It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Diet & Nutrition Message Board

  • is the atkins diet safe

  • Post New Thread   Closed Thread
    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Old 02-11-2004, 09:43 AM   #61
    NancyH
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    NancyH's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2001
    Location: Washington State
    Posts: 1,654
    NancyH HB User
    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by auntjudyg
    I didn't see the special, but most probably the reason Mrs. Atkins was commenting was in response to the city medical examiner's report on her husbands death that was mistakenly released and made public by PCRM. It was all over the news yesterday.

    So far the reports have been pretty consistent, but Nancy's post is the first I have seen mention about kidney problems and high cholesterol, or that Mrs. Atkins would agree that he did not practice what he preached. What network was the special on? I'd love the read a summary.

    Atkins' heart problems have been known for many years and I haven't seen anything in the recent reports that add new information that negate his explanation. I would have liked a statement from his doctor at the time that all did become public, but then again I do believe public figures are entitled to their privacy and it would probably not have settled the matter anyway. As it is, Nancy is mentioning a fabricated autopsy report (this is the first I am hearing that an autopsy was even performed). And at the time of his death and since many anti-Atkins types were saying the death certificate had been falsified (like you could get all those people in a major NYC hospital to falsify a medical document).

    I'm aware of R.D.s' stand on Atkins. My understanding is that in order to continue to get the licenses renewed they have to tow the ADA party line pretty closely. And of course the ADA has their anti-low-carb stance based on a "study" financed by a potato growing association. Like Atkins is the only one with financial interests at stake.

    The hype is amusing. Nothing brings out negative posts like a question about Atkins. Amazing. Oh how horrible it is that Atkins made so much money with his products (that absolutely are not required at all to follow his plan) but there is no mention of all the money being made on white bread, cakes, cookies, etc., that have zero nutritional value.

    Yes, meanwhile, we are all just waiting for documentation on all those people with liver and kidney problems that the naysayers have been saying would come as a result of following Atkins. And for informed debate.
    Autopsy is pretty standard when the cause of death is undetermined. They did the autopsy because they did not know what the exact cause of death was, it was a clot, so how would they know that if they didn't go in to see it. Besides when he died they said they were doing an autopsy to determine the cause of death at the time. I find it hard to believe the hospital would fabricate anything that could come back at them in a lawsuit from the wife, as yet she just denies it was from the diet.

     
    Sponsors Lightbulb
       
    Old 02-11-2004, 06:07 PM   #62
    TheSlayer
    Member
     
    TheSlayer's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Feb 2004
    Posts: 50
    TheSlayer HB User
    Thumbs up Re: is the atkins diet safe

    Hi Korn-Im 28-I've been on atkins for 5 months-Ive lost over 30 pounds now-and I'm weight loss resistant! so anyone who tells you it doesn't work-lies! I used to get the shakes before meas(low blood sugar) atkins cured that I used to be addicted to carbs-not any more! this diet is great and for the record-my cholesterol has come down dramatically along with hypertension and I'm currently no longer at risk for diaetes which is a major accomplishment because it runs in my family big time-about 8 months ago I was told I was "borderline diabetic" The doctor just said whatever I'm doing-keep doing it-he's very pleased so tell anyone who says cholesterol goes up to prove it!! the evidence speaks for itself-I totally stand by it and reccommend it 100%! you should buy the book-it's very informative!! good luck......The Slayer

     
    Old 02-11-2004, 06:18 PM   #63
    TheSlayer
    Member
     
    TheSlayer's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Feb 2004
    Posts: 50
    TheSlayer HB User
    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    The people who criticize this diet-have you read the book?I've been on it now for 5 months and lost 30 pounds-and thats with my being wight loss resistant and borderline diabetic! all I have to say is please research this b4 you knock it because it does help-it has improved my life dramatically-my cholesterol has come down big time and my blood pressure is fabulous-I am no longer on the verge of diabetes and no longer addicted to carbs! This diet is very healthy-I mean can you honestly say that cutting your cholesterol by 30% or more is bad? or reducing your blood pressure is bad? what about decreaseing the risk of diabetes? that's bad?? My doctor is thrilled with me and says whatever I'm doing-keep it up!...so please at least read the book and research this b4 you determine it doesn't work or is bad! I say again-reduction in cholesterol-reduction in blood pressure-reduction in the risk of diabetes-and this is bad?

     
    Old 02-11-2004, 07:00 PM   #64
    NancyH
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    NancyH's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2001
    Location: Washington State
    Posts: 1,654
    NancyH HB User
    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    [QUOTE=TheSlayer]The people who criticize this diet-have you read the book?I've been on it now for 5 months and lost 30 pounds-and thats with my being wight loss resistant and borderline diabetic! all I have to say is please research this b4 you knock it because it does help-it has improved my life dramatically-my cholesterol has come down big time and my blood pressure is fabulous-I am no longer on the verge of diabetes and no longer addicted to carbs! This diet is very healthy-I mean can you honestly say that cutting your cholesterol by 30% or more is bad? or reducing your blood pressure is bad? what about decreaseing the risk of diabetes? that's bad?? My doctor is thrilled with me and says whatever I'm doing-keep it up!...so please at least read the book and research this b4 you determine it doesn't work or is bad! I say again-reduction in cholesterol-reduction in blood pressure-reduction in the risk of diabetes-and this is bad?[/QUOTE

    I have read his books back in the 70's and recently the new revolution diet which isn't new by the way. IT's great you are having good luck with it now, but the so called critical population is talking about the long term effects. Any diet will cause you to lose weight significantly and as for the cholesterol, not everyone lowers their cholesterol in fact a majority of people end up with higher cholesterol, I for one! My Dr took me off of it because of it. Everyone will react differently with any diet. I was borderline diabetic but I cut my carbs without eliminating them entirely and things are ok. High protein diets will over time and can cause kidney problems, that has been known long before aitkins introduced his diet as well. Cutting back on meat, adding more veggies and fruits and fiber will do the same as an Aitkins diet without the side effects like kidney problems. I'm not near as critical about the diet as I am about the proponents who think it is the ONLY one that works. I have a friend who has been on it for 5 yrs, she lost 30lbs the first year and another 20 after that(needs to lose 150 more)and brags that her cholesterol is 500 like it is really an improvement and when you tell her that is high she will lie and say the Dr said it is just fine. Any fool knows it isn't but instead of accepting this diet isn't the best for her cholesterol she denies denies denies it has anything to do with the diet. I've known her 10yrs and her cholesterol was never over 200. She like many seem to fall under a spell, even if it is causing problems it is NOT the diet, since it is a possibility why keep on it after the weight is lost? Even tho the medical report was leaked by the vegan community to discredit his diet, no one will ever know for sure it wasn't the diet, as well as no one will ever know the diet was partly an underlying problem. The bullets are there but what pulled the trigger!!

     
    Old 02-11-2004, 07:30 PM   #65
    ARIZONA73
    Senior Veteran
    (male)
     
    ARIZONA73's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Aug 2002
    Location: Fords, N.J. USA
    Posts: 2,263
    ARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB User
    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    Atkins did have cardiomyopathy. There's no secret about that. But that is a condition completely unrelated to atherosclerosis, the most common form of heart disease. It usually stems from a viral or bacterial infection, and is not in any way related to any particular diet. These people who are jumping on the bandwagon and criticizing the diet are just plain crazy. You know what? When Ornish finally dies I'm going to point the finger and say "Aha, you see! It was from that stupid low-fat diet he was eating!!!" And it doesn't matter what he dies from. I'll do exactly the same thing!!!

     
    Old 02-11-2004, 07:51 PM   #66
    sean
    Senior Veteran
    (male)
     
    sean's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Nov 2000
    Location: New York, NY< USA
    Posts: 764
    sean HB Usersean HB Usersean HB Usersean HB Usersean HB Usersean HB Usersean HB Usersean HB Usersean HB Usersean HB Usersean HB User
    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    "I have read his books back in the 70's and ....... Any diet will cause you to lose weight significantly and as for the cholesterol, not everyone lowers their cholesterol in fact a majority of people end up with higher cholesterol, I for one! My Dr took me off of it because of it. Everyone will react differently with any diet. I was borderline diabetic but I cut my carbs without eliminating them entirely and things are ok. High protein diets will over time and can cause kidney problems, that has been known long before aitkins introduced his diet as well. ...."


    Well there is so much no one can respond to in your post about your friend with the 500 cholesterol level. Sorry about that. As to cutting your carbs without eliminating them entirely, that sounds to me like the Atkins diet,so I'm uncertain of your point.

    However, two things in your statement have been the subject of MUCH research, and the studies show that cholesterol does not always come down on a low carb diet, but it does for most people. What DOES come down sharply, and much more predictably so than on Ornish or similar plans, is total blood triglycerides. Ask your doc, any doc, which he or she considers more dangerous, high total cholesterol, or high tgs. The research says triglyceride levels are more closely related to heart disease than is cholesterol.

    This is one reason why the research into all-cause mortality among dieters shows lower death rates for low carb dieters. Yes, there have been a few such studies and they are available through a pubmed search.


    The second thing needing correction (again) is the protein diet/kidney disease myth. If you ALREADY HAVE a kidney disease you are advised to cut your protein intake becuase a damaged kidney cannot handle the ammonia, etc.

    However, protein diets as a possible CAUSE of kidney disease have been studied several times, and no researcher has every found any causal link whatsoever. These studies are also available on pubmed.

    One doesn't follow from the other at all. If you have a very bad heart you will probably be told to avoid strenuous exercise, as it very well might kill you. But exercise, even strenuous exercise, does not CAUSE heart disease. in fact, as we know, it is more likely to be preventive of heart disease than any dietary treatment we have discussed yet on this board.

    If you have hay fever you will want to avoid pollen, but there is no evidence that pollen CAUSED the allergy in the first place. We are not advised to avoid sniffing flowers because one day it will make us allergic. In fact, we seem to be learning from the most recent research that allergies are more likely in children who are raised withOUT sufficient exposure to allergens, immunogens, etc.

    So it is for protein and the kidney. If kidney already bad, protein a problem. But, if kidney good, protein not make kidney bad.

    That said, we should stop arguing about how Atkins and low carb diets are gonna kill us, already. I am amazed at the misinformation (like that above) on the subject that keeps getting repeated over and over, but the more important thing is that we each study for ourselves (study does not mean read lots of internet messages), use comon sense, and try to find the diet or life style that keeps us healthy and happy.

    I would be very surprised if the answer turned out to be exactly the same for any two of us.

    For those of us who have found weight loss and health and fitness by reducing carbs, especially empty-calorie carbs, let us continue unmolested by myths about our kidneys, blood lipids, and debates about Dr. Atkins's autopsy.

    Really.

    After years on the diet, I'm healthier this way, eat a more balance diet (yes with lots of veggies), and am fitter and stronger than ever before, my blood work is great, and I don't go around telling anyone that their way of eating will kill them. Once they're dead they'll know anyway.

    So, let us be, already.


    thanks


    sean

     
    Old 02-12-2004, 08:34 AM   #67
    auntjudyg
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    auntjudyg's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Dec 2000
    Posts: 2,373
    auntjudyg HB User
    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sean
    . . . debates about Dr. Atkins's autopsy.
    I don't believe it! The world must be ready to come to an end!!! An inaccuracy in a post by "sean"!!!!!

    Dr. Atkins did not have an autopsy. The medical examiner's report was based on a visual evaluation.

    It just demonstrates how easily we can substitute one word for another, it gets on the Internet (or somewhere) and then proliferates.

     
    Old 02-12-2004, 12:09 PM   #68
    sean
    Senior Veteran
    (male)
     
    sean's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Nov 2000
    Location: New York, NY< USA
    Posts: 764
    sean HB Usersean HB Usersean HB Usersean HB Usersean HB Usersean HB Usersean HB Usersean HB Usersean HB Usersean HB Usersean HB User
    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by auntjudyg
    I don't believe it! The world must be ready to come to an end!!! An inaccuracy in a post by "sean"!!!!!

    Dr. Atkins did not have an autopsy. The medical examiner's report was based on a visual evaluation.

    It just demonstrates how easily we can substitute one word for another, it gets on the Internet (or somewhere) and then proliferates.

    oops.

    You da bomb, aunt judy.

    Sean

     
    Old 02-12-2004, 12:31 PM   #69
    zip2play
    Inactive
     
    Join Date: Apr 2002
    Location: Jersey City, NJ
    Posts: 2,896
    zip2play HB User
    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    Atkins DID NOT have an autopsy because his widow forbade it.
    The NY Medical Examiner in his PUBLIC RECORD- freely available- listed the conditions that were most pertinent from his medical history.
    These include MI, CHF and HYPERNTENSION. There is no mention of cardiomyopathy.

    I think the Medical Examiner would have disclosed myopathy had it been listed. I realize Dr. Trager pooh-poohs this as "underlings" in the ME Office but that seems a little too pat for me. It's all in keeping with the veil of secrecy, lies and half truths that have dogged the subject since they kept his heart failure (stoppage) a secret for several days in 2002 til a reporter got the scoop. Only then was the "cardiomyopathy" mentioned. I heard Atkins say at one time it was caused by a virus and at another that
    it was caused by a bacterial infection. You or I could make a mistake like that, but Atkins was a Cardiologist.
    My take is that Atkins was a very sick puppy for a very long time. And though he's a sample of ONE, he's the BIG ONE...and 30 years is a long time.
    I would be very fearful of ever going back on a high fat diet again (I did Atkins 3 times over 3 decades, the last for 2 years....my cholesterol went up slightly and I lost 30 pounds)
    I had my coronary stent placed last month...98% blockage of the right coronary artery.

    Last edited by zip2play; 02-12-2004 at 12:32 PM.

     
    Old 02-12-2004, 07:32 PM   #70
    NancyH
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    NancyH's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2001
    Location: Washington State
    Posts: 1,654
    NancyH HB User
    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ARIZONA73
    Atkins did have cardiomyopathy. There's no secret about that. But that is a condition completely unrelated to atherosclerosis, the most common form of heart disease. It usually stems from a viral or bacterial infection, and is not in any way related to any particular diet. These people who are jumping on the bandwagon and criticizing the diet are just plain crazy. You know what? When Ornish finally dies I'm going to point the finger and say "Aha, you see! It was from that stupid low-fat diet he was eating!!!" And it doesn't matter what he dies from. I'll do exactly the same thing!!!
    Does that explain the congestive heart failure to? Being overweight and having kidney problems do stem from a protein rich diet as well. Not everyone is going to have that problem but some do. Ornish, well a guru is he to. Low fat doesn't mean elimanating all foods entirely, just cutting down. I've done that for over 35 yrs, didn't even know there was such a diet til recently. Common sense will keep my money away from any man or woman touting a specific diet, whether it be Ornish, Jennie Craig, Opray(that's a laugh)Dr Phil, aitkins, weight watchers and who knows what other fads are still out there, I don't go for any of them.

     
    Old 02-13-2004, 06:26 AM   #71
    arkie6
    Senior Veteran
    (male)
     
    arkie6's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Nov 2000
    Location: Russellville, AR, USA
    Posts: 544
    arkie6 HB User
    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    FYI, thesmokinggun has a copy of the medical report on their site last time I looked. At the top it states "Report of External Examination". The Autopsy section of the report is blank. On the Certificate of Death Transcript, it states date and time of death as April 17, 2003, 11:01 AM and the Report of External Examination was signed 4/17/03 at 5:00 PM. The only place MI, CHF, and HTN are mentioned is in the comments section at the end of the case worksheet. From my interpretation of the handwritten note (typical poor doctor's handwriting), it simple states "72 yr. WM E M/O, MI, CHF, HTN fell on 4/8 - struck head - epidural hematoma". Seems like lots of assumptions are being made as to exactly what those comments imply. Those kind of issues can't be diagnosed by an external examination of a decessed individual. So, what was the basis for putting those comments in the report? Without knowing that, the validity of those comments are in question. Also in the comments box below the note is a date of "1/22/04 10:20 - E H/O" What's up with that date? It looks as if someone added a little bit to the report almost 1 year after the death.
    __________________
    The tragedy of science is the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact. T H Huxley

     
    Old 02-13-2004, 06:28 AM   #72
    arkie6
    Senior Veteran
    (male)
     
    arkie6's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Nov 2000
    Location: Russellville, AR, USA
    Posts: 544
    arkie6 HB User
    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NancyH
    ...Being overweight and having kidney problems do stem from a protein rich diet as well...
    Where do you keep coming up with this stuff? I've never been able to find any evidence to support those statements.
    __________________
    The tragedy of science is the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact. T H Huxley

     
    Old 02-13-2004, 09:52 AM   #73
    ARIZONA73
    Senior Veteran
    (male)
     
    ARIZONA73's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Aug 2002
    Location: Fords, N.J. USA
    Posts: 2,263
    ARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB User
    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    Arkie,

    Yea, you're right about that medical report! It looks as though something else WAS penciled in at a later date. I don't know. This whole thing is beginning to look pretty fishy to me.

     
    Old 02-13-2004, 07:57 PM   #74
    ARIZONA73
    Senior Veteran
    (male)
     
    ARIZONA73's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Aug 2002
    Location: Fords, N.J. USA
    Posts: 2,263
    ARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB User
    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    NancyH,

    Yes, cardiomyopathy can lead to congestive heart failure. Then again, being in a comatose condition after suffering brain damage can cause a lot of problems. Prior to death organs do begin to shut down. This however does not mean that the person was in this state before the injury occurred.

     
    Old 02-14-2004, 07:25 PM   #75
    NancyH
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    NancyH's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2001
    Location: Washington State
    Posts: 1,654
    NancyH HB User
    Re: is the atkins diet safe

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by arkie6
    Where do you keep coming up with this stuff? I've never been able to find any evidence to support those statements.
    It wouldn't matter, you wouldn't believe it anyway, people live in this world with rose colored glasses. it's not like I pick it out of the wind but I might as well have for all the rose colored glasses here. Notice all of a sudden since this big news about aitkins that now low carb food is everywhere even in the frozen food section? I eat low carb to some degree anyway just not to anyone elses specifications.

     
    Closed Thread

    Related Topics
    Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
    Atkins diet....YES or NO? CaliGirl19 Weight Loss 42 04-07-2006 07:38 PM
    atkins diet scottie_81 Weight Loss 8 01-06-2006 09:42 AM
    Transition from Atkins to 'normal' low caloric/low fat/ exercise regime? Charlie_Murphy Diet & Nutrition 38 03-12-2004 07:52 AM
    Atkins Lies DonutsNCoffee Diet & Nutrition 70 01-09-2004 08:17 AM




    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Search this Thread:

    Advanced Search

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is Off
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are Off
    Pingbacks are Off
    Refbacks are Off




    Sign Up Today!

    Ask our community of thousands of members your health questions, and learn from others experiences. Join the conversation!

    I want my free account

    All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:03 AM.





    © 2020 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved.
    Do not copy or redistribute in any form!