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  • Transition from Atkins to 'normal' low caloric/low fat/ exercise regime?

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    Old 03-09-2004, 08:29 AM   #31
    auntjudyg
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    Re: Transition from Atkins to 'normal' low caloric/low fat/ exercise regime?

    zip, In Atkins' view, the saturated fats ARE healthy. Where's the dichotomy? And Atkins' recommendation is fat at 60 percent of calories. So trying to do a low carb-low fat thing is not Atkins.

    On another forum, there is someone who follows a guy named Kwasniewski and I don't know who else's ideas might be in the mix. But he insists that low carb-low fat is one of the worst combinations. Also, he promotes fat at 70 percent of calories, and says, if you are not going to go that high, it is better to keep them below 30 percent, because the worst risk for heart trouble is eating in the range inbetween.

     
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    Old 03-09-2004, 03:19 PM   #32
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    Re: Transition from Atkins to 'normal' low caloric/low fat/ exercise regime?

    I appreciate all the work and time you two (sean & jdimassimo) have in your conversations, but maybe you guys could exchange emails or something.....

    I don't know bout anyone else but I have no Idea what you guys are talking bout?? useing them big fantsy words!!! most folks won't understand what you guys are rattling on bout.... confuseing to me!!! IF your trying to help others on here please write in layman's terms.
    Thank You!

     
    Old 03-09-2004, 03:41 PM   #33
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    Re: Transition from Atkins to 'normal' low caloric/low fat/ exercise regime?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chevyman
    I appreciate all the work and time you two (sean & jdimassimo) have in your conversations, but maybe you guys could exchange emails or something.....

    I don't know bout anyone else but I have no Idea what you guys are talking bout?? useing them big fantsy words!!! most folks won't understand what you guys are rattling on bout.... confuseing to me!!! IF your trying to help others on here please write in layman's terms.
    Thank You!
    I understand what you are saying, but its probably not a bad idea to try to understand this stuff, especially if your are going to go on a diet like Atkins. You need to make educated decisions that will effect your health. I'll define the only words I used that might not be understood:

    glucogen: the term for the blood glucose that used by the muscles as fuel. glucogen can only be created by carbohydrates.

    BMR : This is an acronym for the term "Basal Metabolic Rate." - the BMR is derived from a calculation that determines how many calories a person needs to exist (with no activity). In other words the calories the body requires to breathe, pump blood, and that sort of thing. The BMR takes into consideration your existing weight, height, age, and gender.

     
    Old 03-10-2004, 04:53 AM   #34
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    Re: Transition from Atkins to 'normal' low caloric/low fat/ exercise regime?

    Auntjudy,

    Yes I agree with what you say the Atkins diet IS....but so many adherents try to "sugar coat" it with the olive oil-fish and yummy vegetable nonsense. Are they afraid to say "We are on a high fat- high SATURATED fat diet?"
    So many times an Atkinsite will say that they are portrayed in an improper light by detractors who keep talking about bacon and egg breakfasts. Well from my experience a bacon and egg breakfast is THE representative breakfast!
    Putting forward the 1 in 5000 who steams a little bit of FLAX SEED and eats it with 6 Macadamia nuts is so much hooey.


    Let's have a little honesty ala':
    "If you are willing to ignore (without proof) the evidence that a diet very heavily weighted towards saturated fats will harm your heart in 30 years then Atkins will USUALLY give you the fastest initial weight loss of any common diet."

    And yes, I found that 70% fat (30-40% saturated) is about the average of all those I've communicated with on several forums over the years! And yes, it was always what I drifted to with ease when I "followed the book."

    (Look for the lawsuits soon- they are as inevitable as the incoming tide (a Canute moment!))

    Last edited by zip2play; 03-10-2004 at 05:03 AM.

     
    Old 03-10-2004, 06:13 AM   #35
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    Re: Transition from Atkins to 'normal' low caloric/low fat/ exercise regime?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zip2play
    so many adherents try to "sugar coat"
    I honestly haven't run into this . . . just that one lady who work(ed)[?] at the Atkins center and made statement about having to reconsider fat. Though admittedly there is only one predominantly Atkins forum I visit with any frequently; and while several on that site pursue a low-carb/low-fat regime, the overwhelming majority are quite realistic about the saturated fat.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zip2play
    Well from my experience a bacon and egg breakfast is THE representative breakfast!
    Mine, too. And I tend to suspect that many if not most ignore his recommendation to avoid nitrates.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zip2play
    Let's have a little honesty ala':
    "If you are willing to ignore (without proof) the evidence that a diet very heavily weighted towards saturated fats will harm your heart in 30 years then Atkins will USUALLY give you the fastest initial weight loss of any common diet."
    Well, I don't agree that they have proved that saturated fats harm your heart. There are many problems with the alleged "proof" and much antidotal evidence does not back it up either. Atkins stressed that it was desirable to eat organic at least in terms of produce, I don't remember him going into the quality of meat and how it was raised (though I have not read Atkins more recent books), which is the problem here, IMHO - not all saturated fat is created equal.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zip2play
    (Look for the lawsuits soon- they are as inevitable as the incoming tide (a Canute moment!))
    We've been hearing this for so long, but who knows? Maybe we'll see them soon after we get all the documented cases of liver and kidney failure they also keep talking about.

     
    Old 03-10-2004, 09:37 AM   #36
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    Re: Transition from Atkins to 'normal' low caloric/low fat/ exercise regime?

    jdimassimo,
    Question Do to have proff that the "New Dr Atkins Diet Revolution" diet program is not any good for the human body on a long term use? when a person follows his(Atkins) program the way he intentended? and followed it correctly!

     
    Old 03-10-2004, 03:50 PM   #37
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    Re: Transition from Atkins to 'normal' low caloric/low fat/ exercise regime?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chevyman
    jdimassimo,
    Question Do to have proff that the "New Dr Atkins Diet Revolution" diet program is not any good for the human body on a long term use? when a person follows his(Atkins) program the way he intentended? and followed it correctly!
    Chevyman - I guess that is what the controversy is all about with Atkins - while there is not "proof" that the Atkins diet, if followed correctly, is unhealthy, there is certainly proof that components of it can pose health risks to many individuals. And the people who are at greatest risk are often the people who need to lose the most weight.

    I think people who generally have poor eating habits are at risk because they tend to interpret the diet in a way that leans toward a very unhealthy diet. These are the people who will eat a whole pound of cold cuts for dinner, eat an entire package of bacon in one sitting, and eat 5 steaks in a day without regard to calories, sodium, and cholesterol. People who are extremely overweight are at even a greater risk for high cholesterol, high blood pressure, coronary disease, diabetes, and thyroid problems. And again, while there is not "proof" that Atkins will directly cause these ailments, there is proof that eating a diet high in saturated fat, high in cholesterol, and high protein, will increase the liklihood of some or all of these conditions.

    On the other hand, there is proof that eating a diet that is based on the BMR (caloric needs of the individual) will result in long-term weight loss. There is also proof that increasing dietary fiber (from complex carbs) will protect the body from cancer, heart disease, and other serious conditions.

    Regardless of what diet you choose you should consider that extremes in any direction can be dangerous. For example - eating a diet heavy in processed starches (white flour, sugar, etc) is bad for you and will cause heart disease, insulin resistance, and a variety of other problems. Also, a diet heavy on saturated fats and cholesterol will have the same result. This is why I believe that the middle ground is the safest road - a diet rich in healthy carbs/fiber (whole grains, veggies, etc) that is low in saturated fats and cholesterol (fish and lean meat), and that takes into consideration the caloric needs of the individual - its almost like a prescription that can't fail!

    Now I have a question for you How did you get the name "chevyman?" I have a 68 impala fastback SS... are you into the muscles?

    Last edited by modert; 03-11-2004 at 04:48 AM.

     
    Old 03-11-2004, 06:57 AM   #38
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    Re: Transition from Atkins to 'normal' low caloric/low fat/ exercise regime?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jdimassimo
    . . . People who are extremely overweight are at even a greater risk for high cholesterol, high blood pressure, coronary disease, diabetes, and thyroid problems. And again, while there is not "proof" that Atkins will directly cause these ailments, there is proof that eating a diet high in saturated fat, high in cholesterol, and high protein, will increase the liklihood of some or all of these conditions.
    The more I read, the more I am not convinced that these links have truly been established, on a number of fronts. (Granted, I'll say from the start that as a low-carber I am biased.)

    First, when you read an actual study or two, rather than summaries or, worse yet, press releases, it is very surprising to see how some studies are conducted, what they demonstrate, and what gets extracted as recommendations.

    When it comes to saturated fat studies, it is only recently that transfats have been identified as being distinct and worse than saturated fats, yet all those previous studies (and even recent ones) lump them together. So to my knowledge there has not been any study to date that looks at saturated fats separately (I would love to know whether anyone knows of one).

    But even that wouldn't satisfy me. My guess is that for the most part the saturated fats being studied come from commercially raised, antibiotic and hormone injected animals and from homogenized (and undoubtedly pasteurized) dairy products. Thus we cannot say anything about the safety of pasture feed livestock and whole, raw dairy products.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jdimassimo
    On the other hand, there is proof that eating a diet that is based on the BMR (caloric needs of the individual) will result in long-term weight loss.
    And what is the failure rate on these plans? That is what gave rise to low-carb plans, because they are addressing a situation that low-calorie plans do not and thus that make them more sustainable for some of us.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jdimassimo
    There is also proof that increasing dietary fiber (from complex carbs) will protect the body from cancer, heart disease, and other serious conditions.
    You are stating this as though it were not possible while following a low-carb plan. It is not difficult to get the 20 to 30 grams of fiber recommended from low-carb veggies. Plus, speaking from experience as one who has faced GI track issues, what I find almost as important as sufficient fiber is sufficient good fat, which tends to be missing in low-calorie plans.

     
    Old 03-12-2004, 07:52 AM   #39
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    Re: Transition from Atkins to 'normal' low caloric/low fat/ exercise regime?

    hi,
    I have got off the Atkins diet....I just don't know what to do or who to believe anymore???.........I been thinking bout going back to the low portions sizes and just be hungry all the time!!! and do my exercises..............thats just bout as healthy as you can get!!!...just getting soooo tired worry bout my weight.

    Jdimssimo
    I love chevy trucks...even tho my better half likes Fords!
    the obviously reason for my screen name! .... lol

     
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