It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Carpal Tunnel Syndrome Message Board

  • Possible Cubital Tunnel Syndrome

  • Post New Thread   Closed Thread
    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Old 04-27-2007, 09:05 AM   #1
    RAINIE73
    Member
    (female)
     
    RAINIE73's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Oct 2006
    Location: MICHIGAN
    Posts: 97
    RAINIE73 HB User
    Possible Cubital Tunnel Syndrome

    Hello Everyone,

    I have a couple of questions. My internal doctor recommended me to an orthopedic surgeon when I told her about all the problems I am having with both my elbows and hands. It started about a year ago, my right elbow was always aching. My family doctor told me it was probally arthritis (I have DJD in several of my joints and have MRI's on them), so my doctor figured that was what it was and prescribed me Voltaren. Since taking the Voltaren, the aching has subsided, but about a month ago, I noticed everytime I bend my elbows (I am feeling it in both elbows) or lean it on a table top or arm rest, my fingers go numb. I did a web search and found info relating to Cubital Tunnel/ Ulnar Nerve. The internist dr said that was definately what it was. I also read that you can start to feel a loss of strength or weakness in your hands and at a more advanced stage of it. After I had read that, it had me kind of worried as I have lost about half of my strength in both of my hands, which I had told my doctors that before and they basically did not address it or acted like it was no big deal. To me it is a big deal, I now have to rely on others to open jars and bottles or carrying some things. I used to consider myself a very strong woman and now I feel weak, which I had thought it was just my fibro I was recently diagnosed with.

    -My Question is at what stage do they decide before the do surgery? I made an appointment with the orthopedic surgeon and that is on May 3rd. Also, what kind of tests and treatment have they put any of you through before doing surgery. I am just trying to prepare myself, if surgery is what they feel would be the best option.

    I have definately been watching how I use my arms as to help prevent the numbness and pins and needles. There is usually not much pain when I take the Voltaren 2 x daily. I am taking cymbalta also and it says you should use caution while taking the 2 together, so I had stopped for about a week with the Voltaren, but couldn't handle the aching and soreness of my elbow and other joints. I also take 3-5 darvocets daily for back pain (4 herniated disks), so I am wondering would they give me something a little stronger for pain, if I do have surgery.

    I have so many health problems that have all of a sudden started poping up in the past 2 years. It is getting so annoying! But I feel that I deal with it pretty good though!

    Best of luck to everyone else and have a great day!

    Rain~ (Lorraine)

     
    Sponsors Lightbulb
       
    Old 04-30-2007, 09:28 AM   #2
    RAINIE73
    Member
    (female)
     
    RAINIE73's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Oct 2006
    Location: MICHIGAN
    Posts: 97
    RAINIE73 HB User
    Re: Possible Cubital Tunnel Syndrom

    I have just started having another symptom this weekend. The back of my upper arm, right above my elbow has a burning and tingly sensation. Has anyone else ever had this? Does this mean it is getting worse?

    Also, I have noticed dry patches right at the webbing in between the pinky and ring fingers. I started getting this about a year 1 1/2 ago. I just read that, that is a symptom of nerve irriation. Has anyone else had this either?

    Thanks Rain

    Last edited by RAINIE73; 04-30-2007 at 12:59 PM. Reason: adding

     
    Old 05-02-2007, 04:57 PM   #3
    signing
    Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: May 2005
    Posts: 84
    signing HB User
    Re: Possible Cubital Tunnel Syndrome

    Hi!

    I am posting in the "neuropathy" board because this is what my initial diagnosis was, but maybe I should be in here as well?

    Mine started on Easter Sunday of all days, experienced sudden pain in my left elbow that travelled down to my pinky finger and made it numb. My neck was also killing me. Pain at around 6-7 on a scale from 1-10 so I got into the doctor right away the next morning. He said "neuropathy" and gave me some meds and said if it's not better in a week call back and we'd start testing. Well, my EMG was yesterday and she said that it was probably something like cubital tunnel syndrome, which is a neuropathy of the ulnar nerve in the arm.

    I am having a lot of pain and discomfort with this but I am unsure what my next step will be. I have no idea what is going to happen nor how to answer your questions (i.e., surgery). Let's keep one another updated, shall we? I hope to hear from my doctor tomorrow and I assume he'll either send me for an MRI (I am having neck pain also which the doctor who did my EMG said that it is not a normal symptom of cubital tunnel) or straight to a neuro.

    What I would tell you is to keep the affected elbow straight as much as possible. Bending the elbow stretches the nerve and causes more symptoms with me, so it can't hurt. I have trained myself to keep it straight as I sleep and awake with numbness but with much less pain.


    Monica

     
    Old 05-02-2007, 06:45 PM   #4
    RAINIE73
    Member
    (female)
     
    RAINIE73's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Oct 2006
    Location: MICHIGAN
    Posts: 97
    RAINIE73 HB User
    Re: Possible Cubital Tunnel Syndrome

    Hi,

    I am sorry that you are having the same pains I am having! They are pretty annoying! I am pretty anxious to see what the doctor says. I have an appointment tomorrow at noon with an orthopedic specialist that my internal doctor recommended.

    I have been doing alot of thinking lately and think it might be from a possible fall I had about 3 years ago. I fell down the stairs at my parents house and as I was falling, I caught onto hand rail to try and catch myself. I think I may have damaged my right elbow and left shoulder, because I remember feeling like I was being jerked apart. I was in quit abit of pain for awhile after that, especially my back and rib cage. I think for about 3-4 months it hurt to laugh, cough or sneeze. My upper back to this day still bothers me on top of all the lower back problems I have been having. Last year, when my elbow really started bothering me, I had my mom look at it to see if it looked swollen at all. She said it did and looked deformed a little, compared to the other arm. I had never noticed it before. My doctor at that time took xrays and said he didn't see anything. He also sent me for a MRI, but on my lower back and my left shoulder. My shoulder showed degenerative joint disease and my lower back showed an increase in the degeneration I have had there for quit awhile. I also had a ton of xrays the day of the fall. I had passed out after that, and my family insisted I go the the ER.

    Well besides all of that, on Monday, after I was at work for just 2 hours I couldn't stand the aching anymore, so I went to the drug store and bought an elbow brace and a wrist brace. The aching seems to subside when I am wearing them. But I know the problem is still there. My fingers also go numb much quicker when I bend my elbow. I am afraid to see what the doctor thinks. I wish I knew what other people experiences are. Like how long do they make you wear braces or cortizone shots or even physical therapy. I really do not want physical therapy as I have been through it many of times for my back. Half the time it feels like its a waste of time. It seems like it helps some of the pain, then stops helping and I am still having some pain. But thats with my back and each doctor I have seen, says the same thing. That I will eventually need surgery.

    I do try to keep my elbow as straight as possible, but it is so hard!!! I am so busy at work and I forget about it, until I bend and feel it again. The brace seems to be helping me a little, but I think I will need a better brace.

    Has your neuro doctor recommended anything else for you? or are you thinking of finding a different doctor? I am wondering if I should perhaps see a neuro? One of my mom"s cousins is a neurologist and I always thought he was such a nice guy. I am thinking that if I do not get anywhere with the orthopedic doctor tomorrow, I may make an appointment with my mom's cousin.

    Well I wish you best of luck with your next appointment and will post back tomorrow evening to let you know how the appointment went!

    Thanks so much~ Rain (Lorraine)

     
    Old 05-03-2007, 11:02 AM   #5
    RAINIE73
    Member
    (female)
     
    RAINIE73's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Oct 2006
    Location: MICHIGAN
    Posts: 97
    RAINIE73 HB User
    Re: Possible Cubital Tunnel Syndrome

    Hi Monica,

    Just got back from my appointment. I am still in a bit of shock, not knowing whats going to happen. He said it is in a more advanced stage and I have alot of muslce wasting in my right forearm (thats where it looks abit deformed) and some muscle wasting in both hands. His recommendation is to go straight to surgery. Of course he is sending me for some testing. Tomorrow, I am scheduled for an EMG and then I have a follow up appointment with him next week for the results. I am not too worried about surgery, just about being off work for a few weeks and the whole recovery process. I kind of seen all of this coming. I have been doing some research on it. As soon as my boss gets back from lunch, I am going to go tell him about it. Fun! He's nice most of the time! Lol! So he shouldn't give me a hard time!
    So when is your next appointment?

    Later Lorraine

     
    Old 05-03-2007, 01:02 PM   #6
    signing
    Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: May 2005
    Posts: 84
    signing HB User
    Re: Possible Cubital Tunnel Syndrome

    Hi Lorraine!

    Thanks for updating me ... that really is great that you are being taken seriously and that things are proceeding for you. The EMG will tell you more about your muscle wasting and hopefully be able to pinpoint the area where the nerve is compromised - she was able to tell that I have slowness in the elbow (slowness meaning the nerve is conducting slowly through the elbow as opposed to in the wrist or another area in the arm) which points towards the cubital tunnel syndrome.

    I'm sorry that both of your arms are affected. It's just in my left arm. I'm a righty but I have been surprised at how often I use/bend my left arm!

    I am waiting for my doctor to call me for the next step. I have only seen my GP so far (plus the rehab/pain management doctor who did my EMG). I am not sure if I am going to be referred to a neuro or what will happen. He was supposed to get the results from the EMG today so I hope to hear tomorrow or early next week from him.

    I am not sure if I will need surgery or what. I have no muscle wasting, just tons of pain and numbness. I am not sure if anything will correct it that is non-surgical but I don't look forward to surgery at all. It is an understatement that I do not have time for this ... LOL. I have three kids, work at home and have a part-time job outside of the house. Am not sure how surgery will affect my income - I have no benefits like sick days.

    Oh well, I guess I will deal with it, whatever it is. I have had to call in twice already and it's only been 2 weeks since this has all began which I really really hate to do.

    Keep me updated, and hope your EMG goes well!

    Monica

     
    Old 05-03-2007, 08:44 PM   #7
    RAINIE73
    Member
    (female)
     
    RAINIE73's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Oct 2006
    Location: MICHIGAN
    Posts: 97
    RAINIE73 HB User
    Re: Possible Cubital Tunnel Syndrome

    Hi Monica,

    Yeah we all have to deal what comes dished up to us! Life can be crazy at times. I know I could use some time off, but NOT for this! Lol! Not like I will be able to do anything fun! I think I am just going to go through all my books and find the ones I haven't read yet!

    I told my boss about it and he didn't seem to enthused or interested when I told him. I tried explaining what was wrong and why I will be needing surgery. He just kind of stared at me! Then said to just keep him posted on whats going on. I hope he didn't think I was looking for sympathy! I just want him to know that this is somewhat of a serious problem and that I am in discomfort all the time. I think some people just don't believe all my problems I have like my back. I am always taking something for my back, so I am sometimes cheerie or bubbly (and sometimes total opposite- LOL within in matter of seconds) But I think when people see me being cheerie or bubbly, they think I feel great! When truth is I am usually aching all over . So they don't seem to take your health issues seriously.

    I think I am going to just use up my vacation time for the recovery. We have disablity there, but only receive a small portion of your pay. And I just bought my first house, so I need all the pay I can get for my mortgage.

    I do hope that your results come back ok! I know with myself, I sure don't want to spend my vacation glued to the couch! I think I will get reaquainted with reading again. Haven't read a book in over 6 months. So I hope my results are not as bad as the doctor made it sound. When he said there was quite abit of muslce wasting, I was in some what of a shock.

    Luckily I don't have any little ones to take care of, so my recovery should be pretty quiet. I do want children in the near future though!

    I am wondering if there is much pain involved during recovery or after I wake up. I seem to have been reading where some people do and others don't.

    I had 2 surgeries about 7-8 years ago for cysts on my fallopeon tubes and was told with the first one, I might have pain afterwards. I had quit abit of pain right after I woke up after surgery, but they gave me some good stuff and sent me home! I sleep the whole day that day, then felt great the next day and went shopping! But those incisions were only an inch long.

    Well I am just babbling right on and on now. I think its time to turn in for the night!

    Good luck with your results from your doctor!
    I will post again tomorrow evening.

    Later Lorraine

     
    Old 05-04-2007, 07:56 AM   #8
    curiousforever
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    curiousforever's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Nov 2005
    Posts: 682
    curiousforever HB User
    Re: Possible Cubital Tunnel Syndrome

    The surgery itself relieved pain almost right away. I had both done a month apart 3 yrs ago.

    I do have probs with all the nerves now - both arms and legs - nothing impinged (which is why you're having surgery) however. I'm positive it's not related to the surgery however.

    Good luck!

     
    Old 05-04-2007, 02:12 PM   #9
    signing
    Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: May 2005
    Posts: 84
    signing HB User
    Re: Possible Cubital Tunnel Syndrome

    Thanks for writing me back!

    I spoke with the doctor's office today. She said what I already knew, that the EMG showed no evidence of problems at the nerve root (i.e., neck area) and that it showed some ulnar neuropathy. They want me to have an MRI done and they got me in pretty quickly - Sunday of all days. It will be on my cervical spine just to make sure ... the doctor who did the EMG said that sometimes an MRI can "see" things an EMG cannot.

    Anyway, I did get the feeling that the nurse didn't think the ulnar neuropathy (i.e., cubital TS) was that big of a deal. I really hope that they DO NOT decide to do nothing about it until I have irreversible muscle damage. Obviously the medicine they gave me (the Anaprox, an anti-inflammatory) is doing nothing, so I'm not sure what they will do if the MRI is negative.

    No matter what the stupid EMG said I am in a considerable amount of pain. Last night it was so bad I took two hydrocodones instead of the usual one and it made me so nauseated, and then gave me nightmares all night long!

    I had to put getting pregnant on hold for this, I don't want to spend much more time away from it, I'm not getting any younger (33) and was having trouble getting pregnant anyway, this is inconvenient, very painful and is making my life a lot harder and less fun.

    And this morning I woke up with a numb RIGHT pinky and some right elbow pain ... but my problem, I thought, was in my left.

    Am I falling apart?

    Sorry for ME to babble on and on, please update when you get back from your EMG.

    Monica

    Last edited by signing; 05-04-2007 at 02:13 PM. Reason: Left out a couple of words

     
    Old 05-04-2007, 04:56 PM   #10
    curiousforever
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    curiousforever's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Nov 2005
    Posts: 682
    curiousforever HB User
    Re: Possible Cubital Tunnel Syndrome

    From what I've heard - it's common to end up with it in both arms.

    Did they tell you if it was impinged? And if so, where....mine were at the elbows.

    It is smart to do the MRI's just to make sure it isn't from the CSpine.

     
    Old 05-04-2007, 05:42 PM   #11
    signing
    Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: May 2005
    Posts: 84
    signing HB User
    Re: Possible Cubital Tunnel Syndrome

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by curiousforever View Post
    From what I've heard - it's common to end up with it in both arms.

    Did they tell you if it was impinged? And if so, where....mine were at the elbows.

    It is smart to do the MRI's just to make sure it isn't from the CSpine.
    The doctor who did my EMG said that there was slowing in nerve conduction in the elbow. She didn't use the word "impinged" but did say it was probably something like "cubital tunnel syndrome."

    I feel better knowing my c-spine will be looked at although am not looking forward to the MRI itself (although it can't be as un-fun as the EMG was!!).


    Monica

     
    Old 05-04-2007, 07:05 PM   #12
    RAINIE73
    Member
    (female)
     
    RAINIE73's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Oct 2006
    Location: MICHIGAN
    Posts: 97
    RAINIE73 HB User
    Re: Possible Cubital Tunnel Syndrome

    Hi Monica, Sorry for not posting earlier this evening. I came home and tried doing some research, but was so exausted and in pain, that I went straight to bed. I'm feeling better now! Don't worry about the MRI, that is very easy!!! I have had several over the years! The only discomfort for myself was just laying on the hard surface because of my back.

    Well- now onto today's EMG. NO FUN AT ALL!!! Not like I thought it was going to be fun, but I didn't think it would be that bad. After she started with the needles, she kept saying she was sorry for any pain I was feeling. I asked 'Does everyone feel this like this? I don't want to look like a big baby!' She stated that unfortunately she was having to be very thorough with me, because she was having trouble with my arms. So that was why I was feeling it more. Not that I want to freak anyone out from getting this, but I kept hearing that this was no big deal and that you barely feel the needles. She had to keep digging with the needles. One spot where she inserted a needle started brusing when I got home and hurts to the touch. But after a good nap, everythings fine now. Not fun and I really do not want to go again, but she did give me some interesting information.
    -I have no damage to my ulnar nerve, but it seems as if it is really irriated.
    -I do have mild Carple Tunnel in both hands.
    -She reconfirmed all of the muscle deteriation in both hands and my right arm, which she says I have Myopathy,which is a disease and is possibly thyroid related.

    She said she was going to write up her reports and fax it to both my doctors (the orthapedic and my internal doctor). So I guess I will either hear from one of the doctors sometime next week, or wait for my follow up with the orthapedic on Thursday.

    I am really confused and not knowing where to turn now! The myopathy does not sound good, but really has me thinking. So I will probally be researching online all night tonight!

    Lorraine

     
    Old 05-04-2007, 07:31 PM   #13
    RAINIE73
    Member
    (female)
     
    RAINIE73's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Oct 2006
    Location: MICHIGAN
    Posts: 97
    RAINIE73 HB User
    Re: Possible Cubital Tunnel Syndrome

    Hi Again,

    Just to let you know I am working on another post, that I will post in the general heath board, because it lists all of my problems I have had to deal with my health. The title is 'Sorry long post- Trying to get to root of my problems'. I am hoping maybe everything is just tied in together somehow.

    I sure know what it feels like to be falling apart!

    I would definately like to have children also. I feel like I am not getting any younger either and need to do something in the near future, but not sure with all my problems if its even a good idea. I am also 33. I meet my wonderful boyfriend a year and half ago and I know marriage has been on his mind for awhile now! He just has not made that step yet of asking!

    Thanks so much for listening! I have seen so many doctors over the years and very rarely do they listen! So I am just going to spill everything out on healthboards if thats ok!

    Talk at ya Later~ Rain (Lorraine)

    Last edited by RAINIE73; 05-04-2007 at 10:58 PM.

     
    Old 05-05-2007, 06:47 AM   #14
    curiousforever
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    curiousforever's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Nov 2005
    Posts: 682
    curiousforever HB User
    Re: Possible Cubital Tunnel Syndrome

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by signingbaby View Post
    The doctor who did my EMG said that there was slowing in nerve conduction in the elbow. She didn't use the word "impinged" but did say it was probably something like "cubital tunnel syndrome."

    I feel better knowing my c-spine will be looked at although am not looking forward to the MRI itself (although it can't be as un-fun as the EMG was!!).


    Monica
    if it 'slows' at the elbow - most likely that is where it is impinged.

    Like I've said - if you have pain (some lucky people only have numbness, tingling) the surgery itself relieves a lot of it. The recovery is pretty easy. If it's mild - there isn't a rush to surgery usually either. Waiting too long however can cause permanent damage.

    Not sure if mine is cause I lived with moderate in one arm for 3 yrs and was not given surgery as an option. I didn't go to sites and look stuff up then either.

     
    Old 05-08-2007, 03:56 PM   #15
    signing
    Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: May 2005
    Posts: 84
    signing HB User
    Re: Possible Cubital Tunnel Syndrome

    Hi Lorraine!

    I know, the EMG sucks, I knew it was going to be uncomfortable but I have a very low pain tolerance so it was brutal. I'm sorry you had to go through that!

    It's really amazing, though, what they can find out with this horrid test. At least you have some answers, do you know what your next step is yet?

    My MRI was Sunday, easy, I was afraid I'd be scared of being in the tube but it was find, it just made weird noises for 20 minutes. My c-spine is fine. They called me yesterday to tell me that and they were like, OK bye! And I said, WELL what is the next step? She said, oh, the doctor didn't say anything about that. So I got a little miffed and asked if I was just supposed to live with severe elbow pain and finger numbness? And then she asked if he'd put me on Anaprox, which I said yes, and she said that they'd like me to stay on it 6 weeks total to see if there is any improvement.

    This is OK, but I was very put off by the complete dismissal of my problem. I had a feeling they didn't think my ulnar neuropathy was that big of a deal but I experience pain constantly, and usually severe pain for a few hours each day depending on what I do.

    I have 2 weeks left on the Anaprox but I'm starting to have the problem that I feel sick to my stomach all the time, have stomach pain and can't eat much. I really don't want to get an ulcer from this stupid medication.

    So, in other words, I am in the same exact situation I was in when this all began except my stomach is all messed up and I know what is going on.

    I just hope that in 2 weeks (if I'm still having elbow problems) that I get a referral to another doctor. I also asked to be mailed a copy of my EMG report and it's not here yet, so I'm sure they "forgot."

    I'm afraid that they are just going to say, you have to learn to live with this pain and this problem, it isn't severe enough for us to do anything about.



    Sorry for the novel!

    I hope you are well Lorraine.

    Monica


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RAINIE73 View Post
    Hi Monica, Sorry for not posting earlier this evening. I came home and tried doing some research, but was so exausted and in pain, that I went straight to bed. I'm feeling better now! Don't worry about the MRI, that is very easy!!! I have had several over the years! The only discomfort for myself was just laying on the hard surface because of my back.

    Well- now onto today's EMG. NO FUN AT ALL!!! Not like I thought it was going to be fun, but I didn't think it would be that bad. After she started with the needles, she kept saying she was sorry for any pain I was feeling. I asked 'Does everyone feel this like this? I don't want to look like a big baby!' She stated that unfortunately she was having to be very thorough with me, because she was having trouble with my arms. So that was why I was feeling it more. Not that I want to freak anyone out from getting this, but I kept hearing that this was no big deal and that you barely feel the needles. She had to keep digging with the needles. One spot where she inserted a needle started brusing when I got home and hurts to the touch. But after a good nap, everythings fine now. Not fun and I really do not want to go again, but she did give me some interesting information.
    -I have no damage to my ulnar nerve, but it seems as if it is really irriated.
    -I do have mild Carple Tunnel in both hands.
    -She reconfirmed all of the muscle deteriation in both hands and my right arm, which she says I have Myopathy,which is a disease and is possibly thyroid related.

    She said she was going to write up her reports and fax it to both my doctors (the orthapedic and my internal doctor). So I guess I will either hear from one of the doctors sometime next week, or wait for my follow up with the orthapedic on Thursday.

    I am really confused and not knowing where to turn now! The myopathy does not sound good, but really has me thinking. So I will probally be researching online all night tonight!

    Lorraine

     
    Closed Thread

    Related Topics
    Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
    Long Term Shoulder Pain - why? Also have cubital tunnel syndrome lokobreed Carpal Tunnel Syndrome 0 10-10-2009 10:21 AM
    What to expect after ulnar nerve transposition surgery for cubital tunnel? hygieneguru Neuropathy 21 07-29-2008 06:16 AM
    Carpal Tunnel or Cubital Tunnel?? Keri1971 Carpal Tunnel Syndrome 12 06-02-2005 07:31 AM
    anyone suffer with crampping hands with cubital tunnel syndrome? Nigelz Carpal Tunnel Syndrome 1 02-01-2005 04:31 PM
    cubital tunnel syndrome.. annarayne Carpal Tunnel Syndrome 1 01-12-2005 09:34 PM
    crampping hands with cubital tunnel syndrome Nigelz Carpal Tunnel Syndrome 0 01-01-2005 06:05 AM
    crampping hands = cubital tunnel syndrome Nigelz Carpal Tunnel Syndrome 9 09-30-2004 12:46 PM
    Cubital Tunnel Syndrome weakness Nigelz Carpal Tunnel Syndrome 3 04-11-2004 02:55 PM




    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Search this Thread:

    Advanced Search

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is Off
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are Off
    Pingbacks are Off
    Refbacks are Off




    Sign Up Today!

    Ask our community of thousands of members your health questions, and learn from others experiences. Join the conversation!

    I want my free account

    All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:11 PM.





    © 2020 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved.
    Do not copy or redistribute in any form!