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  • IMRT and Blood Counts

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    Old 03-21-2020, 04:11 PM   #1
    guitarhillbilly
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    IMRT and Blood Counts

    Covid-19 is Not good news for folks in the middle of their IMRT Treatment for PCa. IMRT does have an effect on white blood cell count and Plasma count.
    This makes us more susceptible to infections due to Lower WBC.
    Corona Virus came at a bad time for many folks presently in cancer treatment.Folks doing Chemo and Radiation simultaneously are getting a double whammy.
    Its never a good time for the virus anyway with no cancer treatment.

    The Cancer Center where I get treatment started on Friday [yesterday] screening everyone who comes thru the front door. Nurses with gloves and Face Mask are scanning the forehead for fever and asking about coughs or shortness of breath.

    A Prolonged interruption in IMRT would be bad news.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6291062/

    P.S. Praying more DAILY / HOURLY than I have in many years.

     
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    Old 03-21-2020, 08:41 PM   #2
    Eonore
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    Re: IMRT and Blood Counts

    There is plenty of worry to go around. I worry about any of us with compromised immune systems, and I worry about our health care workers who lack the basic protective equipment they need. Personally, I have been worried sick about this pandemic. My whole life, until I got cancer, I have enjoyed robust good health. Even after my cancer diagnosis, I remained optimistic about my long term prospects. This Coronavirus, however, has me buffaloed.

    Eric

     
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    Old 03-22-2020, 04:56 AM   #3
    Insanus
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    Re: IMRT and Blood Counts

    This worrisome because even with the best social distancing you have to be checked by people who are in direct contact with a lot of people and you have such a large number of treatments. Are there many people be reported as having the virus in your area.?

     
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    Old 03-22-2020, 05:39 AM   #4
    IADT3since2000
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    Re: IMRT and Blood Counts

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by guitarhillbilly View Post
    ...

    The Cancer Center where I get treatment started on Friday [yesterday] screening everyone who comes thru the front door. Nurses with gloves and Face Mask are scanning the forP.S. Praying more DAILY / HOURLY than I have in many years.
    I'll add my prayers. I hope you experience peace during these trying circumstances.

    I had radiation treatment in 2013 and have had somewhat lowered white blood cell counts since then.

    However, my general health has been excellent. While others around me have gotten colds, I rarely have colds, and when I do, they are mild and over within a week. I'm thinking and hoping that an excellent diet, basically Mediterranean, is helping. I also usually am well rested, and I try to exercise and engage in daily physical activity. During the Covid-19 epidemic I'm adding a stalk of celery daily, although there is no clinical trial data that that is helpful for lung health, just lab-type studies.

    Has anyone seen anything on analysis of association of smoking and seriousness of Covid-19? There was a speculative article about smoking, air pollution and Covid-19 about a week ago, but it appeared there had been no clinical studies.

    Here's hoping we will all pull through!


    ….Jim

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    Diagnosis Dec 1999 PSA 113.6 (first ever), age 56
    Gleason 4+3=7 (J. Epstein, JHU), all cores +, most 100%; "rock hard" prostate with ECE - stage 3, PNI, PSADT determined later 3-4 months; technetium bone scan and CT scan negative; prognosis 5 years.
    Later ProstaScint scan negative except for one suspicious small area in an unlikely location. ADT Lupron as first therapy, in Dec 1999, then + Casodex in March 2000, then + Proscar and Fosamax in Sep 2000. Rejected for surgery January 2000; offered radiation but told success odds were low; switched to ADT only vice radiation in May 2000, betting on holding the fort for improved technology; PSA gradual decline to <0.01 May 2002. Commenced intermittent ADT3 (IADT3) with first vacation from Lupron & Casodex. Negative advanced scans in 2011 (NaF18 PET/CT for bone) and 2012 (Feraheme USPIO for nodes and soft tissue). With improved technology, tried TomoTherapy RT, 39 sessions, in early 2013, plus ADT 3 in support for 18 months (fourth round of IADT3), ended April 2014. Continuing with Avodart as anti-recurrence shield. Current PSA remarkably low at <0.01; apparently cured.. Supportive diet/nutrition, exercise, supportive medications during this journey, as well as switches in antiandrogen, 5-ARI, and bone drugs

     
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    Old 03-22-2020, 08:33 AM   #5
    Terry G
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    Re: IMRT and Blood Counts

    Covid 19 appears much more contagious than the regular flu and more serious for older folks and people with other illness and as a result is being taken very seriously. Keeping everything in perspective; the CDC reports this 2020 season that for the USA alone 38 million have been infected with the regular flu. The regular flu has caused more than 400,000 hospitalizations and 23,000 deaths. This year less than 40% of us got a flu shot. I hope next year we’ll have a vaccine for both and that people will take the time to get a flu shot. How many lives and hospitalizations may have been prevented if more of us got a flu shot. Stay home, stay safe.
    __________________
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    DOB 7/21/47; good health; age 69 @ Dx
    Treated 6/17 SBRT @ Cleveland Clinic by Dr. Tendulkar
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    PSA’s post.SBRT 1.1, 1.1, .9, 1.8, 2.7, 1.0, 0.3

     
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    Old 03-22-2020, 10:28 AM   #6
    Prostatefree
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    Re: IMRT and Blood Counts

    As I understand it, if you're in the elderly risk group you have a 1 in 7 chance (14%) of dying if you catch it. That's a real risk, imo.

    Compromised immune systems are the cause of the greater risk. Here's the kicker, if you're in the "consider yourself fit and healthy and not at risk" because of your age, regardless of how healthy you think you are with age comes an unavoidable compromised immune system. It's a condition of age.

    Please update if someone has better info.
    __________________
    Born 1953; family w/PCa-grandfather, 3 brothers;
    7-12-04 PSA 1.9; 7-10-06 PSA 2.0; 8-30-07 PSA 3.2; 12-1-11 PSA 5.7; 5-16-12 PSA 4.76; 12-11-12 PSA 5.2; 3-7-16 PSA 7.2;
    3-14-16 TRUS biopsy, PCa 1%-60% across 8 of 12 samples, G3+3;
    5-4-16 DaVinci RP, Path-65g, lymph nodes, seminal vesicles, capsule, margin all neg, G3+4, T vol 35%, +pT2c, No Incontinence-6mos, Erections-14 months;
    12-8-19 PSA less than 0.02, zero club 3.5 yrs

     
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    Old 03-24-2020, 11:54 AM   #7
    BlueHeron2020
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    Re: IMRT and Blood Counts

    I hope and pray all currently in IMRT make it through safely. I was scheduled for IMRT to begin soon and I opted out for now. I asked my Dr a few weeks ago if IMRT would compromise my immune system and he felt it would not since I am not on Chemotherapy and we would not be radiating bones. He did say given my current condition it would be ok to delay. After that discussion a few weeks ago I elected to proceed with Fudicials and SpaceOAR but after 4 days a severe pain I put everything on hold until I felt better. Well, as we all know corvid19 accelerated quickly and I said “stop the procedures”. I know Space OAR has a limited life and I may need to have it done again but that seems like the lesser of two evils right now. So now I just pray my cancer is slow growing and I survive this pandemic so I can resume in the fall. Good luck to all of you also.

     
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    Old 03-25-2020, 03:15 PM   #8
    IADT3since2000
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    Re: IMRT and Blood Counts

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prostatefree View Post
    As I understand it, if you're in the elderly risk group you have a 1 in 7 chance (14%) of dying if you catch it. That's a real risk, imo.

    Compromised immune systems are the cause of the greater risk. Here's the kicker, if you're in the "consider yourself fit and healthy and not at risk" because of your age, regardless of how healthy you think you are with age comes an unavoidable compromised immune system. It's a condition of age.

    Please update if someone has better info.

    Smoking: It's beginning to look like a history of smoking increases risk of death substantially. If true, then that 14% would be considerably higher for smokers and considerably lower for non-smokers.

    Jim

     
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    Old 03-26-2020, 03:41 AM   #9
    Prostatefree
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    Re: IMRT and Blood Counts

    This is the first time I've heard a weaken immune system can be a side effect of radiation treatment for PCa. In all these internal debates on radiation vs surgery this is the first I've heard of it.

    Is it the result of bias, ignorance, or it's not true?

     
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    Old 03-26-2020, 04:14 AM   #10
    guitarhillbilly
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    Re: IMRT and Blood Counts

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prostatefree View Post
    This is the first time I've heard a weaken immune system can be a side effect of radiation treatment for PCa. In all these internal debates on radiation vs surgery this is the first I've heard of it.

    Is it the result of bias, ignorance, or it's not true?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6291062/

    This article had nothing to do with surgery . It is comparing CRT vs IMRT and the effects on the Blood when using RT to treat cancer in the prostate or bladder.

     
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    Old 03-26-2020, 05:13 AM   #11
    IADT3since2000
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    Re: IMRT and Blood Counts

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prostatefree View Post
    This is the first time I've heard a weaken immune system can be a side effect of radiation treatment for PCa. In all these internal debates on radiation vs surgery this is the first I've heard of it.

    Is it the result of bias, ignorance, or it's not true?

    My impression is that it is generally true that white blood counts are somewhat lower after external beam radiation for prostate cancer. They have been lower for me for seven years now, and my doctor says this is normal.

    My resistance to colds, etc. has been excellent, and I am not sure how much a somewhat lower white blood count indicates a significantly weakened immune system. I would like to know more about this.

    ….Jim

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    Diagnosis Dec 1999 PSA 113.6 (first ever), age 56
    Gleason 4+3=7 (J. Epstein, JHU), all cores +, most 100%; "rock hard" prostate with ECE - stage 3, PNI, PSADT determined later 3-4 months; technetium bone scan and CT scan negative; prognosis 5 years.
    Later ProstaScint scan negative except for one suspicious small area in an unlikely location. ADT Lupron as first therapy, in Dec 1999, then + Casodex in March 2000, then + Proscar and Fosamax in Sep 2000. Rejected for surgery January 2000; offered radiation but told success odds were low; switched to ADT only vice radiation in May 2000, betting on holding the fort for improved technology; PSA gradual decline to <0.01 May 2002. Commenced intermittent ADT3 (IADT3) with first vacation from Lupron & Casodex. Negative advanced scans in 2011 (NaF18 PET/CT for bone) and 2012 (Feraheme USPIO for nodes and soft tissue). With improved technology, tried TomoTherapy RT, 39 sessions, in early 2013, plus ADT 3 in support for 18 months (fourth round of IADT3), ended April 2014. Continuing with Avodart as anti-recurrence shield. Current PSA remarkably low at <0.01; apparently cured. Supportive diet/nutrition, exercise, supportive medications during this journey, as well as switches in antiandrogen, 5-ARI, and bone drugs.

     
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    Old 03-26-2020, 05:47 AM   #12
    guitarhillbilly
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    Re: IMRT and Blood Counts

    https://www.mayoclinic.org/symptoms/low-white-blood-cell-count/basics/causes/sym-20050615

    Specific causes of a low white blood cell count include:

    Aplastic anemia
    Chemotherapy
    HIV/AIDS
    Hypersplenism (an abnormality of the spleen causing blood cell destruction)
    Kostmann's syndrome (a congenital disorder involving low production of neutrophils)
    Leukemia
    Lupus
    Malnutrition and vitamin deficiencies
    Myelodysplastic syndromes
    Myelokathexis (a congenital disorder involving failure of neutrophils to enter the bloodstream)
    Radiation Therapy
    Rheumatoid arthritis and other autoimmune disorders
    Tuberculosis (and other infectious diseases)

     
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    Old 03-26-2020, 12:18 PM   #13
    IADT3since2000
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    Re: IMRT and Blood Counts

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prostatefree View Post
    This is the first time I've heard a weaken immune system can be a side effect of radiation treatment for PCa....
    I just put my search skills to work, trying to find published studies about this. The bottom line is I came up with nothing. I suspect there is something out there on the significance of a somewhat reduced white blood cell count, but it may take a broader search, beyond prostate cancer, to find it.

    ..... Jim

     
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    Old 03-26-2020, 05:22 PM   #14
    HighlanderCFH
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    Re: IMRT and Blood Counts

    Here's hoping that this pandemic ends much sooner than we think. People probably don't realize how important it is for those undergoing regular treatment to not have it interrupted.

     
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    Old 03-26-2020, 10:03 PM   #15
    guitarhillbilly
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    Re: IMRT and Blood Counts

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HighlanderCFH View Post
    Here's hoping that this pandemic ends much sooner than we think. People probably don't realize how important it is for those undergoing regular treatment to not have it interrupted.
    Posting #1 :

    "A Prolonged interruption in IMRT would be bad news."

     
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