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    Old 03-12-2006, 10:15 AM   #31
    goody2shuz
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    Re: Daughter May be Bipolar

    Hedge ~ thanks for taking the time to lend your support. I cannot tell you how much it means to me as short & sweet you are, you do make perfect sense.

    I guess as a mom when we give birth we see this image of perfection and as a mother wish only it to remain that way. I can't help but fear not doing the right thing for Erin. To treat her with meds for Bipolar and she is not Bipolar greatly disturbs me. Like you said, she IS a teenager but it is more extreme in Erin's case with the cutting and one suicidal attempt and admitted thoughts. My worry is that the times are so very different....the lyrics to the music that she listens to seems to portray self destruction and violence. Even songs I listened to like "The First Cut Is The Deepest" had a totally different meaning. It is a song that many cutters cut to today!!

    When Erin first cut and I asked her why she did so she said that alot of the girls at school were doing it when they upset with something. That still sticks with me. Just a few weeks ago I was a Music video she was watching where the artist clealy had scars all over her arms from cutting as if it's cool. So how much of this all is what she sees going on in society as a fad and truly Bipolar???? I know that time is going to tell and that what has gone on these past few years clearly indicates that I need to lean more towards caution and that is why I have no problems with the meds. I agree that in the next few months to a year we will see and get better signs as to where things will go with our daughter(s).

    While I normally do not compare my daughters.....it is apparent that most of what Erin is going through was demonstrated by my older daughter who continues to live impulsively and cause us worry. That is the only reason I brought that up....because if Erin IS Bipolar, there is a good chance that my older daughter is as well. Ruth knows what has occurred with my older daughter, Kait, and will probably know, as a few others who know me here, what my concerns are. The way I see things is either both of my daughters are rebellious teens and the younger requires some meds to assist her through harming herself during this period of time OR both my daughters are Bipolar. The similarities are soooo apparent. A part of me also thinks that the younger daughter learned the tools of maniputations from her older sister so I hope you understand where my concerns are all coming from.

    I realize as you have already said, that time will tell me what I need to know.....my concern for my older daughter is that she will be starting her first year of college this fall and will be away. And if she IS Bipolar and I do not have her properly treated/evaluated then I will be feeling as if I have failed her. And if I do have her evaluated and they decide to put her on meds I will have the constant worry of her partying and causing more harm to herself. What do I do about that??? My window of opportunity to have her evaluated is this summer after she graduates high school (she is residing in a different state with my brother to pursue the college that she wants to get into). As I already said, she continues to make poor decisions....impulsive ones which almost had my brother sending her back my way but we decided as a family that she needs to get over this last hurdle to graduate high school. She is almost there and when told that perhaps she should come home and not worry about graduating she grows upset and says that she has worked hard to get where she is and made sacrifices and although she has made her mistakes that everybody does.....it's senior year and this is what everybody does. I am inclined to agree to a point which leads me back to knowing that time will tell and somehow throughout that time I will know what to do.

    Thanks everyone for holding my hand along the way ~ Goody

    Last edited by goody2shuz; 03-12-2006 at 10:29 AM.

     
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    Old 03-12-2006, 10:31 AM   #32
    HoosierNJV
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    Re: Daughter May be Bipolar

    Dear Goody...just, hopefully, a short note before I get on with the day. You certainly can be thankful to have such good friends who will give of themselves as to advice and their experiences. Here, in rapid fashion, are my thoughts....I remain unsure as to a correct diagnosis of your daughter's problems. I see many behaviors that sound bi-polar to me, but certainly not all. She is of course a teenager and many of these behaviors I've seen in my own Grandchildren from time to time! BUT, Erin's probablems have resulted in a hospitalization and you might have months or years before things settle down. Ruth's bipolar disease ran quite a lengthy course until her correct diagnosis and the start of her lithium. The symptoms I saw in your discription of Erin that Ruth also exhibited were agitation when manic, depression when not manic, and acting out in dangerous ways (but remember that normal teenage behavior can include lots of acting out!) She did not cut. I have a 50 year old friend who's 15 year old daughter exhibited many of your daughter's symptoms recently. She was angry, totally against rules, wanted to leave home, wrote dreadfull things in her journal and left it open for her Mom to see, etc. etc. When she started the cutting it precipitated psychiatric intervention, a mild med of some sort and family counseling, which continues to this day with my friend and her daughter. For a time, early on, the daughter went to live with an aunt and her Mom stayed in close touch. Within a couple of weeks the daughter wanted to come home again. Things have gradually resolved, with the Mom and the daughter both learning to compromise. I guess every situation is different and outcomes are different but the good thing about the advice that is given to you Goody is that some of it may trigger a response in you that sounds helpful. When you mentioned in an earlier message that you were fighting the bipolar diagnosis, just stay informed of ALL posibilities so you have your eyes open and are not closed off from any possibility. I see your daughter exhibiting both strong needs for more independence (such as the new earring piercing episode!) while knowing that she has even greater dependence on you now because of her present illness! Very tough for both of you! Has it been suggested that you and she have some joint counseling? Might be helpful. About her boyfriend. I remember sometimes feeling that Ruth's involvement with boyfriends was just a roadblock when there so many other things to deal with, but truly this is a part of Erin's current emotional state and probably will continue to be. Just keep on dealing with it in as calm a fashion as you can manage. You asked about Ruth's self-esteem thru this. This is worth another whole message probably! I wish she'd come on here and address this. She was so sick during such a large part of her teen years that it took a long, long time for her to gain the strong sense of herself that she has today. I honestly can say that she has very strong integrity, has a strong sense of herself and is a warm, loving, caring person. I'm not sure how that all came about, because she had many lost years in her early life. For my part, thru it all her Dad and I tried our best to get the best possible care for her that we could, let her know we loved her and were always there for her. When she got into difficulties with her illness we were there to pick her up and help in any way she needed help. Our prayers were answered when she was correctly diagnosed and could finally make a good life for herself. Two additional questions before I leave what was to be a "short note" Ha!! Do you have bipolar disease, depression, or other mental disorder in your family histories? Also, how is your brother, who you said was ill? Hugs, Ruthie's Mom

     
    Old 03-12-2006, 10:45 AM   #33
    cmartin
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    Re: Daughter May be Bipolar

    The thing you said about her friends cutting so she did shows impulsive behavior, right? As a troubled teen if my friends were doing it I would have personally thought about it and quickly said, "I'm not doing that". Wouldn't you? My husband also seemed like a follower when he was not on medication. One day while we were married he went out with a couple of friends and came back the following afternoon. I felt sick, but he didn't seem to care how I felt. His thing when I was mad is to act mad at me so I start apoligizing to him...for nothing but when someone is mad I want them to feel better. People with bipolar disorder are also known to be very manipulative. Later as a wife trying to get a window into my ill husbands life I looked through his wallet and pockets (since he does not communicate without getting mad since he feels attacked). He had mexican money in his pocket and reciepts in spanish. He had went to mexico, with our only car at the time and left me at home with our daughters who were 4 and 1 year old at the time. I asked why he did that and he said because his friends wanted to go. I would have had the sense to either tell my friends I could not go or I would have at least called home and let my family know but he lives for now also not tomarrow or the future. That is why the family of the bipolar person usually needs counseling too. Before he was on his medication when we would argue he would drive off with the car almost sideways since he was driving so fast and out of control. That behavior made me scared to talk to him or disagree with anything he said. I felt like I was walking on broken glass or holding a time bomb. What you are looking at really does not seem like normal teenage rebellion since normal rebellion usually is not as dangerous. I am also not into medication I had 5 kids completley naturally...the last one 9 pounds! I also would not take anything for pain after and do not use tynenol or cold medicine at all. I would also be guarded about medicating my kids but bipolar people get a bad wrap because of things they can't control. It can be hereditary so it is possible that both your daughers can be bipolar. If it is left untreated it can progress to schizophrenia which is so much worse. My husband has a mild case and functions well with his jobs but when he gets off of his medication and things are going bad he wants to give up on everything. An example of that is when our house payment was going to be late because of bad choices he got on the phone to book a flight somewhere to leave his whole family when he had no money to pay for it. He also called the adoption agency to put our kids up for adoption. He blamed them...it is always someone elses fault, everything that goes wrong is someone elses fault not his. If the medication is stabilizing things at all there is a mental illness there or it would not help rebellion at all. Please make sure to get your older daughter evaluated and make sure they do not give them Zyprexa it does more harm than good. Good luck.

     
    Old 03-12-2006, 03:05 PM   #34
    goody2shuz
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    Re: Daughter May be Bipolar

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HoosierNJV
    You certainly can be thankful to have such good friends who will give of themselves as to advice and their experiences.
    You can say that again, Ruthie's mom, and also be counted among them!!!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HoosierNJV
    Here, in rapid fashion, are my thoughts....I remain unsure as to a correct diagnosis of your daughter's problems. I see many behaviors that sound bi-polar to me, but certainly not all. She is of course a teenager and many of these behaviors I've seen in my own Grandchildren from time to time! BUT, Erin's problems have resulted in a hospitalization and you might have months or years before things settle down.
    You couldn't be more correct...I am beginning to settle back into life realizing, as you and all the wonderful caring people here have suggested, to keep a watchful eye on things and eventually all this will be figured out. I know that I am not going to get all the answers in just one week....that time will tell in which direction this will go and either way, I will love Erin nonetheless. Isn't that a mother's way???

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HoosierNJV
    The symptoms I saw in your description of Erin that Ruth also exhibited were agitation when manic, depression when not manic, and acting out in dangerous ways (but remember that normal teenage behavior can include lots of acting out!) She did not cut.
    Erin does hold similarities to Ruth in many ways from what she has shared with me as well as what you describe. The impulsivity seems to be Erin's most dangerous behavior....whether it be in terms of cutting (which by the way took place 2 or three times in the past two years) and one incident of taking 15 advil pills. While hosptialized it was determined that ERin has had definite suicidal thoughts and that was when we knew that she needed meds to help her out with that.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HoosierNJV
    I have a 50 year old friend who's 15 year old daughter exhibited many of your daughter's symptoms recently. She was angry, totally against rules, wanted to leave home, wrote dreadfull things in her journal and left it open for her Mom to see, etc. etc. When she started the cutting it precipitated psychiatric intervention, a mild med of some sort and family counseling, which continues to this day with my friend and her daughter. For a time, early on, the daughter went to live with an aunt and her Mom stayed in close touch. Within a couple of weeks the daughter wanted to come home again. Things have gradually resolved, with the Mom and the daughter both learning to compromise.
    That seems to be where our situation with Erin had been heading. Seems that now that she is on the meds she is able to accept that things are not going to go her way all of the time. We have a family contract in force that was worked through with the social worker prior to her discharge home which seems to be working out quite well. I sure hope that your friend's situation works out too.....it certainly isn't easy to have such turbulence within a mother-daughter relationship. My girls are my heart & soul and I couldn't love them more. I, as most mom's do, only wish for them to be healthy and happy....and that is my utmost goal in their lives.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HoosierNJV
    I guess every situation is different and outcomes are different but the good thing about the advice that is given to you Goody is that some of it may trigger a response in you that sounds helpful. When you mentioned in an earlier message that you were fighting the bipolar diagnosis, just stay informed of ALL posibilities so you have your eyes open and are not closed off from any possibility.
    I intend to do just that....I know in the beginning I was fighting the Bipolar so badly....but as you so well pointed out, I must keep my eyes open to everything and with all the infinite wisdom here I am not going about this blindly. Seems that I have alot of eyes around here watching out for me & my daughters.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HoosierNJV
    I see your daughter exhibiting both strong needs for more independence (such as the new earring piercing episode!) while knowing that she has even greater dependence on you now because of her present illness! Very tough for both of you! Has it been suggested that you and she have some joint counseling? Might be helpful.
    We will be meeting with her new social worker this week and I will discuss that option to him. If not I may seek out my own counsellling to see how I might best work through this with Erin.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HoosierNJV
    About her boyfriend. I remember sometimes feeling that Ruth's involvement with boyfriends was just a roadblock when there so many other things to deal with, but truly this is a part of Erin's current emotional state and probably will continue to be. Just keep on dealing with it in as calm a fashion as you can manage.
    Yes....that is exactly what we are doing. Erin's mood has been down most of the time since she has been home and mostly has to do with the BF. He has yet to call or return her calls since her return home from the hospital. She called him today to break up with him but "chickened" out when they finally talked. Seems that he doesn't want to come see her here which was the agreement between his mom and himself & us once Erin returned home. He hasn't been going to school and so she is somewhat upset about the whole thing. I am talking to her when she wants to but for the most part she doesn't. So I understand that alot of her mood has to do with knowing that she has lost a BF.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HoosierNJV
    You asked about Ruth's self-esteem thru this. This is worth another whole message probably! I wish she'd come on here and address this.
    I am sure that Ruth will not disapoint two of her favorite people, so I know that she will address this when and if she feels the need to.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HoosierNJV
    She was so sick during such a large part of her teen years that it took a long, long time for her to gain the strong sense of herself that she has today. I honestly can say that she has very strong integrity, has a strong sense of herself and is a warm, loving, caring person.
    Believe me there isn't a soul here that would describe Ruth as anything less than you already have!! She is a wonderful person who I am proud to call my friend and we seem to share the same view of life....enough to have adopted one another as twins around here!! If she hadn't told me herself, I would never have known her to be Bipolar!! That is why I do not fear it as much because I have seen firsthand how wonderful a person one can be despite the disorder!! In fact, as I have already shared, there isn't a better qualified person to hold my hand through all of this than our dear Ruth, that is, with the exception of her wonderful mom!! And with the two of you and all the others around here I know that our family will be alright!!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HoosierNJV
    I'm not sure how that all came about, because she had many lost years in her early life. For my part, thru it all her Dad and I tried our best to get the best possible care for her that we could, let her know we loved her and were always there for her. When she got into difficulties with her illness we were there to pick her up and help in any way she needed help. Our prayers were answered when she was correctly diagnosed and could finally make a good life for herself.
    I am convinced that Ruth's success and strength comes from the wonderful mom & dad that she had. I know her dad lives strongly through Ruth in her determination to offer comfort to those who are going through Colon Cancer and I know that it has hit close to home once again and your family is constantly in my prayers. Ruth is a wonderful, sensitive, caring, strong and faithfilled soul that I have come to respect and love dearly. As her mom I thank you for bringing her into my life!!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HoosierNJV
    Two additional questions before I leave what was to be a "short note" Ha!! Do you have bipolar disease, depression, or other mental disorder in your family histories? Also, how is your brother, who you said was ill? Hugs, Ruthie's Mom
    There is no definite family history of Bipolar but my maternal grandmother was an alcoholic and had been in and out of psychiatric hospitals throughout her life. There was no definite diagnosis but since Erin's hospitalization my Aunt & Mom said that she had a from of parnoia schizophrenia behavior and possibly manic depressive behavior from what was described to them. And as we know...manic depression is also know to be referred to as Bipolar. So I do not dismiss the genetic factors playing a role in all of this.

    Bless you for inquiring about my brother....he was discharged yesterday and is home with his family. His condition is rare and we are worried about him since it is worstening...I thank you for inquiring but cannot go much more into it here. (Ruth will explain that all off to you )

    Thanks again for watching over me and for offering your gentle insight into what is going on with my Erin. I truly appreciate all the wonderful support.

    (((HUGS))) ~ Goody

     
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