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    Old 05-11-2004, 05:53 PM   #46
    spectredelarose
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    Thumbs up Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Blessings All...This IS a POWERFUL THREAD...Wonderful.

    For too long, women especially, have literally been experimental subjects WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT as all was deemed..."hysteria" (wandering womb)...Freud...Google the Weiss and Freud Letters. Freud's ORIGINAL THEORY OF DEPRESSION AND ANXIETY WAS NOT WHAT IS TAUGHT TO MOST PSYCHIATRISTS...He had to change his THEORY to BLAME THE VICTIM...when in fact...his first observations were that these women were indeed victims of various forms of violent trauma or abuse! That however...would not "fly" and he desperately needed to be published and accepted (cocaine is an expensive habit...even in those days ;-) .

    Keep on striving for Knowledge and Exercise your RIGHTS as HEALTH CARE CONSUMERS... . You'll all make it...baby step by baby step.

    I walk with you all.

    Blessings,
    marie
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    Last edited by spectredelarose; 05-11-2004 at 05:55 PM.

     
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    Old 05-11-2004, 09:50 PM   #47
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by spectredelarose
    Blessings All...This IS a POWERFUL THREAD...Wonderful.

    For too long, women especially, have literally been experimental subjects WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT as all was deemed..."hysteria" (wandering womb)...Freud...Google the Weiss and Freud Letters. Freud's ORIGINAL THEORY OF DEPRESSION AND ANXIETY WAS NOT WHAT IS TAUGHT TO MOST PSYCHIATRISTS...He had to change his THEORY to BLAME THE VICTIM...when in fact...his first observations were that these women were indeed victims of various forms of violent trauma or abuse! That however...would not "fly" and he desperately needed to be published and accepted (cocaine is an expensive habit...even in those days ;-) .

    Keep on striving for Knowledge and Exercise your RIGHTS as HEALTH CARE CONSUMERS... . You'll all make it...baby step by baby step.

    I walk with you all.

    Blessings,
    marie
    I haven't read alot about the history of psychiatry, but what I have read is a sorted tale of such inaccurate theories and practices/publications as you mentioned plus alot of killing brain cells with drugs, chemical straitjackets, eletroshock, insulin shock, etc. Even lombotomy seemed like a good idea at the time to them.

    Anyway, they are still ruining lives with inaccurate theories, only it's not as obvious.

     
    Old 05-11-2004, 10:11 PM   #48
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jennita
    This is an excellent thread. Many good points.

    May I add, that Luvox did not prevent Eric Harris from committing all those murders at Columbine High School nor prevent him from killing himself. It may have even caused it.
    I watched the recent Dateline documentary on the Columbine cover-ups, hoping it might give more of an insight as to what actually happened. It didn’t touch on the SSRI theory at all. Unquestionably, these two kids spent a lot of time planning and preparing for this horrendous attack. Very hard to say what part, if any, the drugs (or lack thereof) played in this particular incident. Other tragedies are far more cut and dry. What is interesting, though, is that the sole survivor of the shootings, Mark Taylor, has become a huge advocate speaking out against SSRIs and he, himself, believes that the drugs are to blame. He’s appearing this week in Idaho and Utah with Dr Ann Blake Tracy (whose mission is to educate people about the dangers of these drugs). If you do a search, you’ll find her extremely informative - and very disturbing - website.

    Hopefully the truth will come out about this very high profile case.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jennita
    Can they measure serotonin in the living brain, or any other neurotransmitter for that matter? Can they tell us what are normal levels, and if we are deficient or not with any biological tests???

    NO !!
    Hear! Hear! And to think so many of us so naively and trustingly actually buy into this!!! My blood boils!

    So much of this “independent” research – if one digs a little deeper – is hardly independent at all. The comparison between this and diabetes makes my head spin. I have no words to even comment on the ludicrousness of this. I have also seen an article written by a Diabetes Specialist, claiming that “new research” shows how SSRIs can be used to complement diabetic treatment!!! I will try to find the article again (it has to be one of many) and see if I can quote it word for word.

    The drug companies have become fantastically masterful with their marketing genius!

    Must admit I’d never heard of the wonderful new acronym PMDD before this. Again, SHEER MARKETING GENIUS. I read that at one time they were planning on bringing out a different version of Prozac (EXACT same chemistry, EXACT same pill), but making it a lovely pink and white colour and marketing it for PMS. It would be laughable if it weren’t so perturbing.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Spectredelarose
    For too long, women especially, have literally been experimental subjects WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT as all was deemed..."hysteria" (wandering womb)...Freud...Google the Weiss and Freud Letters. Freud's ORIGINAL THEORY OF DEPRESSION AND ANXIETY WAS NOT WHAT IS TAUGHT TO MOST PSYCHIATRISTS...He had to change his THEORY to BLAME THE VICTIM...when in fact...his first observations were that these women were indeed victims of various forms of violent trauma or abuse! That however...would not "fly" and he desperately needed to be published and accepted (cocaine is an expensive habit...even in those days ;-) .
    I had a very good giggle over this one!

    Take care for now, Everyone!

     
    Old 05-14-2004, 10:18 AM   #49
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Hey there Sandella, I liked your post.

    PMDD, yeh, marketing genius. But the first commercial for it wasn't so genius as it showed a woman struggling with the typical problem of a shopping cart stuck into another at the grocery store. She was quite upset. I think they were saying this is why she needed the little pink pill. I say grab one from the parking lot, it's usually full of them!

     
    Old 05-15-2004, 08:44 AM   #50
    Sandalla
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Okay, here’s the latest update on my wonderful world of Withdrawal Hell!

    Brief history. Began Effexor XR last August, up and up and up to 300mg in January. I was feeling like nothing more than an amoeba. One very sickly amoeba. However, now, in addition to my already present collection of wonderful side-effects … I began getting awful muscle jerks, having even worse nightmares (very hostile and aggressive) – and awakening drenched, shivering, kicking, punching the pillow and making weird noises!!! Plus, starting to feel very irritable, short-tempered, aggressive and getting road rage.

    Thankfully, this time around, I was able to point to the drug, having gone through the same thing some months prior, after one week of Celexa. My Doc, however, Bless Them, suggested I go even higher and add some Lithium! At which point, I blurted out, “Are you trying to kill me???”

    And it was then that I knew I had to take my life into my own hands.

    I excitedly and ignorantly started my taper on February 2, following Doc’s orders to go down 37.5mg per week. I was doing fine until I reached the 37.5mg mark, and that was when all Hell broke loose! This was obviously far too quick for my system to tolerate.

    Today is now my 10 week anniversary on 37.5mg. Quite an achievement, I tell you. Besides having my common low-grade fever and muzzy head last night, along with the usual – albeit very mild now – brain vibrations and tinnitus … I’ve had a pretty good 5 days. This is now the longest span so far, of feeling somewhat stable. I’m still trying not to get too optimistic in case I’m blind-sided again!!!

    So I'm now up to Week 15 since starting my withdrawal ... er, should I say "discontinuation"?! Not bad at all for non-addictive, non-habit forming drugs, eh?!

    After many months of fighting with my Doc and trying to feed her with new info about the “other” side of these wonder drugs, I finally lost my cool this week and we pretty much told each other to bleep off! When I was told, “I would not hesitate to put myself, my children, my family and my best friends on these drugs”, I knew we had nothing more to say to each other. Lord help us all!

    At least I have a certain peace in me knowing that it can only be a matter of time – and I truly believe that it WILL be sooner rather than later – that the whole truth comes out. And then she will think of me …

    Sooooo, after much networking, I think/hope/pray I have found another Doc who seems to have some experience with the dark side of these evil drugs. I am waiting to get an appointment.

    Having said that, I have learned the hard way! And I shall continue to be my own Doctor.

    I’ll keep you all posted, and am very hopeful that through my own experiences, I will be able to provide some relief for a lot of others in my situation.

     
    Old 05-16-2004, 12:14 PM   #51
    Jennita
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sandalla
    Okay, here’s the latest update on my wonderful world of Withdrawal Hell!

    Brief history. Began Effexor XR last August, up and up and up to 300mg in January. I was feeling like nothing more than an amoeba. One very sickly amoeba. However, now, in addition to my already present collection of wonderful side-effects … I began getting awful muscle jerks, having even worse nightmares (very hostile and aggressive) – and awakening drenched, shivering, kicking, punching the pillow and making weird noises!!! Plus, starting to feel very irritable, short-tempered, aggressive and getting road rage.

    Thankfully, this time around, I was able to point to the drug, having gone through the same thing some months prior, after one week of Celexa. My Doc, however, Bless Them, suggested I go even higher and add some Lithium! At which point, I blurted out, “Are you trying to kill me???”

    And it was then that I knew I had to take my life into my own hands.

    I excitedly and ignorantly started my taper on February 2, following Doc’s orders to go down 37.5mg per week. I was doing fine until I reached the 37.5mg mark, and that was when all Hell broke loose! This was obviously far too quick for my system to tolerate.

    Today is now my 10 week anniversary on 37.5mg. Quite an achievement, I tell you. Besides having my common low-grade fever and muzzy head last night, along with the usual – albeit very mild now – brain vibrations and tinnitus … I’ve had a pretty good 5 days. This is now the longest span so far, of feeling somewhat stable. I’m still trying not to get too optimistic in case I’m blind-sided again!!!

    So I'm now up to Week 15 since starting my withdrawal ... er, should I say "discontinuation"?! Not bad at all for non-addictive, non-habit forming drugs, eh?!

    After many months of fighting with my Doc and trying to feed her with new info about the “other” side of these wonder drugs, I finally lost my cool this week and we pretty much told each other to bleep off! When I was told, “I would not hesitate to put myself, my children, my family and my best friends on these drugs”, I knew we had nothing more to say to each other. Lord help us all!

    At least I have a certain peace in me knowing that it can only be a matter of time – and I truly believe that it WILL be sooner rather than later – that the whole truth comes out. And then she will think of me …

    Sooooo, after much networking, I think/hope/pray I have found another Doc who seems to have some experience with the dark side of these evil drugs. I am waiting to get an appointment.

    Having said that, I have learned the hard way! And I shall continue to be my own Doctor.

    I’ll keep you all posted, and am very hopeful that through my own experiences, I will be able to provide some relief for a lot of others in my situation.
    Sorry you are having such a hard time; your doctor was clueless as most! Non-addictive really only means it doesn't produce "addictive behaviors", such as euphoria-seeking, compulsion to take the drug and lack of control over taking the drug despite any bad effects. But physical dependancy, which is the drug effects of the drug directly on the body, is a whole other ballgame and that is what is never really addressed with these drugs.

    You can't technically be an addict or a drug can't be additive without those compulsive behaviors and euphoria-seeking effects, so they get off saying a drug is non-addictive that way. But if your body is dependant on it, if you ask me that is addictive in a physical sense and just because you don't have the behaviors attached shouldn't mean they can get away with their mis-guided labeling information. They should revise it by saying non-addictive, but is a drug capable of producing physical dependancy and tolerance, which could lead to withdrawal-like syndromes and long term recovery.

    But I doubt they'll ever do that.

     
    Old 05-16-2004, 04:00 PM   #52
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Quote from Sandalla= "After many months of fighting with my Doc and trying to feed her with new info about the “other” side of these wonder drugs, I finally lost my cool this week and we pretty much told each other to bleep off! When I was told, “I would not hesitate to put myself, my children, my family and my best friends on these drugs”, I knew we had nothing more to say to each other. Lord help us all!"

    undefinedI have tried to inform doctors and nurses on the possibility that these drugs are really bad for some people. I was just looked at as though I were evil for saying so. They dig in their heels, cover their ears, and say, "lalalalalalalala."

     
    Old 05-16-2004, 08:24 PM   #53
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Well, I'm pleased to report one small victory towards justice occurred just last week!

    Has everyone heard the latest news regarding the Pfizer scandal? (Well, one of them anyway). If you do a search for Pfizer and Neurontin, you’ll be able to read the whole story.

    In a nutshell, Pfizer has agreed to pay $430 million and plead guilty to criminal charges for illegally marketing the epilepsy drug, Neurontin, for unapproved uses, such as migraines and pain.

    Hats off to people like former insider and whistle-blower, David Franklin, who is testament to the fact that there still are some ethical and highly-principled human beings out there. I’d like to shake this gentleman’s hand personally.

    Apparently Warner-Lambert (who is now Pfizer), hired an outside firm to write some 20 or more articles for medical journals that extolled unauthorized uses of Neurontin and then paid doctors (ouch! ) to use their names as authors of the reports. This was the strategy they used to allow them to hide their role in promoting the off-label usages.

    They then trained their sales reps on how to hype unauthorized uses of Neurontin, including one meeting where a senior company official suggested what to tell doctors, saying they need to hold their hands and whisper in their ears, 'Neurontin for pain, Neurontin for monotherapy, Neurontin for bipolar, Neurontin for everything'.

    The problem though, is that for cartels the likes of Pfizer, $430 million is mere peanuts. I would say a better indictment would be to make all those wicked and depraved low-lives walk the talk ...

    Let them pop their own pills for every *bleeping* ailment!!!

    Grrrrrrrowl!

    Keep the faith, people, this inhuman injustice WILL blow up!

     
    Old 05-17-2004, 11:26 AM   #54
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sandalla
    Well, I'm pleased to report one small victory towards justice occurred just last week!

    Has everyone heard the latest news regarding the Pfizer scandal? (Well, one of them anyway). If you do a search for Pfizer and Neurontin, you’ll be able to read the whole story.

    In a nutshell, Pfizer has agreed to pay $430 million and plead guilty to criminal charges for illegally marketing the epilepsy drug, Neurontin, for unapproved uses, such as migraines and pain.

    Hats off to people like former insider and whistle-blower, David Franklin, who is testament to the fact that there still are some ethical and highly-principled human beings out there. I’d like to shake this gentleman’s hand personally.

    Apparently Warner-Lambert (who is now Pfizer), hired an outside firm to write some 20 or more articles for medical journals that extolled unauthorized uses of Neurontin and then paid doctors (ouch! ) to use their names as authors of the reports. This was the strategy they used to allow them to hide their role in promoting the off-label usages.

    They then trained their sales reps on how to hype unauthorized uses of Neurontin, including one meeting where a senior company official suggested what to tell doctors, saying they need to hold their hands and whisper in their ears, 'Neurontin for pain, Neurontin for monotherapy, Neurontin for bipolar, Neurontin for everything'.

    The problem though, is that for cartels the likes of Pfizer, $430 million is mere peanuts. I would say a better indictment would be to make all those wicked and depraved low-lives walk the talk ...

    Let them pop their own pills for every *bleeping* ailment!!!

    Grrrrrrrowl!

    Keep the faith, people, this inhuman injustice WILL blow up!


    Whooooohooooo! Thanks so much for the information! I was aware of it originally when it was on T.V. and wondered all this time if it had been settled yet. I think it's a big victory to finally get the guilty verdict instead of the usual out of court settlements with the plantiffs that the drug companies have been able to do for many years. Guilty! So much for people who used to claim that alot of the cases against drug companies had no merit. No doubt those cases did have merit; the only difference this time was someone who was on the inside of the drug company finally spoke out, and he was smart enough to tape conversations and have such evidence to back it all up!

    The only thing I didn't like was when I found the Pfizer site area for stockholders, it mentioned that with this settlement, Pfizer is no longer responsible for future problems with the med.

    I would think this would mean docs' are now responsible for any off-label prescribing; however, I think there is a loophole since it is not illegal for doctor's to prescribe any med for off-label uses. Perhaps there should be a law against doc's prescribing for off-label uses.....otherwise, the problems will continue....

    Last edited by Jennita; 05-17-2004 at 11:36 AM.

     
    Old 05-19-2004, 08:01 PM   #55
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Hey Jennita … here’s another one to woohoo about!


    The director of the National Institutes of Health is requiring agency employees to report the financial details of any consulting payments received from drug companies over the last five years or face dismissal!!!

    Full story in today’s LA Times.

    PLEEEEZE read this article and tell me this is major progress. Are we getting very close to seeing some huge reform?

    Or am I still very naïve and green behind the ears?

     
    Old 05-19-2004, 08:40 PM   #56
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    I think change is starting to happen. It seems like for the 15 or so years these drugs have been on the market, there has been a lot of shuffling around behind the scenes in an effort to keep all these horrible stories quiet. It is a real shame, but one has to realize that these drug companies are after the almighty dollar, and nothing more. That happens to mean that if a drug wroks well, people will buy it, which is good in the case of anti-depressants. However, it also means that with clever PR and marketing, people can be quite unaware (like I have been) of the real tragedies these drugs have been involved in. After a while though, the information starts to swell to a point where any amount of PR and marketing can't stop it from seeping through the edges. It looks to me like that time is now.

    In a way, it looks as if the fact that the US is so lawyer happy and eager to sue over many, MANY things is a good thing in respect to the SSRIs. The drug companies are going to have to start making serious change is they want to stay above water... and what they want if to stay well above water!

    I think all this heralds imminent change. While those who are still benefiting from these drugs can continue to do so, I think the era of over-prescribing these meds to just about anyone without a perfect life (which, by the way, is EVERYONE) is going to come to an end. The drug companies simply can't afford it any longer. I hope that more money and focus will go into targeting these drugs to those who can truly benefit from them. It seems like, and I sincerely hope that, that is on its way to happening.

    Last edited by Portia26; 05-19-2004 at 08:42 PM.

     
    Old 05-20-2004, 12:28 PM   #57
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sandalla
    Hey Jennita … here’s another one to woohoo about!


    The director of the National Institutes of Health is requiring agency employees to report the financial details of any consulting payments received from drug companies over the last five years or face dismissal!!!

    Full story in today’s LA Times.

    PLEEEEZE read this article and tell me this is major progress. Are we getting very close to seeing some huge reform?

    Or am I still very naïve and green behind the ears?
    Wow!!! I sure hope this is major progress! Sounds like a good start.

    Rules will be made but still can be broken; at least they are trying to get some control now over the problem and that's wonderful! At least now people will be held accountable; if they do try to find ways around the new rulings, they can be punished now at least with the new rulings.

    THis is a great step towards insuring that new drugs will not be passed through the system despite some real dangers. I know there was a diabetes med that had caused liver damage/death which was known before it was marketed as one example of this consultant payoff problem. Much needs to change so we can start to trust our doctors/medical establishment/drug co's again!

     
    Old 05-21-2004, 03:32 AM   #58
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    I've had nothing but good experiences with Effexor

     
    Old 05-21-2004, 11:37 AM   #59
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ace_chick01
    I've had nothing but good experiences with Effexor
    That's good to hear for a change. However, remember that the health-related effects can be culmative; that's the danger of long-term use so try not to think of it as a drug for life but a temporary help during a bad time.

    It can be helpful to exercise regularly as studies have shown that it alleviates depression, along with a solid diet. Protein synthesis is what creates neurotransmitters in our bodies and brain like serotonin. Protein, assisted by carbs and vitamins, break down into amino acids and those acids create neurotransmitters. Drugs do not create them; they simple manipulate in unnatural ways.

    Fish and fish oils seem to also help depression as studies have shown.

    Everything we intake effects our chemicals; so things like cigarettes, alcohol, caffiene, drugs, etc. can upset them.

    Effexor and other simular can be lifesavers in time of crisis for a few people I have read, but shouldn't be considered part of a healthy, lifelong habit.

    Anyway, it's really up to a person if they want to take Effexor or not but why suffer with unsure drug effects over time when maybe there are other answers out there besides drugs.

    The drug companies won't be trying to find them for us, that's for sure!

     
    Old 05-24-2004, 10:29 AM   #60
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Now this is also very worthy of mention.

    www.plos.org

    Let’s just hope that they stay true to their mission, ie “to make reliable scientific and medical literature a public resource.

    In these sad times, wouldn’t that be a novel concept and a dream come true???

    A new non-profit organization. One of the co-founders is Dr. Harold E. Varmus, 1989 Nobel prize winner and former National Institutes of Health Director …

    Public Library of Science to launch international open-access medical journal - New discoveries about human health and disease will be made freely and immediately available to anyone in the world with an Internet connection -- from physicians and researchers to patients and policy makers -- in a new open-access medical journal, PLoS Medicine, to be launched in Autumn, 2004.

    All works published in PLoS Medicine are open access. Everything is immediately available online without cost to anyone, anywhere - to read, ********, redistribute, include in databases, and otherwise use - subject only to the condition that the original authorship is properly attributed.

    PLoS, a non-profit organization whose mission is to make reliable scientific and medical literature a public resource, formally announced today that it will publish PLoS Medicine, an open-access, international, general medical journal, beginning this fall. A "call for papers" has been issued, indicating that the journal is now accepting submissions.

     
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