erin since he knows the family history and us....I don't want to start all over with somebody else...why do that???

    ~ Goody

    Last edited by goody2shuz; 07-19-2007 at 04:09 PM.

     
    Old 07-19-2007, 04:49 PM   #36
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    Re: What Should I Do???

    Goody, I love it, it all sounds so good...you and your husband have to always be on the same page..and you are.!! She probably is still in shock..but could she possibly think she could get away with that????

    I want to go back and re-read the thread on the addiction board..than i will come back here...to let you know. Im sure kait is not addicted..but i would hate to see her go there. My son started out like that and than became addicted to opiates. he does have a very addictive personalitty..i have been saying that since hes been a little boy...But, look what he had to do to get past the addiction? the re-hab, he left college,he lost alot of respect, he left 2 jobs and lost his drug buddies thats a good thing tho..anyway, he has been thru alot. and still going thru alot everyday..but without the drugs.

     
    Old 07-19-2007, 04:52 PM   #37
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    Re: What Should I Do???

    Ok goody, go back on the addiction board..it is not too new of a thread and its titled..my ritalin addiction, my own personal hell...something like that...look and you shall find...let me know!

     
    Old 07-19-2007, 06:16 PM   #38
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    Re: What Should I Do???

    Jules ~ Thanks for the info. I started to read it and was shocked....I would really like to read that to Kait....I will of course have to wait for the right time.

    I just got off the phone from talking with my mom....and am disturbed about something. I have been trying to get in touch with my brother leaving at least two messages. Then life has gotten busy in Goodyland and I just haven't had the time to pick up the phone. Anyway....my mom has been experiencing the same type of reactions as I have...my SIL rarely converses like she use to and hands the phone right over to my brother...he is very stoic and doesn't give too much to the conversation....I talk about everyday stuff and try to catch up on how the kids and SIL are and then lead into checking in on how he is doing as well. It's been like pulling teeth to get any info but what I am able to get sounds good....he's eating, going out doing things with the family, minimal pain and no need for oxygen. Today my mom called and asked to talk to SIL...my brother said she was out...in the background my mom hears SIL asking to talk to mom. They converse and SIL discloses as if she already knew that my brother is able to walk in and out of house to the car and back and also for short periods of time!! NOBODY has told us about this....with all that we have been through we weren't even told about this and my mom even repeated what she heard to check if she had heard right. My mom told SIL that this is great news and is our MIRACLE and my SIL quickly corrected her saying it was not a miracle but a gift!! WHATEVER.....still it is something that I feel his family should have been informed of...we were there through the worst of it and why can't we share in the best???? I am somewhat shocked and really don't understand this.

    Oh well....just another crazy event happening in Goodyland!!

    ~ Goody not quite in the loop

     
    Old 07-19-2007, 06:41 PM   #39
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    Re: What Should I Do???

    Hi guys ~

    Just to clarify something -- the reading I was doing about adderall addiction that I found so shocking was not on the board. It was just something I ran across randomly, elsewhere. I'll have to look for the post you mentioned.

    Wow, Goody. I don't know if I would have had the nerve to confront all the kids and basically kick them all out. Good for you. How did they react? Were they in shock? Was this all handled calmly or was it a heated exchange??

    I think you have handled things magnificently. Hopefully Kait is just young and immature and she will grow out of these poor choices--but I'm not altogether sure common sense is something one learns. Even in my son's most drug-crazed , manic period, he was still thinking things through and not actually taking risks. He'd calculated how much he could take "safely" without running the risk of ODing, etc. He's always had common sense and been mature for his age.

    Well, how did Erin react to you throwing the friends out and telling them they were not welcome to ever return? This must have been rather eye-opening for her.

    Hang in there, Goody. You wear the crown for being Head of the Drama Queens!!

     
    Old 07-19-2007, 07:04 PM   #40
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    Re: What Should I Do???

    Ts, sorry i read it wrong, i thought you were on the addiction board on healthboards..thats where i was telling goody to go to..i just re-read your post...Sorry.

     
    Old 07-19-2007, 07:20 PM   #41
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    Re: What Should I Do???

    Goody,

    We just walked in and I see there is a lot to read here, but it sounds like you have alot to deal with again. Good luck tomorrow and I'll post more once I read everything.

    Love,

    Hope

     
    Old 07-19-2007, 08:07 PM   #42
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    Re: What Should I Do???

    Hi Goody,

    Wow, a lot going on!

    You are so right in that we as parents are now liable for any activity that minors commit within our homes. Not just liable but we face JAIL time for THEIR illegal activities. If you ask me the law and police have gone overboard but I'm not going to fight city hall. It is what it is and these kids needs to respect that. How much we have all sacrificed for all that we have and are able to provide for our children. They are so blessed that we are providing for their future, they need to realize that. There is no leeway here, they have to put little halos on their heads and do the right thing.

    Take Care,



    Luckygem

     
    Old 07-19-2007, 08:25 PM   #43
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    Re: What Should I Do???

    Thanks Hope for popping in.

    Well I have more news....my best friend and I spoke tonight. She has known Kait since she was born and has a son the same age who also just finished his first year of college. We were talking and she told me that she had something to tell me which was very difficult. She told me that her son has disclosed to her a few times that Kait has a drug problem. She said that he didn't give too many specifics. I told her that we knew that Kait used weed but she indicated that she has been using much more than weed and for sometime now....that just a few nights ago her son and Kait were IMing and he disclosed that he is worried about her and her use of drugs. Now my best friend knows about the adderall and her son has ADHD and is on Adderall so perhaps Kait was bouncing all of this off of him. I told my best friend that I have known Kait has had a problem since the age of 14 but didn't think it went beyond experimentation. My friend seems to think it is much more severe than that and that I should know. She also mentioned that her son told her that he knew Kait had a problem last time they visited which was two summers ago when she turned 16.

    I told her that I am prepared for anything....that we are hopefully going to get down to the bottom of all of this one way or another. The pdoc will be informed of our concerns regarding the Adderall tomorrow. I am tempted to do a drug test on Kait and get a script from the pdoc to have it run...what do you think of that?? From what I recall with Erin, the pdoc only gave us scripts to have a drug test done....having a urine sample at the ready will help get it done.

    Well that's the scoop.

    It's time to try to make up for last night's lost sleep.

    ~ Goody

     
    Old 07-19-2007, 08:43 PM   #44
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    Re: What Should I Do???

    Oh Goody,
    What a nightmare for you! My heart goes out to you! The age of your daughter is such a difficult age to deal with.The age were theyve been on there own a little so there too old to treat like a teenager but there too young to make good adult choices.
    I sincerely pray for you as you go thru all of this, remember to stay focused and strong and consistent in all of this and i hope the pdoc will be able to get somewhere with her. I will be rooting for you as you have been for me. Hows erin doing? what does she think of all of this? Take care and keep us posted! Goody, you have alot of friends here who really care about you remember that! Love Ya Tee Sorry, for jumping around like that, im in one of my unfocused hiper moods HA!

     
    Old 07-19-2007, 08:43 PM   #45
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    Re: What Should I Do???

    Well, how can you go to sleep after receiving that kind of news??

    Your friend's son's information may be more anecdotal than factual, so I guess I wouldn't be too devastated quite yet. You don't want to be in denial, but you don't want to jump to conclusions either.

    I was totally bamboozled by my son's drug use. I truthfully had no idea...and then even when I knew he was smoking weed I didn't realize what else he was doing, even though I imagine there were clues. He wasn't living with us at this point and I didn't see him that often, so I suppose I can rationalize not knowing...but I wish I had known sooner when I could have helped him when there would have been fewer resultant damages.

    What time is your appointment?? I think I'd just wait for now and see what happens at the pdoc's office.

    love and really big hugs to my friend,

    Tsohl

     
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