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    Old 05-05-2004, 05:36 PM   #31
    tanis
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Portia:
    If the drugs are working for you and you have had no serious side affects, then listen to your own body and people you trust. You say you were put on them for good reason.
    The only reason I noticed how bad things had gotten, was because of the constant nattering my mother, father, aunt, and uncle were doing. (thank goodness). Then my children and husband began to fall apart. Hopefully you have people around who know you well enough to notice any negative changes in your life. I argued for the longest time that everything was fine, and that my life was horrible before the pills. It wasn't until I was on the brink of murder/suicide that I really listened to them. Almost too late.
    I just think that the doctors really need to look into what is happening in a persons life before they give these things out, because you know what? Sometimes Life Just Sucks, and sometimes we need to figure out why and try to make it better, or make the best of it with a clear head. Sometimes we have good reason to feel the way we feel. We were given nerves in order to feel pain. If we can't feel pain we may injure ourselves badly. So, if you you are numb to what is happening around you, how will you fix it. You don't realize it is going on. Well, now I am just going on so I will get off here.
    You may be a candidate for effexor or some other type of drug, I don't know. I am sure some people need medication. I am just not one of them. Be educated, and take care.

     
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    Old 05-05-2004, 09:24 PM   #32
    Portia26
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Thanks for being understanding to me and responding. I'm sorry too if my initial response to your post struck a nerve with you. We all have different experiences. At the moment, I am sticking with the advice of my SSRI-knowledgeable GP and my psychologist, and I will be staying with this current dose of effexor that I have been on for a while (112.5 mgs) and will not be changing that dose. It was suggested to me at one point that I go see a psychiatrist for an evaluation (it was entirely up to me), but I decided against it, assuming that the psychiatrist might want to change my dose (they generally put you on higher doses of SSRI's for OCD) or add god knows what to it. I don't really trust psychiatrists, since they think that every mental issue is completely chemical in nature. I take on a much more holistic view. I do blieve there is a chemical element to it, but I also believe that not just meds can alter those "chemicals" in a positive way. Therapy, lifestyle and diet are also other very KEY factors. I once was someone who was on meds and not in therapy. I think this is so wrong. Not only because there is no way of making real change in life without dealing with the real issues, but I also think it's important for a doc to see you regularly while you are on these meds, for all the reasons you mention. And to Tanis, I really don't think my life is all that much better now than it was before meds, but certain important changes have taken place: I am no longer in a constant panic, I can eat now (I was too anxious to eat any solid foods in the weeks before going on meds), and I can sleep (I was also incapable of proper sleep before the meds). I don't ask any more of my meds than to get me to the point where I can take care of the rest of the problems myself. I think if I were to see a psychiatrist, they might argue that my symptoms seem to show that I am not responding well enough to meds, and to increase my dose. I am not going to do this. And if it comes to the point where they no longer work, we will see what I will do then. Perhaps I will try another round without the drugs. Ideally, I would love not to have to take them. But without them, I am not capable of working on my problems with OCD and GAD. For me, going on meds has not been the glamorous miracle it appears to have been to some. I do believe I am still firmly grounded in reality. I still fight the fight every day. But meds have helped me to fight. I have become more responsible, more caring and more mature in the last few months. I do NOT attribute this to meds. My meds allowed me to face my demons, but I had to do that on my own. It has taken and it still taking a lot of hard work with my therapist. I agree that most people need to know as much as possible about these meds before starting them. But liek you said Sandalla, when you first read up on Effexor, you were so scared, you decided to ignore what you read. But then, you posted a VERY frightening message, so do you understand what I'm getting at? It's all about balance. Maybe people will, like you, be so scared when they read your post that they too will resist reading anything negative in the future because they were so scared, and then they may encounter side effects and have no clue what to do. I am promoting a healthy balance of information here. I really think a solution would be the enzyme test. So many people could be spared problems. I wonder how we could get e movement going in favor of this test being standard practice? And by teh way Sandalla, how are you doing now? I hope things are great for you, after such a struggle. And you too Tanis. Are you back with your children? Is everyone OK? Let me know, and everyone, pardon my initial hostility. I think we all understand eachother a lot better now.

     
    Old 05-05-2004, 09:38 PM   #33
    Portia26
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    Unhappy Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aries872
    I went through the same thing. The DRUGS is what makes us suicidal after coming off of them. How can you say that it is us? I wasn't suicidal when I went on the s***!!! Only when I came off of it did I experience that depth of a depression, EVER! So yes, I believe that the drug is what did it.

    I went on xanax during the remainder of the withdrawal. Stopped taking that and didn't look back.

    I am so ANTI, Antideppressant now!!!!

    Aries872
    I'm sorry it came out that way. I'm so sorry you went through that, and felt so depressed. I believe you when you say it was the drugs. I was just mad and scared when I wrote that. Again, I apologize. Fortunately for me I suppose, I clearly don't understand how bad the withdrawals can be. But on the other side of the coin, I have reached that level of despair, so I do know how that feels. Ironically, before I went on meds. We are all so different. Seems like it's playing Russian roulette with these drugs!

     
    Old 05-05-2004, 11:59 PM   #34
    Heiewyn
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Portia: This is tanis, I am sorry. I had to come back and edit after seeing my daughter name (Heiewyn) too late. Shoot!

    Within a week, my youngest son came home. He was the one with the separation anxiety. The other three came home the following week. It took a while to get things back to the way they had been the year before. I welcomed the money problems and such. This was in 2001. We rented out our home and moved back to the town our children grew up. That was the root of all of our problems. The kids were very isolated and are now very happy to be among the living. My husband has been back to work almost a year. Me, I have far too much time on my hands now, as you can probably tell. Ha-ha. I left my job behind, but find it well worth the sacrifice. Things are not perfect, but I am sure when I need to talk about things, people such as all of you in this forum will be here.

    May talk to you again soon.

    Last edited by Heiewyn; 05-06-2004 at 12:03 AM.

     
    Old 05-06-2004, 12:00 PM   #35
    Sandalla
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Portia26
    Therapy, lifestyle and diet are also other very KEY factors.
    Amen! I couldn't agree more! I personally believe that Cognitive Behavioural Therapy should be the very first route to go - particularly as it focuses on all of the above.

    112.5mg is not a terribly high dose. I don't know you, of course, Portia, but you certainly come across as one very strong and self-aware person, and I have no doubt that with a combination of this and some good CBT, you'll achieve some life-lasting tools to be able to beat your challenges. Then, you can flush those pills down the toilet and never look back!


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Portia26
    I agree that most people need to know as much as possible about these meds before starting them. But liek you said Sandalla, when you first read up on Effexor, you were so scared, you decided to ignore what you read. But then, you posted a VERY frightening message, so do you understand what I'm getting at? It's all about balance. Maybe people will, like you, be so scared when they read your post that they too will resist reading anything negative in the future because they were so scared, and then they may encounter side effects and have no clue what to do.
    Point taken. I think it might be a very good idea to follow up my initial posting with a practical (non-panicky ) "Red Flag" or "High Alert" or "Don't Ignore" Side Effect Guideline. What d'ya think?


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Portia26
    I really think a solution would be the enzyme test. So many people could be spared problems. I wonder how we could get e movement going in favor of this test being standard practice?
    EXACTLY RIGHT!!! And this is what gets me just SO ANGRY. If this theory is indeed correct, then this whole conversation, and indeed all this heartache and suffering and so on, would be a moot point!

    I guess posting on boards like this would be a good first start. Having prospective patients DEMAND the test BEFORE playing Russian Roulette. From my perspective, 7-10% odds are waaaay too high!

     
    Old 05-07-2004, 10:52 PM   #36
    laellis1975
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Sandalla,
    I am so glad to see your post warning people. I only wish more people knew the true harm and damage this drug and other anti depressants really do. To quote from an information book on perscription drugs, effexor " may increase suicidal tendencies". That alone should make the doctors stop dishing it out to people. I have researched on this drug in particular after having to cope with a loss due to this very drug. My heart goes out to you for what you are going through with this, I hope and pray for you that you can get off of it with out harm. Sometimes I wonder if these doctors would ever really see the damage that these drugs are doing to not only the patients taking it, but also to those who are left behind after something terrible does happen. All I seem to find from the doctors is "how helpful" these drugs are, but if that is truely the case, then I would like to see them explain to my son why his daddy is no longer around to watch him grow up into the wonderful young man he is turning into. You are so right, this has to stop. Knowing that these drugs increase suicidal tendencies and handing them out to people who are so depressed already should be a crime, almost murder. I am really surprised that there are not more lawsuits slapped on these doctors. Sorry, but even after a few years, it is still a very frustrating thing to deal with. I hope people heed your warnings. God bless you.

     
    Old 05-08-2004, 01:32 PM   #37
    spectredelarose
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    This is a very interesting thread for many reasons. This has been and will continue to be, in my opinion, an on-going debate until the next generation of anti-depressant medication appears... .

    Both points are Valid. Suicide and Homicide do occur by persons on specifically SSRIs. However no medical literature is able to state 100% that A (the drug) causes B (a negative act). The statistics are correlational at best. Correlation does Not mean causation.

    Yes, these drugs do either help or harm...sometimes both and there is the entire spectrum in between.

    Effexor is DIFFERENT from other SSRI in that it ALSO WORKS ON ANOTHER NEUROTRANSMITTER (NAMELY NOR-EPINEPHRINE)...at doses of over 300mg/day it ALSO AFFECT DOPAMINE RECEPTORS.

    Thank you for the liver enzyme information (it is invaluable) and I hear you...Paxil almost did me in...altered my personality in a way I would have never dreamed. We each have our poisons...and unfortunately...a depressed person goes for help and will usually be given medication WITHOUT concomittant "Talk-Therapy". A therapist should notice subtle changes in their client's personalities while on a drug or mulitple drugs...and be able to suggest possible interventions to either their client or their client's prescribing physician.

    Blessings of All that is Good...
    spectre de la rose

     
    Old 05-08-2004, 01:37 PM   #38
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by laellis1975
    Sandalla,
    I am so glad to see your post warning people. I only wish more people knew the true harm and damage this drug and other anti depressants really do. To quote from an information book on perscription drugs, effexor " may increase suicidal tendencies". That alone should make the doctors stop dishing it out to people. I have researched on this drug in particular after having to cope with a loss due to this very drug. My heart goes out to you for what you are going through with this, I hope and pray for you that you can get off of it with out harm. Sometimes I wonder if these doctors would ever really see the damage that these drugs are doing to not only the patients taking it, but also to those who are left behind after something terrible does happen. All I seem to find from the doctors is "how helpful" these drugs are, but if that is truely the case, then I would like to see them explain to my son why his daddy is no longer around to watch him grow up into the wonderful young man he is turning into. You are so right, this has to stop. Knowing that these drugs increase suicidal tendencies and handing them out to people who are so depressed already should be a crime, almost murder. I am really surprised that there are not more lawsuits slapped on these doctors. Sorry, but even after a few years, it is still a very frustrating thing to deal with. I hope people heed your warnings. God bless you.
    +++++++++++
    Dear laellis,
    I am deeply sorry for your loss. Deeply. May an angel protect you and your son. Mine is 6.

    May an Angel Protect Us All...
    __________________
    Blessings of All that is Good

     
    Old 05-08-2004, 07:32 PM   #39
    Sandalla
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Laellis. I am so very sorry for your loss. I wish I could find the right words to say to you.

    I can only hope that in my small way I can help prevent more of these tragedies. And I'm only just starting!!! The more I read, the more clear it is to me, how hard it is for us Davids to take on the Goliaths. BUT IT CAN BE DONE!!! And I certainly don't intend going down without a fight!

    As a matter of interest, did you look into taking legal action at all?

    Here's an Effexor petition worth signing.

    http://www.petitiononline.com/effexor/

    Take care!

     
    Old 05-08-2004, 07:36 PM   #40
    Sandalla
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    SYNOPSIS

    The cytochrome P450 system is an evolutionary system to deal with the breakdown of endogenous and exogenous chemicals in the body. There is an increasing amount of interest in this area as new information is enabling us to understand why people metabolise drugs differently and why there is a spectrum of adverse effects in different people. Understanding the cytochrome P450 system also explains the mechanisms of some drug interactions, and enables us to predict which of these are likely to be relevant in clinical practice.


    Go to this link for the full article. This website has a mountain of information.

    [url]www.antidepressantsfacts.com/cytochrome.htm[/url]


    And more ...


    Pharmacogenetic Application in Drug Development and Clinical Trials

    In 1997, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration issued a guidance for industry and supported pharmacogenetic testing throughout the drug development process (United States Food and Drug Administration, 1997). Understanding how to adjust dose to minimize toxicity may allow marketing a drug that otherwise would have an unacceptable rate of adverse effects because its toxicity was unpredictable and unpreventable without pharmacogenetic tools. When genetic polymorphisms affect important metabolic routes of elimination, dosing adjustments may achieve the safe and effective use of a drug. Identifying metabolic differences in patient groups based on genetic polymorphisms would provide improved treatment recommendations and product labeling, thereby promoting the safe and effective use of a drug.


    [url]http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/29/4/591#T1[/url]

    I shall continue to share information as I find it.

    Last edited by Sandalla; 05-09-2004 at 04:52 AM.

     
    Old 05-10-2004, 09:20 AM   #41
    laellis1975
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    dear sandella and spectredelarose
    Thank you for your kindness. My son is now almost 11, this happened when he was only four, which is what makes me so mad about it. I did think about legal action, as did his folks, I am sure his doctor was on pins and needles for at least a year waiting to see if he would be sued, but that would not bring him back. I am just so very thankful to see that someone else is warning on this drug too. I will definitly read that petition when I get in from work tonight. Thanks for posting it. As for your struggles sandella, god be with you, and if you ever need to talk, I check the boards often. I will check back tonight, and thanks again.

     
    Old 05-10-2004, 09:48 PM   #42
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    This is an excellent thread. Many good points.

    May I add, that Luvox did not prevent Eric Harris from committing all those murders at Columbine High School nor prevent him from killing himself. It may have even caused it.

    Out of the LSD experiments of the '60's they discovered the serotonin releasing of these drugs caused a desirable side effect of mood-lifting. So then was born the assumption that all depression must be a result of serotonin deficiency and soon the first SSRi's came to market.

    Complete theory. Sloppy and inaccurate but boy it sold. So they like to say it's like being a diabetic. Well, people can be tested for high blood sugar with biological tests, namely blood. The normal blood sugar levels are well established. So not only can diabetes-type symptoms can be confirmed as real, biological disease, but it can be fairly accurately treated...since diabetics can monitor their blood sugar daily with home monitors so as to know when insulin is needed.

    Can they measure serotonin in the living brain, or any other neurotransmitter for that matter? Can they tell us what are normal levels, and if we are deficient or not with any biological tests???

    NO !!

    So then they play with people's brains' with dangerous chemicals, not knowing if things will be ok. But that's not their problem now, is it?

    New research (apparentely independant) suggests the serotonin cells become damaged over long-term use. The research paid for and done by Eli-Lilly said Prozac grows new serotonin cells. Who's right? Well, I know independant researchers don't have anything to lose by their findings, but Eli-Lilly does so it seems very convienient they found a different result. Considering latest news stories from major media about antidepressant clinical trial cover ups, I think we can figure it out.

    None of what they do is illegal, but it should be.

     
    Old 05-10-2004, 11:36 PM   #43
    Portia26
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    I totally agree that we MUST find a way to prevent these horrible side effects from happening. I do want to point out though, that no one ever seems to mention that the other boy involved (Dylan Kelbold) with the horrible Columbine tragedy was NOT on meds... Not only that, but this was a VERY well planned and premeditated event... plans were being made for it before Harris was on meds. I can't post links here, but if you do a search for "dylan klebold ssris" on google, read the first link that comes up. It's all there. In this case, I don't think we can blame the horrible potential side effects of SSRI's. The link in other cases is spurious, at best. I am saying that the side effects of these meds can most certainly PUSH you to any number of horrible outcomes, but it must be noted that these side effects can only be one of a NUMBER of factors that lead to such horrible crimes/tragedies. That being said, I think we must fight to learn more GENUINE, SCIENTIFIC information about these drugs. EXTREME CAUTION must be used in prescribing them! IE: Prozac for WEIGHT LOSS? Insanity. These drugs are being abused all over the place. However, they have also helped many. If only we could find a way to figure out who they may help and who they may hinder BEFORE people are put through such pain.

     
    Old 05-11-2004, 11:05 AM   #44
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Portia26
    I totally agree that we MUST find a way to prevent these horrible side effects from happening. I do want to point out though, that no one ever seems to mention that the other boy involved (Dylan Kelbold) with the horrible Columbine tragedy was NOT on meds... Not only that, but this was a VERY well planned and premeditated event... plans were being made for it before Harris was on meds. I can't post links here, but if you do a search for "dylan klebold ssris" on google, read the first link that comes up. It's all there. In this case, I don't think we can blame the horrible potential side effects of SSRI's. The link in other cases is spurious, at best. I am saying that the side effects of these meds can most certainly PUSH you to any number of horrible outcomes, but it must be noted that these side effects can only be one of a NUMBER of factors that lead to such horrible crimes/tragedies. That being said, I think we must fight to learn more GENUINE, SCIENTIFIC information about these drugs. EXTREME CAUTION must be used in prescribing them! IE: Prozac for WEIGHT LOSS? Insanity. These drugs are being abused all over the place. However, they have also helped many. If only we could find a way to figure out who they may help and who they may hinder BEFORE people are put through such pain.
    I thought I read Dylan had been on Ritalin, but I could be mistaken. Anyway, my real point was that the claims by the psychiatric community that suicidal/homicidal people will be ok if they take their meds is not true. These meds obviously have no concrete benefit, unlike insulin definately benefits diabetes...

    It just burns me when the doctor's try to compare the two.

    I agree, prozac for weight loss is insanity. And, Sarafem for PMS, whoops, I mean PMDD. Nevermind that PMS and PMDD symptoms are identical, we need PMDD so we can label women who have menstral problems as mentally ill.....ha, a man's dream come true, right?? Now he can tell people his wife is crazy....

     
    Old 05-11-2004, 12:01 PM   #45
    Portia26
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    I agree, the science is just NOT established the way it is for insulin and diabetes. It is not a logical comparison. And by no means will suicidal/homicidal people be better if they only take these meds... so much more needs to be done for these people, and sadly, it seems that sometimes nothing can be done to stop them. The Columbine tragedy should make us think of so much more than just SSRI control though... there were so many horrible things that went into that tragedy. It pains my heart to think about it. I mean, things in HIGH SCHOOL getting so bad that they would be THAT angry? And access to guns? it's sick! But I digress...

    About PMDD, yeah... how convenient for men!

     
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