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    Old 07-14-2007, 05:10 PM   #1
    accessn12
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    renin-aldosterone-potassium???

    I've got a question. In a condition where you would expect to see increased renin and aldosterone with a normal to low level of potassium, what affect would a beta blocker have on these particular test results if it was not discontinued prior to testing?

    I know there are some of you around here that really understand this stuff and all these interactions. Any help would be appreciated.

     
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    Old 07-14-2007, 06:52 PM   #2
    sam78
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    Re: renin-aldosterone-potassium???

    if you are measuring the levels of aldosterone and renin then it would not affect them. What specifically are they looking for?? Reason for high blood pressure??

     
    Old 07-15-2007, 03:14 AM   #3
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    Re: renin-aldosterone-potassium???

    Hi sam,

    Trying to narrow down the type of renal tubular acidosis and come up with proper treatment. Due to some bumbling docs who ignored the high acid content in the blood that has been showing in the labs for the last 14 years, there is now kidney damage involved as well as a host of other problems. Hypertension is now an issue but it bounces a lot from high to low. Currently taking 100mg atenolol for hyperthyroidism and 10mg lasix to try to keep the edema down. Successfully treated the hyperthyroidism for 12 years with 160mg inderal. Never had bp issues before the beginning of this year.

    Normal findings in RTA are usually elevated renin and aldosterone and depending on type, high, normal or low potassium.

    Lab results show renin level at 0.37 (upright 1.31-3.95) and aldosterone at 13.8 (1.0-16.0) and normal potassium 4.0 (3.5-5.3).

    I read that beta blockers lower renin but couldn't find a connection with aldosterone other than it being included in the chain of command and indirectly being affected by the renin levels. Then I got to wondering if because aldosterone causes the kidneys to retain sodium and excrete potassium, whether beta blockers could possibily affect the level of potassium. The potassium level helps pinpoint the type and helps guide treatment decisions.

    I've lost a little bit of faith in doctors and have no intention of blindly following their lead again unless I understand exactly what they are doing and why. They don't have to try to live with the consequences. I do.

    Thanks,
    Helen

     
    Old 07-15-2007, 12:27 PM   #4
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    Re: renin-aldosterone-potassium???

    Hi Helen,

    Quote:
    taking 100mg atenolol for hyperthyroidism and 10mg lasix to try to keep the edema down.
    Can you please describe your edema in some detail? Just wondering which parts of your body are affected and how. Is there a tendency for one side to be more affected than other(right or left)? Have the loop diuretics helped at all? I seem to be having the same problem for similar reasons. I saw a doctor for it yesterday and am going back today. The diuretics HCTZ+Spironolactone) don't seem to do much.

    Thank you,
    Flowergirl

     
    Old 07-15-2007, 01:17 PM   #5
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    Re: renin-aldosterone-potassium???

    Hi flowergirl,

    It's what's known as dependent pitting edema. It moves and you can make all kinds of neat designs in it. It wants to head for the center of the earth so whatever position I stay in for a while, it finds the lowest point. In the morning, it's more spread out and I can see it in my face and whatever side I slept on last and it makes me feel really lopsided. After I've been up a while, it pretty much settles from the rib cage down and it get's bigger and bigger down below throughout the day. My right side is always slightly larger but I'm right handed and even without the edema, the right side has always been a little larger.

    Just 10mg of lasix is almost a joke. I've been taking it since the end of march. It maintains status quo and keeps me from wheezing but doesn't push enough water to make the problem go away. The pcp wants me to stay on that dose until he figures out exactly what's going on. If I don't take it, I can go the entire day without peeing no matter how much fluid I put in. Nice thing is I haven't exploded yet.

    Similar reasons? You have rta or kidney problems too?

    Helen

     
    Old 07-15-2007, 05:30 PM   #6
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    Re: renin-aldosterone-potassium???

    Helen,

    thank you so much for your detailed reply. It has not been determined which kidney condition I have. Months ago they had two good possibilities, but the follow-up test results were inconsistent with either of those conditions. So, basically, I don't know what I have. They have a new theory about travelling blood clots causing the damage and were going to examine my cardio tests, looking for those. Sounds a little farfetched if you ask me. My edema is different from yours. The swelling is from the waist down with the left side being more affected than the right. The doc today did not have many ideas. The only thing he came up with was to get off the CCB and see if that makes a difference. There is a good reason for not doing that, but I am very tempted. I am still thinking it over because I''d like to know if my rx drugs are responsible.

    They gave you a small dose of a diuretic because of your kidneys. I was on a ridiculously small dose of diuretics right up untill now, too. The 50mg of HCTZ was added to help me with the edema.
    I hope you'll find answers to your questions and if you do, please share. Just curious, how can Lasix stop you from wheezing? Do you have asthma? When it rains, it pours!

    Flowergirl

    Last edited by flowergirl2day; 07-15-2007 at 08:52 PM.

     
    Old 07-16-2007, 04:53 AM   #7
    accessn12
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    Re: renin-aldosterone-potassium???

    I don't think it's so farfetched. Done a lot of reading lately and could swear I ran across something like that. Just didn't pay it much never mind cause I knew it didn't apply to me. You may wanna search out some info on it. It's out there.

    Both my mom and big sis had a terrible time with ccb's. What you describe on the edema sounds very similar to theirs. It went away when they were stopped. They both have very difficult to control hypertension. My sister's resulted in a couple stays in icu and a minor heart attack in her 30's. She's 50 now, takes a combination of meds and ran a marathon last year.

    Got a few medical issues but asthma isn't one of them. It was a touch of water causing the wheezing. Not much. Just enough to notice and to hear.

    I see the pcp wednesday when he returns from vacation. I'll be updating my thread on the kidney board if you're interested.

    Now, where are all those brilliant minds out there who know and understand this renin stuff? Come on guys. Cough up. Please!!!!!!!!!! I would be forever grateful.

     
    Old 07-16-2007, 05:47 AM   #8
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    Re: renin-aldosterone-potassium???

    My "guess":
    Most beta-blockers will decrease the amounts of Renin and Aldosterone and thus raise the serum potassium a small bit.


    Refresh my memory, access. Do you have CONN'S Syndrome? If you do, it can't be too severe becasue your potassium is holding nice and high.

    (This is complicated stuff! )


    Lasix: 10 mg. wouldn't do for me either. I started with 40 mg. twice a day and found that only the morning dose provided diuresis, so now I stick with 40 mg. in the morning...that quickly drops me a couple quarts.

     
    Old 07-16-2007, 05:48 AM   #9
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    Re: renin-aldosterone-potassium???

    My "guess":
    Most beta-blockers will decrease the amounts of Renin and Aldosterone and thus raise the serum potassium a small bit. I don't think the effect is huge though. Probably testing WITHOUT the beta-blocker would give you more diagnosable numbers.


    Refresh my memory, access. Do you have CONN'S Syndrome? If you do, it can't be too severe becasue your potassium is holding nice and high.

    (This is complicated stuff! )


    Lasix: 10 mg. wouldn't do for me either. I started with 40 mg. twice a day and found that only the morning dose provided diuresis, so now I stick with 40 mg. in the morning...that quickly drops me a couple quarts.

     
    Old 07-16-2007, 06:22 AM   #10
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    Re: renin-aldosterone-potassium???

    Thanks lenin.

    That was my guess too.

    I also eat a very good diet in quite large quantities that includes a lot of potassium rich foods.

    Testing without the beta blockers is not an option. I'm the one with the mutant thyroid hormone receptors that posted a while back regarding betas and edema. After a couple days without betas, I end up in the er.

    I wanna be able to explain to the pcp why those test results came back off track of what would have been expected. They are the only ones that aren't tracking.

    I don't have conn's. I have secondary hyperthyroidism, chronic renal tubular acidosis (15yrs.), kidney disease, osteomalacia, IgG deficiency and am PPD+ (latent tb).

    The edema is due to the failing kidneys. The failing kidneys and osteolmalacia are due to the RTA. The RTA is due to the hyperthyroidism, combined with the IgG defiency and the treatment I received years ago for the latent tb. I wouldn't be in the pickle I'm in now if it wasn't for idiot doctors who don't know how to interpret lab results.

    You're right. It is complicated stuff. But if I can learn it, why the he** couldn't they?

     
    Old 07-16-2007, 11:20 AM   #11
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    Re: renin-aldosterone-potassium???

    Helen,

    Thank you for your response. I followed your recommendation & read your thread on the kidney board. I posted in your thread.

    Quote:
    Both my mom and big sis had a terrible time with ccb's. What you describe on the edema sounds very similar to theirs. It went away when they were stopped. They both have very difficult to control hypertension.
    I am the same age as you and unfortunate enough to have the condition you described above. This has led to many doctor's visits and a lot of frustration. I deal with it the best way I can and try to remain optimistic. It's funny how a single event can change our lives forever by setting off a chain reaction. Sort of like a house of cards coming down.
    I did not take the CCBs today as I would rather have a high blood pressure than edema. (Nice to have choices!)
    I am two BP meds short already, (a long story), and my doctor is away so there's no one to ask. I hope there aren't any bad consequences. I do hope the edema stays away today. I have these raised pouches of stuff on my lower legs, and am assuming it's water. The doc I saw yesterday at the walk-in-clinic examined them and concluded they must be swollen veins. No veins, however faint, can be seen through the skin and they feel soft when poked.
    I know what a varicose vein looks like, and they certainly don't form perfect round knobs. Fun never ends!

    Flowergirl

    Last edited by flowergirl2day; 07-16-2007 at 11:23 AM.

     
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