It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



High Cholesterol Message Board

  • A case for statins and Zetia

  • Post New Thread   Closed Thread
    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Old 09-12-2004, 08:34 PM   #1
    rahod
    Veteran
     
    rahod's Avatar
     
    Join Date: May 2004
    Posts: 467
    rahod HB User
    A case for statins and Zetia

    Here is a real story:

    >>>OK, so it's been a little while since I have updated my story (about 8 weeks) and I would like you to know that I am alive and kicking (feeling good).
    So, here is my current state, as of today 5/14/04.


    I told you all about the Zetia, I started on that 8 weeks ago, along with all the other things I have been doing in this story. After 4 weeks of taking the Zetia I had a blood test done and it lowered my total cholesterol another 25 points down to 300, and lowered my ldl a significant amount.


    At that time , my doctor said that a new statin drug by the name of CRESTOR had been released and that supposedly it is cleaner than the other ones (easier on the Liver). He wanted to know if I wanted to give it a try, after discussing the situation further with him, we decided that I would try the new drug CRESTOR along with the ZETIA and all the other things that I've told you about in my story. We also agreed that I would have a complete blood test done in four weeks to make sure the liver count stayed in the normal zone.


    Four weeks later, which was four days ago, I went in for my blood test. Two days after that, the doctor called me on the phone at home (something that usually never occurs, I was expecting some bad news) but to my surprise, he said it was good news and my jaw just about dropped to the ground. He told me that my cholesterol had dropped to 162 with an HDL of 42 and an LDL of 100.


    I swear to god I almost fainted, for the first time in my life my cholesterol is below the normal range, and I have significantly reduced my chances of ever having a heart attack again. The doctor was so excited about the results he personally called me on the phone.


    Although my liver count did go up a notch, it is not enough to take me off the drug. Also, I was taking a 10 mg tablet of Crestor, and since the reduction was so drastic and so quick (4 weeks), we decided that I would back off some of the niacin and only take 5 mg of Crestor instead of 10 mg. We hope this will stop the liver count from escalating further while still allowing me to take the drug.


    I'm a very happy man, I will continue to update you on my situation, hoping that one day in the near future I can finally tell you that I no longer have to go in for blood tests. This would take the Doc being convinced that my liver will handle the amount of Niacin and Crestor that I need to sustain a normal level of cholesterol without having an elevated liver count. I just know I'm going to do it, I can feel it . Thanks to GOD and a lot of hard work myself and the beauty of modern technology and new drugs like Crestor and Zetia, people like me just might have a chance at living a full life, and for that I am very grateful. <<<

     
    Sponsors Lightbulb
       
    Old 09-13-2004, 11:07 AM   #2
    zip2play
    Inactive
     
    Join Date: Apr 2002
    Location: Jersey City, NJ
    Posts: 2,896
    zip2play HB User
    Re: A case for statins and Zetia

    Rahod,

    Take the 10 mg.
    Don't *uck with success.

     
    Old 09-13-2004, 11:21 AM   #3
    rahod
    Veteran
     
    rahod's Avatar
     
    Join Date: May 2004
    Posts: 467
    rahod HB User
    Re: A case for statins and Zetia

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zip2play
    Rahod,

    Take the 10 mg.
    Don't *uck with success.
    LOL...well, I was down to a solid/consistent 170 total and 93 LDL on 8mg Crestor (alternating 5mg 3X week/10mg4Xweek). Not bad, but my father had a stent job done at age 64 and now with the *CLINTON* news out (I'm his age with a similar baseline LDL..155) .....I decided to set an LDL goal of 70 for myself . So I went to 10 mg daily with 1/2 dose Zetia. I'll post results in 2 weeks. So far NO PROBLEMS after a week.

     
    Old 09-13-2004, 08:29 PM   #4
    rahod
    Veteran
     
    rahod's Avatar
     
    Join Date: May 2004
    Posts: 467
    rahod HB User
    Re: A case for statins and Zetia

    Found this on LDL..another reason for me to shoot for 70:

    Optimal low-density lipoprotein is 50 to 70 mg/dl: lower is better and physiologically normal.

    O'Keefe JH Jr, Cordain L, Harris WH, Moe RM, Vogel R.

    Mid America Heart Institute, Cardiovascular Consultants, Kansas City, Missouri 64111,

    The normal low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol range is 50 to 70 mg/dl for native hunter-gatherers, healthy human neonates, free-living primates, and other wild mammals (all of whom do not develop atherosclerosis). Randomized trial data suggest atherosclerosis progression and coronary heart disease events are minimized when LDL is lowered to <70 mg/dl. No major safety concerns have surfaced in studies that lowered LDL to this range of 50 to 70 mg/dl. The current guidelines setting the target LDL at 100 to 115 mg/dl may lead to substantial undertreatment in high-risk individuals.

     
    Old 09-14-2004, 05:55 AM   #5
    zip2play
    Inactive
     
    Join Date: Apr 2002
    Location: Jersey City, NJ
    Posts: 2,896
    zip2play HB User
    Re: A case for statins and Zetia

    Ho Ho Ho rahod,

    I beat you by about a week on the higher dosing...I've begun taking 10 mg. Lipitor in the morning and ANOTHER 10 mg. at night (OH, THE EXPENSE.)

    I don't know if I will keep it up but there's been no resurgence of joint complaints (never far away for me since I'm your senior by 2 or 3 years!)

    I REALLY should get in to my GP next week to see what it does to/for my lipid numbers.

    Last edited by zip2play; 09-14-2004 at 05:56 AM.

     
    Old 09-14-2004, 10:08 AM   #6
    rahod
    Veteran
     
    rahod's Avatar
     
    Join Date: May 2004
    Posts: 467
    rahod HB User
    Re: A case for statins and Zetia

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zip2play
    Ho Ho Ho rahod,

    I beat you by about a week on the higher dosing...I've begun taking 10 mg. Lipitor in the morning and ANOTHER 10 mg. at night (OH, THE EXPENSE.)

    I don't know if I will keep it up but there's been no resurgence of joint complaints (never far away for me since I'm your senior by 2 or 3 years!)

    I REALLY should get in to my GP next week to see what it does to/for my lipid numbers.
    ZIP...

    You MUST give Zetia a try and drop that extra 10 mg. The study has shown that 10 mg Liptior plus 10 mg Zetia = LDL lowering of 80mg Lipitor! Since Zetia isn't a statin and has a VERY LOW side effect profile, the combo is really the way to go here...in fact you could take 1/2 dose of Zetia as I do. 5 mg Zetia lowered LDL to a level that was 85% of the FULL 10 mg Zetia dose!

     
    Old 09-14-2004, 12:24 PM   #7
    ARIZONA73
    Senior Veteran
    (male)
     
    ARIZONA73's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Aug 2002
    Location: Fords, N.J. USA
    Posts: 2,263
    ARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB User
    Re: A case for statins and Zetia

    Why not just keep doubling the dose until LDL disappears completely?

     
    Old 09-14-2004, 12:46 PM   #8
    rahod
    Veteran
     
    rahod's Avatar
     
    Join Date: May 2004
    Posts: 467
    rahod HB User
    Re: A case for statins and Zetia

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ARIZONA73
    Why not just keep doubling the dose until LDL disappears completely?
    Firstly, as the article I sited (O'Keefe, et al) stated...the THRESHOLD for LDL is around 50- 70 range for eliminating/halting atherosclerotic changes..no need to "go to zero" . Second, there isn't a linear dose response in lowering LDL in the higher doses..you get less bang for your buck as you climb the mountain of higher dosing! That's what I like about adding ZETIA to a low dose statin. I really think that ALL DRS should consider adding ZETIA when attempting to lower LDL further to BEFORE trying a higher dose of statin.Of course that won't happen..primarily due to financial concerns.

    Last edited by rahod; 09-14-2004 at 06:17 PM. Reason: spelling

     
    Old 09-14-2004, 02:03 PM   #9
    rahod
    Veteran
     
    rahod's Avatar
     
    Join Date: May 2004
    Posts: 467
    rahod HB User
    Re: A case for statins and Zetia

    "10+10=80"


    In a study of 628 patients with primary hypercholesterolemia, ezetimibe plus 10 mg of atorvastatin was more effective than atorvastatin 10 mg, 20 mg, or 40 mg in lowering LDL-C levels. In fact, the LDL-C–lowering efficacy of 10 mg of ezetimibe plus 10 mg of atorvastatin was similar to 80 mg of atorvastatin. One method used to remember this clinical finding is the "formula" of "10 + 10 = 80."


    Ballantyne CM, Houri J, Notarbartolo A, et al., for the Ezetimibe Study Group. Effect of ezetimibe coadministered with atorvastatin in 628 patients with primary hypercholesterolemia: a prospective, randomized, double-blind trial. Circulation 2003;107;2409-2415.

     
    Old 09-14-2004, 03:04 PM   #10
    ARIZONA73
    Senior Veteran
    (male)
     
    ARIZONA73's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Aug 2002
    Location: Fords, N.J. USA
    Posts: 2,263
    ARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB User
    Re: A case for statins and Zetia

    The problem I have with these revised guidelines, particularly in regards to LDL, is that they may be pushing the envelope too far. There is a very real danger in reducing LDL too much. How low is too much? Who knows? But LDL is important because it is needed to transport fat-soluble nutrients to your cells. An LDL that is too low can conceivably result in a deficiency. LDL also is needed to transport important fatty acids to your heart, which is fuel for its source of energy. When statin drugs are used to lower LDL, they also cause a decline in the ability of your heart mitochondria to manufacture ATP fuel for muscle cells, making it weaker and weaker. That reduces your hearts ability to create enough energy to contract fully. This can lead to congestive heart failure which ultimately leads to death. I don't think that it is purely coincidental that cases of congestive heart failure have increased dramatically since statins were introduced. I think people who think that the lower the LDL the better are mistaken, because there is a real danger in it being too low.

     
    Old 09-14-2004, 06:22 PM   #11
    rahod
    Veteran
     
    rahod's Avatar
     
    Join Date: May 2004
    Posts: 467
    rahod HB User
    Re: A case for statins and Zetia

    "Randomized trial data suggest atherosclerosis progression and coronary heart disease events are minimized when LDL is lowered to <70 mg/dl. No major safety concerns have surfaced in studies that lowered LDL to this range of 50 to 70 mg/dl."

    So, apparently we have a target that poses no risk and significantly halts the progression of cardiovascular disease.

     
    Old 09-14-2004, 07:25 PM   #12
    ARIZONA73
    Senior Veteran
    (male)
     
    ARIZONA73's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Aug 2002
    Location: Fords, N.J. USA
    Posts: 2,263
    ARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB User
    Re: A case for statins and Zetia

    I can't say that I would agree with that. I'm more inclined to agree with the study out of Munich, which was posted by Arkie6. It makes far more sense to determine a person's actual risk by measuring LDL by breaking it down into its appropriate class, such as Pattern A and Pattern B. By doing so, you can isolate who is actually at risk, and who isn't. It makes absolutely no sense to prescribe a drug based on a single LDL number. It's just plain crazy, and you end up with more people being prescribed drugs than is necessary. And don't forget, it is lipoprotein(a) which causes this stuff to stick to arteries. So that needs to be measured as well.

     
    Old 09-14-2004, 08:07 PM   #13
    rahod
    Veteran
     
    rahod's Avatar
     
    Join Date: May 2004
    Posts: 467
    rahod HB User
    Re: A case for statins and Zetia

    Cut it anyway you want....but...studies show that *LDL* as currently defined..when LOWERED to sub 70, results in virtually NO cardiovascular disease.

     
    Old 09-18-2004, 07:39 PM   #14
    ty123
    Inactive
     
    Join Date: Sep 2004
    Posts: 205
    ty123 HB User
    Re: A case for statins and Zetia

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rahod
    Cut it anyway you want....but...studies show that *LDL* as currently defined..when LOWERED to sub 70, results in virtually NO cardiovascular disease.
    70 is a great number...wish I had it, but like most other things it can't be considered by itself. Your HDL is THE most important number. For example, I have a friend from a long-lived family. She's 64 and has a total cholesterol a bit over 200. However, her HDL is 75. Her LDL is around 100, but her ratio of HDL to total cholesterol is roughly 2.75, and her LDL to HDL is about 1.3.

    If she was anymore bullet proof she'd be superman. The high HDL runs in her family, and they all live into their 90's.

    Now, I'm struggling just to bring my HDL back up to 40, so my only option is to bring LDL down to 70...if I can. In a few years we'll probably have drugs like Torcetrapib that are designed to raise HDL.

    Right now, we can take lipitor, cut out the sugar, and drink a belt of merlot.

    mark

     
    Old 09-19-2004, 04:59 AM   #15
    ARIZONA73
    Senior Veteran
    (male)
     
    ARIZONA73's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Aug 2002
    Location: Fords, N.J. USA
    Posts: 2,263
    ARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB User
    Re: A case for statins and Zetia

    Although I understand that everybody's situation may be different, I think that it would be a good idea to have the LDL measured first before hacking and slashing it all the way down to 70. A single number doesn't say very much without a breakdown of LDL particle size. For example, suppose you were told that a baseball game was played, and a total of 9 runs were scored, but that's all you were told? It doesn't tell you very much, does it? It doesn't tell you who won the game, and how many runs each team scored. You need to know the breakdown. You deserve to know exactly where you stand, because particle size does matter. A person with an LDL of 150 who is predominantly Pattern A may be at much less of a risk than someone who has an LDL of 90 but is predominantly Pattern B.

     
    Closed Thread

    Related Topics
    Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
    scared of statins filly1 High Cholesterol 11 09-14-2009 09:31 PM
    Cut Statins or Zetia love2fish High Cholesterol 12 01-15-2008 12:30 PM
    Nonalcoholic Liver Disease associated with adverse reactions to statins? huckfinn Liver & Pancreas Disorders 2 08-05-2007 12:02 PM
    Dr just put me on Zetia because I can't take statins clerky96 High Cholesterol 6 02-13-2007 08:51 PM
    My First Week Off Statins-Big Improvement Imacarbuff High Cholesterol 31 09-23-2006 03:19 PM
    Side effects from statins ? dinney High Cholesterol 35 05-23-2006 09:27 PM
    What's the alternative to Statins? Moxie75 High Cholesterol 41 10-24-2005 04:15 PM
    Fighting Cholesterol w/out Statins...Personal Update cokids High Cholesterol 31 10-20-2004 12:29 PM




    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Search this Thread:

    Advanced Search

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is Off
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are Off
    Pingbacks are Off
    Refbacks are Off




    Sign Up Today!

    Ask our community of thousands of members your health questions, and learn from others experiences. Join the conversation!

    I want my free account

    All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:20 AM.





    © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved.
    Do not copy or redistribute in any form!