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    Old 02-05-2004, 11:19 PM   #46
    Nash-t
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    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    Try to think of the Atkins Diet as whole new way to live your life/after you been on his plan and you have lost your weight or maintain your weight,
    you will be suprised as how well you feel and just how safe/ eazy it was all along.
    It's totally up to the person thats wants to get with his program and follow it/nothing wrong with everyones opinions...after all it's your desision.
    I happen to love the Atkins D...........of corse I am going to phaise it!!! but it works...safe/sound/proud/ until some one proves to me that Dr Atkins program is not safe or any good for you..... ( pardon me ) but then shut the hell up.

    Last edited by Nash-t; 02-05-2004 at 11:43 PM.

     
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    Old 02-06-2004, 06:53 PM   #47
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    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nash-t
    Try to think of the Atkins Diet as whole new way to live your life/after you been on his plan and you have lost your weight or maintain your weight,
    you will be suprised as how well you feel and just how safe/ eazy it was all along.
    It's totally up to the person thats wants to get with his program and follow it/nothing wrong with everyones opinions...after all it's your desision.
    I happen to love the Atkins D...........of corse I am going to phaise it!!! but it works...safe/sound/proud/ until some one proves to me that Dr Atkins program is not safe or any good for you..... ( pardon me ) but then shut the hell up.
    There is enough information floating around on the TV and newspapers that do prove the Aitkins diet is a health risk to SOME PEOPLE! It does raise cholesterol significantly in rather large study done. IF a person is fighting HIGH cholesterol it is best to try a different diet, that is only reasonable. The nurses are doing studies on hospitable admittance in some hospitals for people having gall bladder or kidney problems and yes over half are on the aitkins diet. Everyone has their opinion but maybe some are founded on facts and not honeymoon emotions of losing weight that will come back in a matter of time. If you are healthy but overweight try it, but some health conditions warrant sensible eating, not deprivation diets. I eat everything in moderation, limit my sugars mostly, eat meat rarely, lost 150lbs in 1 year and have kept it off for over 20 yrs by NOT dieting, don't see anyone jumping on that band wagon, just eating sensibly and keeping as much of my money out of the hands of those DIET GURUS who drive gold rolls royce, and live in mansions. The world has enough of my money they don't need more.

     
    Old 02-07-2004, 04:01 PM   #48
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    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NancyH
    There is enough information floating around on the TV and newspapers that do prove the Aitkins diet is a health risk to SOME PEOPLE!
    What information is "floating around" that Atkins himself did not state. He listed specific conditions that might be of concern following his plan. As gets said so often in this type of thread . . . it's puzzling that people will knock a plan without being informed about it.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NancyH
    IF a person is fighting HIGH cholesterol it is best to try a different diet, that is only reasonable.
    What about the many people whose HIGH cholesterol improved dramatically on Atkins? They would have lost out following your advice.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NancyH
    The nurses are doing studies on hospitable admittance in some hospitals for people having gall bladder or kidney problems and yes over half are on the aitkins diet.
    You have mentioned this before. How many hospitals are involved? How many people have been polled? On a previous thread I asked about gall bladders being included and why other factors had been ruled out? Did these conditions pre-date Atkins? etc., etc.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NancyH
    . . . , not deprivation diets.
    What do "deprivation diets" have to do with this discussion?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NancyH
    I eat everything in moderation, limit my sugars mostly, eat meat rarely, lost 150lbs in 1 year and have kept it off for over 20 yrs by NOT dieting, don't see anyone jumping on that band wagon, just eating sensibly
    That's great that you found something that works for you. (Though you might want to check the word "diet" in the dictionary . . . everyone is dieting even if they are eating nothing.) I know plenty of people for who that has worked. And I know people who have had success with other plans, eating very sensibly as well. So what's the issue? Everyone is not the same.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NancyH
    . . . keeping as much of my money out of the hands of those DIET GURUS who drive gold rolls royce, and live in mansions.
    Gosh, don't you have access to a library? Though, you can get information about just about any plan on the internet.

     
    Old 02-07-2004, 09:08 PM   #49
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    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by auntjudyg
    What information is "floating around" that Atkins himself did not state. He listed specific conditions that might be of concern following his plan. As gets said so often in this type of thread . . . it's puzzling that people will knock a plan without being informed about it.



    What about the many people whose HIGH cholesterol improved dramatically on Atkins? They would have lost out following your advice.



    You have mentioned this before. How many hospitals are involved? How many people have been polled? On a previous thread I asked about gall bladders being included and why other factors had been ruled out? Did these conditions pre-date Atkins? etc., etc.



    What do "deprivation diets" have to do with this discussion?



    That's great that you found something that works for you. (Though you might want to check the word "diet" in the dictionary . . . everyone is dieting even if they are eating nothing.) I know plenty of people for who that has worked. And I know people who have had success with other plans, eating very sensibly as well. So what's the issue? Everyone is not the same.



    Gosh, don't you have access to a library? Though, you can get information about just about any plan on the internet.
    Since you are so well tuned to aitkins why bother asking anyway? You are the one getting hostile, I mentioned what I have read including HIS book, newspapers, medical journals and any other informational piece on any diet. Nurses in the hospitals are sporadically doing surveys as I mentioned before it isn't reliable nor is it unreliable as yet, data is still being done. My daughter is an RN and she is part of the survey and there really is something to it, she is also on the aitkins and has had good results and her cholesterol has risen some but not enough to be concerned. I've also known people who have had success and there is no issue. people here ask what our opinions are and that is what we give, I just like to give it out from the book not just heresay either. Yes the New Lexicon, the Webster's Dictionary defines Diet as "a prescribed course of what is to be eaten or not eaten" The food pyramid is a diet, not all diets are equal or to be taken. That is what I don't like about dieters such as aitkins, they get hostile to anyone who disagree or are contrary to aitkins even in a friendly way, isn't that what aitkins himself said in his book? Some people will have you believe this diet isn't healthy BUT...
    I'm a skeptic for crying out loud and I like to play devils advocate. Do you know I'm friends with alot of aitkins followers? do you think I can't be friends with a person who believes fully in his diet, including my own daughter? Do you think that my negativity towards certain diets mean I hate all diets? I just get out information and I will receive it as well. I read everything about every topic, it's part of my job, I read both the negative and the positive and I mentioned both in my posts. Somtimes I'm confused because I do read too much on both sides of an issue, can't help it. Medical Journals are what I read mostly as my daughter hands them down to me when she finished them. I like friendly banter now and then to.

     
    Old 02-09-2004, 12:20 AM   #50
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    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    Ladys please,
    no one is trying to make the other person look bad? heck this wouldn't be Amercia if we did not disgree at times.

    It's good you all have your opinions....theres the do's and don't in dieting and thats a person choice to decide on rather or not that paticular diet is right for them.

    Eatting right is the best way to go but hine-sight is 20/20

    For the ones that have been over weight most of there life probably would not care what kind of diet there own? as long as it works!

    Atkins is controversal sure!!! perhaps what makes people think this is the way things have been before the Atkins come along?....a person must understand that the things we eat carbs fatty foods ect ect works in our bodys in a way thats hard to understand to the lay person and what they read they tend to believe.

    You would think that being on the Atkins your cholesterol would go through the roof ?? but it's actually slowed down. your actually doing away with the fat that is stored in a unrineation process and the mussell mass is takeing it's place! I think Dr Atkins way of thinking is that if you do away with the fat in a safe manner by not eatting hi carbs then your body will adjust to this style of eatting/ by not eatting the hi carbs this helps the process.. for your body to do just that... by not taking in the fats/carbs thats bad for you/ sure you will get the sats fats but your body can adjust to that...in other words by unrination your body don't have the time to set up acute gall bladder or kidney malfuncation/failure! your age will play a big part in that!

    After your body goes through it's metabolism period adjusting to this type of food intake then your body dont actually have the time to ward in hi cholesterol/ problems that may arrise is not because of this diet... remember what metabolism means it means that its a chemical process through which your body changes air-food and other materials into the substances it needs to function/ two types of metabolic disorders (1.poor nutrition) and of corse a (2.genetic that is inherited! one would think that the Atkins is a poor nutrition diet? but through the metabolism process this is actually what make this diet work so well.
    Atkins Diet
    Its really a very complacaited diet in how it works (A two week induction phase)...you think eating bacon eggs cheeses unflour meats all non carbohydrates and not putting in the nutrints you was taking in you would get sick and have all types of problems/ but as long as your body can metabolise its self then maybe thats why this is not a bad diet after all?

    A person should not have to be on Atkins all the time but what they get from it is a way to eat and that in its self will change the way they live.
    and feel much better and of corse much thinner weigh less....when you weigh less you feel better in general!


    You must remember that the fat is stored / carried in your bloodstrem/ and by urineation carried out of your body then hence other medical problems that one would think may arrise from to much fat intake!

    Understanding the Atkins program or process is a miss consumeption to a lot of folks....I certainly can see why its such a controversal diet!

    I don't know Dr Atkins age when he died 75 maybe? but he devoted his lifetime to this diet with Reserch/ time and unslelfeness effort/ not for the money and glory/power/ but because he was a very nice and caring man that loved people and cared how they felt about them selfs.

    Last edited by chevyman; 02-09-2004 at 01:02 AM.

     
    Old 02-09-2004, 09:52 AM   #51
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    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    Maybe the best way to view the Atkins Diet....simply buy the

    "Dr Atkins The New Diet Reveloution" book! then simply compare his ways of dieting with any well known "respected" medical material books as to how the body functions. Then that may help you to decide rather or not the Atkins Diet is right for you or the one you love!
    Please don't use the "news papers" medical gossip" or hearsay"/ to make your descision... simply reserch it yourself!

     
    Old 02-09-2004, 04:07 PM   #52
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    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wearesiamese
    Quote: "Explain this, if 7 out of 10 Drs say aitkins can be a harmful diet in the long run, what have they to gain having people eat a balanced diet and stay off the fad diets?'

    Nancy, I don't really disagree with much of anything you said in your post, except the above, and here's why. Medical professionals are always learning and revamping what the old "rules" were. Just think how different the information we have now is from the information we had from, say, 100 years ago. For example, up until very recently, many if not most doctors supported eating a "low fat" diet. Now they are learning that, actually, you need certain fats, and that certain fats even support and promote weight loss and cardiac health. This flies in the face of what they were saying just a mere 5 years ago.
    I would agree that most fad diets are bad news. The Atkins diet can be bad news too, for people that don't understand the whole scope of it. An example would be someone who does the induction phase indefinitely. If the Atkins plan is followed the way it was designed, it isn't actually a fad diet, but simply a reduced carbohydrate eating style.
    Point Taken, it was a rather blanket statement and I agree we do need to limit the carbs, fats etc. My hubby has had 3 heart attacks, so we know the good the bad and the ugly of the fat family. They wouldn't let him go on the Aitkins diet and I understand why, the Ornish was an ok but basically said watch the fats.

     
    Old 02-09-2004, 04:15 PM   #53
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    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by auntjudyg
    They are seeing more of what exactly?

    Hopefully, others will start collecting such data so we can see whether there is a larger trend. Personally, I find such antidotal studies very valuable. But, of course, one must be careful what and how information is collected and processed. Human nature does leave most of us with a tendency to see what we want to see.

    Considering all the dire predictions about liver and kidney problems one would allegedly suffer on Atkins, it is surprising nothing more concrete has ever come out, that I know of anyway. Sure, I’m being rather snide here, but, seriously, there has never even been a warning about people who were not aware they had liver/kidney problems having them crop up while on Atkins, and to beware of particular symptoms.

    Pinning gall bladder problems on “high protein diets” is questionable to me on a couple of fronts. I have never heard of “high protein” as a risk factor, though I don’t know that much about gall bladder problems. The primary risk group was traditionally summed up as “fair, fat and forty”, so I think it is a reasonable guess that most people following Atkins have(had) at least one of those. The other place I have heard about gall bladders acting up is in people who have lost a significant chunk of weight (by any method); which leaves me wondering why your nurses attribute the problems to “high protein” rather than the other factors that have been well known before Atkins.

    Characterizing Atkins as “high protein” has also always puzzled me. What do you mean by “high” protein; how many grams per day? When the matter comes up on Atkins and other low-carb forums, with people posting menus or whatever, I rarely see anyone gorging on protein (a range of 70 to 90 grams per day is quite typical) . . . except maybe in the very beginning when they are getting adjusted. When eating sufficient fat, most people simply do not have the capacity to eat tremendous excess protein from the whole food sources Atkins recommends.

    The one group I have seen eating what I would consider excess protein are those working out and “bulking up”. On fitness boards, I have often seen a formula used to calculate needed protein that gives a figure WAY over 100 grams per day for many. And they are not recommending getting it from whole food sources, but from soy and whey powders. Do you nurses notice many people following this sort of regime showing up with kidney and gall bladder problems?

    In any event, Atkins does say that the plan ought not to be followed by people with liver and kidney problems but that people with healthy liver and kidney ought to be able to handle it.



    Some of Atkins’ ideas do go counter to “conventional” (depending on the convention de jure) thinking on diet and nutrition. Yes, he spells that out and explains why he believes his thinking is correct. Is this what you think makes him like a cult leader? I don’t get the analogy.

    I saw a couple of interviews with Atkins where he said he would welcome independent study of his plan – one when the plan was first published and again in more recent years.



    He says so himself.



    Where do you get the figure about 7 out of 10 doctors? A minute ago you were saying there was no hard factual data on Atkins, so, if this were so, how could doctors know it was harmful? Whose version of a balanced diet? Who’s definition of “fad diet”?



    The word “diet” gets misused so much in English, so literally “dieting” is the ONLY thing that can work in the long term (or not work as the case may be). Atkins and other low carb plans are meant to be lifetime, lifestyle changes.



    The portion control business works very well for some. Atkins and other low carbers offer a different framework that works for others. I think we wouldn’t be in this situation if there were recognition that different plans work for different people.

    aitkins isn't new ya know, he's been around since the 60's or maybe before, my mom was on it in the 60's anyway, this is the new revolution and there was an independant study by Drs and 7 out of 10 did not think the aitkins diet was all that it was cracked up to be, it's one of the most heated debates right now, personally a person loves it bad media or not, or one could care less about it. It is as hot a topic amoung Drs as it is here on this forum.

     
    Old 02-10-2004, 06:12 AM   #54
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    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chevyman
    Maybe the best way to view the Atkins Diet....simply buy the

    "Dr Atkins The New Diet Reveloution" book! then simply compare his ways of dieting with any well known "respected" medical material books as to how the body functions. Then that may help you to decide rather or not the Atkins Diet is right for you or the one you love!
    Please don't use the "news papers" medical gossip" or hearsay"/ to make your descision... simply reserch it yourself!
    Wouldn't that be nice? So we could have some informed debate around here!!!

     
    Old 02-10-2004, 07:16 PM   #55
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    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by auntjudyg
    Wouldn't that be nice? So we could have some informed debate around here!!!
    Saw a special tonight on Dr Aitkins, his wife said he had heart disease and was overweight(weighed over 200lbs)and had high cholesterol. So what is it? Did he follow his own plan all these years, like 30+ and he still had heart disease weight problems and kidney problem along with high cholesterol, or did he not follow the plan but just sold it to everyone else? Of course his wife said it had nothing to do with his diet plan, but I would say that to if I wanted to keep reaping the profits off his products etc. Where there is smoke there is fire, so I'm convinced he didn't practice what he preached. His wife would agree on that. This also could be fabricated crap from the autopsy report, but why would his wife even comment on it? Such a hot topic but I think it will die down again and the new fad will be even better. Most dieticians agree this is another fad gone retro. I'm amused by all the hype it is producing these days. I pay little attention to media and alot to medical journals but when there is documentation on it one has to wonder just what really is...

     
    Old 02-11-2004, 05:55 AM   #56
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    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    I've seen a copy of the New York City Medical Examiner's report that referred to Atkins' past medical history :
    MI (heart attack), CHD (congestive heart disease), and HTN (hypertension).

    His weight was measured at 258 pounds at time of death.

    Atkins Nutritionals released the story that the whole thing was dreamed up by PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) as an attack on meateaters and the hospital filled him with intravenous fluid and thus raised his weight.

    I guess we must all judge whom to believe.

    Nancy's point was to the core: did 30 years of low carb contribute to the myriad heart conditions or did Atkins' fail to follow his own diet?

     
    Old 02-11-2004, 06:30 AM   #57
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    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    I didn't see the special, but most probably the reason Mrs. Atkins was commenting was in response to the city medical examiner's report on her husbands death that was mistakenly released and made public by PCRM. It was all over the news yesterday.

    So far the reports have been pretty consistent, but Nancy's post is the first I have seen mention about kidney problems and high cholesterol, or that Mrs. Atkins would agree that he did not practice what he preached. What network was the special on? I'd love the read a summary.

    Atkins' heart problems have been known for many years and I haven't seen anything in the recent reports that add new information that negate his explanation. I would have liked a statement from his doctor at the time that all did become public, but then again I do believe public figures are entitled to their privacy and it would probably not have settled the matter anyway. As it is, Nancy is mentioning a fabricated autopsy report (this is the first I am hearing that an autopsy was even performed). And at the time of his death and since many anti-Atkins types were saying the death certificate had been falsified (like you could get all those people in a major NYC hospital to falsify a medical document).

    I'm aware of R.D.s' stand on Atkins. My understanding is that in order to continue to get the licenses renewed they have to tow the ADA party line pretty closely. And of course the ADA has their anti-low-carb stance based on a "study" financed by a potato growing association. Like Atkins is the only one with financial interests at stake.

    The hype is amusing. Nothing brings out negative posts like a question about Atkins. Amazing. Oh how horrible it is that Atkins made so much money with his products (that absolutely are not required at all to follow his plan) but there is no mention of all the money being made on white bread, cakes, cookies, etc., that have zero nutritional value.

    Yes, meanwhile, we are all just waiting for documentation on all those people with liver and kidney problems that the naysayers have been saying would come as a result of following Atkins. And for informed debate.

     
    Old 02-11-2004, 06:33 AM   #58
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    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zip2play
    Nancy's point was to the core: did 30 years of low carb contribute to the myriad heart conditions or did Atkins' fail to follow his own diet?
    The couple of times I saw him interviewed, he did claim to follow his own plan.

    He claimed his heart problem was not diet related (as his widow has continued to maintain in the reports I have read).

    Last edited by auntjudyg; 02-11-2004 at 06:34 AM.

     
    Old 02-11-2004, 08:42 AM   #59
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    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    Ok, getting somewhat back to the topic of this thread "is the atkins diet safe". Quite a bit of interesting reading on the subject can be found by doing a search for [atkins fact fallacy] using any good search engine such as [url]www.***********[/url]

    And for recent news related to the release of Dr. Atkins medical report by PCRM, just search for [atkins] on news.***********

    My recommendation is to use the information available and form your own opinions regarding the diet. Just verify that the source of your information is sound and objective. So much info on the net is little more than opinion with heavy doses of bias and self-serving interests thrown in.
    __________________
    The tragedy of science is the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact. T H Huxley

     
    Old 02-11-2004, 08:48 AM   #60
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    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    The atkins diet was a marketing gimmick.


    Common sense works best.

     
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