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  • Athletes, DMG, High Triglycerides and low O2

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    Old 03-15-2004, 02:22 PM   #1
    MariaS.
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    Athletes, DMG, High Triglycerides and low O2

    We are trying to control my husband's high triglycerides with diet and weight reduction. However, as he is an athlete in training for national competition in judo this year, the high triglycerides have had a significant impact on his stamina.

    I think I have it figured out: Since high triglycerides interfere with oxygen transport, then when my husband is working out - his muscles are oxygen deprived (like being at high altitude) and they have to go into the anaerobic cycle much sooner than is normal, creating lactic acid in the muscles and causing exhaustion much sooner.

    What he is doing to combat this is to take a supplement called dimethyl glycine (DMG) in the form of a small, under the tongue tablet a short while before exercising or doing physical work of any sort. The DMG increases the oxygen carrying capability of his blood and he is able to function normally until it wears off. This allows him to get a full length workout without getting abnormally tired.

    Has anyone else tried this? Olympic swimmers have been using DMG for 20 years, I'm told, to increase their oxygen carrying capacity of their blood. It's legal for them and quite safe, I'm told. We got the DMG at a local health food store. You need the sublingual kind, though, because DMG doesn't pass through the bowel wall easily, I'm told.

     
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    Old 03-19-2004, 08:21 AM   #2
    MariaS.
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    Re: Athletes, DMG, High Triglycerides and low O2

    Does this make sense to anyone else? I mean about the low oxygen causing the muscles to use the anaerobic cycle to get their energy?

    Does anyone have an opinion on our fix?

     
    Old 03-19-2004, 01:17 PM   #3
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    Re: Athletes, DMG, High Triglycerides and low O2

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MariaS.
    Does this make sense to anyone else? I mean about the low oxygen causing the muscles to use the anaerobic cycle to get their energy?

    Does anyone have an opinion on our fix?
    Well, on the magic school bus this is explained : When you use your muscles you build up lactic acid ( which causes muscle fatigue) but when you breathe in oxygen goes to the lungs and transported through the blood stream to feed the body oxygen and all the waste is transported through sweat glands and exhaling. I hear drinking plenty of water and eating a banana/pottasium will reduce the effect of lactic acid build up.

    I thought high triglycerides meant your liver pancreas is producing to much glycogen from all the startches/sugar --so much it does not know what to do with it-- causing one to gain fat weight fast prone to Diab2.

    Has anyone tried fruit pectin?
    Glucophage?
    Chromium Piccolante? Sp
    __________________
    Peace

    Last edited by HeyThere; 03-19-2004 at 01:18 PM.

     
    Old 03-20-2004, 05:40 AM   #4
    MariaS.
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    Re: Athletes, DMG, High Triglycerides and low O2

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HeyThere
    I thought high triglycerides meant your liver pancreas is producing to much glycogen from all the startches/sugar --so much it does not know what to do with it-- causing one to gain fat weight fast prone to Diab2.

    Has anyone tried fruit pectin?
    Glucophage?
    Chromium Piccolante? Sp
    I didn't know that..... but the effect I mentioned, the lower ability to carry oxygen, is a side effect of the presence of high triglycerides in the blood. At least, that's what a retired medical technologist told me.

    My husband's symptoms when doing physical stuff certainly point to oxygen deprivation. He starts gasping much too soon, and gets exhausted quickly......... despite having more than his share of muscles on his body.

    If he does a significant amount of work while this way, the next day he is VERY sore-- a direct effect of lactic acid build up, I think. If he takes a couple of DMG before working, then he lasts a LOT longer and is NOT sore the next day.

    It seems pretty straight forward to me.

    Since we've been using the DMG, he's been able to work out (or do heavy physical work) for much longer stretches at a time. This extra calorie consumption is helping him lose weight, and I hope that when he gets down to where he ought to be, then his triglycerides might go back to near normal. A test 1.5 months ago put him in the 900 range for triglycerides!

    If this diet and exercise doesn't drop them, we'll have to try the drug thing too.

    He's at 229 lbs now. If he gets below 205 lbs, he'll be in the next lower weight division in the Judo competition. (They are sorted by weight, like wrestling). So he has LOTS of incentive to lose weight. He doesn't want to be in the heavyweight division with the 300+ pound guys!

     
    Old 03-20-2004, 05:55 AM   #5
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    Re: Athletes, DMG, High Triglycerides and low O2

    MariaS,

    That 900mg./dl. range for triglycerides is EXTREMELY dangerous. He should be taking something to lower it immediately and work out the long term strategy at his leisure. This is a safer approach.
    Has he considered a low carb diet? (I really hate recommending this but it usually DOES lower triglycerides a lot almost overnight!)
    What does the rest of his blood lipid picture look like!
    (Gasping is NEVER to be taken lightly.)

     
    Old 03-22-2004, 06:35 AM   #6
    MariaS.
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    Re: Athletes, DMG, High Triglycerides and low O2

    Hmmmmm....... the doctor didn't seem concerned at the numbers. Just sent a note with the lab results to eat less fat and see her in 3 months for another blood test.

    She is a new doctor for us. Our trusted, family doctor quit his practice recently in favor of a teaching position. I don't know about this new one yet.

    His other numbers were not alarming. I can't find the lab results right now, but if I remember right, his HDL was only a couple of points below normal and his blood glucose was fine. They couldn't calculate his LDL fraction because the Triglycerides were so high.

    We are monitoring his (and my) diet right now with a good software program. We are trying to keep his carbs below 50%. How low is a low carb diet? He's a big guy and needs a lot of calories. Right now, he's eating between 2500 and 3000 calories per day (depending on exercise) and still losing a pound a week. It would be hard to get that many calories just from meat.

    The DMG seems to be counteracting the only troublesome symptom of the high triglycerides. Why should we panic and start additional drug therapy now? Are there other dangers that I am unaware of? I've read that pancreaitis is a possiblity, but only at about the 1500+ range, or so I read.

    Last edited by MariaS.; 03-22-2004 at 06:36 AM.

     
    Old 03-26-2004, 11:01 AM   #7
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    Re: Athletes, DMG, High Triglycerides and low O2

    I remembered wrong. I found the paperwork yesterday and his triglycerides were 700 something and his HDL was 39.

     
    Old 03-30-2004, 07:47 AM   #8
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    Re: Athletes, DMG, High Triglycerides and low O2

    How come nobody wants to talk about this?

     
    Old 03-30-2004, 09:43 AM   #9
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    Re: Athletes, DMG, High Triglycerides and low O2

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MariaS.
    How come nobody wants to talk about this?
    Maria:

    To be quite honest, I didn't feel like I was educated enough in this area to give an informed dialogue with regard to your specific question. But you certainly can get my opinion.

    From everything I have learned, and experienced from the high TG side of thing, and eventual MI at age 35--its not a good thing to be sure. Elevated plasma TG (or VLDL) is certainly a risk factor for heart disease. Elevated TG can also be indicative of kidney problems, liver problems, diabetes, familial, or possibly metabolic syndrome (from a sedentary lifestyle). Based on your husbands training, I would guess the last of those does not apply. It could be type V hyperlipoproteinemia where his body just can't process the TG efficiently so they "back up" in the bloodstream.

    When I started exercising, and losing weight, those two factors had a larger impact on lowering my TG than a reduction in total (or saturated) fat intake. My TG came back at one point as 638 mg/dL ( no clue how exact that measurement could be). Nowadays, with daily running and keeping my BMI <25, my TG don't exceed 45 mg/dL.

    I tend to agree with others in both posts, that treatment to lower the TG value in your husband should be sought rather than dismissed. The TG should not be accumulating to that level in the bloodstream in my opinion, and that much "sludge" from a logic standpoint is not going to be a good thing. The HDL that you posted in another thread (39 mg/dL) is just on the fringe of being acceptable.... I used to have mine int he 25-30 mg/dL range. Niaspan took me to 44 mg/dL with moderate exercise. Removal of all meds and running 3 miles daily keeps my HDL > 60 mg/dL. You said that your husband was fit from Judo training, but does he do any cardio? You won't necessarily get the full benefit to HDL without doing cardio most days of the week.

    There is also a link between elevated plasma TG and angina (I was unaware of this until it was just mentioned by jblondi, and I looked it up). Sure enough.... By the same token, I did read where that decreasing TG will not necessarily result in improved cardiovascular health (as you alluded to in some of your posts though.)

    The only thing I can say to that, though, is it's just not worth the risk to find out later that there is a relation. Might as well do all that one can (now) to keep the risk factors minimized--for many of us, we only get one chance at life to get it right.

     
    Old 03-30-2004, 11:38 AM   #10
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    Re: Athletes, DMG, High Triglycerides and low O2

    Well, since his mother has adult onset diabetes, we figure that his high TG and low HDL are symptomatic of metabolic syndrome which is pretty much pre-diabetes. We think it's important to fix the problem at the source rather than mask the symptom with drugs and then he still gets diabetes in 5 years or so.

    What do you mean by "cardio", ubernier? Do you mean does he get aerobic exercise? Are the two terms interchangable?

    If so, then the answer is yes. Judo is equivalent to high school wrestling in terms of energy expended and general effort expended (as well as what they are doing!). It's very strenous and the whole class is near falling down tired at the end of each session.

    However, right before this blood test, my husband had had 3 months of no exercise due to the club losing it's contract to work out in the building they were using. SO, no workouts for a while. They found a new place and have been going at it quite vigorously since January. His last blood test was in January. His next is due now. I expect an improvement-- but not complete, since he still needs the DMG in order to have stamina.

    Maybe you are right and we should start lipid lowering drugs. He has weird side effect to drugs sometimes though, and I'm hesitant to try it without a clear and present danger, so to speak. Since we are controlling his one problematic symptom, lack of stamina, with a non prescription "supplement" and it isn't causing him any weird side effects... I am hesitant to add a drug to the equation that I have seen many people on this board complain of the side effects of.

    I don't know. I'm going to call the doc and schedule a new blood test. More info is needed.

     
    Old 03-31-2004, 04:40 AM   #11
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    Re: Athletes, DMG, High Triglycerides and low O2

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MariaS.
    What do you mean by "cardio", ubernier? Do you mean does he get aerobic exercise? Are the two terms interchangable?

    If so, then the answer is yes. Judo is equivalent to high school wrestling in terms of energy expended and general effort expended (as well as what they are doing!). It's very strenous and the whole class is near falling down tired at the end of each session.
    I don't know exactly what Judo entails with respect to heartrate during workout, but the advantage comes best from keeping your heartrate elevated at least 20 min during exercise, e.g. when I run for 25 min, my HR stays between 145 bpm-160 bpm for the entire time. I know that I did not get this same benefit from playing football (or lets relate it back to the practices). Back then, I would much more exhausted after the practice than running 3 miles in the morning, but due to the nature of that exercise, it's not a sustained aerobic workout.

    Quote:
    However, right before this blood test, my husband had had 3 months of no exercise due to the club losing it's contract to work out in the building they were using. SO, no workouts for a while.
    .

    This might have had a significant effect. Hopefully, you will see the improvement that you mentioned.

    Quote:
    Maybe you are right and we should start lipid lowering drugs. He has weird side effect to drugs sometimes though, and I'm hesitant to try it without a clear and present danger, so to speak.
    I can understand the hesitation. I was there too, once. I had been diagnosed with what they at the time termed "pre-diabetes," followed by "type II diabetes." The metabolic syndrome/diabetes combo can lead to premature arteriosclerosis (it sure did in my case). That's why I am all in favor of impacting all the risk factors (for heart disease) that can be, whether by diet, exercise, weight loss, or even meds.

    Does your husband also have hypertension, which is also prevalent for those of us with metabolic syndrome?

    In any case, I wish him (and you) the best and that the return to competition/training will help his profile.

     
    Old 03-31-2004, 07:52 AM   #12
    MariaS.
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    Re: Athletes, DMG, High Triglycerides and low O2

    Well, he has "prehypertension" according to the new standards recently released by the government. I've read quite appalling articles by some people who claim that there is no such catagory and that people are perfectly healthy in that range and that it's all a ploy by the drug companies to get more people on medication and thus increase profits.

    So, I don't know what to think about that!

     
    Old 04-02-2004, 02:31 PM   #13
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    Re: Athletes, DMG, High Triglycerides and low O2

    WOOOOO HOOOOOO!!!!

    These are his new numbers:

    Total Cholesterol: 139 (was 192)
    Triglycerides: 248 (was 777)
    HDL: 34 (was 39)
    Cholesterol/hdl: 4.09
    LDL:55 (couldn't even calculate it before)
    LDL/HDL: 1.62

    And I asked them to test for insulin, as I'd seen someone on here recommend that for folks with metabolic syndrome, but they did a test on Glycohemoglobin A1C instead. I don't know if that is the same test or not. Probably not.

    Anyway, the result for that was: 5.5 --well within normal range.

    So, there it is!

    I don't think we'll go on drugs just yet. I bet when he finishes losing the weight he wants to, he'll be just fine.

    Last edited by MariaS.; 04-02-2004 at 02:36 PM.

     
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