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    Old 05-15-2005, 12:43 AM   #1
    Talonsmomma
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    cymalta(flexiril) and Ultram(Tramadol) Expericence so far

    I have been taking both of these for about a week now...
    The first time I took the Ultram it didn't really make me stop hurting as much as it made me feel like I was high and just didnt care that it hurt. The giggling fit wore off about 35-40 mintues later and that was about the only side effect I had from it.
    Now I take it and it doesnt do anything, I mean ANYTHING at all. No laughing or feeling good or lessinging of pain.
    Did anyone else have this kind of reaction?
    Took the Cymbalta, the Dr. prescribed to sleep, but right now I am staring at my clock adn it is 3:30, because I still can't sleep. I have had no noticeable effects from this one, either good or bad.
    Could anyone give me an idea of why this might be? I have an appt. with the Rheumy, but its not until June 14th, so until then I was just hoping someone could tell me why niether of these seem to help me.
    I thought maybe it could be the dosage, but being as young as I am and seeing as many posts as I have about being labeled a drug-seeker, I am almost afraid to tell the rheum that I might need a higher dosage.
    Ugh, I am so inexperienced with all this.
    Also, does it take time to feel the good effects? Maybe thats why it isn't helping, maybe Im just not waiting long, enough.
    Sorry guys, I'm rambling, I am just so depressed and tired of being sore.
    Today my legs hurt so bad i thought they were going to shatter into a million pieces...
    Anyway....
    Thanks for listening....Any replies would be awesome!!!!!!!

     
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    Old 05-15-2005, 08:32 AM   #2
    MomwithMS
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    Re: cymalta(flexiril) and Ultram(Tramadol) Expericence so far

    Hi.
    The ultram doesn't make me feel high or giggly, but it does give me energy and relieves some of the heaviness in my arms and legs. I would say that it will take a week or so until your body gets used to the ultram. Hang in there!!

    I have never gotten any relief from flexeril. I have MS, though. . so I have horrendous muscle spasms. Sorry that I'm not much help there.

    Best wishes,
    Les

     
    Old 05-15-2005, 11:54 AM   #3
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    Re: cymalta(flexiril) and Ultram(Tramadol) Expericence so far

    Talonsmomma,

    Hi, my name is TK and I've had FM since March '02.

    First of all Cymbalta isn't usually prescribed for sleep. So I'm a bit confused when you say that your doctor perscribed it for sleep. This kind of medication is usually prescribed to decrease pain by the chemical agents it is made up from, which can lead to a regulated sleep pattern. But it isn't meant to be used as a "sleep aide", at least not that I've heard. But I'm not a doctor either. That's why I'm confused a bit. Cymbalta is not Flexeril. They are two separate medications. Cymbalta is an SSNRI. Selective Serotinon Reuptake Neoepenepherine Inhibtor. It was originally developed for patients with Depression who also suffer from pain. It was originally prescribed to patients with Diabetes, then it was discovered that it helps with depression and pain. It is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor which basically means it increases serotonin which is a chemical in our brain that releases endorphines and therefore increases enegry, which in turn will releive paiin. Fibro patients do not have a lot of seritonin (if any) in their brains, so we cannot produce any of the chemicals that help us sustain energy. That's why we feel tired and then we feel pain. Inhibitor means it "inhibits" the neurotransmitters that destroy our neurons so that we CAN produce serotonin. Cymbalta is meant to give you energy and releive your pain. Flexeril is a muscle relaxant, and it DOES relax you so that you can sleep at night. It doesn't work for me, but it works well for others when they take it before bed. Cymbalta is meant to be taken in the morning, once a day. 60mg of Cymbalta is usually the dose that works most effectively. So I'm not trying to insult your intelligence or anything, but I think you have the meds Cymbalta and Flexeril mixed up. There are no generic brands for Flexeril or Cymbalta. Now Ultram is the same as Tramadol. Tramadol is the generic brand of Ultram. Ultram works for a lot of people for mild to moderate pain. It does not work for moderate to severe pain. Ultram is very good if you are experiencing pain from one source. It usually doesn't help Fibro patients since our pain comes from many sources. It is normally given as your first pain med to see how it helps or doesn't help your pain. Ultram is non narcotic and that is why it is preferred by most GP's and Rheumies. Since GPs do not like to administer narcotics or opiates for pain, usually. Rheumies usually will refuse to give narcotics for FM pain. Some do, but most don't. Reason being they have been taught that exercise and these SSRI's are what FM patients need to fight off the pain. Exercise increase's serotonin, thereby increasing endorphines and relieving pain. There are many many posts here by other folks with FM who testify to the fact that a regular exercise routine has helped reduce or get rid of all toghether, their pain. The more active you can be, the better you will feel. Unfortunately most of us with FM have other conditions that prevent us from getting enough exercise.

    Oh I forgot to mention the other ingredient in Cymbalta, the neoepenepherine. This is also a pain blocking agent. There are other anti-depressants that are considered SSRI's, Effexor and Prozac are a couple. Wellbutrin XL works the same way only it has an agent in it that increases dopemine. Dopemine is a stimulantar. All of these anti-depressants, which is what Cymbalta is, are meant to stimulate you, and regulate your serotonin which in the long run will help you regulate a normal sleep pattern. They are not meant to PROMOTE sleep. They usually don't have sedative qualities, from what I hear or have researched. Your Rheumy should prescribe something like Flexeril to relax your muscles and help you sleep. Or other meds like Trazadone, Klonopin or any kind of muscle relaxant that is sedative in nature. You need to get enough restorative sleep at night, at least 4 hours, plus the non restorative sleep, 3-4 hours. Klonopin is commonly prescribed because it helps with Restless Leg Syndrome (common symptom of FM) and it's an antianxiety med, so it does help with sleep. I used it for 3 years until recently my Psychiatrist wants me to use Trazadone. Which isn't working as well as Klonopin, but Klonopin is very addictive so I imagine it's time for me to come off. It is a benzo type med made to treat anxiety, like Xanx.

    So I would tell your doctor that the Ultram isn't helping with your pain. Cymbalta is an anti-depressant and it should be helping you with your energy and your pain, and depression if you are feeling depressed. There are a lot of side effects that drive people away from Cymbalta. I quit using it cuz it made me sweat so terribly. I don't believe in using Antidepressants for FM, but I also suffer from major depression so..

    Ask your doctor about prescribing you something to help relax you and help you sleep, and if the Cymbalta isn't helping you, talk to your doctor about that also.

    I hope I cleared some things up for you and helped you some. There are a lot of folks here on the FM who have been through the "medication trials and error", believe me! A lot of us here have practically used them all, so you can get much info and help from the members of the FM board. Ask any time you have a question about ANYTHING!

    Nice to meet you.
    Here's wishing you a good spirit,
    tk

    Last edited by tkgoodspirit; 05-15-2005 at 12:04 PM.

     
    Old 05-15-2005, 11:58 AM   #4
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    Re: cymalta(flexiril) and Ultram(Tramadol) Expericence so far

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MomwithMS
    Hi.
    The ultram doesn't make me feel high or giggly, but it does give me energy and relieves some of the heaviness in my arms and legs. I would say that it will take a week or so until your body gets used to the ultram. Hang in there!!

    I have never gotten any relief from flexeril. I have MS, though. . so I have horrendous muscle spasms. Sorry that I'm not much help there.

    Best wishes,
    Les

    Hey Leslie!

    Just wanted to post here and say that I have been thinking of you and that I have replied to a few posts asking about MS and FM and I told them to read your threads. A lot of posts about FM and MS seem to be popping up here lately! Hmmm.....makes me wonder if this is not some "sign" to me as I will be tested for MS very soon.

    Anyway, I refered the questions to your threads so they can read your story.

    I was just wondering how you were doing. I don't want to get off topic here too much, I saw your reply and wanted to pop in and say "hi" in the chance you see it.

    Hugs,
    tk

     
    Old 05-16-2005, 06:51 AM   #5
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    Re: cymalta(flexiril) and Ultram(Tramadol) Expericence so far

    TK,

    I noticed in your response that you said that the recommended doseage for Cymbalta is 60 mg in the morning. I wonder if that's why the 60 mg daily that I'm taking isn't working as well as I'd hoped. My dr had said to take 30 mg twice daily, so I've been splitting it up.....one in the am and one in the pm.

    I'm so glad you posted that, because I think that would be a huge help. Originally, I thought Cymbalta was doing a world of good and I would be able to go off of the Tramadol.....not so. In fact, I'm taking more Tramadol lately than I'd like to. Anyhoo, your post got me to thinking.....two 30 mg in the am is the same as twice daily....duh!!!

    Thanks a bunch,
    Monkeychow

     
    Old 05-16-2005, 07:31 AM   #6
    MomwithMS
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    Re: cymalta(flexiril) and Ultram(Tramadol) Expericence so far

    Hi TK,
    I'm hanging in there. Yes, I am now a firm believer that MS and fibro overlap.

    I have a question about this cymbalta. I've never heard of it. Is it just flexeril? Or a combination of that and something else?
    __________________
    ~*~ Life is a journey, and you are the only compass. ~*~

    ((( Les )))

     
    Old 05-16-2005, 08:18 AM   #7
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    Re: cymalta(flexiril) and Ultram(Tramadol) Expericence so far

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MomwithMS
    Hi TK,
    I'm hanging in there. Yes, I am now a firm believer that MS and fibro overlap.

    I have a question about this cymbalta. I've never heard of it. Is it just flexeril? Or a combination of that and something else?


    Hey Les,

    Noooooooooooooo....Cymbalta and Flexeril are two completely different medications with two entirely different chemical components. Look for info on both these meds. You can ask your pharmacist or your doctor for more "official" information. Or use the research "tool" you have handy.

    Cymbalta is an SSRNI. I had a post on this med waaay back when I was first offered it by my doc. Let me see if I can get it and post the info here:

    From thread started 09-09-2004

    I just saw a report about this medication on my local news. It said that doctors who treat patients for depression also noted that those patients experienced pain as well, that is what Cymbalta was created for. It treats both depression and pain by stimulating the receptors in our brains that react to pain and cause depression. Although this may fuel some doctor's insistance that Fibromyalgia is caused by depression


    From thread started 10-08-2004

    New research on depression indicates that most people diagnosed with clinical depression also experience some kind of pain. That is what Cymbalta was designed for. My doc said they also use this med to treat narcolepsy (sp?) in diabetics. I personally, have no idea what that even is, but I know that it is working wonders for people who, in the past, have had trouble with the anti-depressants they were taking.Cymbalta, works differently. It's an SS"N"I. Using that "n" word that I can spell, but will attempt to, neoepinephrine? in our brains to help block the pain.

    Okay, Les, those are parts of the original threads I started to let people know about Cmybalta when I first started using it, as it was, then, a new medication for us. It was not developed specifically FOR us, but it was found in testing that it help people with FM.

    Cymbalta is a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor with neoepenephrine so it works a little differently than other SSRI's. Now, some anti-D's do NOT fall into the SSRI catagory. These anti-D's are known as tryciclics and do not mix with the SSRI's. I think your brain would explode from all the alterations! LOL That is why Rheumy's often prescribe the SSRI's to us Fibromights while the Triycyclics are left to the Psyciatrists. SSRI's are meant to increase serotonin that is a chemical made in our brains that gives us energy and helps to increase endorphines so that our pain receptors work to fight pain. You've heard of the "runner's high"? It is when the runner has worked up so many endorphines from running (like in a marathon) and feels "no pain". Kinda "high". These meds don't make us "high", they don't have that capability, however they DO manipulate our emotions. That is why they are classified as Anti-Depressants, but the Serotonin reuptake quality in the meds helps with our pain. Some carry Dopemine and some carry Epenepherine. Making them a different class of SSRI. Wellbutrin XL has Dopemine, Cymbalta has Epenepherine, both are chemicals that work to help fight off pain, kind of an "endorphine" booster.

    Read my reply to the following thread:
    from Cymbalta to Lexapro... question about antidepressants
    NickName
    It tells a little bit about what a doctor who has authored books about treating FM has to say about these SSRI's. My post is #9.

    Okay, Flexeril. Flexeril has sedative qualities in it but usually people aren't bothered too much by them. I'm not sure of the dosage, but I was taking 5mg 3 times a day. It is a muscle relaxant and supposed to be pretty effective. A lot of people get good relief from it, and it is commonly used at bedtime to relax and help you sleep. It is not by any means an SSRI. Matter of fact, it is common for your Rheumy to prescribe both of these meds together. I was first perscribed Effexor and Flexeril and Klonopin. These were my very first FM meds. My babies! LOL Until I no longer got relief from Flexeril and I wanted a change from Effexor cuz it took away my emotions and my libido. That's when we tried Wellbutrin XL, that didn't work either, so next came Cymbalta. Well, now I'm on Lexapro! LOL Klonopin is good for sleep but pretty sedative and can be habit forming. Given at a low dose like .5 or 1mg can be very helpful for a FM getting their restorative sleep patterns back.

    Okay, I probably confused you completely! But that is only MY info. It isn't proffessional and I am by no means a doctor. So get some research done on these two meds and talk to your doctor. See what the research says and what your doc says.

    I hope this helps you. Definately read my reply to the thread I mentioned. There is some good info about SSRI's in it.

    Here's wishing you a good spirit my dear friend,
    tk

     
    Old 05-16-2005, 12:36 PM   #8
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    Re: cymalta(flexiril) and Ultram(Tramadol) Expericence so far

    The Rheumy presscribed me Cymbalta and Ultram....
    He said that my insurance should have no problem covering them, because there are generics for them both.....

    The packets that came attached to the bag at the pharmacies with all the info about side uses, side effects adn so-forth also say the generic names for them...

    I got the generic of Ultram, which is Tramadol....

    The scrip for Cymbalta was given to me and it was called Cyclobenzaprine, but the listing for "Common brand names" says Flexiril...

    So, now I just a bit confused as to how cymblata and flexiril are not the same thing since that is what the Pharmacy packet says....

    Maybe I am just confused because I live in a fog...
    lol

     
    Old 05-16-2005, 12:41 PM   #9
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    Re: cymalta(flexiril) and Ultram(Tramadol) Expericence so far

    Oh my gosh....I just searched to find other names for cymbalta...n found a different name, but its not flexiril or cyclobenzaprine........

    So that made me think of something else....Could the pharmacy have screwed up the scrip?

    This is really bothering me now....

     
    Old 05-16-2005, 01:03 PM   #10
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    Re: cymalta(flexiril) and Ultram(Tramadol) Expericence so far

    Talonsmomma,

    Here is the information regarding the two meds. Their generic names and what they are used to treat. The generic Flexeril must be fairly new. When I used Flexeril, there was no generic. Same with Cymbalta.

    I would definatley check with either your doc or your pharmacists. Ask your doc what they prescribed for you, Cymbalta or Flexeril. Maybe your doc mentioned the two meds, but prescribed you just one. Be sure you are taking the medication your doc wants you to be using. K?

    Cymbalta

    Cymbalta (Duloxetine) - SSNRI for Fibromyalgia Treatment - Information
    Information on the indications and side-effects of the dual reuptake inhibitor antidepressant medication Cymbalta. Cymbalta, generic drug name Duloxetine hydrochloride, is a selective serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor (SSNRI) that is showing promise and being used off-label for the treatment of fibromyalgia symptoms.


    Cyclobenzaprine

    Typical Brand Names: Flexeril

    Generic Name: Cyclobenzaprine

    The muscle relaxant Cyclobenzaprine is for the treatment of muscular spasms, which cause pain and tenderness as well as reduced range of motion
    .

    I hope this helps clarify things for you. Definately call your doc, and let us know what happens.

    Here's wishing you a good spirit,
    tk

     
    Old 05-16-2005, 01:28 PM   #11
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    Re: cymalta(flexiril) and Ultram(Tramadol) Expericence so far

    I was under the impression that there's no generic for Cymbalta as of yet. I believe that Lilly still has the patent on it.

    Monkeychow

     
    Old 05-16-2005, 01:44 PM   #12
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    Re: cymalta(flexiril) and Ultram(Tramadol) Expericence so far

    Hi,
    I have mixed connective tissue disease and fibromyalgia. I am on flexeril and tramadol, which now help me sleep so much better. This works for me, but not sure how it would be for others. These were prescribed by my rheumotologist

     
    Old 05-16-2005, 02:27 PM   #13
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    Re: cymalta(flexiril) and Ultram(Tramadol) Expericence so far

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by monkeychow59
    I was under the impression that there's no generic for Cymbalta as of yet. I believe that Lilly still has the patent on it.

    Monkeychow
    I think you are right, Monkeychow. (LOVE that username!)

    I think that it is still too new on the market yet that the patent hasn't expired. Which is what needs to happen before other companies can grab it and make their own version. Duloxetine is the chemical ingredient that is what make Cymbalta "do it's stuff". I did see a chemical composite of Cymbalta, you know, the drawings of all the hexagons and octigons? With all the chemical agent's "numbers", but couldn't make hyde nor hair out of it. I did not take chemistry in school! I just know that Duloxetine is the "Chemical Agent" name for the medication. You know, they all have their brand name, like Prozac or Percocet, but no one on earth could remember the "chemcial agent" name of these meds! That's why we have Pharmacists and M.D.'s! My PM doc asked me once if I had tried Sumatriptan(sp?) meds for my headaches before. I was like, "do what?" Well, Sumablahblahblah is IMITREX!
    (you've seen the TV commercials with the little "monster" banging on the woman's head) Okay, I can say Imitrex easier than Sumablahblahblah!

    Thanks for pointing that out Monkeychow! ***ROTFL*** LOVE that username!

    Here's wishing you a good spirit,
    tk

    Last edited by tkgoodspirit; 05-16-2005 at 03:13 PM.

     
    Old 07-05-2005, 07:58 AM   #14
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    Re: cymalta(flexiril) and Ultram(Tramadol) Expericence so far

    I am new here. This would be my first post. I have fibromyalgia and tramadol never did a thig for me. The only med I have ever gotten relief from was hydrocodone. I have been on it for over a year now and while I still have more pain than I would like to, if I had a doc who refused to give it to me I probably would have killed myself due to the severe pain. Don't be afraid to verbalize your feelings to your doc. I know how terrible it is to fear being labeled an addict. I hope you find the relief you deserve.

     
    Old 07-05-2005, 08:47 PM   #15
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    Re: cymalta(flexiril) and Ultram(Tramadol) Expericence so far

    i know that the nurse prac. that i see has to write my script for cymbalta kind of different so that medicaid will pay for it, since there is no generic for it.
    goodluck with all the mix up.
    thank goodness for you TK!!!!!!!
    love,
    robin

     
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