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    Old 11-23-2005, 10:41 AM   #31
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    Re: Married to a BPD and needing help! Please...

    Hi Stephen,

    It's great to hear from you - I haven't seen any posts from you in awhile. I hope that all is going well for you. I've been working on the Stop Walking On Eggshells Workbook, and it has been really helpful. I Hate You, Don't Leave Me is another book that the psychologist recommended I read, which I did right away. When I saw him the next time, I told him I'd found myself highlighting the entire book. Both books are VERY helpful.

    How are things going with you and your wife? Frank continues to be pretty much on his best behavior, yet the laziness still persists with him. I've been to the trailer only to find dirty dishes that have piled up over 2-3 weeks, dried dog urine throughout the trailer that hasn't been mopped up, etc. Once in awhile, I will make a light comment about it but for the most part, I don't bother. I just don't stay long - because I cannot stand sitting in such a filthy environment, much less eating in one.

    I'm curious...does your wife tend to try to pass on to you little things that she can do for herself? For example, Frank kept asking ME to set up his trash service for him (I didn't do it, just simply kept tossing it back into his lap). Just the other day he'd left work early at 3:30pm and called me on his way home to ask me if I could schedule an eye exam for him because he's out of contact lenses. Keep in mind, I was still at work when he called and under some pretty heavy deadlines with plenty of fires needing put out - AND he knew this. I also knew he was going to go home and do nothing more than play computer games....so I delegated that back to him as well. I guess it just bewilders me how and why he would want me to do such simple things that most people do for themselves. It's not like he had other pressing things to attend to, you know? Does your wife do things like this?

    Well, again - it's really great to hear from you. I hope you have a wonderful, Happy Thanksgiving. I'm looking forward to that pumpkin pie!

    Lori

     
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    Old 11-24-2005, 12:08 AM   #32
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    Re: Married to a BPD and needing help! Please...

    Hey Lori,
    My wife and I are doing better at the moment. With the holidays coming up and her co-dependency on "family" and "home" are becoming the biggest issues right now, but it has been a much, MUCH smoother ride so far since she started therapy and I "played along"....so to speak. I like to think that she is doing her very best and that things are going to continue to move in a positive direction....but like I said before, I am a realist and my "thinking" is more optimistic than anything. She is doing much better already, though. The "little" things are becoming easier to handle and her dealing much better with work-related stress has been her greatest achievement so far. From what I understand about DBT is that they work from the little-small things towards the bigger-important things. That is, of course, once they settle the life-threatening behavior issues like cutting or suicidal tendencies. I still call her out on most of her B.S. and "show" her the way while explaining the rewards of dealing with things in a more effective and productive way....which she still finds a bit disheartening and gets dissapointed in herself for not being "better" than she is....all normal things for her. I tried not telling her what I thought or not commenting on how we can make things better, but then issues NEVER got dealt with and she wouldn't initiate conversation, so I will "take some hell with my heaven" so to speak, as long as we are moving in the right direction. The most important thing my wife responds to is the validating of emotion, her emotion, however irrational. I basically say it like this "I would feel the same way about things if I looked at it with same perspective as you, but I don't see it the same way and you don't have to either, if you don't CHOOSE to". But all in all we are making small steps forward and I am ever grateful for that, really and truly. Even if things ended right here and now, it would have been worth it, know what I mean?...

    As for your question, the answer is yes and no. My wife has tradionally been a very, very selfish and self-centered person. But her strives to be "perceived" as a good person has made her a habitually self-serving with the bigger issues. She always loved to have control with easy tasks like making phone calls, setting up appointments, and remembering what time and date things were supposed to happen. She appears to be a very organized and clean person, and she is, for the most part. However, she is also very lazy with physical tasks. She will ask for things before realizing it would have been much easier for her to get it or do it herself. She won't think twice about asking me to grab the pepper for her without looking to see it is sitting right in front of her, which is typical, from what I understand, in the BPD personality, which is the characteristic of "lack of mindfulness". She is very lazy in dealing with issues or problems as well, until it becomes an overbearing emotion that will, in the end, take control of her mind and actions to become the sole feeling she is capable of and eventually become unescapable. This is sort of the same as your husband. She is also very co-dependant at times, feeling that just because I won't do something for her that it signifies my lack of work in the relationship, which, of course, means that she should do the same and begin looking for others who will "fit the bill" that she is looking for.......but that is an old story. It does bother me but I have to remind her, and myself at times, that there is a difference between rebellion and independance, self-sufficiency and isolation, and that I want her to be the best person she can be. That means sometimes things are going to be uncomfortable, sometimes things are going to be difficult, and that the world does not turn around either one of us. We are in the world, not the other way around. And that the wise and happy people of this world are not the ones who remove unhappiness or difficulty from their lives, but learn to grow in any situation and can treat both triumph and tragedy just the same.

    The most amazing thing I have found so far is that most of the issues my wife is dealing with have nothing to do with BPD, but with learning to live life in general. Basic skills and practices that most people have failed to learn well is her root problem. The BPD can run wild and take over not because she is "predetermined" or "susceptible" to it, but because the skills she lacks to live life effectively and successfully would be the only tools she could use to fight against the influences of tramatic situations or the opinions of others. It is truly enlightening and a worthwhile learning situation to be where I am at in life. I love my wife and I will do what I can to help her, just like anyone else, so long as the desire to help themselves is what takes precedence. I have heard the wise say before "You must go through hell in order to reach heaven". I hope there is a heaven awaiting all of us.

    Thank you for your reply and I look forward to talking again soon. Have a wonderful day and remember that in your weaker moments, all you have to do is realize why your here and what you are doing, that it makes a difference, and that people like us here are always with you, our strength, our faith, and our hearts.

    Happy Thanksgiving!!

    Stephen

     
    Old 11-25-2005, 12:33 PM   #33
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    Re: Married to a BPD and needing help! Please...

    "The most important thing my wife responds to is the validating of emotion, her emotion, however irrational. I basically say it like this "I would feel the same way about things if I looked at it with same perspective as you, but I don't see it the same way and you don't have to either, if you don't CHOOSE to".

    That pretty well sums it up for me. Larry does that too, but in different words, and I've seen that he is right. I can CHOOSE to see situations in a different light if I WANT to.
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    Old 11-27-2005, 11:29 AM   #34
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    Re: Married to a BPD and needing help! Please...

    You are wise beyond your years and more fortunate than most. So what do you feel is your greatest challenge in choosing to see things one way as opposed to another.....?

    Stephen

     
    Old 11-27-2005, 02:59 PM   #35
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    Re: Married to a BPD and needing help! Please...

    You are wise beyond your years and more fortunate than most. So what do you feel is your greatest challenge in choosing to see things one way as opposed to another.....? LOL! I'm 42!!!

    I agree, I AM extremely fortunate than most people with BPD, because I have reached and maintained a plateau in my life. I have a wonderful understanding, intelligent, loving husband who understands me better than anyone has ever even tried to understand me. I have reached a point of understanding and knowledge and acceptance of borderline personality disorder in me. Believe me, it wasn't easy and it took a very very long time. I researched and studied, talked with therapists and other borderlines. I've read most everything there is to read about BPD. I've spent countless hours on the internet researching, chatting, posting, etc...to come to this period.

    Plateau is wonderful, believe me. While I enjoyed the highs of the roller coaster, the lows were too depressing and angry. Plateau is not a straight line, however, I did have a period of about 14 months when I could feel NOTHING, not good, nor bad. I hated that.

    I took meds to control the mood swings and the splitting for years. When my meds stopped working, I took more meds until I could feel nothing. I couldn't laugh at my children's jokes and antics, I couldn't cry at a cute puppy commerical. I felt nothing when my grandfather passed away. I was void, empty, and BORED. I had no passion, in my personal life or at work. I could have won the lottery and no felt a thing. I hated me, but I couldn't even feel hate.

    I went off my meds, slowly....I started researching......when I was totally med-free in about six months, I could feel again. But the highs were too high, and the lows were too low. I didn't make any sense to anyone, not even myself. I couldn't control my passions or my anger. I took time off work, 3 weeks, sent my kids to their father's in Texas, and spent time on ME.

    I actually like myself now. I am on a mild dosage of Topamax (100 mg a day). I am also on a small (10 mg) dosage of Lexapro. I can be sad or angry without blowing it out of proportion. I can be exceedingly happy, without doing anything off the wall. I can EXPLAIN my emotions to others without falling apart, AND have them understand what I am saying.

    I have learned to STEP BACK from problem areas, take several deep breaths, and look at the situation in another light. Of course, I have a built in sounding wall, Larry. I can wake him up in the middle of the night to talk. I can TALK to him about anything and everything, or nothing at all. I can go to him just for a long hug. No questions, no comments, just a hug. Whenever I need it, wherever we are at the time. That helps soooo much.

    I can be independent and involved in my marriage at the same time. I know I could survive on my own. I'm not clinging to my husband for my very survival, as I have done in the past. I CHOOSE to be with him, to SHARE my life with him, not MAKE him my life.

    Sure, I can still be slightly irrational at times, but so can everyone else. But the most amazing thing happened during my recovering process, I CAN FEEL! Without going overboard, without climbing the wall, without losing friends and family.

    The greatest challenge in choosing to see things in a different light....time and space....the ability to walk away, breathe deeply, and have another go at it...not always possible....but certainly worth it when it is possible.

    And of course, as always... knowledge and acknowledgment are the most important things in the borderline recovery process...One must first acknowledge that there IS a problem, then study and learn about the disorder, then make a conscience decision to do something about it. It's an everyday stuggle, but it's becoming so common and routine to me, like brushing my teeth....

    Thanks for the compliment....I'm here to help anyone who want it...

    lauralee
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    Old 11-28-2005, 08:45 PM   #36
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    Re: Married to a BPD and needing help! Please...

    Lauralee, all I can say is that is AWESOME!! I am so happy to hear that you have come to see things the way you have, and fought, and kept fighting, to get there and stay there. You are a definite asset to this site and all that know you, I am sure. And I like what you mentioned about the "everyday" issues that EVERYONE has, not just someone with BPD or someone with life-threatening problems, but each and every person that walks the Earth. Yours is a serious "coming of age" story with true determination and a great example of what people are capable of when they just try, and keep trying, keeping focused, and keeping faith. Thank you so much for sharing that part of yourself with me and everyone else here. Truly it is good to hear it. Maybe a good question to ask now is, what can we do for you?....lol.

    Stephen

     
    Old 11-28-2005, 09:17 PM   #37
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    Re: Married to a BPD and needing help! Please...

    Thanks for the praise! I can use all I can get.



    Maybe a good question to ask now is, what can we do for you?....lol.


    Just keep on keeping on....being here....it actually helps me to help you.


    I was raped when I was 15 years old, by my boyfriend of 14 months. I told no one. When I was 20, I joined a rape survivor's group and after 6 months I was leading another group. The best catharsis for me is to help others in similar situations. It has been an amazing journey and I am so happy that I can share my experiences and knowledge and thoughts with anyone who wishes to listen/read.
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    Old 12-09-2005, 08:41 PM   #38
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    Re: Married to a BPD and needing help! Please...

    STzenn - how are things in your world? Haven't seen you for a while and I'm hoping no news is good news. My situation is on the other thread, fresh new update....long story short, my relationship is over, but I'm ok with it. I have to start focusing on me for a while......
    hope things with you are going in the right direction, let us know......

     
    Old 12-10-2005, 02:17 AM   #39
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    Re: Married to a BPD and needing help! Please...

    Hey rose and all!! Thanks for the thought...lol, I do really appreciate it. I, meaning myself personally, have been doing pretty well. I, meaning my relationship, has kind of hit a sort of "lull" or "plateau" in recovery. It seems that my wife, when not confronted so literally with life-threatening issues, likes to become lazy and inactive in her day to day dealings with herself. Her recovery in the therapists office is still moving forward and she is making small gains all the time.....that is, of course, as long as it means dealing with someone else's drama or problems. I suppose that is just where the therapy is right now, at least that is what I'm content in believing right now. I keep telling her the time is coming where "we" are going to have to start really connecting and bonding in deeper ways (growing and learning as people and as a couple, in other words......aka, living life) if we are going to survive as a married couple. Mostly though, she is becoming very much self centered and self absorbed with her emotional attacks. What I am saying is that she constantly blames herself for not being better than she is when a new solution comes up to resolve something, then passes the new solution off as something to be "worked on" or "thought about". My response, of course, is "let's talk now" or "why not discuss this issue right now", which always turns into a discussion on "where she is at in therapy" and how it just isn't time or she isn't well enough equipped to confront these issues right now. So I'm bidding my time and biting my lip with alot of issues, sort of waiting for the right time to pounce and really dig deep with her on getting our "emotional baggage" and trash behind us, bonding us closer together and lightening our load to carry with us in the future, also making us both better people and better able to handle upcoming challenges with a new perspective and new strength. I understand that her therapy is very important to the both of us and it must follow a certain procedure, one step at a time. It just seems sometimes that she is unwilling to confront anything or try anything that the doctor hasn't said himself or prescribed as the "correct" way to deal with something. I'm still a bit unsure of how to view this situation. I'm not jealous of the doctor for her unrelenting trust in him and her very fragile trust in me, or of his "word is god" hold he has on her mental and emotional health (he is the doctor, not me), it seems that what really bothers me is her unwillingness to open up to all possibilities of recovery, inside and outside the therapists office. But so far her recovery has made steady moves forward and for that I am truly grateful, for the both of us. So to make a long story short (too late.....lol), we have the direction right, but we need to pick up some speed.

    It's good to hear that you are focused on you right now, I'm sure it's LONG overdue. The first breaths of real freedom are meant to be remembered, as a reminder, of what life truly feels like when you can, at least for a moment, see and embrace the truth.....that life is meant to be revered as a wonderful journey of experience, not an oasis to run to when problems are forgotten.

    Love and hope for you and for all of us,
    Stephen

     
    Old 12-10-2005, 10:47 AM   #40
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    Re: Married to a BPD and needing help! Please...

    Hey Stephen!
    Well I see what you mean about moving in the right direction, but at a slower speed than you would like. Are you attending all the counseling sessions with her? The reason I ask is because I want to know if you have the FULL perspective of it. I'm not so sure she thinks the "therapist is God", or that she trusts his opinions more than yours. I'm thinking (and I could be wrong), that she is using this approach, to stall, or procastinate on action or talking about things because it is CONVENIENT. It's very easy to say, I can't get into that, I'm not that far in my therapy yet. I hate to be skeptical, but I think that could be what she's doing. She's using therapy as a stalling technique to put off dealing with some issues......well I'm in therapy, isn't that good enough? She's busy working on the "her" part of her feelings, and putting the "us" part of her feelings on the side for now. I applaude your patience. You are a patient, caring man. What do you think of my situation on the other thread? Just wondering what your thoughts are.
    I don't really feel free yet, maybe because of all the other times that this relationship was suppossedly "over", but this time it's different. I know he had a wonderful side, it just didn't surface enough. It showed up just long enough to keep me hanging on, to give me hope of a better tomorrow, and then was pushed aside by anger, bitterness, and cruelty. Even knowing the reason for it (fear of abandonment, BPD, etc), doesn't make it an easier pill to swallow. I sure hope that your journey turns out better than mine, take one day at a time, that's all you can do. I'm a little sad right now, but I know this is the best thing for me, and hopefully I will feel better in time. Take care of yourself Stephen and keep posting.

     
    Old 12-10-2005, 12:47 PM   #41
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    Re: Married to a BPD and needing help! Please...

    Oh yes the unavoidable question of "convienience" is always a lingering in the back of my mind, and to tell you the truth, it is what I truly feel is the underlying issue here. But I still have to remain faithful in the doctor and her too if this process is going to work. I don't mean lying down and taking EVERYTHING "her way", I mean whenever I see a change or an attempt to handle the situation in a way I know the therapist suggested to her, then letting her do it that way and see her either fail or succeed. Then standby and wait for the question that comes much too rarely, "Can you help me?". I talk to her all the time about how nobody ever succeeds on their own and everyone needs help now and again, but NOBODY ever gets help if they don't pursue it. The only things she is going to learn or grow from are the things she truly puts time and effort into, in other words she must CARE and have INTEREST in order to learn something. Here lately, what she cares about is what others think and what others feel, giving her a false sense of what is important. To change for others benefit is a change that is doomed to fail from the very start. Eventually, when those things become less important for others, they become non-existent to the person who changed for that person's benefit, causing the "old habits" to become a much more enjoyable and practical to the person.....see where this is going...lol.

    I am attending her therapy when I can, but the doctor won't have me in the office with her when they are actually conducting the therapy. I go with her, then sit outside for the session, then ride with her back home....that is what "attendance" means for me. Apparently, DBT is a self-contained therapy....so be it. She also does a once a week session with a dozen or so other BPD's that are in therapy, and they "practice" their skills with each other as they learn them, before they go out into the world and practice their skills with other people. Again, I am not allowed to attend those sessions either. I offered to do whatever the doctor might think would help, and so far that means being understanding and validating, and not conducting any behaviors that would "inhibit" the therapy.....which is not very hard at all.

    What I mean by her trusting the doctor over me is exemplified by the following: She does something hurtful or unthinking, something that will result negatively. I tell her about it and some things she could do to recify or resolve this situation. She tells me that she understands (she didn't...) and that she will think about it. She does nothing about the situation, but a few weeks she brings it up to the doctor with her own "spin" on it. The doctor tells her the same thing I did, and she immediately begins working on that goal. When enough time has passed and there is no sign of that "problem" occuring again in the near future, it becomes a faint and unimportant memory.
    .......sound strangely familiar?.....lol.

    She still loves to play the "woe is me" part anytime and everytime she gets the opportunity. "Isn't that good enough?" is absolutely right. If she isn't totally and 100% right and justified, then she is a totall and complete failure....in her mind. There is a staggering amount of self hatred that is at play here, and the doctor is aware of it. But she is not to that stage of "post tramatic stress" issues yet or dealing with them in her DBT, so that is supposed to mean that the "big" issues are not yet ready to come to the surface and be confronted. We haven't even been able to deal with her cheating yet, on the account that it hasn't been confronted in herself or in therapy yet.

    I know what must happen between the both of us, and as long as I believe that we are going to reach that place, then I can be patient in this process and struggle with her as long as it takes. But when I come to a place where I do not believe that she is willing anymore or doesn't want the same resolution that I know is required for us, then it will be time to go....better for the both of us that way, I think. But we aren't there yet and we still want to make it work, so the problems we have today are still manageable. I can't even say what I think would be best, staying or leaving. I just take it as it comes and see what directions we are moving. When that direction is not something I see beneficial to either of us or just one of us, then I let her know....painful as it is to her to hear it sometimes. Oh well, it is what it is and we have to keep working, or else it just isn't going to work and she will fail herself totally....that would be a shame. I let her make her own decisions, that way I can see for sure where it is that she WANTS to go by letting her dictate her own path. I help when she asks and many times when she doesn't, and when she comes at me with "I'm trying, can't you see that. I care so much, so why don't you just leave me alone about it?"....I just remind her that I do for her what I can because I care, and that I am only trying to help, and if I didn't say anything at all, then I doom the both of us to fail the way we have in the past.

    I will read more about your situation in the other post and reply there.

    Take care of yourself,
    Stephen

     
    Old 12-11-2005, 07:16 PM   #42
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    Re: Married to a BPD and needing help! Please...

    Hi Stephen,

    You obviously love your wife very very much. You are a very patient and understanding man and she is very fortunate to have you. I'm sure that she doesn't realize the treasure she has in you. I sincerely hope that her therapy moves along more quickly and she stops using easy simple answers (excuses) to get her way.

    What about couples therapy? or marriage counseling with this therapist? Is this doctor not concerned about your relationship? Larry has talked with my doctor on several occasions to see if there was anything else that he could do to help me. My doctor welcomed him into therapy sessions and group sessions. Of course, there is no DBT in WV, but there is couples/marriage group sessions for Bi-polars, and we attended that a few times together.

    I hope your situation gets better for you.
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    Old 12-11-2005, 10:57 PM   #43
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    Re: Married to a BPD and needing help! Please...

    Thank you Nakita for your much too kind words. Couples therapy is a definite answer, but only when we get past the trauma of the current situation. According to the doctors who offer DBT, it is a "members only" therapy, so to speak. They talk with each other throughout their own therapy and then do a one-on-one with the doctor later on and discuss more "in depth" situations. It is not a couples thing and so far, there is very little the doctor has given me to "do" to help. Validating and patience seem to be only requirements when dealing with the DBT therapy. Besides, the things I wish to discuss mostly revolve around situations which she is "incapable" of dealing with right now, as the therapy has not confronted those situations yet. We are working our best today, and that is the most any of us can hope for. Books and friends are the only other outlets for me right now, and for now, it works. Thank you and the rest of the supportive friends here for being there to listen and help me. I do truly appreciate it.

    Best wishes,
    Stephen

     
    Old 12-14-2005, 11:32 AM   #44
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    Re: Married to a BPD and needing help! Please...

    Hi Stephen,

    I'm sorry I haven't written for awhile. My workload has been overwhelming over the past few weeks with international customers visiting for all of last week. We had some folks in from the Navy and shipyards - all very friendly. I particularly enjoyed spending time with two women from Kuwait, who were absolutely wonderful! They were so intrigued with our snow here! They even wanted to give skiing a try - and they did!

    Anyhow, I do admire you with your patience and loving attitude. I am trying to be the same with Frank...yet I am always fearful of what will come next. He is IDENTICAL to Tim, Rose's boyfriend (or ex-boyfriend). The dialogue she's relayed is precisely the same and so is the attitude. I'm sure you'll eventually mosey over to our other thread and will get a better idea of what I'm talking about. Probably not very unlike your situation.

    I'm glad that your wife is sticking to the counseling. That in itself is admirable because so many stay in denial. She is extremely lucky to have you as her husband. I can pretty well imagine some of the situations you have found yourself in with your relationship. Not many people are willing to educate themselves and you, Rose, Nakita and I have been striving to do. I hope Frank will realize this one day. Instead, he will demean things that are important to me and will downplay any problems that I may be experiencing (for example, at work) and will 'compete' with one of his own work related issues - claiming it is 'much more serious and important' than anything I may be going through. A perfect example was when I was planning meals for last week's training. We had customers from Kuwait, Spain, Austria...and I work hard to ensure that there is something for lunch that all can enjoy...not an easy task if you've never been to, say, Kuwait. Anyhow, when I expressed concern that they didn't seem to be eating all that much, he told me I was being 'obsessive' and making it into a 'big ordeal'. I informed him that this IS important...it is part of my job to ensure customer satisfaction, especially since they are paying $2,000 to attend this course. Of course, his situation with a broken water pump on an excavator was of a more serious nature than my stress over meals. Stupid, isn't it? Both are important to each of us in their own way. Yet he has to 'compete' and 'outdo' me - even with work related matters. Do you experience this at all?

    Anyhow, I'd better get back to work here. It's great to hear from you and I hope you had a terrific Thanksgiving.

    Lori

     
    Old 12-14-2005, 10:32 PM   #45
    STzenn
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    Re: Married to a BPD and needing help! Please...

    As a matter of fact I did read the thread of the ongoing series of challenges involving yourself, Nakita, and Rose. I can see how a male suffering from BPD differs from a female suffering from BPD. The men described were much more involved with the so-called "practical" and "logical" side of things, ill minded as they were (are!). As another man I would find that to be significantly more challenging than my own situation (with a female). We do share many, many similar day to day actions though......not falling into the "trap", so to speak, of THEIR dilusions and ill perceived beliefs. I feel for all of you and after reading that letter (or parts of it, I should say), I have to say that it takes a real piece of work and a long, long time of practicing to sharpen that kind of deception with oneself. I mean, that is what it truly is, in my own mind, is a person decieving themselves for so long that the lies they once created to protect themselves and help themselves deal with others become the deep seated truth and rock of faith holding them together today. That takes a very serious and sometimes (so I hear) rather violent or tragic experience and/or realization, causing them to see the real world, outside themselves, that hasn't been touched by the adult mind.......ever. That's a tall order, but I have no sympathy for those diagnosed with BPD, but a kind of desire to help, if requested and open to it, those who want to change themselves for the better......and for good. I know that those suffering souls discussed in the other threads will only see the truth if they are willing to accept it and open themselves up to the fact that they might be wrong about everything they have ever believed (not that they ARE wrong about everything, just willing to accept it), but people such as yourself and Nakita and Rose are following the path that leads back to freedom....learning, sharing, growing, teaching, helping, guiding, and doing whatever is necessary to find the light we all once lived in so freely, without worry or knowledge that situations like the ones we find ourselves in now even existed in this world. But knowledge is power, in my opinion, and can help us not only help ourselves, but each other and anyone else out there who wants to find the same thing we are trying to find.........the life we know that we can live, if we can just a way to start and keep moving forward again.

    I did have a wonderful Thanksgiving, thank you so much for asking! I have grown to sort of share a special love and caring for all of you here and I just wanted to say that I have a special place in my heart for you all, that I truly wish and hope that all of you find yourselves in a much better place one day past the problems of today, and any help I can give or recieve from each of you to get all of us there......

    Happy Holidays!!

    Compassion and Wisdom
    Stephen

     
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