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    Old 12-30-2003, 04:23 PM   #16
    junkbondtrader
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    Re: Atkins Lies

    i recommend people considering an atkins lifestlye look up the framingham heart study. it is a comprehensive large scale long term study of people and the incidence of heart disease.

    their findings about cholesterol indicate that weight loss will decrease cholesterol in and of itself, (thus it is not possible to say that atkins rather than weighloss reduces chol). eating high fat, low fiber, diets is implicated in heart disease, and many cancers, especially colon cancer.

    Free radicals generally occur only in oils and fats, and especially in fatty foods of animal origin which are also high in cholesterol. According to cholesterol experts, plant based diets “provide double protection from heart disease". This is, firstly, because fruits, vegetables and whole grains contain very few free radicals to begin with, and secondly because they are rich sources of antioxidants, which knock out any free radicals which do manage their way to the arteries, and could precipitate heart disease and many forms of cancer.

    The average total cholesterol level for men in the United States is 211 points.
    For women, 213 points. The average level of a U.S. heart attack victim is 225 points. Below 150 points total cholesterol, risk of coronary artery disease becomes “almost nonexistent”. This is irrespective of trigliceride levels. Not a single case of heart attack has been observed in a subject with total cholesterol below 150. The average total cholesterol of a strict vegetarian (vegan) is 127 points. The much lower incidence of heart related death among vegetarians seems to have as much to do with what they are eating as what they are choosing not to eat. Of course, the atkins diet is as about as far from a vegetarian diet as one can possibly get.

    So the long and short is that while the atkins diet does allow for short term weightloss, the common wisdom is that if you go off the atkins plan you'll gain the weight back and then some. the logical problems with it as a long term lifestyle change then are increased risk of heart disease, several cancers, kidney failure, etc.

    is it really worth all that?

    Last edited by junkbondtrader; 12-30-2003 at 04:33 PM.

     
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    Old 12-30-2003, 06:31 PM   #17
    Amby
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    Re: Atkins Lies

    Atkins is not healthy. Plain and simple. No matter how much Atkins followers would like to go on about how much it has helped them to lose weight, the fact is it's not a healthy diet to follow for any certain amount of time. And you say it's a lifestyle change, which means you'll be eating all that fat and animal products for the rest of your life... That sounds right to you?? Veggies, fruits and grains are the healthiest foods you can eat. True, some are predisposed to having heart problems but it is a fact that diet can help prevent the onset of disease. Lots of fat, lots of meat, is NOT a healthy choice, regardless of your results with this diet. Sure, starving yourself will allow you to lose a lot of weight eventually too.. and that's not good for you either. Just because it works weight-wise doesn't mean it's going to be good health-wise. You can certainly to more damage than good.

    DonutsNCoffee and Trader, you pointed out some really good, important facts...I'm glad you decided to write about the common myths and misconceptions. It's great to see the other sides of this trend for once...

    Last edited by Amby; 12-30-2003 at 06:34 PM.

     
    Old 12-30-2003, 07:30 PM   #18
    Chum
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    Re: Atkins Lies

    One of my friends had to visit the emergency room after a week on atkins. She could not go to the bathroom due to the lack of fruits, grains, and veggies, and the doctor have her hell about it. I know from experience if atkins was healthy why the leg cramps, constipation, nausea, and hair loss? Scary indeed.

     
    Old 12-30-2003, 09:22 PM   #19
    Triciaann21
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    Re: Atkins Lies

    My cousins in medical school and she follows a low carb plan, but she made it clear that we all still need lots of vegetables, fruits and high fiber grains. Since cavemen times we have been eating foods from each group and not until now with our stationary lives have we become so fat.

    Im not saying anyone particular on this board, but Americans in general eat about 5 times the amount we need in a day even if we are active, which unfortunately is not the case. We are a very sedentary society. I personally think that fast food has a lot to do with the weight problems and obviously portion sizes have gotten out of control. When you go to a restaraunt and have two doggy bags to take home you know theres something crazy about portion sizes. My dad is built like a football player 6-4 and 270 lbs, hes built like a rock and he doesn't even need as many calories as the average person consumes in a day. I bet Shaquille Oneil's body would just break even on what the average American consumes.

    I don't think the food pyramid is to blame for everything. And I don't think low fat or lowcarb is to blame for everything. I think its our lazy lifestyles, fast food and portion sizes. It can't help either that so many people are gaining weight on antidepressants, since so many people are on them these days.

    I know someones gonna come back and say I never eat fast food and i run 7,000 miles a day and I eat like a bird and I'm still fat and its because of the food pyramid...blah blah blah

    Well go ck your thyroid if thats whats going on cause it aint the food pyramid

    But that's my two cents

     
    Old 12-31-2003, 06:27 AM   #20
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    Re: Atkins Lies

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by junkbondtrader
    the common wisdom is that if you go off the atkins plan you'll gain the weight back and then some.
    This criticism of the Atkins plan is so unbelievable it's incredible it still shows up. I guess common wisdom is something like common sense . . . not so common after all. The "common wisdom" where I come from is that you regain weight when you go off any weight reduction regime, not just Atkins.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by junkbondtrader
    the logical problems with it as a long term lifestyle change then are increased risk of heart disease, several cancers, kidney failure, etc. is it really worth all that?
    Could you site credible sources for these "logical problems" with the plan, please? It is an interesting assertion, though, since the usual criticism is that there are no studies of the long-term effects of Atkins.



    I do agree about looking up the Framingham Study. Take a good look at what it really demonstrated and read some commentary pro and con. Summaries can be appallingly inaccurate, so they won't do. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to get the basics out of these studies and it is extremely enlightening to read some of this stuff and then see how it gets boiled down into general recommendations (or worse yet, formulated into sound bytes for the nightly news).

     
    Old 12-31-2003, 06:32 AM   #21
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    Re: Atkins Lies

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Amby
    And you say it's a lifestyle change, which means you'll be eating all that fat and animal products for the rest of your life... That sounds right to you?? Veggies, fruits and grains are the healthiest foods you can eat.
    Amby, from your posts it sounds like you have mostly been reading anti-Atkins material, much of which is inaccurate - like the idea that people are gorging on fat and animal products and the veggies, fruits and grains are not allowed.

    In the long-term, Atkins recommended adding more and more nutrient-dense, organic veggies, fruits and whole grains to the diet. From what I hear, that is what most people are recommending, so where is the health risk?

     
    Old 12-31-2003, 06:35 AM   #22
    auntjudyg
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    Re: Atkins Lies

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chum
    One of my friends had to visit the emergency room after a week on atkins. She could not go to the bathroom due to the lack of fruits, grains, and veggies, and the doctor have her hell about it. I know from experience if atkins was healthy why the leg cramps, constipation, nausea, and hair loss? Scary indeed.
    Chum, I am very sorry about your friend, but Atkins recommends veggies right from the start, soon after adding in fruits and eventually whole grains. Your friend may have been following a plan she "heard" was Atkins, but she certainly was not following the plan outlined in one of Atkins' books.

    What is scary to me is what people will do based on what a friend said would work, or what they read on the internet, without investigating things themselves.

     
    Old 12-31-2003, 07:05 AM   #23
    wearesiamese
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    Re: Atkins Lies

    "And you say it's a lifestyle change, which means you'll be eating all that fat and animal products for the rest of your life... "

    *SIGH*.... once again.... WHERE do you people get the idea that the Atkins plan advocates eating fat and excluding veggies for a lifetime? Unless you've read the book, you don't know what it's really about. You're stuck on the "induction" phase. The rest of it has nothing to do with "eating all that fat," etcetera.

    I really can't believe I let myself get sucked into this "debate." Most of the people I'm "debating" with don't even "get" what the plan is about. Again.... if you don't think it's healthy, if you don't think it works long term, great, then don't do it. Simple, isn't it?

     
    Old 12-31-2003, 11:00 AM   #24
    rmainor
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    Re: Atkins Lies

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by auntjudyg
    Chum, I am very sorry about your friend, but Atkins recommends veggies right from the start, soon after adding in fruits and eventually whole grains. Your friend may have been following a plan she "heard" was Atkins, but she certainly was not following the plan outlined in one of Atkins' books.

    What is scary to me is what people will do based on what a friend said would work, or what they read on the internet, without investigating things themselves.
    Everyone considering any diet should be well informed. Do your research. Never go on what your friend did or what you heard, because what might work for that person may not work for you. Atkins has a website, and several books. If you have the book you would know what supplements to take while your following the Atkins Lifestyle, what you should do in case constipation happens. What to eat and how much of it. I don't put myself in debates, neither did I let them bother me or care about the negative statements that are posted on this board. As I said from the start I personally don't think Atkins is for everyone. And I hope anyone considering Atkins, doesn't let this post scare you away. DO YOUR RESEARCH

     
    Old 12-31-2003, 07:52 PM   #25
    Chum
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    Re: Atkins Lies

    Could you site credible sources for these "logical problems" with the plan, please? It is an interesting assertion, though, since the usual criticism is that there are no studies of the long-term effects of Atkins.


    There are no long term studies, because nobody can stick with it long term. How many people has done atkins for 20-30 years? I dont know any.

     
    Old 01-01-2004, 03:06 AM   #26
    Munchkin_puddin
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    Re: Atkins Lies

    Okay people, time for a reality check. Ever heard of Ketoacidosis? It slowly destroys your body. It is a condition usually associated with diabetes. I know this because I have a teen who suffers from diabetes. Any time ketones are present in the body they are slowly destroying your organs. Ketosis IS ketoacidosis and it kills! Is atkins safe? NO!!!!!! Just ask a diabetic.

     
    Old 01-01-2004, 10:09 AM   #27
    rmainor
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    Re: Atkins Lies

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Munchkin_puddin
    Okay people, time for a reality check. Ever heard of Ketoacidosis? It slowly destroys your body. It is a condition usually associated with diabetes. I know this because I have a teen who suffers from diabetes. Any time ketones are present in the body they are slowly destroying your organs. Ketosis IS ketoacidosis and it kills! Is atkins safe? NO!!!!!! Just ask a diabetic.
    PEOPLE PEOPLE PEOPLE

    Please do your Research

    Being in ketosis means your body has burned a large amount of fat in response to the fact that it didn't have sufficient glucose available for energy needs. Under everyday conditions, the carbohydrates you eat are converted to glucose, which is the body's primary source of energy. Whenever your intake of carbohydrates is limited to a certain range, for a long enough period of time, you'll reach a point where your body draws on its alternate energy system, fat stores, for fuel.

    This condition called dietary ketosis, means your body burns fat and turns it into a source of fuel called ketones. Ketones are produced whenever body fat is burned. When you burn a larger amount of fat than is immediately needed for energy, the excess ketones are discarded in the urine.

    Dietary ketosis is among the most maligned and misunderstood concepts in nutrition because it is often confused with ketoacidosis, which is a life-threatening condition most often associated with uncontrolled insulin-deficient Type 1 diabetes. In the Type 1 diabetic, the absence of insulin leads to a toxic build-up of blood glucose and an extreme break-down of fat and muscle tissue. This condition doesn't occur in individuals who have even a small amount of insulin, whether from natural production or artificially administered.

    Dietary ketosis, however, is a natural adjustment to the body's reduced intake of carbohydrates as the body shifts its primary source of energy from carbohydrates to stored fat. The presence of insulin keeps ketone production in check so that a mild, beneficial ketosis is achieved. Blood glucose levels are stabilized within a normal range and there is no break-down of healthy muscle tissue.

    The most sensitive tests of ketosis ("NMR" and "blood ketone level") show that everyone is in some degree of ketosis every day, particularly after not eating overnight and after exercising. Ketosis is the body's survival system. It is not an abnormality nor does it present any medical danger, except to a Type I insulin-dependent diabetic. The body functions naturally and effectively while in a state of dietary ketosis.

    Some of the benefits many people experience while in a state of dietary ketosis for intentional weight loss may include rapid weight loss, decreased hunger and cravings, improved mood, increased energy and, as long as protein intake is adequate, protection of lean muscle mass.

     
    Old 01-01-2004, 12:38 PM   #28
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    Re: Atkins Lies

    I dont care one way or the other as I am too much of a carb addict for Atkins ... I simply wanted to respond to the diabetic thing

    I am a type 1 diabetic and usually post on the diabetic board here. Ketosis and Ketoacidosis are NOT the same thing. We all have the potential to go into ketosis anytime we fast. Our bodies dont have the glucose to burn so it goes into the fat stores for energy. Even resting, your body burns energy. SO, lots of people can wake up first thing in the morning, after they have fasted all night, and they would test positive for ketones.

    Ketoacidosis is a totally different thing. Your body can not absorb glucose without it being wrapped in insulin. Insulin is basically what makes the square peg fit into the round hole or the cells. When you dont have the insulin, your body reacts by making ketones. These ketones are in unusually large amounts to the point where the body goes into starvation mode. You produce ketones far beyond what any diet consideres healthy.

    I dont want to argue all of this. It only fair though to stick with information as factual as you have it and the ketosis/ketoacidosis debate is NOT factual
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    Old 01-02-2004, 01:36 AM   #29
    TurningJapanese
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    Re: Atkins Lies

    Atkins will work if you consume less calories then you burn. It's not rocket science...

     
    Old 01-02-2004, 07:20 AM   #30
    rmainor
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    Re: Atkins Lies

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TurningJapanese
    Atkins will work if you consume less calories then you burn. It's not rocket science...
    It has nothing to do with calories. You just need to follow the diet and no cheating and you will lose weight. I pretty sure I consume more calories than I burn on the days I don't work out and the weight still came off.

    Last edited by rmainor; 01-02-2004 at 12:14 PM.

     
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