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    Old 05-24-2004, 11:40 AM   #61
    Jennita
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sandalla
    Now this is also very worthy of mention.

    www.plos.org

    Let’s just hope that they stay true to their mission, ie “to make reliable scientific and medical literature a public resource.

    In these sad times, wouldn’t that be a novel concept and a dream come true???

    A new non-profit organization. One of the co-founders is Dr. Harold E. Varmus, 1989 Nobel prize winner and former National Institutes of Health Director …

    Public Library of Science to launch international open-access medical journal - New discoveries about human health and disease will be made freely and immediately available to anyone in the world with an Internet connection -- from physicians and researchers to patients and policy makers -- in a new open-access medical journal, PLoS Medicine, to be launched in Autumn, 2004.

    All works published in PLoS Medicine are open access. Everything is immediately available online without cost to anyone, anywhere - to read, ********, redistribute, include in databases, and otherwise use - subject only to the condition that the original authorship is properly attributed.

    PLoS, a non-profit organization whose mission is to make reliable scientific and medical literature a public resource, formally announced today that it will publish PLoS Medicine, an open-access, international, general medical journal, beginning this fall. A "call for papers" has been issued, indicating that the journal is now accepting submissions.
    But remember, part of the scandel with the drug companies and the antidepressant clinical trials on children was that they only filed the "good" resulting clinical trials(ones' that showed some benefit), not the countless others that either showed bad results or no results different than placebo. Those were filed away, not published. The FDA found the filed ones; now the question is if they should be forced to publish all results or not (currently, they are not required to).

    So maybe we still won't get the absolute truth at first, although I think at least this Plos organization does have the right idea, especially if some researchers not paid by drug co's will be willing to submit their research, especially the research which warns us about certain drug dangers. Maybe someday it will be required that all, not part of clinical trials be published in medical literature. I think it is a step in the right direction and will be checking that site out.....thanks for the info!

     
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    Old 05-24-2004, 09:59 PM   #62
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    I don't think it's a case of whether or not those researchers not paid by drug co's will be willing to submit their research, good and/or bad ... I'm not worried about that, I can see them all just clambering for an honest and open platform for their voices to be heard.

    My concern is whether or not their research will be "accepted" for publishing! Hmmm?

    But with a Nobel prize winner on board, don't you think we stand more of a chance of having an ethical organization here?

    Or am I again being gullible and naive??? Man, am I trying so hard to find any half full cups amongst all this dirty, broken, shattered glass!

    PS - Is everyone just waiting with baited breath for the FDA to approve Eli Lilly's new AD Duloxetine? Now when did/does the Prozac patent expire again????!!!

     
    Old 05-25-2004, 12:05 PM   #63
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sandalla
    I don't think it's a case of whether or not those researchers not paid by drug co's will be willing to submit their research, good and/or bad ... I'm not worried about that, I can see them all just clambering for an honest and open platform for their voices to be heard.

    My concern is whether or not their research will be "accepted" for publishing! Hmmm?

    But with a Nobel prize winner on board, don't you think we stand more of a chance of having an ethical organization here?

    Or am I again being gullible and naive??? Man, am I trying so hard to find any half full cups amongst all this dirty, broken, shattered glass!

    PS - Is everyone just waiting with baited breath for the FDA to approve Eli Lilly's new AD Duloxetine? Now when did/does the Prozac patent expire again????!!!
    Their new drug, as I read, is just a Serzone and Remeron clone; reuptakes serotonin and norepinephrine. Only this new one is stronger, I guess it's a doosy. Just what we need. I can imagine the side effects.

    Yep, those cups are empty but maybe that website you mentioned plus the continued work of those Peter Breggins and Anne Tracy's of the world will fill them up a bit.

     
    Old 05-25-2004, 12:21 PM   #64
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jennita
    Their new drug, as I read, is just a Serzone and Remeron clone; reuptakes serotonin and norepinephrine. Only this new one is stronger, I guess it's a doosy. Just what we need. I can imagine the side effects.
    That makes no sense at all.

    Serzone and Remeron are completely different drugs. They are not even in the same class. Neither of them is an SSNRI (Serotonin & Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor).
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    Old 05-25-2004, 01:21 PM   #65
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    The articles I've read all compare it with Effexor (SNRI). But, naturally ... it's of course going to be far superior to Effexor in every way.

    Wouldn't it be something if the FDA rejects it?! Now wouldn't that just be something?!!! (Won't be holding my breath).

    PS - Take a look at docguide.com. Again - due to the masterminds behind the insidious marketing by Eli Lilly - this drug is truly magical. It works wonders for everything from depression to urinary incontinence to fibromyalgia, and on and on and on!

    COME ON, WORLD!!! WAKE UP!

    Last edited by Sandalla; 05-25-2004 at 01:37 PM.

     
    Old 05-25-2004, 03:46 PM   #66
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    Please help me. I dont react to medicines.

    I have been medicated since i was eleven. Even now that im 15 i sdont have a diagnosis. Its either "special" depression or bi-polar disorder. I have taken every antidepressant on the market. Ask me about any one, i can tell u all my side effects. My doctor suggested having electroshock therapy, will this help me?

     
    Old 05-26-2004, 12:14 PM   #67
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Crossbow
    That makes no sense at all.

    Serzone and Remeron are completely different drugs. They are not even in the same class. Neither of them is an SSNRI (Serotonin & Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor).
    Correction, Serzone and Effexor, although Serzone is considered weaker in reuptake so thus classed a blocker like Remeron of serotonin and norepinephrine instead of reuptaker.

    I also have to mention Serzone has created a new classification, being first in this new catagory of drugs, the DTEYL class, or the drugs that eat your liver class of fine pharmaceuticals.

    So the new, exciting drug EliLily is coming out with is really just an Effexor clone....only a heck of a lot stronger. Still think it will be a doozy in the side-effects department.

    Last edited by Jennita; 05-26-2004 at 12:22 PM.

     
    Old 05-26-2004, 12:32 PM   #68
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sandalla
    The articles I've read all compare it with Effexor (SNRI). But, naturally ... it's of course going to be far superior to Effexor in every way.

    Wouldn't it be something if the FDA rejects it?! Now wouldn't that just be something?!!! (Won't be holding my breath).

    PS - Take a look at docguide.com. Again - due to the masterminds behind the insidious marketing by Eli Lilly - this drug is truly magical. It works wonders for everything from depression to urinary incontinence to fibromyalgia, and on and on and on!

    COME ON, WORLD!!! WAKE UP!
    Of course the FDA will approve it, why, it cures everything according to their list! My goodness, finally, the magic bullet for all ills. Maybe they will find out it's an age-reverser.....sign me up if that's the case.

    Really, if it's just a stronger version of Effexor, they should be honest about that. THey tried to make Sarefem something more than Prozac but lo and behold, that's all it really was.

    I woke up, Sandella. Didn't like it, but it was necessary...sometimes, unpleasant revelations can be life-saving.

     
    Old 05-26-2004, 01:18 PM   #69
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Could you PLEASE let me know how you found this information. I can only take 1 or 2 g of the SSRI drugs or most meds. This may be my issues. My whole family is very sensitive to meds. I would love to read more or hear more from you on how to get tested for this

    THANKS SO MUCH!
    BYRDLEG

     
    Old 05-26-2004, 04:10 PM   #70
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    this was on the news that effexor prozac celexa and paxil was high in suedsidal tendencies and i believe it is true i was on a antideppressent that was working and another doctor put me on effexor for other reasons and i have never thought of killing myself until then why in the world would i think of that out of blue i may have health problems but i have 2 children and six grandchildren that are my life so i think there is alot of truth to it

     
    Old 05-26-2004, 07:49 PM   #71
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Byrdleg, I'm assuming you're referring to the liver enzyme theory. You'll find a ton of information by doing searches for "P450 CYP2D". Also go to antidepressantsfacts.com and do a search for "enzyme".

    Here, though, FYI is the essence of it ...

    The population can be classified into three phenotypes (signifying how an individual metabolizes a certain drug). Extensive Metabolism (EM) of a drug is characteristic of the normal population. Poor Metabolism (PM), is asssociated with the accumulation of specific drug substrates, and is typically an autosomol rcessive trait requiring mutation and/or deletion of the gene, while the third class comprises individuals with Ultraextensive Metabolism (UEM), resulting in increased drug metabolism, and is an autosomol dominant trait arising from gene amplification.
    For some classes of therapeutic agents (drugs), including the antidepressants/SSRIs, there is good evidence that genetic polymorphisms of drug metabolizing enzymes (in these cases, the CYP 2D6 enzyme), plays a significant role in adverse effects of the therapeutic agent, and even in an increased risk of exposure-linked cancer.
    Thus, determination of these genetic polymorphisms are of clinical vale in predicting adverse or inadequate response to the antidepressants/SSRIs, and in predicting increased risk of other disease.
    There is a relatively simple test to determine which class or phenotype an individual falls into. What is interesting to note is that most individuals are never tested to determine if they are EMs, PMs or UEMs.... We'd like to know why. If a PM is given a high dose of an SSRI such as Prozac, it is likely that the proper metabolism of this therapeutic agent will not take place. Thus, the drug can build to toxic levels.... Do you understand the significance of this?

    Now, as it so happens, I was at a new family physician today and when I mentioned this test to him, his response was "But so do we do this test on everybody? It's a very expensive test". I took a few very deep breaths, composed myself and replied very softly and gently, "Yes, are lives not very expensive too?"

    Sigh!

    Oh, and I should add that all this after he had told me that one of his patients made a suicide attempt whilst withdrawing from Paxil! He seemed to think it was due to her marital problems though!

    I simply let it go ... I'm getting tired now ... isn't this just so, so terribly sad?

     
    Old 05-26-2004, 08:19 PM   #72
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    Re: Please help me. I dont react to medicines.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sjuicyog
    I have been medicated since i was eleven. Even now that im 15 i sdont have a diagnosis. Its either "special" depression or bi-polar disorder. I have taken every antidepressant on the market. Ask me about any one, i can tell u all my side effects. My doctor suggested having electroshock therapy, will this help me?
    sjuicyog, you should start up a new thread with your question. I think it's going to get lost here.

    I know absolutely nothing about electroshock. All I can tell you, is that if you were my child, there is NO WAY IN HELL I would allow it. Keep on researching for every other possible alternative. FORCE yourself to go for daily walks, or do the sport you enjoy most. It gets those very important endorphins going in your brain, which is what makes you feel good. Hang out with happy, fun friends. Play loud happy music. Eat well, etc, etc. Go to a naturopath. Speak to your school counsellor.

    Do you have a pet? Do you like dogs? Dogs are wonderful, wonderful company and you can meet a lot of great friends by walking them. And they work wonders on the mood. Make sure you're able to handle the responsibility and love and care for it, though.

    DO EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING ELSE BESIDES PLAYING AROUND WITH YOUR BRAIN LIKE THAT. You're very young with your whole life ahead of you. If you're already researching on the computer, you're obviously a very bright kid. Keep on researching for natural ways.

    You also say you have been medicated for the last 4/5 years and you still don't have a diagnosis? ... maybe you need to be unmedicated for a while to get all those drugs out of your system to find out if you even need a diagnosis? Perhaps you're really just a normal teenager who goes through lots of ups and downs? You sound like a smart kid, get yourself undrugged and keep looking for healthy ways to feel good!

    I hope I've helped you a little. Start up a new thread of your own. And good luck!

    Last edited by Sandalla; 05-26-2004 at 08:35 PM.

     
    Old 05-27-2004, 10:40 AM   #73
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sandalla
    Byrdleg, I'm assuming you're referring to the liver enzyme theory. You'll find a ton of information by doing searches for "P450 CYP2D". Also go to antidepressantsfacts.com and do a search for "enzyme".

    Here, though, FYI is the essence of it ...

    The population can be classified into three phenotypes (signifying how an individual metabolizes a certain drug). Extensive Metabolism (EM) of a drug is characteristic of the normal population. Poor Metabolism (PM), is asssociated with the accumulation of specific drug substrates, and is typically an autosomol rcessive trait requiring mutation and/or deletion of the gene, while the third class comprises individuals with Ultraextensive Metabolism (UEM), resulting in increased drug metabolism, and is an autosomol dominant trait arising from gene amplification.
    For some classes of therapeutic agents (drugs), including the antidepressants/SSRIs, there is good evidence that genetic polymorphisms of drug metabolizing enzymes (in these cases, the CYP 2D6 enzyme), plays a significant role in adverse effects of the therapeutic agent, and even in an increased risk of exposure-linked cancer.
    Thus, determination of these genetic polymorphisms are of clinical vale in predicting adverse or inadequate response to the antidepressants/SSRIs, and in predicting increased risk of other disease.
    There is a relatively simple test to determine which class or phenotype an individual falls into. What is interesting to note is that most individuals are never tested to determine if they are EMs, PMs or UEMs.... We'd like to know why. If a PM is given a high dose of an SSRI such as Prozac, it is likely that the proper metabolism of this therapeutic agent will not take place. Thus, the drug can build to toxic levels.... Do you understand the significance of this?

    Now, as it so happens, I was at a new family physician today and when I mentioned this test to him, his response was "But so do we do this test on everybody? It's a very expensive test". I took a few very deep breaths, composed myself and replied very softly and gently, "Yes, are lives not very expensive too?"

    Sigh!

    Oh, and I should add that all this after he had told me that one of his patients made a suicide attempt whilst withdrawing from Paxil! He seemed to think it was due to her marital problems though!

    I simply let it go ... I'm getting tired now ... isn't this just so, so terribly sad?
    Ha Ha....just like a man to think a woman would kill herself over a marriage...if that's the case, with the rate of divorce in this country, women would be dropping like flies.

    Yes, men and women alike have off-ed themselves because of marriage breakup, but it isn't that often so should not be assumed, especially if other factors, like suicidal-inducing drugs, are in the picture.

    But I get you....sometimes it does get tiring! I just can't believe the cost of a test that could be life-saving was his only defense on that other issue.

     
    Old 05-27-2004, 10:55 AM   #74
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    Re: Please help me. I dont react to medicines.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sjuicyog
    I have been medicated since i was eleven. Even now that im 15 i sdont have a diagnosis. Its either "special" depression or bi-polar disorder. I have taken every antidepressant on the market. Ask me about any one, i can tell u all my side effects. My doctor suggested having electroshock therapy, will this help me?
    I also don't know alot about it, except that it is induced seizures and is actually brain damaging. I can't say if killing of brain cells is a cure for anything; some people say they were not helped by it, some claim they were. I just wonder if it's placebo effect, since electroshock is considered the big mama of all treatments....thus I imagine a person would go into it thinking "cured for sure".

    Best to really look into the whole thing carefully. Don't think I'd do it, but it's your choice. Antidepressants loose their effectiveness over time(tolerance) and new studies have found some evidence of serotonin cell damage over long term usage. If you are truly bi-polar, I've read antidepressants are not good because they trigger mania(even in non-bi-polar people too but especially in bi-polar).

    Examining life-style, life problems, diet, chemical intake, getting a full physical, etc. may unlock some keys as to what's causing whatever symptoms you might have. Sometimes the answer is there, but usually the typical thing these days to do is not look, but rather attempt to medicate or shock the problem without finding the source first.

     
    Old 06-05-2004, 10:14 PM   #75
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    Re: Effexor Nightmare - Please Read

    I stumbled across a very, VERY interesting website(s). There's an absolute ton of information about various health ailments and the author's philosophical AND very educated views and opinions and theories.

    A year or so ago, I would have thought this guy was off his rocker. Now, having gone through everything I've been through ... I've done a complete 180 ... I am so anti-drug of any kind at all, and so disillusioned and disgusted with the ugly truth behind what the innocents of the world faithfully believe is genuine "research" and "medicine"!

    And to think of everyone donating money for medical research? And what happens to that money anyway. What a truly shabby state of affairs.

    I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this gentleman's ideas. I personally find them fascinating, inspiring, thought-provoking and very, very credible.

    Do a search for Karl Loren and oral chelation.

     
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