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    Old 05-19-2005, 09:54 AM   #16
    UnrealJuju
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    Lightbulb Re: "Ugly" is Depression

    It does seem like this world places too much emphasis on the way we look, how thin we are.

    I have to tell you though, that I always had felt confident growing up, that I was fairly attractive. I suppose I still am. Yet even naturally attractive people get rejected. It doesn’t matter anymore, because we are all ugly compared to that girl, or the Pam’s on TV, etc.

    It didn’t take long for me to feel “ugly” – and enter depression… right after my honeymoon my husband rejected me and didn’t desire me at all. Zip. 20 years old, a blushing bride with maybe 5 more pounds I could have lost, but still a lot of people thought I was attractive. Did I? Nope. For three years I felt like an alien, because I knew the person’s opinion who counted most, thought I was ugly without makeup, made vulgar references to how he thought I smelled, and wouldn’t touch me if I didn’t have makeup on and had gotten out of the bathtub. He certainly didn’t complement me, even when I did all those things.

    This says to me, that it’s not us. We are not the problem, however it is we happen to have been born looking. The problem is the people around us. Probably people who suffer from the exact same physical insecurities, only choose to deal with them in an utterly destructive manner to us. PEOPLE can be, and are ugly.

    It gets particularly uglier when, impossible to beat them, we join them in the way we think of ourselves. Who’s standards will we meet? Nobody’s. Super top models with utterly incredible bodies still have their pictures airbrushed, edited – sometimes whole body parts replaced! Now I ask you… if they aren’t good enough they way they are with their hair/makeup/nutrition/exercise coach teams, liposuction and cosmetic surgery… how would the rest of us measure up? Even attractive people feel ugly. Because people make them feel that way. It’d be so much better I guess, if we could learn to accept ourselves just by ourselves. But we listen to people who have decided we don’t measure up, and here we are.

    It’s really bad if it’s just you, disappointing yourself. Maybe in that case there could be things you can do to improve yourself and your image. It could help you be at peace with you. But don’t ever try and please those people – you won’t. Not even your peers, and rarely those jocks you described that exude confidence that holds everyone around them in thrall. Either they are TOO full of themselves, or they also experience the same stress about their untanned complexion, skin, appearance (and for guys, thinning hair, not to mention measuring up in other ways!) Girls too, the size of their chests causing those procedures to sky rocket.

    What a tragedy! It appears that the world is full of “beautiful” people, but we as a society refuse to acknowledge it. It will keep pushing people to starve themselves, change themselves, hate themselves, with an impossible fictional standard of what ugly isn’t.

    My last thought is that sometimes believing in yourself is enough to convince some people around you that you are beautiful. How can you have confidence, while being depressed? Good question. There’s the real ugliness of depression.

    Last edited by UnrealJuju; 05-19-2005 at 10:26 AM.

     
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    Old 05-19-2005, 10:40 AM   #17
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    Re: "Ugly" is Depression

    I'm not sure if anyone's even really reading my thoughts about your comments about growing up feeling ugly etc. *grin*

    But I caught something at the end of your post, Manapart, that I'd like a little bit of leeway in contemplating...

    It’s very interesting to see you bring the Bible and God, into the picture of how physically beautiful we are. If I can, I’d just like to use that same context and discuss that idea, and how it pertains to our own depression.

    It’s perfectly natural for us to blame God on how ‘He’ made us, even if He’s not the one in the wrong. When Adam and Eve were made perfect as stated in the Bible that you mentioned… who knows how they looked? Did she probably have huge boobs? Not likely. Who knows? How does perfect beauty really look? No one was around to indicate bone frame, color of their hair, eyes, height, weight, things we obsess about. Apparently, that wasn’t even important. What was important because it’s the only thing reported, is that Adam thought she was beautiful, and that they were created perfect and healthy. As the account goes on to report, they sinned and turned themselves imperfect. They cut themselves off from the real source of beauty, you could say. (Isn’t it great how fast Adam changes from beautiful poetry upon seeing Eve, to calling her ‘the WOMAN you GAVE me’ after they sinned. That’s how fast sin and imperfection caused them to see and treat eachother, and their faults.)

    Enter their offspring, us. It’s not that God makes some people pretty and some people ugly. That would mar His sense of justice, love and fairness. In a sense, everyone of us born into this world is ugly, because we’re all imperfect. It’s not God’s fault, it’s the fault of Adam and Eve (and their cohort!). And no matter how ‘beautiful’ someone’s genes are lucky enough to give them in their 20s, it’s not too long before they will too turn “ugly” aging. Trust me Manapart, you weren’t singled out for extra punishment and suffering. That’s exactly how the enemy wants us to feel, to blame what he’s done on God, and that lie continues to proliferate.

    How does the God of the Bible feel about physical appearance? He mentioned the fault of people in 1 Samuel, when choosing David as king, rather than his tall, good looking brother. ‘Don’t set your eyes on him, because of his countenance and his appearance, for I have rejected him. For not the way man sees, is the way God sees. Man sees only what appears to the eyes on the outside, God sees what is in the heart of a man.’ (loosely from memory. *lol*)

    We can use this to think about the fact that it’s people who judge another’s appearance – not God. He wouldn’t condemn anyone to be ugly anyway, if he did place a value on a person’s appearance. Another comfort is knowing that if you do believe if God personally, you can be happy knowing that he doesn’t view us as we do, in all of our ugliness. He doesn’t see us the way we depressed people see us. He hates that this ‘system of things’ causes us to feel unworthy of him, and unworthy of life and love. I recently studied about this topic, and it had a marvelous chapter about depression and how He views us.

    Apparently a few years ago, someone broke into the London Art museum and shot a painting worth $5 million by a famous artist. No thought was given at all, to just throwing this ‘ruined’ and imperfect painting away. Instead work began immediately by experts, to repair and restore it. If people place value like that on a canvas with paint, we can certainly trust that He doesn’t consider us a lost cause. In fact, he chooses not to look at our faults and imperfections, rather he prefers to see us at our very best potential, the way we would be once he restored perfection to us. And isn’t that a nice thought?

    From the context of the Bible, it shows that this God is very interested in depressed persons. David said that ‘you’ve collected all my tears in your skin bottle.’ He knows when we’re struggling and places a very high value on our endurance through such things. And HE values us, when we don’t value ourselves. We know that the Gospels says ‘two small birds sell for very little.’ It was actually, 2 of the lowest currency coin they had back in Roman times. But then it notes, that if you bought four birds for double the coins, a fifth bird was thrown in for free. As if it had no value placed on it. Yet it then goes on to say that not one of these small birds go unnoticed by our Heavenly Father. If he cares for these little birds… we can bet on the fact that he cares for each one of us.

    Here’s another thought on appearance from the Bible. Fast forward centuries, and you land in the small prophets. Apparently the Jewish trend was to ditch the wives they’d been married to, divorce them, and remarry younger, more beautiful women. How did God feel about that? He said his altars of worship were “covered in tears” and that HE was paying attention to them! That they were dealing “treacherously with the wives of their youth.” He told them plain out that he “hated” what they were doing. Clearly, God does not approve of discarding a person’s worth, because of their physical appearance.

    So if you believe in God, this could be a little comforting. If you don’t believe in God, well even a lot of people who claim not to, still have an interest in knowing some of those minor things contained in the Bible, that a lot of people pass up. (Probably the “pretty” ones!)


    My last comment, if anyone’s still awake… *wink*, is that there are people out there who take the Bible’s advice and don’t judge, neglect, persecute or distance themselves from others of a different race, gender, ethnicity, or appearance. We’re commanded to love our neighbor and love one another, and it doesn’t say anything about whether that person is popular or gorgeous. If you’re surrounded by people who don’t make “the secret person of the heart” the underlining importance, and instead hold the outside of a person to be more important… maybe it’d help to find these other kinds of people.

     
    Old 05-19-2005, 02:52 PM   #18
    Man Apart
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    Re: "Ugly" is Depression

    UnrealJuJu,

    God, the bible, religion, all of it, is by far one of the subjects I struggle mightly to express myself in. The scope of what I see in this world is faaaaaaaaaaaaaar beyond just the sins of vanity and the lust of beauty. There is suffering in every corner and under every rock and in every shadow of the earth. I'm just conflicted with being able to truly believe in anything good in this world. I'm sorry if I find it hard to place the entire burdens of the imperfection's in our existence on the shoulders of Adam and Eve. Its hard for me to blame the puppets if noone laughs at the puppet masters joke. If Adam and Eve were really created perfect, then they would not have been vulnerable to sin itself. They would have carried the same internal will that Jesus was born with. We have countries where children are starving to death because in the beginning of time a woman ate an apple. Earth should be no different from Heaven. Not only Earth but ANY other species or life forms or planets anywhere in any realm of life God created.

    Ahhhh, I gotta stop now or this will turn into the longest thread in history. lol. Its too vast to even tap on.


    I did find someone. The secret person of my heart. She is exactly everything I thought that never existed. Completely unphased by my race, looks, size, and age. I try to fight the thoughts of it being because shes poor. But she defies me sending her money. I have to bend her arm to go to western union. I can't explain her thoroughly. I don't even know if I can truly believe in her. She contradicts every thing Ive ever grown to learn and experience. I have to learn these new feelings she has given me. Love and acceptance. Ive never felt them before. Of course if she grew up here, she would probably be as vain as the next woman. Her beauty at first was intimidating to me. I actually wanted someone who wasn't as physically attractive as her. lol. But she is who she is through and through. And, I accept her and I love her. Now if only I can find a way to be with her. We're seperated by a Ocean greater than the Pacific and Atlantic combined. Its a mighty Ocean of Fear.

     
    Old 05-19-2005, 03:09 PM   #19
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    Re: "Ugly" is Depression

    Well, naturally you know I didn't expect anyone to put belief into what I said. :/ That's a very personal decision, your own faith. That's why I didn't even say that THIS IS SO. I only said 'this is how it is reported, in its own context.' I only stayed in the context you presented, in what the Bible says itself about those things. What they mean to each person, is obviously very different.

    I hope you can see her again soon. Although based on what I'm going through currently (only 1,000 miles compared to worlds) I wish you the best on working out how to be together. If you do figure it out, Manapart... maybe you can let me know.

    And see not everything's so bad! You got a girl who's probably far more beautiful than any of those 3rd graders. *Grin*

     
    Old 05-19-2005, 04:13 PM   #20
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    Re: "Ugly" is Depression

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Man Apart
    Hey Macjuls, how've you been? How is your blonde ambition working out for you? I bet you look great. They do say blondes have all the fun. Maybe it will ring true for you.

    I'm rebooking a flight to the Philippines I planned since May last year. The is my 4th time rebooking it. I haven't been able to go thus far because of severe anxiety and panic attacks that escalate as the date of my departure gets closer. So by the time I'm a week away from take off my anxiety has amplified to the point where I can't even function. The worst one I had was last November. I was 6 hours away from my flight and you would have thought I was being attacked by an invisible monster. It was violent. I was vomiting, shaking. I tried packing my clothes and even my socks felt as heavy as bricks. Like something physically pressing against my efforts. But nothing was there. It was all in my mind. And it left me devastated and even more convinced of how severely ill I am mentally. Basically, I'm just screwed up.

    I'm going to see someone. Someone who actually believes I'm worth a darn and willing to prove it to me. She doesn't have to prove much. I'll feel it in the tightness of her hug.

    Yeah they have internet cafe's there. I told myself I'd go there just to see how I feel there living on a Island near a beach. I don't know though. Everything inside me makes me feel like Ill be a fish out of water. But if I can find peace there. Ill stay. I got alot saved up. Thats the only good thing about not having a life. I never go anywhere so I save half of what I make each week. Id have a lot of pesos. lol. I'd probably buy some land and open up my own little internet cafe. I dunno. Too far ahead to even think about. Gotta get on the plane first.

    Hope you continue to get better MJ. Always take care.
    Man Apart,

    Wow......I'm really excited for you!! Hmmmmm, the Phillipines......lots of cash....a beautiful woman......dang!!......sounds like you'll be living out every man's dream!! I really hope it works for you ManApart.....you'll have to keep us all posted!! Actually.....I guess you DO have to get on that plane first don't ya? Is it the flying you're afraid of or just the idea of a whole new world? Have you tried flying with the clonazapam before? Personally...I love the stuff...works great for me...hope it has the same effect on you!!

    As for the "blonde ambition" (that just cracked me up), I can't say it's really improved my life much any...but it sure did a great job of hiding all my greys!! And believe me...there's absolutley nothing wrong with that!! So I guess...in that respect....things ARE looking up!! Again...thanks for the chuckle my friend...those are always welcome and appreciated!!

    I hope you find your peace.......you deserve it!!

    All my best,
    mj

     
    Old 05-21-2005, 12:04 PM   #21
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    Re: "Ugly" is Depression

    I don't think that being ugly necessarily means that someone will be depressed, nor that being attractive necessarily means someone will not be depressed. However, being ugly is definitely a handicap. For me, most of my problems wouldn't exist if not for my looks, and I imagine I'd actually have some relationships (either romantic or just friendship) to cling to instead of being all by myself.

    Quote:
    I never went to get my yearbook picture taken. I was the only one in my class that didn't. The only thing you see above my name and words, is a shadow that is unavailable.
    I honestly couldn't tell you whether I had my yearbook picture taken or not, but I've thrown away every picture of myself after I was put on meds up until the last couple years. In the past couple years, I've only had my picture taken a couple more times. I try to avoid cameras whenever possible, and I don't keep a photo album at all. Of course, there's nothing about my past I really want to remember anyway.

    Last edited by my username; 05-21-2005 at 12:07 PM.

     
    Old 05-21-2005, 05:13 PM   #22
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    Re: "Ugly" is Depression

    I do not so much mean for this to be a debated issue but I think he was trying to say that being more on the unatracktive side can definately increase your chances of depression. BUt being ugly doesn't mean that it is a physical uglyness, it could be inner dislikes that you have for your self or a part of your body you ished to be changed. My depression did actually come with my looks. I am not exactly ugly, actually I've been told the opposite, but at my age all guys want is sex and a piece of a**. So when I am not looked at in the way some sleezier or sluty girls are, I feel ugly and disliked. I gues I have to discribe my self to you for you to understand: I am a 5'8" biracial 15 year old girl with blue green eyes and I weigh 153. Don't get me wrong, I am by no means fat or over weight(I'm build very muscular and strong), but being feared all the time is not my ideal way of getting noticed. In elementary school all I did was hang w/ guys becuz girls are difficult to get along with. So i created an image of a tomboy, but with my thick headedness and strong build I was feared after throwing a kid my age. Having people fear you makes you feel unworthy of their friendship and that in turn makes you fell ugly. Although I am not ugly, i do have a feature that EVERYONE sees the first time they see me and wonder why or what happened. I was born with a birth mark the size of an apple and the shape of califorina around my right eye and down the middle of my nose. Unfortunately, with my darker skin tone, the birthmark is rather dark too. Every time i meet someone new, i get the comment, did you get in a fight? or what happened to your eye? It may seem like a minor detail to people but when parents and older siblings of people on my team or playing against my team say that I am scary to look at, i feel drgraded and shut down. I'm not sure if this relating to you helps your problems of knowing I completely agree with you, but I want you to know that even though some people here do not agree with you, you are entitiled to your own opinion. Good luck with your appearance issues, I hope that people will soon learn to look beyond the surface.
    ~alittledeserted

     
    Old 05-22-2005, 10:44 PM   #23
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    Re: "Ugly" is Depression

    Hi Man Apart
    I sincerely hope that you are able to get on that plane and fly to meet your true love! I sure hope you can get to the Phillipines even if your mom does have to shoot you with the tranquilizer gun! LOL I believe you can do it!

    I have to disagree with you about "It counts what is on the inside". It really does count to ME how a person is on the inside. I was made fun of not only by my classmates but my mom and my brother. So no matter what I looked like I always had this self image of being fat and ugly, because I was always told that I was fat and ugly. I have been overweight most of my life. I did lose 75 lbs after my youngest son was born. I have gained all of that back plus a whole lot more. I know some knock out "great looks" "beautiful" people. They are so ugly on the inside that when the majority of people get to know them they don't even want anything to do with them anymore. They are manipulative, shelfish, rude, liars, etc.

    I do know that my self esteem has had a huge effect on the way I act, the way I hold myself and the way I convey myself to others. When I was married...no matter how slim I was or how many compliments I got from other people. I still had the image of myself as being fat and ugly. I wouldn't allow people to take pictures of me. I didn't want to see myself looking like this huge ugly blob. My husband didn't help matters when he wouldn't compliment me. He was always trying to tear me down emotionally. It really didn't take much because I had always heard negative things. Oh and the other women....that was the worst to my ego and self esteem.

    I just want you to be happy and be with the one that you love. We all may have to come over to your place and help your mom with that tranqulizer gun. LOL You deserve to be happy and hopefully between now and September we can all come up with a plan to help you get on that plane.

    Best wishes and many heartfelt hugs,
    Sam

     
    Old 05-23-2005, 06:48 AM   #24
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    Re: "Ugly" is Depression

    I too am hoping that Man Apart has been able to fly the open sky to meet the woman he loves. Looks are like money nice to have but in no way do they guarantee happiness. I also know ppl who look great outside but inside they are ugly. I was married to a man who was blessed with looks and money. He let all that go to his head. What was once a beautiful person on the outside and the inside became someone dark and ugly on the inside and so very capable of hurting others with his looks and charm. Ppl tend to give good looking ppl the benifit of the doubt that they are nice if they come in a "nice package" and yes it takes longer to see someones true beauty when it is inner beauty but that beauty is well worth searching for. Many ppl know this and if Man Apart could possibly love his own inner beauty it would be easier for others to view it as well.

    I wish you all the best in your search for love on the otherside of the world Man Apart and am so praying you find it. Just know that we here see your inner strength and worth and consider you someone who is worth getting to know. I look forward to your written words and sense a wonderful man is behind them.

     
    Old 05-23-2005, 08:33 AM   #25
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    Re: "Ugly" is Depression

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SandybytheSea
    I too am hoping that Man Apart has been able to fly the open sky to meet the woman he loves. Looks are like money nice to have but in no way do they guarantee happiness. I also know ppl who look great outside but inside they are ugly. I was married to a man who was blessed with looks and money. He let all that go to his head. What was once a beautiful person on the outside and the inside became someone dark and ugly on the inside and so very capable of hurting others with his looks and charm. Ppl tend to give good looking ppl the benifit of the doubt that they are nice if they come in a "nice package" and yes it takes longer to see someones true beauty when it is inner beauty but that beauty is well worth searching for. Many ppl know this and if Man Apart could possibly love his own inner beauty it would be easier for others to view it as well.

    I wish you all the best in your search for love on the otherside of the world Man Apart and am so praying you find it. Just know that we here see your inner strength and worth and consider you someone who is worth getting to know. I look forward to your written words and sense a wonderful man is behind them.
    I couldn't agree more!

     
    Old 05-23-2005, 08:45 AM   #26
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    Re: "Ugly" is Depression

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Samantha317
    Hi Man Apart
    I sincerely hope that you are able to get on that plane and fly to meet your true love! I sure hope you can get to the Phillipines even if your mom does have to shoot you with the tranquilizer gun! LOL I believe you can do it!

    I have to disagree with you about "It counts what is on the inside". It really does count to ME how a person is on the inside. I was made fun of not only by my classmates but my mom and my brother. So no matter what I looked like I always had this self image of being fat and ugly, because I was always told that I was fat and ugly. I have been overweight most of my life. I did lose 75 lbs after my youngest son was born. I have gained all of that back plus a whole lot more. I know some knock out "great looks" "beautiful" people. They are so ugly on the inside that when the majority of people get to know them they don't even want anything to do with them anymore. They are manipulative, shelfish, rude, liars, etc.

    I do know that my self esteem has had a huge effect on the way I act, the way I hold myself and the way I convey myself to others. When I was married...no matter how slim I was or how many compliments I got from other people. I still had the image of myself as being fat and ugly. I wouldn't allow people to take pictures of me. I didn't want to see myself looking like this huge ugly blob. My husband didn't help matters when he wouldn't compliment me. He was always trying to tear me down emotionally. It really didn't take much because I had always heard negative things. Oh and the other women....that was the worst to my ego and self esteem.

    I just want you to be happy and be with the one that you love. We all may have to come over to your place and help your mom with that tranqulizer gun. LOL You deserve to be happy and hopefully between now and September we can all come up with a plan to help you get on that plane.

    Best wishes and many heartfelt hugs,
    Sam
    I'm so sorry to hear that about your mother, brother, and husband. That's terrible. How could they have been so blind? For what it's worth, I think you're absolutely beautiful, and seeing you wouldn't change my opinion, either. Thank you for sharing your beauty.

    xoxoxoxoxox > EoR
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