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Man Apart 06-08-2004 05:12 PM

Re: From Man Apart.............To Geena and anyone else who cares.
Sgibson, welcome back, thanks for your advice. It is very much appreciated. I was concerned about alot of different issues. I wondered if I could book a flight in advance before I was able to save the money and if I could cancel a month or so in advance if I wasnt going to be able to make it. Also I do not have a credit card. I never have, I have no credit history whatsoever. The one time I tried to apply for a visa they emphatically turned me down. I just hope that will not become a issue. I checked into maybe leaving from Nashville or Little Rock Arkansas or any other major city near me but the scenario wasnt much different. I ultimately have to make 3 or 4 stops before i get to her city. The connecting flights issue is a concern. Because I know I would have to fly to Hong Kong or Tokyo to get to Manila, and then to Cagayan de oro. Im not sure if there are direct flights from L.A. or San Fran to Manila. If I land in Hong Kong, how the heck am I going to get to my next flight lol. Ahhh I am so ignorant. I know someone will explain it to me. Im fortunate that a very significant portion of the population in the philippines speak english though.

Of course I want to go very soon but Im being reasonably patient and realistic with my timeline. 4-5 months seem reasonable, 7-8 would be very tough. Thats the main reason im going to get a 2nd job, because I know myself all too well, because my worst enemy is my patience. I know at any point I can breakdown from it all.

I don't feel we got off on the wrong foot. Learning about you and your marriage and you family was very intriguing and helpful. If I said anything to you that was hurtful I am deeply sorry. The last thing I wanted you to do was be discouraged from posting to me. I know I can be defiant and stubborn. But I welcome the opinions of anyone. You are way off base in thinking you contributed to my depression by posting your thoughts and opinion. But I can say you may have contributed a lil bit by leaving. There is only one favor I ask and that is to not deter your opinions and your kindness from my threads. If you ever have something to say, please feel free. I cant speak for Enoch. It was not my intent for there to be a argument induced. But I really apologize. There is no good or bad or right or wrong, we learn from each other because we all see the paintings on the wall differently.

sherry47 06-08-2004 07:53 PM

Re: From Man Apart.............To Geena and anyone else who cares.
Man Apart,

I'm glad we are ok. Now let's just agree not to mention it again. :)

Ok, I'll see if I can help here. (And if I'm wrong, someone please correct me, I'm just going by my experience here) Ok, about the credit card thing, I'm pretty sure you have to have a credit card to reserve the tickets in advance. But all is not lost if you don't have one yet. I think you should check into getting a secured Visa. It will serve more than one purpose. You are going to need it to book your flight and it will help you to establish a credit history. You simply make deposits into a "savings account" which secures the credit line. The more you deposit, the more your credit line. Your credit line is equal to the amount of your deposit. Eventually, after you have established a credit history with the company, they will start giving you increases above your deposit balance. I don't know who you applied to for your credit card, but there are companies whose credit requirements are not as stringent as others. Capital one and cross country bank are two that come to mind right off hand. Of course, the interest rates are higher but like I said earlier, if you can still apply that 100 dollars a week then it really wouldn't make too much difference. I would give them a try, all they can do is say no. And, if they say no, then go with the deposit type cards. And, if all of that falls through and you still need a card to book your flight, open a checking account with a bank that utilizes Visa check cards. They work just like checks but are accepted anywhere Visa is accepted. The money just comes straight out of your checking account. See, I told you, where there is a will there is a way. :)

I figured the connecting flights would cause some anxiety for you. I know this because although I travel regularly, and have since childhood, I have severe anxiety over connecting flights. I think it's just the fear of the unknown, but trust me, if I can overcome my anxiety about it, you can too. Like I said in my earlier post, I have found that making sure I have plenty of time between my connecting flights helps to ease that anxiety. It gives you the time to find where you need to be and if your flight is delayed, you don't have to worry about missing your next flight and having to go through the anxiety of switching yet again.

As far as how you are going to figure out what to do in Hong Kong, I'm sure there are airline personnel that speak English. I have never been to Hong Kong, but I have been in French and German airports and never had any problems. After all, next to Mandarin Chinese, English is the next most spoken language in the world.

As far as the second job, I think it's a good idea. It will help things go along a lot faster. It of course will make it easier working the second job knowing that it's for such a good reason. I know it will be hard at times, but try not to doubt the fact that you can do this. It is normal to be nervous about traveling out of the country for the first time. I'd be worried if you weren't nervous about it. Just be prepared. Have the information you need and you will be fine. I, for one, am extremely proud of you for doing this. In fact, I envy you. :) I'd love to be able to travel again. With the exception of flights to florida every now and then, my traveling days are pretty much over now. With my health problems and now my resulting financial strains, I won't be taking any flights any time in the near future.

Well, if you need anything, I will try to help. I'd better be going now, took my oxy and I am gonna try to go get some sleep.

God Bless,
Sherry :wave:

By the way, this girl sounds like a real gem, a keeper. Do what you have to. Don't let others stand in your way of being happy. You do deserve it.

RPMcCalip 06-09-2004 12:54 AM

Re: From Man Apart.............To Geena and anyone else who cares.
Hey Man Apart, have you considered trying to get a job at the airport there in Memphis? My dad got his job right out of HS when he was 18 or 19. Plus if you got a job as a bagger you could get some exercise in the summer heat while making money. I know it's a long shot but you don't have anything to lose by at least applying. If you did get the job obviously you would get a free ticket, which would solve your problem, and you could go right away, and you could go out an visit her once a month if you wanted, and you could get a significant discount on tix for her if she wanted to come here. I don't know how big the airport there in MEmphis is, but I'm sure they have lots of different airlines that you could apply to. Since 9-11 it's much harder to get airport jobs obviously because the airlines aren't doing very well financially, but I'm sure they still hire occasionally. And like I said, even though it's a long shot there's a big upside and virtually no downside except a few wasted hours.

Man Apart 06-09-2004 07:23 AM

Re: From Man Apart.............To Geena and anyone else who cares.
Im in such a overwhelming negative mood and frame of mind right now. I know it may be temporary but, my anxiety level has returned to a uncomfortable level of tolerance. You know the more and more I look into the broad aspects of this trip the more obstacles I see mounting up before me. Just like a huge wall being built in front of me. I have to get a passport, i have to get 300 dollars worth of shots, I have to get another small job, gotta apply for a credit card, gotta lose 50lbs, gotta see a dermotalogist, etc. Im not really worried about anything except the job search. Thats the key to everything really. And whenever I find myself looking for a job, my depression and anxiety goes into overdrive. I think whenever I try to do something out of my boundary that would be beneficial to my life, I seem to realize and be reminded of some many things about myself. Its discouraging to never have had a credit card or any credit history at 26. Yesterday I went through the newspaper and online to look for a job, spent pretty much 5 hours doing so and making calls. I called 27 different companies, drove to 2 because it was required to apply in person, even called a church of all places. I admittedly turned down 4 places because the hours and work enviorment was not what I was looking for. I had a big full bucket of motivation like you wouldnt believe before yesterday, Im so demoralized right now its not even funny. Noone hiring. Ok well why do you have a AD in the PAPER! I know that somehow some way there is just something about me that repulse people or discourage them for hiring me. Whether im ugly or im overweight or because im black, or I dont have much of a job history or I seem unintelligent. I dunno, but there seems to be no way to overcome it. Its like getting out of prison trying to find a job. And It just really depressed me to no end just realizing how pathetic I am. :'( Ive never done anything other than maintenance/janitorial/car detailing work. I have always been self employed mainly due to my depression and a severe social anxiety illness that is probably the worst part of my life right now. Pretty much all the connections I have were made with my fathers help. Losing the auto parts job was even more significant than I realized then.

This is one of the main reasons why I hate myself so extremely much. I have the mental compacity of a 7 year old child. Everything is foreign language to me. I swear its like ive been in prison the last 10 years of my life, it isnt any difference, other than a high school dimploma I have nothing. I am a complete nothing. There are people I know who can find a job in a day. I cant find a job to literally save my life. And I just hate that feeling that things seem so impossible to me. Id love to learn but Ive never had anyone to teach me. I didnt know how to do laundry til i was like 17, i didnt get my drivers license until I was 20. First savings account when i was 22. The only actual real job I ever had was the auto parts job a month or so ago that my father work so hard to get me and I squandered it. Depression has destroyed me from the inside out. Stunted my growth mentally and physically.

I know a guy who suffers from a sleeping disorder. He told me he wanted so badly to go to college and make something of himself, but he would go to school and could not stay awake in class. They even put him on some kind of machine I think, but no matter how hard he tried he would fall asleep in a span of 10 mins. He couldnt focus or learn anything. And he told me its so unfair. Now he is living off of a 150 dollar a week disability check. He just said to me its unfair to not have the ability to better your life. Not have the answers to yourself. I told him I have the same problem. I can barely walk into stores much less a classroom. I spent yeeeaaarrsss trying to fix myself and I only got worst. The scariest thing in the world is not having the answers and not having the control. Not having the ability to better your own life.

I know Im in a severely bad frame of mind right now. After yesterday I cant seem to help it, I cant sleep and ive been eating like a mad man because the anti-depressants im on have absolutely no affect execpt for the occasional nausea. Ive been crying all morning. And I really layed in bed and thought hard about whether or not this is even realistic. She cant depend on me. I cant even depend on myself. But if I dont pursue this I know how its going to end. But Id rather die than to dissapoint her. I love her so much. But I dont know what to do. Its beginning to feel like a pipe dream. I have nothing else though. I spent years and years trying to fix myself mentaly, trying to overcome my illness, I only got worse. It only took one person to make me feel like I actually mattered and feel like im alive and give me something worth living for. I guess the question is, is the damage already done. Is it too late. Is there nothing else that can save me now. Maybe yesterday that question was answered. It took 5 hours for all encoouraging, positive, motivating feelings and the determined attitude I had to just be totally wiped out by rejection. Rejection. That word has become far too common to me. A better life just seems impossible.

sherry47 06-09-2004 09:09 AM

Re: From Man Apart.............To Geena and anyone else who cares.
Man Apart,

Let me start by saying you do NOT have the mental capacity of a seven year old. You can tell more about a person by something they have written than talking to them for an hour. Your posts show much about you. For the most part your posts are grammatically correct, few misspelled words, and a clear thought process. It is evident you are an intelligent person. You know, intelligence has nothing to do with learning abilities. There are people with genius IQ's who have severe learning disabilities. It doesn't mean they are stupid, it just means they learn differently from the norm. It's true that some of the time, ok, a lot of the time, they are labeled or treated as though they aren't capable of learning. I think you are an intelligent person who has had people discouraging you for so long that you have begun to believe it. Don't buy into it. You are capable.

I'm sorry the job search isn't going like you would like. It's not just you that has a hard time finding a job. I think you should make a list (only for yourself) outlining what you want in a job, and the least amount of pay you will accept. The next thing you need to do is make a list of all of your capabilities. You are obviously computer literate, why not check into data entry or something in that field. Your communication skills are more than adequate for dispatcher work. Lastly, decide how important this is to you, and if it is worth it, accept something that is beneath you. It is after all only temporary. Look at it as a means to an end.

This is probably none of my business, but have you applied for disability? (I really don't expect you to give me an answer to that question, it was just to let you know that could be a possibility for you.)

About losing 50 pounds, I think that should be the least of your concerns at this point. Of course you should strive to keep your body physically healthy but I wouldn't focus too much on numbers. Focus on getting healthy.

You are a good person who has just had a lot of bad things happen. Bad things do happen to good people. It doesn't define who you are.

Have you had your meds checked lately? Perhaps you should schedule an appointment to see your doctor.

Good luck.

God Bless,
Sherry :wave:

Man Apart 06-09-2004 05:36 PM

Re: From Man Apart.............To Geena and anyone else who cares.
Hey Sherry, thanks for your encouraging words. I try to feed off of the optimism, when it is present. Ill admit onething about today. I did get up off my butt, shaved, took a bath, dug up some clean clothes and went out and attempted to apply for 2 jobs in person after the abismal 5 hours of phone calling. That took alot but I dont really give myself too much credit for something that is simple to so many people. Im not patting myself on the back. I never do. I am very capable. I kind of realize that to a certain extent. But having all the potential in the world means nothing if you lack the confidence for fulfill it. My mind is damaged. As a person I am damaged.

The list of my capabilities is very short. Anything I search for will be beneath me in one way or another. But I am savy with the computer.... Somewhat. But Im not even really sure what data entry is and Im afraid I should at this point if Im going to look into it as a job. This is without doubt the most important thing in my life. I would scrub toilets to be with her. To have a life. It would definitely weight heavily on my self esteem and definitely make me feel even more worthless than I do now but it certainly wouldnt matter the moment I have her in my arms. Nothing else would matter.

I cant apply for disability. I wouldnt be accepted. But even so I wouldnt want it. I dont want to think along the lines of having to accept my disability as me being permenantly disabled. Even after ten years of suffering, I still feel I can somewhat overcome it. I dont think its impossible. But sometimes even if there is a possiblity in something, you can still lose all hope. Just like if you have a rubiks cube. You know there is a way to match all of the sides. So you twist and turn, twist and turn, twist and turn, and you realized your no further to matching the sides than when you started. So what do you do at that point. When you twisted and turned every way in life. When you dont catch a break, or you cant figure out what pattern to turn, or what to do, youll just be twisting and turning your entire life.

Because a significant part of my depression is partly due to my physical looks, my desire to improve myself physically is without doubt of the utmost of importance. Im not getting on that plane unless I feel better about how I look. All of the pictures ive sent her was when I was slimmer. Except for one or two. Even if she does accept the way I am now, I still cant. I just dont want to be overweight anymore. Ill always be ugly and black and thats just a cruel curse from God. But at least I dont have to have 3 strikes against me and live overweight.

Bad things do happen to good people. Thats why good people turn bad. But good things should happen as well. In my life its too one-sided. Its just the fact that everything is bad seemingly is what I cant accept. I look at every single aspect of my life and I cant say that much about my life is good. The world defines you. You dont define yourself. The world will lets you know who you are and if your special, or handsome, or beautiful, smart, or talented, or even worthy of mention. Theres no way around it. I cant change the world. I cant change me.

enoch 06-09-2004 05:53 PM

Re: From Man Apart.............To Geena and anyone else who cares.
keep the things sherry says in mind - man apart of course your going to try and talk yourself out of this - perhaps if you clue your therapist in on it and tell what you are trying to do they will provide you with a benzo - you can travel with meds anywhere as long as you keep them in the bottles they came in - which has the phone number of who gave them to you - so anybody can call and confirm they are your legal meds given to you by a doctor. in the time you have you can be researching sites about the phillipines where you can find accounts from others who have posted their experiences. in traveling you will find many who will help you - just don't take you wallet out if someone asks you to break a five or ten.. money belt or ankle pouch are optional - think plastic.. being you have lived in the city you know enough not to trust strangers who are all buddy buddy too quick and to not get off the beatin path - when you do all you can do is look as mean as you can and keep going till you see a friendly face. so start practicing your mean face in the mirror and don't laugh too much.. maybe a few words learned in the language would help you - things like " I am a stupid american who is lost with lots of cash in his pocket" should probably be bypassed.. but the word for phone - please - thank you taxi would be good to know - and remember lots of catholics in phillipines so a few good our fathers and hail marys and maybe a good act of contrition wouldn't hurt either - you see I joke - the thing here is the adventure - its about the adventure not seeing it like a weight thats going to fall on you - in new orleans once I had to be carried from the plane - double shots of 151 in the pina coladas at the san juan airport will take its toll- ya they carried me to the bar at the new orleans airport - that was in the old days before anyone knew the word enabler.. lol - I had another rum and stumbled onwards to gulfport mississippi. to my new duty station where I got "I should write you up sailor for not traveling in uniform" which got a response of puke all over that master at arms quarter deck - he didn't write me up he just wanted me out the door.. I made alot of friends that night as I did pull ups on the toilet all night - sleeping from time to time in the open stall bathroom of the old old barracks - faces looking at me asking if I needed a soda - for awhile after than my nickname was ralph... so you see people come forth with kindness from many directions and this trip you will take will show you about that because you will have to depend alot on others and it takes you out of your comfort zone and everything you now know.. and all those things you said about being a loser - well after this you will have a grand story to tell good or bad and an adventure not many others have lived - you know through watching you and listening to you - many others are asking themself about the possibility of an adventure in their own lives - something to change something about the rut.
god bless you that your trying to actually do it. I see a lot of people here sending you cards of encouragement. so have the bad days but stick to the plan - your only human - your doing the best that you can. who cares how straight the path is as long as you get there in the end..

Man Apart 06-10-2004 02:58 PM

Re: From Man Apart.............To Geena and anyone else who cares.
I'm not trying to talk myself out of this. I want to believe in this. Two weeks ago it seemed like a amazing idea at the time. Now that I see how high the mountain is, Im walking up this thing and occasionally stopping, looking up and sratching my head. I dont have any boots, rope, gears, backpack, climbing equipment. How the hell do I get up there? Just like what my situation is. I dont have much money I can save a week. I dont have a passport, or a credit card, or experience booking, making flights, travelling, or getting information. *sigh*..... I just..... I think the aftermath of the last couple days is still wearing heavy on my psyche. Finding another small job is the big challenge. Its funny, cos i only need another 50 or 100 a week and Id be sitting pretty. (Banging my head against my desk.) If only I could have kept that job Id be in such a good frame of mind and mood. (bang..bang.....bang......bang.) If i knew then what I know now I would have pushed myself to keep that job. I basically forced them to fire me because of my depression and I was under so much stress. When I lost the job It didnt phase me much. Now its killing me. (bang...... bang....... bang...... bang).

I know something will pop up soon. But it doesnt stop me from worrying today, and tomorrow and the next day. My mind is going through a heavy influx of scattered thoughs, memories, and preminitions. Some good, most bad, some disturbing. I cant describe the feeling I get each time I drive to work now and I hear a plane flying over head. Or when Im walking outside and I see a plane piercing through the dark sky. My eyes become fixated. I cant tell if the feeling is good or bad. Its like determination, hope, anxiety, and depression mixed all into one. Just like the sad face and eyes of a puppy dog looking up at the dinner table watching the family eat steaks, whimpering, wishing he could just have a taste.If I didnt believe in God before I should start believing now and pray I can do this.

Oh Enoch you were a bad boy. Its funny how attractive you become to people when you make a complete fool of yourself. People are attracted to wild behavior. Its edgy and exhilarating. Another aspect of human nature I dislike. Enoch Gone Wild. Now everyone wants to be your friend. Im sure if I go drink way too many beers, smoke some weed, and drive twice the speed limit all while blurting out drunken slurs to random people so I can make my friends laugh, Id have many more friends, and be way more popular. When did toilet puking become cool? Hmm, Id have a life. I should look into that.

This experience WILL be good. No chance will it be bad. Nothing can be worst than what my life is now. I can hear every plane in the sky. I have her picture sitting on my desk. I stare at her picture constantly. With my sad puppy dog eyes. I want to be with her so badly. Ill try to learn a few words before I get there. The first of which Ill probably be shouting when I get off the plane.... Where are you Roselyn?

enoch 06-10-2004 03:45 PM

Re: From Man Apart.............To Geena and anyone else who cares.
well man apart I don't know what is cool or what is not - maybe I run 24 hour cycles with the the bi polar.. friends? life is better when there is support from others however you can find it - now I guess you have figured out I go both ways - deep philosophical (I've done the homework) rhetoric or doing pull ups to puke out nonsense - near as I can figure one size does not fit all - point here is helping is a good thing - what ever it takes to help - serious or foolish - did you not know god will even use a fool to teach a king - and sometimes he has kings serve fools.

the passport is the easy thing - the cheap thing - you should get it as soon as possible and then leave it where you can see it all the time - it will be encouragement - to see your mugshot in it - to be able to touch it - it represents the whole thing..

sherry47 06-10-2004 05:10 PM

Re: From Man Apart.............To Geena and anyone else who cares.
Man Apart,

This will be short as I am fighting my own depression and pain right now. I just wanted to elaborate a little on the data entry type positions.

Maybe you should check with a temp agency. For instance, there are jobs such as dipatching transport vehicles. You basically sit at the computer and take calls from people who need to arrange transport for patients (to and from different hospitals). All you have to do is take the call, and dispatch transport. Enter the information into the computer and voila. There are all types of data entry positions. There are also police and emergency dispatchers. You get the picture. Since you are in a large city, check with some temp agencies. Let them know your computer qualifications. They can set you up with temp positions. Sometimes those temp positions turn into permanent offers. You may find something you enjoy.

There is also something else you may be interested in. I'm not sure its a good idea or not but anyway, my cousin works for a company that has people call and evaluate all different types of hospitals and treatment facilities. You are given a call sheet with the places names and numbers of where you are supposed to call. You have a script which you use. You pretend to have any of numerous conditions or problems. You don't deviate from the script and you don't let them know your call is just an evaluation. There are all types of scenarios. It's something you do from home. The company tells you which hospital to call on what day and at what time. They usually give you shifts. One major thing is you cannot have an accent. They don't want the hospitals to know if the call is not being generated from their area. For example, someone with a deep southern accent calling a New York hospital.

Enoch's idea about getting your passport and using it as inspiration is an excellent idea. I would get that passport asap.

Good Luck,

Man Apart 06-10-2004 05:12 PM

Re: From Man Apart.............To Geena and anyone else who cares.
No matter how long or how hard people strive. No matter how extensive their education as a species. No matter how much people experience the small heavens and the larger hells they create for themselves. It seems that people are always destined to see their technological, material, sexual, and finacial accomplishments exceed their ability to understand themselves.

My mind is devestated. I cant seem to let go of the fact that there are people out their living too easy and people out their suffering. The world is so beautiful, yet so ugly. Its too much for my heart to take and for my mind to understand. So many beautiful people. Yet im so ugly. So many happy people, yet im sad. So many active people, yet im bound. The complete destruction of my mind, dignity, self worth, and my entire being, was a imposing piece of work. Now im just left wailing in despair. A once splendid mind, torn apart. Piece by piece. Now reduced to waste and ruin. The way darkness imposed itself on me with such forcefulness and brutality is stunning. Lets give the shadow of darkness a standing ovation. You know how when you eat something that doesnt agree with you, your body rejects it. Spits it right out. Im like that rotten egg born into a world that rejects me. I wish I could be spat back into limbo. I have a genuine purpose beyond a need to merely exist. I cant live a unfulfilled, ordinary, sad, worthless life.

Forgive me if I feel my existence is a tragedy worse than death itself. To me it just is. A few months ago I was begging for death. As someone once told me, its just life, its your fate, deal with it. Actually Id rather not. Because life isnt worth it. There are things bigger than life.... Death. All my life Ive lived in ugliness. Its like walking past someone whose disabled or, a burn victim or someone blind. A person would say to themselves, its so sad. Cos theyre living life on a different stratosphere. How can someone accept it. I greatly envy a person who accepts it. I would love for someone to tell me how they can manage to live happy and fulfilled. How can a blind man love happy spending his entire life wishing he could see. Or a short person wishing they were tall. A disabled person wishing they could walk. A burn victim wishing they could for one night walk in the daylight without having to conceal their scars. A obese man wishing he could be slim. A black man wishing he could be white. A lonley man wishing he could have love. A ugly man wishing he could be handsome. A frog wishing he could be a Prince. A living man wishing he could be dead. In any aspect of someones life theyre prone to do whatever it takes to chase down the one thing that will bring peace to their existence. Whether its a person living in the cold all their life looking for warm weather. A poor person looking for finacial stability. A lonely person looking for friends. There is always that one thing, or even several things in a persons life, whether big or small, that has been imposed on that person to the point that it burdens them relentlessly. And has become a significant aspect in the person being unhappy. In my case its simply because Ive had to spend my entire life being a extremely ugly, physically unattractive man. It has ruined my life. It would ruin anyones life. So of course, its only natural, its only human nature, instincts, and a burning desire for me to find something beautiful in this world and attach myself to it since I can never be beautiful myself. To have something beautiful in my life, to counter the ugly a** life I live.

In the bible it said(paraphrasing), "If the world hates you, remember it hated me before it hated you." Thats a really interesting thing to read. But Im not surprised. I'm glad they hated him like they hate me. So you can suffer the wraith of your own failed creation. I think its time for another tidal wave, or ice age or something. Back to the drawing board. I know I have alot of built up anomosity towards God. Forgive me. I guess Im not the apple of his eye. It has no love for me, I have no love for it.

enoch 06-11-2004 09:32 AM

Re: From Man Apart.............To Geena and anyone else who cares.
wow let me get my frigging night goggles on in here - oh hi man apart sorry I didn't see you sitting in that chair waiting in the dark.. lets do a few chess moves here. the key to your place in space at the moment is god. the denial the fighting the intellectual reasoning are all part of your heaviness in this matter - you fight god - you are of jacobs ladder material - god could have just zapped jacob to show him who he was but no - he came down and wrestled jacob in a fair fight on equal terms - and so it is with you since god has given you and all of us freewill - but some of us he does zap - you think its a long drawn out grudge match but in the end you look back and realize you got zapped - in your own mind you measure the worth of your life - you attach in logical way all the things you have seen not only in your miseries but all the miseries of a world that is filled with so many slobs running the show. I do not mean slobs running around with food stains on their shirts or skirts I mean slobs who step on other people to get where they are going - those who have one ambition and that is to serve their own egos on their quest for self importance and achievement. those are the slobs that run this world - as you yourself said - jesus said to hate the world - by this it seems he meant do not take your value of self from the world but rather rely on the spirit within - but if you cut that off in fighting god - in using the mind and education and wisdom of the world you are not letting the spiritual side of wisdom snap into place like a leggo in you life and allowing it to open you wisdom in metaphysical ways. result being your stuck - stranded on the playing field of slobs. and what kind of place is that when someone such as yourself already sees past the pretense of origins involved in that. what is the golden rule of slobs? "he who owns the most gold rules" - now that don't seem to be your quest although currently the gold would help you in the journey to the 7000 islands known as the phillipines - but at heart the things most needed is the spiritual gold that godship will bring - to power man apart as he moves forth - not just on that journey but daily as you open your eyes and breathe - is it not so? and while god will not automatically lift you out of depression and sorrows with a conversion in your heart you willl fine the steps feel different because the mind does not have to try and think its way out of the dungeon of despair - it becomes easier once you can feel the involvement of the force called god and the helper the spirit.. why? I do not know - I only know it is so. in retracing events in the bible clearly it is seen that many of gods chosen were by today standards mucked up individuals who today would reside in mental institutions with labels of schizophrenia and bi polar duck taped onto their foreheads. yet god used them to sway entire population outlooks and get the masses back in line. the thing that is difficult is when your staring into the face of god and your so serious - so serious about how you feel and what you know within your own self and hes just standing there with you and will not leave no matter what your saying or what logic your using and worse off when you tell him how much you hate him he reaches out with a hand to rest on your shoulder.
and you don't even want him to touch you but finally you realize you have backed away so much your now against a wall and there is no place left to go. freewill does not mean he will get out of your face because you have told him to - freewill works both ways I guess and god has freewill to play each moment as he wants - like you. as you have mentioned it few times I understand you love your father although he has let you down - and it someways it sounds like this is how you feel about god himself only in this case your not dealing with flesh and blood but against the metaphysical interpretations and principalities of what god is - and since it seems to be vague or distant you can say hate or you can say he don't exist and not have to think of a face like in the case of your earth father who you remember in other ways besides how he sinned. but god has a face that does come to your spirit yet to explain it would be impossible because it is not face like a human face - it has no form or shape or things that tell you what it is - but yet - you come to know the feel and and flavor of it as a face - and once loved it is always loved in some way no matter what the future brings to you. and by design the love you give the face is what seasons it for you - gives it shape in your own life -is the one god that becomes your own personal god in your daily chugging down all that this nasty world brings you.. I seen it - your energies are quite fantastic in how much your fighting god - although he makes his love for you apparent in all the people that post to you - even if they themselves don't know it - you see that - logic must tell you that - why are all these people concerned for me? why? who are they? where did they come from? and why me? how smashed up against the wall are you? isn't there a movie out right now called somethings got to give? you feel that don't you? death? of body or ego man apart? conversion is for those that have run hard and long from god - conversion is when your tired - dead tired of your own spew.
here let me hand these night goggles back to you now buddy - how much longer you going to bang around in here anyway? in the mean time god is really right in here with you - he don't mind the dark at all since he always carries his own light with him where ever he goes.

Man Apart 06-11-2004 09:20 PM

Re: From Man Apart.............To Geena and anyone else who cares.
Enoch. I wouldnt wander around in here too long, cos then youll forget the way you came in and spend your life trying to find a way out. Just like me. Theres no waiting really. People in hell dont wait for a drink of water. Im not really waiting for the light switch to come on. Everything is just blind hope. I know your suppose to believe in God during the good times and bad. But would it be wrong of me if I did once something good actually happened. Would I be a hypocrite if I decided to start my God fearing the moment I have something good in my life finally. Cos thats all I ask. Is just a lil nightlite to have next to me, so I wont always be afraid. Just one thing to make life worth it.

Talking in the spiritual realm is so out of character to me. But for some reason when you talk I listen. Ill keep a open mind, Ill at least try. I need to know one thing from you though. At what point of your life did you start believing so strongly? Was it from the start. When you was young. Was it from a life changing experience. Was it simply from the book. Or do you really feel something beyond flesh and blood. Or maybe it was at the point where you got a lil too old for playing around. Maybe you got to a age where sin city was a little to fast for you to live. I see it in so many people. Time they hit a certain age or point in life when things change, theyre not so popular, theyre not so beautiful anymore, theyre not so young, the partying, drinking, bed hopping, has caught up with them and they have nothing left to stand on, no identity, so its time to dress your soul appropriately. A little too old for the clubs. Now you wanna go to church. A little less sexually active. Now you want to settle down. Find another lifestyle. Grow up, have kids, then do your best to try to teach them to not do all the things you did in life.

Everyone would love a clue to what the meaning of life is. I stopped asking the question and just made a choice to believe, there really isnt one. Slobs inherited the earth. They have no choice. Cos if there is a meaning to life it would be survival. The world is one big jungle. You have the mighty, the fast, the strong, the beautiful, the smart, the resourceful, the clever, small, the weak, the ugly, the predators, the prey. Just like I said before. We conquer each other. We use what ever we have to survive. To carry us through life. Whether its our beautiful or our athletic abilities, or our intellect, or resourcefulness. You are what your born to be. Once you get to a certain point in life youll realize what your place is. Whether you strong enough to do this, athletic enough to be that, beautiful enough to be on tv, clever enough to do this or that, strong enough to survive.

God shouldnt punish me because I dont like my place in the jungle. I dont mind being the lil rat crawling around. But why does the entire jungle hate me, chase me, laugh at me. Why cant I be appreciated, respected, loved. Why doesnt anyone think im beautiful or interesting. Why cant I be on display at a Zoo. Nah, they just use me for lab tests. The Lions are too precious. The birds are too beautiful. So I just hide. In my little hole. In the darkness. Cos the world wasnt meant for me to walk freely. To feel proud. To feel worthy. To feel strong. To be happy. Enoch its just different. I cant explain it to anyone, I just know it deep down. Im that big fat rat. Have no choice but to sit in my little whole and watch the lions, tigers and bears wander around, fearlessly, beautiful, strong. Its hard. When your born into a world and you just have nothing. No strengths. Many many weaknesses. I have no gifts. Im not blessed. So why should I live for God.

I care very very very little about life and this world. But I think I found a reason enough to stick around. You know the worst thing about me right now is that I feel myself changing. Growing into something very unpleasant. Its kind of gone beyond just envy and resentment and anymosity. Maybe ill get into it more later but, Im reluctant to even want to tap into it. Buts its not really who I am, it was jus the way my mind was driven. Because if you dont accept the role, thats when life gets complicated. I guess im a glitch. Then your mind goes way off course. You just become lost. Dont know what to believe, who to believe, why to believe, how to live, or even why I should live.

Your right. Cant compete on this playing field. Whether its cos im not smart enough, or ruthless enough, or handsome enough, or athletic, or bright, or strong enough. If I only just had one. lol. Some people have em all. But if I only was born with one. One strength. If only i had a handsome face. Or maybe just be a straight A type student. Or maybe just stronger emotionally, or maybe be good enough to play basketball, or anything that would and could apply to this life, this world. Something of substance. Why else do people try to strengthen their spirit, if not to strengthen themselves in the physical realm.

Oh by the way, I never said I hate God. I only hate myself. I hate the concept of life. I hate human nature. Like the slang goes, dont hate the player, hate the game. So I cant hate people for being, human. Yes, I love my father. Even though he still lies, cheats, carry only a sexual relationship with my sister, all while pretending to be a holy man. Cos for all his sin, and lies, I cant deny the fact that he sacrificed so much for me, he did so much for me, he never taught me anything, but he was always someone I could depend on in the way that matter. Hes a very poor husband, but he is a good father. Ive let him down more than hes let me down. I dont compare it to god in any way. Im fortunate in a way to have my father. Im not a big fan of his genetics, and I certainly didnt inherit his strengths, but there are times Ive felt his love.

The only thing about Gods love thats apparent to me is that the only people that ever claim to love me or show love to me throughout my life and now, are very distant. The friends on this board that live miles away from me. The only girl ever in my life that says she loves me is on the other side of the world. I see God as the same way. He may love me, but its distant. Hes too busy hovering over his beautiful lions. I think the reason why Im so stressed out and depressed is because deep down I know im never going to experience love close to me. Im never going to see her. Im never getting on a plane. Im never going to have anyone in my life. It feels good to pretend, to put money in the bank, to hope, believe and strive. But I know there will never be "that day." It never really comes. Thats why they call it pursuit of happiness, you never really find it. I love her more than anything could ever be loved. Ill entertain this dream. Try to get a jump start across the rainbow before it dissipates from under me. But this time when I fall tot he ground Ill just smile in pain, and close my eyes before the next rainbow forms. My eyes will never open again. Cos I just know. Ill never have close friends. Just distant. I know that this is the only way I can have friends. The only way I can meet anyone. I always tell Gena if I met her at a park somewhere she would grab her kids and run. Samething with Mermaid, same with you, same with everyone. Ive had too many people in my life prove that to me. But its still good to be loved and excepted, even in this setting.

Id rather be a happy slob at this point. Im not a good person. My life wouldnt be this way if i was. Im not evil. But im far far from good.

enoch 06-12-2004 03:45 AM

Re: From Man Apart.............To Geena and anyone else who cares.
man apart I have been up all night again
there is no one to talk to again
the day ended bad again
don't think because god is in your ife he feeds you cake all the tjme
I have lost nine pounds in the last two weeks
no interest in eating
just wanted to tell my friend I love him

and I hope your day will better tomorrow
I don' think mine will be
its not on the books even if I cook them all the time

but having a friend like you that sees the world with out pretense now that is a good thing so thank you for being an honest man that gives honesty to others - some understand it

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