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lap nissen reversed


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Old 03-30-2011, 01:24 PM   #1
Tahoetonia
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Unhappy lap nissen reversed

I am 18 months post-op and still have many problems from the Lap Nissen surgery.
I recently had an Empty Gastric Study that showed gastroparesis.

I have a specialist that thinks my problem is in my esophagus more than my stomach and it is the reason for my continued weight loss and trouble swallowing. I have been on TPN twice since last March to gain weight. Within a month of being off of the TPN, I lose most of the weight.

I had the wrap stretched just 5 months ago. My specialists recommendation is to reverse the Lap Nissen wrap.

My question is how successful is the reversal and what is the recovery time?

My life has been turned upside down for the last two years and I am ready to be half way normal again, even if it means I will have reflux again...

I want to be able to eat when, what and how much I want without the nausea.

Please post any help, for this decision will need to be made quickly.

Tahoetonia

 
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:39 AM   #2
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Re: lap nissen reversed

Hi,

I recently had fundoplication surgery and looking to have it reversed also. I have come across a couple of posts on the net of people who have had it undone.

I'm trying to get second opinions from other surgeons because I want to know all the risks involved and the likely outcome. The surgeon that did my wrap didn't provide my partner and myself with enough info before having this operation, my reflux was very mild and really should have been to mild for an operation this drastic as I now have bloating, nausea, IBS and a tightness and pulling high in my throat that the surgeon said was due to my wrap being to tight but would go away with time. I can't do a decent burp
to relieve any of the bloating, I can do very small burbs sometimes when drinking liquids but they are so small.

My surgeon said he will undo it but does not know of the outcome ? He said it may help with the bloating but doesn't seem to think it will help my nausea or IBS, but to be honest I don't believe him, I think my nausea is caused by the bloating ?

I think it's important to consider how bad your reflux was prior to surgery, some people have been told having stomach surgery can actually cause reflux even if you never had it in the first place so I think there may be a chance of the reflux returning worse than it was before the reversal - I don't know how small the odds are of this happening but I will definitely be asking the surgeons I'm visiting for second opinions.

I have read of 5 people on various forums that have had reversals done. I have tried to contact them all but they are old posts and aren't active on the sites anymore so it's hard to know how they are doing long term.

Of the 5 that had reversals done 3 were doing better from having the reversal, 1 had the reflux return but still felt better than having the wrap and the other 2 didn't have any reflux at the time of their last posts ( again don't know about long term though ).

Of the other 2 cases I have come across, one had a full 360 taken down to a partial then eventually undone completely over a 1 1/2 to 2 years. He was complaining that he still could not burp properly and it felt as if he still had a wrap in place. He also said that he was getting reflux symptoms worse than before having the first operation but it was still very early after his op, I think a matter of weeks so things were probably still swollen trying to heal - I don't know how things turned out for him as he stopped posting very early on.

The last person I was able to contact. She had reflux for about 7 years before having fundoplication surgery. She had the wrap for about 5 years, started developing severe bloating, discomfort, problems swallowing about 5 months after having the surgery.

After having the wrap for 5 years her new surgeon decided that the only thing left to do was to take the wrap down. She had it undone didn't get reflux back for 6 months after the takedown. Unfortunately she had bad reflux before the first surgery and meds didn't seem to help her much. She was at grade 2 erosion before the first op, 9 months after getting the reflux back after the reversal was done she was at grade 4 erosion.

It sounds as if she has some other health problems going on that have made her reflux very bad. Her new surgeon is now going to give her a partial wrap as her erosion is really bad so she needs some sort of protection.

Here recovery was harder with the take down than the original fundoplication as she had tubes in for a few days, also because she had the wrap for 5 years she had a lot of scare tissue. They were able to do key whole though.

Some advice that I was recently given was, don't rush into anything, make sure you get second opinions from others and make sure nothing else is causing any of your problems before having another operation.

How bad was your reflux to begin with ?

What symptoms did you have ?

Did you have a Hiatal Hernia ?

Just curious, do you have a copy of your 24hr PH study results and if so what was your
de meester score ?

I have recently got copies of my PH study and my score was so low that I can't believe
my surgeon did this operation, he never disclosed the score to me or sent a copy to my GP. I feel as if he wanted to do this operation regardless of if I wanted or needed it done. I just hope I can have it reversed and I will be the same as before and not any worse ?

Gastroboy.

 
Old 04-12-2012, 07:03 PM   #3
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Re: lap nissen reversed

Your surgeon performed a Nissen on someone with a Demeester score of 1? That might be considered malpractice, if you want to talk to a lawyer.

Did you ever have manometry done? You might have esophageal spasms or "nutcracker" LES, rather than weak LES.

Definitely, find the best gastroenterologist you can find, preferably one who works at a teaching hospital. Are you anywhere near northern NJ, by any chance?

 
Old 04-13-2012, 01:03 AM   #4
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Re: lap nissen reversed

Hi Janewite1,

Yes the surgeon did do a full 360 fundoplication on me and my Demeester score was as I have recently found out 1.

I'm as mad as hell about this, my GP and I should have been informed but were not. He didn't tell my partner and myself lots of other things that would have made me not want to go ahead with this operation as well.

Like I mentioned before, I think he wanted to do this op regardless and I wouldn't want it done if I or my GP had access to the test results.

Could you fill me in more on nutcracker LES ? I did have a small Hiatal Hernia and some Asthma like breathing problems form time to time, but they were mild and not around all the time like the effects of the fundoplication.

I'm on the other side of the sand pit - Australia. I'm currently trying to get some second opinions from more responsible surgeons. I had a GI appointment this week, he said he finds my story bizarre, I think he was being very diplomatic.

I have to take some of the blame for my situation myself. I should have not trusted the surgeon so much, I started to have some doubts about this surgery and did a little research online, was concerned and told my partner about it. She said don't believe what you read online, she was convinced the surgeon would have told us about the stuff I was reading if any of it was true.

I think malpractice would be the right word to use, right now I just want some honest advice on reversal.

It's a funny thing, I never ever had burning from reflux before this operation. Now after having the operation that is supposed to fix it my mouth and upper throat burns quite often after eating ? My GP put me on Nexium after the op but took me off them as I was having a lot of nausea and IBS before hand and he didn't want to possibly make things worse with the Nexium.

If I could give anyone advice about this surgery it would be don't have it unless you have severe reflux. Don't buy into the marketing campaign about it's cheaper than having to take pills in the long run - that's how it's being marketed here by some anyway.

Anyway if anyone has more info on reversals please post it here and help everyone considering a reversal out.

Thanks,

Gastroboy.

Last edited by Administrator; 08-23-2012 at 10:06 AM.

 
Old 04-13-2012, 07:07 AM   #5
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Re: lap nissen reversed

Basically, any score under 14 is considered normal. But if you have such a very low score, it may be that your LES is too active, which can also cause digestive problems. It's sometimes called nutcracker esophagus. Don't know that much about it, but I've met someone who has it.

Reversals aren't all that common, I'm afraid, but from what I understand, they are usually successful in returning your GI tract to its original state.

 
Old 04-13-2012, 04:25 PM   #6
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Re: lap nissen reversed

Hi Janewhite1,

Thanks for the info on nutcracker esophagus, I will definitely be asking the GI doctor and other surgeons about that.

The surgeon that did my op said that he would reverse it if I wanted but he doesn't know of the outcome. He said it may help with the bloating, he has never left one undone before. He said that he has done thousands of these operations and has done second fundoplication operations on failed wraps, he said that basically when they do a second surgery they undo the wrap before starting again, it's just that he has never left one undone.

I think he is a good surgeon it's just that I don't know if I can trust him not to fob me off if something was to go wrong. He hasn't been that honest with us before and after this surgery so I really want to find another skilled surgeon that I can trust & tells you everything you need to know - the good and the bad before doing anything.

Thanks,

Gastroboy.

 
Old 05-26-2012, 09:15 AM   #7
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Angry Re: lap nissen reversed

thx. for your posts; i am 10 months post op partial wrap with hernia repair; i felt i only needed a hernia fix and not the wrap; i live on shakes and my nausea is intolerable, daily, debilitating and extreme with intense stomach pains and forget about swallowing as everything i try gets stuck; my surgeon says i'm fine; my gi says don't do more surgery as i may end up same or worse and another surgeon ordered a gastric emptying to check for gastroparesis and another gave me more nausea meds which don't help; my reflux had been managed 5-10 yrs. prior before getting a hiatal hernia last spring and my life has been over since; i went to cleveland, oh which is 2 in country for gi but for one bloodtest there it was 1,070 bucks and they want to repeat all these tests and their prices r the most expensive u will find and they won't accept my 2nd insurance so i can't imagine how much anesthesia would be for another endo, 3rd this yr., and another emptying study and manometry and ph probe; i just can't afford to go back to ohio as i'm a single disabled mom losing my house and every financial asset i ever had due to this and am close to bankruptcy but i know in my heart i need either a takedown or an undo but no i don't want to go back to the world's worst heartburn i had either, however this nausea is not what i can learn to live with either so i feel very stuck and frustrated and scared out of my mind; would love to chat and share stories and maybe learn/help each other or at least provide support that we all in these gi diseases need; happy memorial day weekend to u and yours; i wish so bad i could eat but got my son some hotdogs and smores to cook as i drink my shakes as that is almost all i eat with maybe some gatorade, crunched up cheetos rolled in on a good day, mostly liquids; i try scrammbled eggs and they get stuck and i just have no appetite.

Last edited by hb-mod; 08-20-2012 at 05:42 AM.

 
Old 05-26-2012, 09:18 AM   #8
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Re: lap nissen reversed

thx. for posting; do u know with a reversal if the original hiatal hernia returns?; i am 10 months post op hernia repair and got talked into partial tummy wrap that i just don't think i needed; can't eat and live on shakes; my nausea is daily, intolerable, extreme and debililtating with intense stomach pains and forget swallowing as things get stuck; i either need an undo or a proper redo i think.



Quote:
Originally Posted by janewhite1 View Post
Basically, any score under 14 is considered normal. But if you have such a very low score, it may be that your LES is too active, which can also cause digestive problems. It's sometimes called nutcracker esophagus. Don't know that much about it, but I've met someone who has it.

Reversals aren't all that common, I'm afraid, but from what I understand, they are usually successful in returning your GI tract to its original state.

 
Old 08-20-2012, 12:59 AM   #9
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Re: lap nissen reversed

I want mine reversed too, Acid-reflux is worse now + No eating, Nausea and Bloating

 
Old 08-20-2012, 03:45 AM   #10
tyler1234
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Angry Re: lap nissen reversed

Quote:
Originally Posted by delfade View Post
I want mine reversed too, Acid-reflux is worse now + No eating, Nausea and Bloating
5 weeks ago I had mine reversed and more hernias fixed but then I got c diff and antibiotics r not working. I can't leave house due to explosive diarrhe and nausea and cramps and pains and dizzy. I'm glad I reversed it but now have a new huge battle that was unexpected. I'm anxious and dePressed and hysterical and lost my life quality 18 mo. Ago and feel so bad for my son as a single mom. We lost everything and we go nowhere and I still may die. I am sorry u r also one of the much unneeded horror stories of those very dangerous wraps. I don't regret undoing it unless I die. This gi stuff never ends and so many babies on up to seniors suffer greatly because of the wraps while the surgeons r just fine. I'm bankrupt too and on disability. I will Pray u find relief.

 
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Old 08-20-2012, 05:39 AM   #11
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Re: lap nissen reversed

Hello, I did many many surgeries that i can't count ! and im just 21 years old.

I know you can't live your life now, but find for everything a solution.. even if you can't ! Just try.
Step by step.. For the Diarrhea, Nausea.. and everything.

Go to a doctor who can fix these things, you need help.. you can't just stand and fight these things alone.

I really hope you get better and better !

I have acid reflux and asthma.. which means that I suffer from both of them on each side.

My breathing is on a very dangerous level, And I just stopped my college for a year.

The acid-reflux affected my life as you see.

I'm very depressed really, but we really should find a path.. which ends all of this.
There is always a door for these things.. You just have to find the key, And keep finding.

But can I ask you please, Did your acid-reflux stopped after the Reversed Nissen Fundoplication ?

Are you better after 5 weeks ?

I'm sure we can help each other !

Hope we get fine !

Fight it don't stop.

Last edited by hb-mod; 08-20-2012 at 05:45 AM. Reason: Please do not request any off-board contact, or post contact information. Thanks.

 
Old 08-20-2012, 06:25 AM   #12
tyler1234
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Re: lap nissen reversed

wow, u r way too young to have gone and be going thru so much; i applaud that and u r strong; thank u for your quotes; i will begin to say them; when u r shitting so bad u can't leave house and can't eat close to puking and feel faint and super sick with worst cramps/pains, u can't think straight and i have anxiety; yes, i can honestly say from my heart that all i really needed last summer was a hernia fix and i may need more hernia fixes in future BUT i never needed the wrap; how do i know this?; because i have no heartburn; now i'm not eating too many solids and living on shakes and have no intention ever even if do ever feel better to ever have a burger, fried, fatty stuff or sauce again; i would love a pepsi or coffee someday but never like i used too; yes the wrap stops heartburn but those tricky surgeons don't tell u the hell on earth it opens up cause they would lose business and money; if u get other opinions in this country, they will b many and differing; somehow i knew i had picked the right surgeon to undo it but some won't and some will want to do a redo on u which could also make u worse but they won't tell u that; now i didn't count on c diff or whatever infection i have which is killing me so i must now forget the past 18 mo. and start today fighting my new disease; i take zofran for nausea, xanax which sometimes slows violent diarrhea and calms me down and sometimes doesn't; yes, i am looking for the right doc on the right day to begin healing me and it drives me crazy when things go in the opposite direction; i'm waiting now for many stool samples to come back and the waiting is literally killing me; i am sorry u still have reflux and have asthma and that u had to postpone college; what is your major?; i remember when i had reflux with my hernia and i literally don't know how i made it thru those days as anything i tried to eat made me explode inside and even not eating caused bad nausea and pain; u really have to do your homework cause last summer i shook the hand of the wrong surgeon only and trusted him when he said i'd b better. many r in our boat from babies to seniors; i'm a single mom on disability with 5 back hernias, bum ankle, arthritis, thyoid and dental issues and i'm bankrupt and i feel SO bad for my son as his only parent; he is busy which is good except i don't c him too much and i miss him but he must carry on and be a kid even without me and that is a hard pill to take. i will keep fighting but it is beyond hard for m, u and many; i will pray for healing and relief for u and that we both find the right treatment to make us better and increase our life quality. do u use the nebulizer for your asthma or meds and do they help?; i can't believe u had a Nissan and u still have reflux; what is your diet like?; i only had the partial Toupet and it was hell but hey i had no heartburn as the surgeons say. if they gave each patient on consult a list of all the longterm lifetime complications that can happen they would have more free time. do u take a PPI?; i take protonix but there r others; that might help twice a day or drugs like ranitidine or pepto or maalax or mylanta; now pepto will make your tongue and poop black. the blandest diet u can do is best for u now.

 
Old 08-20-2012, 10:39 AM   #13
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Re: lap nissen reversed

I told my surgeon that I have acid reflux and high asthma, and food is hard to swallow.
he was surprised of a tight nissen wrap and an acid reflux !

he told me that I have 2 solutions.

(Stretching the wrap by endoscopy) Or (Reverse Nissen by keyhole surgery).
But he said that he will be disappointed if he reversed it.

Well i'll have a Reverse Nissen ! Because if i stretched the wrap maybe things will go worse and worse.

So its better to have my normal stomach back, And live suffering from the acid as a HALF NORMAL PERSON.

I have feelings that things will be worse, And my life will be on fire and i'll stop working and stay at home if things went dangerous.

As i said there's a big chance i'll end up with an esophageal cancer.

My Nissen went really bad, So I'll reverse it to get rid of (Bloating+Dysphagia+Bad Acid-Reflux and Asthma)

But i'll never stop going to doctors.

I guess we have to try, Maybe things will be better than we imagine !

Be hopeful

Don't forget to look for doctors and work harder for your health.

But look for a very very good doctor, Who can shortcut everything for you !

Thank You, Wish you the best.

Last edited by Administrator; 08-20-2012 at 05:43 PM.

 
Old 08-20-2012, 11:31 AM   #14
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Re: lap nissen reversed

yes, swallowing is very difficult with a wrap and if u can drink shakes like Ensure, u might want to consider; have u already been diagnosed with Barrett's esophagus?; so if doc says u will get Barretts u must think hard if an undo is worth it if cancer could come after the undo; i have a dilation and it provided relief for only a day but that gave my 2nd surgeon the proof he needed my undo might work; yes, as long as u r suffering, never stop seeking treatment that would provide relief; i understand your dilemma in deciding whether an undo will work for u if u get cancer but if u don't do it, then your symptoms r still intolerable; if u do undo, u can always stay on reflux meds,all of them if necessary; i too had to decide if the undo was what i really wanted as my gi said if i did the undo, that my heartburn and hernia might return especially cause i've had 5 back herniations on the same side of my body; now i know i may get more hernias in future but my symptoms with the wrap in me were intolerable and i got MANY opinions before deciding; i now am struggling for my life with c diff or whatever infection is killing me; i will pray we both find the right treatment that heals us with no side effects or issues. this gi stuff is gutwretching and very hard to make decisions that affect the rest of our lives not knowing what exactly will happen next; i'm scared but i drove by a sign yesterday that said have faith with uncertainty ahead so i will try as does all with these horrible diseases. i had both procedures done lap and undo was done with DiVinci Robotic tool. so did your doc already say u will definitely get Barrett's or is that a fear of yours hopefully right now?; i have severe anxiety and i've been jumping the gun in fast forward thinking i might die and leave my kid behind; it's so hard when u r so sick to think clearly; patients either need to take a chill pill or something for it or get an advocate that help. i've never been thru anything medical this horrific in my life.

 
Old 08-21-2012, 04:41 AM   #15
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Re: lap nissen reversed

No he told me not to worry about the esophageal cancer, But from my measure on the acid-reflux.. I would say there is a possibility to have one.

I must stop it by changing my food, lifestyle and everything.

And that will be very hard, but i'll try !

After few hours i'll have my reverse nissen.

And about your issue, Tyler it's not late to fix things.
Believe me most of your disease are curable; there are too many Doctors out there who studied, worked hard and have experience just to fix problems like yours.

Wish you the best

Last edited by hb-mod; 08-21-2012 at 04:43 AM.

 
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