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Ankh 07-07-2006 10:31 AM

ketosis:fruit & veggies
 
hi there

i am hoping someone can clarify this:

is it possible for someone to experience ketosis if only eating fruit anf vegetables (since fuit and veggies are carbs)?

It would obviously depend on the amount of fruit and veggies eaten,bt realistically, is it easy to reach ketosis only on those foods and how much of these foods would possibly have to be consumed to prevent ketosis?

also....would you consider ketosis as a good thing or a bad thing?

6foot3 07-07-2006 10:54 AM

Re: ketosis:fruit & veggies
 
Not sure where your getting your info but fruit and vege's alone will not put you in ketosis. Without going into an bio-cellular dissertation ....only fat and protein will/can be used as primary fuel as once your blood glucose and muscle glycogen stores are used up then you'll incorporate ketones (fats) for fuel.You would not want to be in ketosis as your 300 trillion cells love glucose for fuel (ATP). Again only during fasting or high fat/protein diets will alllow ketosis to happen.

Ankh 07-07-2006 12:06 PM

Re: ketosis:fruit & veggies
 
thanx for you reply.

i get what you saying, but i mean that if no extra protein and fats are being consumed?is it possible to run out of the sufficient glucose needed before going into ketosis by only consuming fruits and veggies?

serafina 07-07-2006 12:28 PM

Re: ketosis:fruit & veggies
 
If your diet is too low in calories, which a solely fruit and vege diet could easily be, I think that ketosis can occur.

6foot3 07-07-2006 03:24 PM

Re: ketosis:fruit & veggies
 
[QUOTE=Ankh]is it possible to run out of the sufficient glucose needed before going into ketosis by only consuming fruits and veggies?[/QUOTE]
O.K. i think i see where your going here on this and i'm not sure how low of calorie count with just carbs you'd have to go . I would think you'd be in a starvation state to get that low so my question is why is this a concern to be in ketosis. Although fats are a denser calorie than carbs, carbs are still the bodies prefered fuel. Look at power lifters and NFL football players for example... as they all use carbs for ATP energy and they do not go into ketosis for energy or they would suffer energy loss. I wish you'd be more specific as to why this thought. You have me curious.....later !!

Betty325062000 07-07-2006 09:17 PM

Re: ketosis:fruit & veggies
 
Ketoacidosis is the result of uncontrolled diabetes and must be taken very seriously. That is one mechanism that brings on diabetic coma. My understanding of it is that uncontrolled is the key. It could happen with any diet, any medication or any combination of these. Fruits and veggies are carbohydrates and carbs are what raise blood glucose.

Many people advocate ketosis as a way to loose weight. Elevated blood glucose is not a part of ketosis.

Personally I do not want to ever have ketones. The same test strip is used to identify both conditions. Ketones are tested with a test strip using urine.

BVan (Betty)

Mark1e 07-08-2006 03:21 AM

Re: ketosis:fruit & veggies
 
[QUOTE=Ankh]... if no extra protein and fats are being consumed, is it possible to run out of the sufficient glucose needed before going into ketosis by only consuming fruits and veggies?[/QUOTE]
If you are not eating protein and fat, going into ketosis would suggest that you are starving yourself. You aren't getting enough calories from the fruit and veggies to satisfy your calorific needs. Stored fat/protein is being converted into energy. And if you keep it up, you will lose weight.

Ketocidosis is quite different in that it is caused by a lack of insulin and typically is accompanied by high blood sugar in Type 1 diabetics. Very high levels of keytones are indeed dangerous. Dietary ketosis, on the other hand is a healthy state to be in. Our paleolithic ancestors relied on dietary fat as the primary source of energy, and they were in ketosis most of the time. They obviously thrived on it and, if we still ate like they did there wouldn't be nearly as much diabetes around.

Cheers,

Mark ;)

Lenin 07-08-2006 04:45 AM

Re: ketosis:fruit & veggies
 
Ankh,

Ketones (well, not really but a couple aldehydes) are generated when the body burns excess amounts of fat. Normal fat burning is nearly complete but IF the body is burning excess fats just to get at the small glycemic part of the triglyceride (about 10%) for glucose to feed the brain, some excess fat is tossed off as these very acidic particles. In excess it's the ketoacidosis of diabetes and starvation. They are hard on the body.

So yes, you could go into ketosis if:
1. You are not producing enough insulin to digest your carbs (diabetes)
2. You are starving
3. You are eating VERY few carbohydrates.

If you eat ENOUGH fruit to supply the BRAIN'S caloric needs, then #3 is not a possible reason. But if you are eating fruit alone and only to the tune of << 400 calories or so and nothing else, then you have both #2 and #3 in play.

If you eat protein with your fruit, then the body will get the glucose from the protein (40% convertible to glucose) and "ketosis" won't be likely.

Ankh 07-09-2006 01:55 AM

Re: ketosis:fruit & veggies
 
wow...thank you for those brilliant explanations.

i ask all of this, because to detox i normally only eat fruit and veggies, but i dont want my body to go into ketosis...
sorry, for going on and on and on about it, but my next question would be: how do you know if your body is experiencing ketosis without making use of those strips....

[B]people complain about an awful metallic taste and bad breath, but are there any better or more explanable "symptoms"....[/B]
Also...so we know ketosis is an "unnatural" method of losing weight (atkins), but why do some people still do it...simply because they are desperate?or because they dont know?

6foot3 07-09-2006 10:44 AM

Re: ketosis:fruit & veggies
 
You can tell usually when your energy levels drop like a rock ( in ketosis)Usually happens 24/48 hours after no carbs or very low caloric intake.

Actually ketosis is not ''an unnatural way to lose weight'' as the body allows this to happen in times of starvation as this keeps you alive after the blood sugar (glucose) is used up. Also during sleep your body uses ketones while your deep sleeping. But why people choose this all the time (atkins) well it lets you loose fat without exercise......

Betty325062000 07-09-2006 11:53 AM

Re: ketosis:fruit & veggies
 
[QUOTE=6foot3] your blood glucose and muscle glycogen stores are used up then you'll incorporate ketones (fats) for fuel.You would not want to be in ketosis as your 300 trillion cells love glucose for fuel (ATP). Again only during fasting or high fat/protein diets will alllow ketosis to happen.[/QUOTE]

I understand the basic question to be "is it possible" and the only parameter given is that the diet is only fruit and veggies. The physical state of the fruit and veggie eater is not specified and therefore would apply to all. There are those that a fruit diet would make their blood glucose soar. Ketoses would then be present and progress to ketoacidosis. If a diet of only fats and carbs instead of one of fruits and veggies could develop ketoses. If there is sufficient insulin usage the burning of fat could produce ketons. I can easily eat enough fruit and veggies to supply a more than adequate amount of calories. If my insulin supply is inadequate (it is) I would produce ketones and not having fasted or eaten protein. Ketones is an ongoing is debatable. Ketoaccidosis is not.

What are you trying to detoxify from? Are you diabetic or do you have utilization of insulin available to cover the carbs. Are you asking about ketosis or Ketoacidosis? Many eat low carb, which would drastically reduce fruit, and look on ketosis as desirable. I do not subscribe to that and do not want any ketosis.

A fruity, sweet smell comes with ketoaccidosis. I had a diabetic child before home blood glucose testing came to be. Nights are scary under those circumstances. Before I went to bed each night and often if I awoke during the night I would give my sleeping daughter a kiss on the forehead. When ketones were present I could smell them.

Ankh 07-10-2006 11:47 AM

Re: ketosis:fruit & veggies
 
well i just like to detox,because i feel better and in the beginning i feel pretty week...bt then i start feeling energetic.

i am curious about this phenomena because i do not want to carry on only eating fruit and veggies to detox if i am harming my body(i know i have to take in protein which is why i eat natural fat free yoghurt for my protein intake as well as fat free milk).

i do not have any condition such as diabetes or something.
so there are 2 processes: ketosis and ketoacidosis (i feel so stupid cos i studied this last year, and i didnt want to ask the prof for more indepth questions at the time).

Lenin 07-13-2006 05:48 AM

Re: ketosis:fruit & veggies
 
Ankh,

Buy a tin of ketostix at any drug store...they aren't expensive and a canful of 50 will last a LONG time. Then you'll know for sure.

If you want to know the sweet smell of ketosis very clearly, sniff a bottle of unscented fingernail polish...that's it almost exactly (acetone). Super ripe bananas come close.

With a lot of fruit, ketosis is EXTREMELY unlikely for a non-diabetic unless he's at starvation level.


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