It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Family & Friends of Addicts and Alcoholics Message Board

  • Eeyore

  • Post New Thread   Closed Thread
    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Old 09-05-2003, 12:37 PM   #1
    Monday1954
    Senior Veteran
     
    Join Date: Jul 2003
    Location: Huntsville
    Posts: 557
    Monday1954 HB User
    Post Eeyore

    I am not sure if this should go here or to the relationship board, that board seems to deal with romantic problems rather than mother/daughter.

    Eeyore, how long did it take your parents to reach the place where they no longer wanted to deal with your problems? I am about at the end of my rope and it really frightens me. Right now I am so angry with my daughter that I want to strangle her or at least hit her to knock some sense into her. I am refraining, but barely.

    I know the 12 steps, also know about detaching with love, not letting anger control me and all of the other steps to take to help yourself.

    One of you tell me please, what does it take to get clean and stay clean? Does anything, anyone tell you make any difference? I feel I have tried it all, understanding, being supportive, being silent, yelling, crying, begging and pleading -so far none of the above reached her at all. Could she be unreachable?

     
    Sponsors Lightbulb
       
    Old 09-05-2003, 12:47 PM   #2
    Hopefortoday
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jul 2003
    Posts: 707
    Hopefortoday HB User
    Post

    If she's using, yes . . . she's unreachable. You're dealing with the drugs and not your daughter. No amount of begging, pleading, crying, talking to, etc. etc. etc. is going to get through to her. Trust me, I know.

    She'll reach her bottom at some point and want to get help. Just keep working those steps and going to meetings in the meantime. Take care of yourself and be patient! Good luck.


     
    Old 09-05-2003, 01:19 PM   #3
    Monday1954
    Senior Veteran
     
    Join Date: Jul 2003
    Location: Huntsville
    Posts: 557
    Monday1954 HB User
    Post

    Thanks Hope, patience is unfortunatly not one of my best virtues. I know from your posts that you have stayed with Very Lucky and I do admire you for that, not sure I would have had the fortitude.

    The first few times I was more understanding and less angry, in fact, I was more hurt and dis-believing than angry. The next few times, just as hurt but not so naive, now I am just angry - deep, furious anger.

    She hasn't asked us for any help this time, in fact she told me she is never going to discuss it with me again, ever. I don't know how to interpret this, it could be a good sign, then again it could be a sign that things have gone downhill and she continues to lie and coverup.



     
    Old 09-05-2003, 02:47 PM   #4
    Hopefortoday
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jul 2003
    Posts: 707
    Hopefortoday HB User
    Post

    Monday . . . I have felt everything you describe!! Addicts have a way of playing games and manipulating the situation as to turn things around on loved ones to attempt to make them feel guilty, not worthy, angry . . . you name it. Just have faith in your Higher Power! That's what helped me more than anything else!

    Take care of yourself and may God bless you!

     
    Old 09-05-2003, 06:50 PM   #5
    eeyore714
    Senior Member
     
    Join Date: Jul 2003
    Posts: 113
    eeyore714 HB User
    Post

    Hi Monday,
    good to see you still here. I don't have time to write a good response to you tonight, but I will check back in tomorrow and share some of my and my family's experiences. One thing I can say is that the best thing you can do is to take care of yourself and find ways to take the focus off of your daughter, even if for only a little bit.
    Since my parents officially "banned" me from their house, I do know through the grapevine that they have been doing more together as a couple, and getting involved in trying some new activities/interests that they had neglected for so long.
    As much as it hurts that they no longer really want much contact with me, I am also so glad that they are going out and having fun and resuming their personal interests. I know that for a period of time, my actions made them so miserable that they weren't really enjoying life...since they were so focused on me and what I would do next.
    I know this is easier said than done, but try to spend some time doing something special just for yourself, even if to take your mind off of your daughter for a bit. Unfortunately the bottom line is that while there is lots that you can do to help her...until she decides to make a concerted effort to change her life, there is little you can do to make that happen.
    I can only imagine how hard it is, and how frustrating and rage-inducing to watch someone you love destroy herself and those around her, and feel helpless to stop it. Please take care of yourself!
    Jeez, even when I start out intending to have a short message I drone on...but again, not much time tonight, but please check in tomorrow Monday, and I will share some of what my family went through, and what finally caused them to pull away, and how it is going for all of us now.
    I'll be sending prayers your way. you are obviously a loving, good mother and I respect that (and miss it
    ) so much.

     
    Old 09-06-2003, 09:16 PM   #6
    eeyore714
    Senior Member
     
    Join Date: Jul 2003
    Posts: 113
    eeyore714 HB User
    Post

    Hi again Monday,
    OK, here is a run-down of my parent's actions/reactions to my addiction.
    When my problem came to light, due to my being "busted" for writing a fake prescription, my parents were quite shocked. They were scared, angry, worried...the whole range of emotions. At that time, they were quite supportive, and also felt that I deserved the 'real life' consequences that came from my actions. My father is a physician, and I had been using his prescription pads and DEA number, as well as that of his partners in his practice to obtain my drugs. When I was caught (and this was probably 1 1/2 years after I started doing this) his office manager was the one who initially got the call from the pharmacy who suspected it was fake. she confronted me, I denied it, and then she called my father. My father told her to go ahead and call the police on me, thus resulting in my arrest.

    My parents immediately tried to get me into a hospital for detox purposes, but noone would take me...saying that opiate detox isn't fatal, is just like the flu...my insurance didn't cover it, etc. etc. So I detoxed cold turkey at home. I had returned home after living on my own(at the age of 24 at this point) while I finished up my graduate studies in clinical social work. My mother was wonderful during my withdrawal, which as we know, is excruiating, especially without any type of medical assistance. She would stay up with me while I would literally scream from physical and mental discomfort. My father was less tolerant, but again, he was dealing with the shame of what my actions had done to his medical practice, and how now his employees and fellow doctors were looking at him. he was not happy with me to say the least.

    I enrolled in an outpatient program and stayed clean for maybe a month before I started using, and committing prescription fraud again. My parents found out, and against my wishes, sent me to inpatient rehab for a stay that ended up lasting three months. It was a wonderful experience. even though i did not stay clean afterwards, I am an advocate of going inpatient for any addict trying to get/stay clean. it was a lot of money, and my parents did pay. They also participated in the family weekend, which was a difficult time for all of us.

    After my rehab stay, I returned home to try to finish up graduate school and to of course try to stay clean. I did so for about six months, and then started using again. My parents found out about this relapse because I was arrested, again, about three months after my relapse. They got a call from the police who had me in custody telling them that I would most likely be able to be bailed out that night. They did come and bail me out. To say that they were angry with me would be putting it mildly. And that's very understandable.

    At this point, I think they really wanted me out of the house, but couldn't bring themselves to actually take that step yet. My trial lasted a long time, and it was about 10 months later that I was sentenced to a month in jail, followed by another three month stay in rehab. Again, i had stayed clean for several months after my second arrest, but had started using again. While in jail, they discovered that I had been using even after my second arrest. It was during a phone call while I was in jail that my mother informed me that I was no longer welcome in their home, and that they really did not want these issues in their family anymore. I was not even allowed to go home to get my belongings once I was released from jail to rehab, an adult friend went over and packed up my stuff.

    I think that it was/is hard for my parents to understand that I do not want to live like this. I want to be able to stay clean, and to stay happy. But it is so hard. In their minds, they just can't grasp why I keep "falling" and were furious about all that I kept putting the family through.

    We did not talk for quite a few months after my release from jail. I moved in with my boyfriend after I finished my three month stay in rehab. We do speak sporadically now, and I have been over to their house, but do not have a key and our relationship is very tense.

    I have hurt them in so many ways. I can only imagine the pain, the frustration, the shame, the anger, the fear....etc.etc. that they must have gone through. Incidentally, I never had a close relationship with either of my parents, although my mother and I were closer than my father and I. My father was emotionally abusive and had a raging temper when i was growing up, plus he was a work-aholic so I never saw him much, and when I did, he was always angry and yelling. I have an older brother who was physically abusive to me, well above and beyond "normal" sibling fights, and my parents never "protected" me from him, or even really acknowledged what was going on, even though my parents friends would call them with concerns about the bruises and injuries I would sustain.

    Frankly, I think my parents did the best they could have in terms of my addiction. They really tried to help me in the beginning, but with my continued relapses and legal trouble, they realized that I wasn't getting better despite their efforts.

    It is tough for me on an emotionally level, because I certainly never wanted to hurt them, and really wanted to stay clean to try to make them proud of me. But addiction is so much deeper than that. I have every reason to stay clean, and so many people that I will hurt even more if I relapse, but unfortunately all of that goes out of the window sometimes. On a logical level, I know that my parents have done what they needed to do for their own sakes.

    They have not been involved with Al-Anon or any support group...my fathers comment about that was something along the lines of why should he have to spend any more time dealing with my problem. They don't understand that those groups are for them...not about me, and that they need and deserve to be with people who can support them and truly understand where they are coming from.

    I have to echo what has been said before, that unfortunately, there may be little that you can do to make your daughter stop. Until she is ready to even make a small step in trying to change, I'm not sure that anything you do will precipatate that.

    Does she live with you? if so, you have more "bargaining" power so to speak, in that you can make her staying with you dependent on going to rehab, or counseling, or groups etc. and make it clear that she will not be able to continue living with you if she uses. If she doesn't live with you, I would still recommend offering to help her get to rehab, or counseling, etc.

    The best thing I think you can do for your daughter is to give her as much support and help as you can and are willing to do in terms of her getting the help she needs. The fact that my parents made it possible for me to go to inpatient was a wonderful gift. I am very grateful to them for that. The second rehab's fees obviously fell on my shoulders, and as the bill was $18,000 for three months, I'm in quite some debt!

    Please know that your daughter does not want to hurt you...she wants you to be happy, and I'm sure that if she were able to stop on her own, she would. It seems like you two have had a good relationship, and again, if it were just a matter of not using so as to not hurt you, I am sure she would have done so.

    She obviously has a serious problem, compounded by the fact that she isn't being completely honest about her problem, and the fact that she isn't willing to pursue help. At least that is what I'm assuming/remembering from your past posts.

    As hard as it might be, I do believe that the best thing you can do is to "detach with love" as they say. Make it clear that you love her, and will support her if she chooses to help herself, but that you can't accept being so involved with her as she destroys herself, and the family. To what extent you can detach, is obviously up to you. You deserve to be happy and to enjoy life, and to not be brought down so severely by her actions.

    I do know that my parents are happier now that they are not involved in my life. I think they kind of surrendered and said to themselves that hey, this is her life, and she has to deal with the consequences. And they are right. I have to keep trying to stay clean (I'm over a month now...for the millionth time it seems, but I'm still happy about it!) but it is such a struggle, everyday.

    I wish I could give you some quick, neat advice comprised of what exactly you could do to remedy this situation for you and your daughter. It seems like you are well-educated on addiction and obviously seek other's experiences, and that is wonderful. When your daughter decides to try to change her life, or when external circumstances arise that force her into trying to change, she obviously has a great ally in you for support.

    Until then, I can't stress enough how important it is to focus on yourself and do what makes you happy. I don't think it makes you a bad parent to seperate from your daughter, to whatever extent you want/can do. In many ways, it makes you a great parent because you are sending a message that she has a problem and needs to make changes.

    Well, as usual I've been long-winded and ultimately am not sure that I've been helpful at all! I know that both you and your daughter are hurting a lot right now, and I sincerely hope that changes. One of the biggest (and hardest!) lessons that I am learning through the past three years is that I am in charge of my own happiness. I have been stuck in my own internal jail, and while there are things that others can do to help me, it does ultimately have to be me that takes those steps and does the internal work to be "released."

    The same goes for the families of us who are addicts, I think. You ultimately have to take your happiness into your own hands, and make a decision to not let your daughter's difficulties consume you. I know, so much easier said than done! take it day by day, and be kind and caring to yourself. Your daughter knows that you are there for her, and it does have to be her desire to accept that support. If she's not ready, the best place to channel that energy is back on yourself.

    I hope that I've made some sense...let me know what is currently going on with you and your family.

     
    Old 09-06-2003, 10:52 PM   #7
    Monday1954
    Senior Veteran
     
    Join Date: Jul 2003
    Location: Huntsville
    Posts: 557
    Monday1954 HB User
    Post

    Eeyore, thanks for the reply, I tend to get carried away when I am trying to explain something too, so I don't consider your posts too long.

    I will try to put some order to my answers so they make sense.

    My daughter does not live with me, she is married and lives in a house. The house she lives in does belong to my family and I have threatened to make her move.
    She lives about 5 miles from us.

    She called me this afternoon to talk, we didn't talk very long and she tried to explain some things to me. One thing she said is she likes the way G makes her feel, she is in a good mood and doesn't have to worry about anything. My response was that life is not easy, you have to learn to function without being chemically altered. She replied that is what the addiction part is - always wanting to have that good feeling. She says she has quit on her own this time and maybe it will be the last. She does desire a different sort of life and for her sake I hope she is able to do it. I guess the good part of this is that as of yesterday afternoon she was never going to discuss any part of her addiction with me again. Said I brought it up too much. I am just guessing here, but I think she was in a bad state of mind and lashing out at me, after having time to think about what she said she must have realized I am not the one to bring it up continually, only when she passes out in front of me or when she is expected at some event that she will attend. I had told her prior to this last blow-up that I couldn't stop her but that just not to come around me while she was using.

    She went to one rehab center to detox, after she got out she went to one NA meeting and didn't like the people there, not her sort of people. HA! Snobbery from someone that has just survived her detox. G was not very well known, by us nor the medical people in our area. I believe she was their first GHB detox and they really didn't know what they were up against. I am not an expert by any means but from what I have heard detox from GHB is harder than any other substance. Some people die during detox, she nearly did, twice. I keep suggesting attending meetings but get no where. I did ask her if she had been honest with her counselor when she went a few weeks ago. She told me that she had and the dr. gave her an rx for Xanax to help with the anxiety caused by stopping G.
    I don't know if I believe her or not, she has lied to us about so many things (even things she doesn't have to) that I never know when she is telling the truth.

    One of the things that happened most recently and I hope brought her around was: My name and her name and my sons names are all on the bank account my son uses.
    The account was opened for them when they were 14 and 16 and couldn't open one on their own. This is the account my son and his wife use now. Last Saturday night my son called me just furious - they were going shopping to get some things for a beach trip and when he tried to take some money out of his savings account he couldn't get any and the balance was $4.92 - it takes $5.00 to keep the account open. She had taken his money - he called her and she told him she tried to get in touch with him and came up with some story about having to have the money on Sat. and was going to replace it Tuesday. I am sure she never intended for him to know she had taken his money. She did this before while he was in boot camp - cleaned out his bank account. He of course has asked that all names except his be removed, I understand. She never repaid him from the first wipe out. Relations are strained to say the least.

    I will let you know how her good resolve goes - I am keeping my fingers crossed. I am proud of you for being clean for one month - keep at it. You are going to get the same advice I gave her - life is tough, you just have to learn to deal with it. Whatever tools it takes to stay clean should be used. If that is NA meetings go to one every day, stay away from people that use drugs, and pray for the power to stay away from your DOC. - if you are depressed see your dr. and get some medication. Lame advice but I really do think it could work. Picture your life drug free, it will be much easier - no worrying about how to get it, no worrying about getting in legal trouble, no worrying about how you will get through the night, no worrying about parents and others disproval. There is always shame associated with drug addiction, be it from the addicts side or the family side.

    Good luck on staying clean and if you need any motherly advice I am here.

     
    Old 09-07-2003, 03:02 PM   #8
    Monday1954
    Senior Veteran
     
    Join Date: Jul 2003
    Location: Huntsville
    Posts: 557
    Monday1954 HB User
    Post

    Update since last night or should I say early this morning. After posting here I went to bed and prayed really hard - prayed for God to help me and her. I didn't know how or what to ask for except help from a higher power.

    My husband woke me up, said we needed to go to the hospital, a policeman had called and said we needed to get there asap and would meet us there.

    When we got to the ER and asked for our daughter the nurse told us she couldn't have visitors. We explained that a policeman had called and wanted us down there. She went away for a few minutes, came back and told us we could go in, but not to be shocked at her appearance - she was on a ventilator. Barely any pulse and very slow heart rate. She is home now, I took her to her house because that is where she wanted to go and I know that if she wants to use again there is nothing I can do to stop her. She now has some legal issues to deal with in addition to her addiction. Don't know how this will end up - I don't know if this was the answer to my prayer and I don't see it - or if it was answered and this will be the thing that makes her stop.

    Before we were allowed to take her home the dr. wanted to talk to her alone. She didn't really tell me all he said - just tried to get through to her how close she came to dying. A neighbor driving by saw her slumped at the wheel of her car at the edge of the driveway, she couldn't get her to rouse and she didn't think she was breathing so she called 911. I don't know who she is so I can thank her but she might be an angel sent to help.

     
    Old 09-07-2003, 03:55 PM   #9
    eeyore714
    Senior Member
     
    Join Date: Jul 2003
    Posts: 113
    eeyore714 HB User
    Post

    Oh Monday, I am so sorry to hear about this latest occurance. i think that what you went through is part of every parents worst nightmare...getting a call in the middle of the night from the police.
    I am glad that your daughter is physically ok.

    I think that "someone" (I hestitate to use any religious denomination, since I don't believe that there is one name, but I do definitely believe that their is a Higher Power...so as not to offend anyone, will just say someone) is sending her a big message.

    Lets hope she hears it loud and clear. this is also a great time for the family to really rally around her and try to give her that incentive to get help once and for all.

    What does her husband think of all of this? If you can enlist his aid in pushing her to make some changes, all the better. What will her legal problems entail? That may be a blessing in disguise, because almost every time the legal system gets involved in a drug case, they are going to mandate some treatment.

    Your daughter is a lucky girl...there are so many who do die. One of the counselors I know always quips "How many addicts die each year?" Answer:"Noone knows because noone cares to count 'em!"

    Keep on praying, that she will be taken care of. It can be a hell of a road getting to the "end", but always remember that there can be an end.

    I know that we are all praying for you and for your family, Monday. I know very little about GHB, but actually had planned on doing some research on it today to see if I could get an "addicts grasp" on that particular drug.

    keep us posted.

     
    Old 09-07-2003, 04:08 PM   #10
    Monday1954
    Senior Veteran
     
    Join Date: Jul 2003
    Location: Huntsville
    Posts: 557
    Monday1954 HB User
    Post

    I don't know what the legal problems will be - they searched the house and confiscated anything they could find. She had perscriptions for Xanex, Kolonopin, Zolot and Effexor. They have sent the bottles they found to forensic to be tested. She must meet with them on Wed.

    The husband has problems of his own, he is not the cause of her problems as much as I would like to lay the blame on someone. He hates her taking it and has called us before to tell on her for relapsing. She still tries to lie about the issue. Remember the other day I posted that she never wanted to discuss it with me again? Well, it seems they had a long conversation that very day and she promised him that she also would not do anymore. The only thing that this says to me, is her addiction goes much deeper than she is willing to admit.

    Her reason this time - she was mad at him because he had gone to a football game and got drunk and she had to go pick him up.

     
    Old 09-07-2003, 05:04 PM   #11
    Hopefortoday
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jul 2003
    Posts: 707
    Hopefortoday HB User
    Post

    Monday . . . I'm really sorry about your daughter. Is the hospital/doctor recommending any kind of treatment for her addiction? God bless your entire family . . . take care of yourself!

     
    Closed Thread

    Related Topics
    Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
    Is there a limit to how much emptiness one person can withstand? VeryTired Depression 38 03-25-2005 02:06 PM




    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Search this Thread:

    Advanced Search

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are Off
    Pingbacks are Off
    Refbacks are Off




    Sign Up Today!

    Ask our community of thousands of members your health questions, and learn from others experiences. Join the conversation!

    I want my free account

    All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:31 AM.





    2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved.
    Do not copy or redistribute in any form!