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    Old 08-22-2005, 12:45 PM   #1
    EKGnormal
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    High Cholesterol-You Must Read this!

    I've been in the Drug Industry for over 2 decades now and I have never seen so much deceit as I do now. Your Doctor has been fed a lot of Bull for years now, about Cholesterol. When I first started selling cholesterol drugs, few even treated it and if they did, total cholesterol was supposed to be at 300mg/dl. But now they have to treat it because they can't afford to go to court. If you weren't treated and you died of a Heart Attack with High Cholesterol. Your family attorney could clean them out, end their practice.
    Some are so very passionate about cholesterol, having had reps and Pharma Co-paid Dr'sto come talk to them for years. They say the data is convincing, but they don't understand statistics as well as some might think. And you know the rule about Statiscians... I should know I meet with these Dr's all the time.
    However, there is a growing number of physicians that are questioning this data and especially the use of statins. I have sold 2 statins and 2 other drugs for high cholesterol and I no longer believe in them.
    I urge you to go to this site,
    [url]http://www.medicalconsumers.org/pages/cholesterol_skeptics.html[/url]
    and read it for yourself.
    But don't try to convince your Dr. in your visit. Because until attorney's stop trying to sue over every possible issue, things will not change.
    For those that will ask what I suggest, I've seen enough on Omega 3's to believe they are far better for your body.

     
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    Old 08-22-2005, 12:51 PM   #2
    EKGnormal
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    Re: High Cholesterol-You Must Read this!

    A study in the April 2005 issue of Archives of Internal Medicine examines all randomized, controlled trials published between 1965 and 2003 that compared a lipid lowering strategy with a placebo or usual care. The authors determined that 97 studies met their eligibility criteria. Combining all these studies they were able to examine over 130,000 people in treatment groups compared with an almost equal number of people in control groups.

    The authors found that compared with the control groups the risk ratio for death was reduced by 23% for omega-3 (or n-3) fatty acids, 16% for resins, 13% for statins, 4% for niacin, 3% for diet, and 0% for fibrates. “Our study confirms the benefit of statins in reducing the risk of overall cardiac mortality in patients with or without CHD [Coronary Heart Disease] and additionally shows that n-3 fatty acids reduce overall and cardiac mortality in patients with CHD.”

    They note that in the class of medications, fibrates, there was “no reduction in overall mortality and an increased risk of death from noncardiovascular causes in individuals taking fibrates compared with individuals in placebo or control groups.”

    If used at a correct dosage, omega-3 fatty acids are just as effective as fibrates at reducing triglyceride levels, but unlike fibrates they are associated with an overall reduction in mortality. However, omega-3 fatty acids only slightly lower cholesterol, which means that their benefit is also through other mechanisms. “Studies suggest that n-3 fatty acids may have antiarrhythmic properties with membrane bilizing effects in addition to an antithrombotic and anti-inflammatory properties on the endothelial level.”

    Omega-3 fatty acids include eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexanoic acid (DHA), both found primarily in oily cold-water fish such as mackerel, salmon, and tuna. Apart from seaweed, plant foods rarely contain EPA or DHA. Alpha-linolenic acid (ALA), is found primarily in dark green leafy vegetables, flaxseed oils, pumpkin seeds, walnuts, and certain vegetable oils. There are no known side effects associated with increasing your intake of omega-3 fatty acids through foods, although fish oil capsules do pose the risk of an unpleasant, fishy aftertaste that occurs with some brands of fish oil capsules. In addition, omega-3 fatty acids may increase the blood-thinning effects of warfarin or aspirin.

     
    Old 08-22-2005, 03:23 PM   #3
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    Re: High Cholesterol-You Must Read this!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by EKGnormal
    I've been in the Drug Industry for over 2 decades now and I have never seen so much deceit as I do now. Your Doctor has been fed a lot of Bull for years now, about Cholesterol. When I first started selling cholesterol drugs, few even treated it and if they did, total cholesterol was supposed to be at 300mg/dl. But now they have to treat it because they can't afford to go to court. If you weren't treated and you died of a Heart Attack with High Cholesterol. Your family attorney could clean them out, end their practice.
    Some are so very passionate about cholesterol, having had reps and Pharma Co-paid Dr'sto come talk to them for years. They say the data is convincing, but they don't understand statistics as well as some might think. And you know the rule about Statiscians... I should know I meet with these Dr's all the time.
    However, there is a growing number of physicians that are questioning this data and especially the use of statins. I have sold 2 statins and 2 other drugs for high cholesterol and I no longer believe in them.
    I urge you to go to this site,
    [url]http://www.medicalconsumers.org/pages/cholesterol_skeptics.html[/url]
    and read it for yourself.
    But don't try to convince your Dr. in your visit. Because until attorney's stop trying to sue over every possible issue, things will not change.
    For those that will ask what I suggest, I've seen enough on Omega 3's to believe they are far better for your body.
    Hopefully alot more drs. will start questioning these drugs and also believe their patients that have nasty side effects. I know way too many people who are sick of their drs, trying to force U to take them, even with NO other risk factors, and only mildy elevated cholesterol. I know the drs are scared of the lawsuits and that is partially peoples own fault, as they are getting sue happy and also get too much for some nonsense stuff. Yes, there are some real cases out there that need to be dealt with, but some U read about are down and out ridiculous.

    Thanx for the info..........

     
    Old 08-22-2005, 06:08 PM   #4
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    Re: High Cholesterol-You Must Read this!

    I know that when I told my doctor I wasn't totally convinced of the necessity of getting my numbers down as low as she wanted them (TC under 200, LDL under 100), she said she would document that she had warned me and promptly started writing in my records. That's okay, but with a TC/HDL ratio of 2.8, I just can't get too excited about it, even though my TC is 239. At least she didn't push statins. I'm on niacin.

    My doctor gave me many photocopies of charts from the most recent conference she had attended. But then I came home and looked up some of the studies they took these from. The majority of the charts came from the Treating to New Targets (TNT) study. And what I discovered was that cancer deaths and the all-cause mortality were not significantly different. Of course, the charts didn't show that!

     
    Old 08-22-2005, 06:56 PM   #5
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    Re: High Cholesterol-You Must Read this!

    i agree statins can be bad and side effects on some but if u could find one that u only have to be on a couple months with no side effects would be a good one 7-5-2005 my cholesterol 313, triglyceride 1377,hdl 51,couldnt get a number on vldl or ldl doctor started me on zocor 40 mg at bedtime no side effects so far and my numbers are as of 8-18-2005 cholesterol 208,triglycerides 252,hdl 49,vldl 50,ldl 109,in just that short of time numbers way down i should be off zocor next month.

     
    Old 08-22-2005, 11:28 PM   #6
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    Re: High Cholesterol-You Must Read this!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dazedandconfused1
    i agree statins can be bad and side effects on some but if u could find one that u only have to be on a couple months with no side effects would be a good one 7-5-2005 my cholesterol 313, triglyceride 1377,hdl 51,couldnt get a number on vldl or ldl doctor started me on zocor 40 mg at bedtime no side effects so far and my numbers are as of 8-18-2005 cholesterol 208,triglycerides 252,hdl 49,vldl 50,ldl 109,in just that short of time numbers way down i should be off zocor next month.
    Hi dazed & confused,

    Did your doctor check your homocysteine? Homocysteine is a better indicator of heart health than total cholesterol. Elevated homocysteine indicates "inflammation". Optimal homocysteine is 6.2 or less. Remedy is the B vitamins, especially folic acid, B6 and B12.

    I hope you meant your trig's were 377 and not 1377 ???
    Cinnamon will help your triglycerides. Take two 500mg capsules (easiest) or 1/2 teaspoon daily (sprinkle on whatever). AND eliminate "white stuff".... bread, rice, potatoes, flour and especially SUGAR.

    AND once you start statins, it's a lifelong commitment. You stop and your numbers go back up unless you alter your eating habits. The low fat, low cholesterol diet is not effective either. Your body needs fat, protein and conplex carbs.

    Your VLDL should be 30 or less. Are you taking Omega 3 (fish oil or cod liver oil)? Start with 1,000mg and increase as needed.

    Please note that your good HDL cholesterol is declining along with your other numbers. Omega 3 should help that also.

    Frankie

     
    Old 08-23-2005, 04:10 PM   #7
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    Re: High Cholesterol-You Must Read this!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JJ
    I had a dr. that basically told me if I didn't take something for my cholesterol he wouldn't treat me, so I said BYE!! I'm sick of the scare tactic as are a few of my friends. I have a new dr. and she is a lil of a pain, but so far we haven't really gotten into it, but I know she is trying to push, but I kind of push back. Just have to wait and see how it goes, cause if she starts making me aggravated, she will go too.
    JJ,

    If I remember correctly, didn't you say that you had already taken a couple of different statins, and that you had problems each time? That being the case, it was wrong for your doctor to refuse to treat you. Do you mean that he still wanted you on statins, even though you had problems with them? And now your new doctor is also attempting to nudge you back on them? I just can't understand such warped logic. Apparently the Hipocratic oath, which stipulates "First, do no harm", is meaningless in today's world of medicine. Maybe it should now be replaced with the phrase, "First and foremost, remain totally loyal and obedient to the drug cartels."
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    Old 08-23-2005, 04:28 PM   #8
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    Re: High Cholesterol-You Must Read this!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ARIZONA73
    JJ,

    If I remember correctly, didn't you say that you had already taken a couple of different statins, and that you had problems each time? That being the case, it was wrong for your doctor to refuse to treat you. Do you mean that he still wanted you on statins, even though you had problems with them? And now your new doctor is also attempting to nudge you back on them? I just can't understand such warped logic. Apparently the Hipocratic oath, which stipulates "First, do no harm", is meaningless in today's world of medicine. Maybe it should now be replaced with the phrase, "First and foremost, remain totally loyal and obedient to the drug cartels."

    Your absolutely right. I was on Lipitor, Baycol and Whelcol, and yes, the drs. knew this but still tried to convince me to try another "newer" one. I already told this new dr. I am NOT about to try anything..new or old, but she kind of gives me a look like, hmmmm. I don't care if I have to try every dr. in CT. until I find one that is not a stinking pill pusher, as I am not about to go thru the problems I had due to their stupid cholesterol drugs.

    It took my GI guy almost a year to fix my problems, those things screwed my insides up like crazy. I had constant diarrhea for 6 months, and except for crackers, cheese, ginger ale and baby food, that was it for solid foods for me. They ran every test U can think of on me, and finally decided it was the statins that messed me up, so if this new dr. wants to try and get me to go thru that again, she had best think twice. Good grief, I was practically housebound all that time, not a fun way to live!! Even my GYN guy told me I am doing just about everything right, so if my cholesterol is a lil high, then the drs. will have to deal with it. God I wish I could make him my PCP, he is so understanding and I have known him since he interned with my older GYN who retired 3 years ago. Oh well, don't get me started, U know how I can go off.......

    Have a good one, and TTYL...

     
    Old 08-23-2005, 05:36 PM   #9
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    Re: High Cholesterol-You Must Read this!

    JJ,

    Other than the usual highly speculative and questionable numbers game, which doctors rely so heavily on, has ANY of your doctors been able to give you any other valid reasons why it should be necessary for you to take these drugs?

    Personally, I think I would trust and respect those physicians who practice Complementary Medicine. Such doctors are not quacks, but they are knowledgeable not only in the prescribing of drugs, but also in alternative forms of treatment, such as nutritional supplements. I know that such physicians are still very much in the minority and hard to come by, but there is some evidence that things are finally beginning to change, as more and more doctors are beginning to realize that nutrition and other forms of alternative medicine may be of value. But by and large, mainstream medicine, especially here in the U.S, thinks that their way is the only way. They are so totally close-minded that their inflated egos will not allow for any possibility that there may be a better way. There are other countries in other parts of the world that treat patients in ways that are not accepted here. But that doesn't mean that they're not successful. It's just that we won't accept it here, because mainstream medicine is handcuffed to the highly influential drug companies.
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    Old 08-23-2005, 06:06 PM   #10
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    Re: High Cholesterol-You Must Read this!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ARIZONA73
    JJ,

    Other than the usual highly speculative and questionable numbers game, which doctors rely so heavily on, has ANY of your doctors been able to give you any other valid reasons why it should be necessary for you to take these drugs?

    Personally, I think I would trust and respect those physicians who practice Complementary Medicine. Such doctors are not quacks, but they are knowledgeable not only in the prescribing of drugs, but also in alternative forms of treatment, such as nutritional supplements. I know that such physicians are still very much in the minority and hard to come by, but there is some evidence that things are finally beginning to change, as more and more doctors are beginning to realize that nutrition and other forms of alternative medicine may be of value. But by and large, mainstream medicine, especially here in the U.S, thinks that their way is the only way. They are so totally close-minded that their inflated egos will not allow for any possibility that there may be a better way. There are other countries in other parts of the world that treat patients in ways that are not accepted here. But that doesn't mean that they're not successful. It's just that we won't accept it here, because mainstream medicine is handcuffed to the highly influential drug companies.
    Nope, all they say is the same ole crap, "Got to get the numbers good". My old dr. never bothered me, as he said, my numbers were always a lil high but seeing I had nothing pressing going on, don't worry about it. He knew me for 35 yrs., and knew I am not a junk food eater, never touched an illegal drug in my life, don't drink, most I've ever been is about 12 lbs. over my weight limit. Only vice I have, is I smoke on and off, so ok, I have a vice, never said I was perfect....

    Geez, hubby certainly has more risks then I do, yet both his PCP and cardio man leave him be. Like they said, if his quality of life was so horrid on statins, then it isn't worth it. His cardio man even told me, if I get a dr. who bugs me about statins, to drop em and find another, as no person who has had a rotten experience with them should be forced to take them.

    2 weeks ago I had a complete physical and she said everything was fine, and if U look below, I just posted my new numbers. Man, if she ain't happy with that, then forget it, she is impossible. I told her when I first went to her all the problems I had, and she gave me the impression statins weren't that big a deal for me. My SIL just changed drs. and first thing she told him was "Don't even think of trying to shove statins on me". He assured her he wouldn't, but 8 months later, cause her Trigs. are a tad high, now he is talking drugs, and she is getting aggravated. Hubby has 3 cousins that are drs., my SIL works for 2 drs. and my son just graduated nursing school, too bad they are all in Fl. They have told me they have patients that can't tolerate statins, so they just try as many natural things as possible, and let the people do the best they can.

    I hear ya about the natural drs., as my girlfriend is going to one. She told me he is ok, but she isn't as fond of him as her regular MD. WE don't have many around here at all, and what few there are, are way too far to travel to see them. Like I said, I will have another talk with her and if she gives me grief, I will find someone else, as I am NOT going to go thru another dr. that is number happy, plus she seems to think your cholesterol should be checked every 3 months. That is not sitting very well with me, as she knows I won't take anything, and I have so far never had numbers extremely high, so why waste my time and money. God, some days I swear ya can't win!!

     
    Old 08-23-2005, 06:14 PM   #11
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    Re: High Cholesterol-You Must Read this!

    frankie no my triglycerides was 1377 no im not taking omea3 im not sure she did the blood test for that i know i had a ekg stress test and a doppler test came back fine

     
    Old 08-23-2005, 07:27 PM   #12
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    Re: High Cholesterol-You Must Read this!

    JJ,

    Well, as Linus Pauling once said, of all the professions, the medical profession is the one in which the individual practitioners do the smallest amount of thinking for themselves. I think that says quite a lot.
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    Old 08-23-2005, 07:39 PM   #13
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    Re: High Cholesterol-You Must Read this!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ARIZONA73
    JJ,

    Well, as Linus Pauling once said, of all the professions, the medical profession is the one in which the individual practitioners do the smallest amount of thinking for themselves. I think that says quite a lot.
    Well, until the last couple of years, I had no problems with drs. This new one has only been in practice for 2 years, so maybe she is heavily influenced? Like I said, I am definitely going to have a good LONG talk with her, as except for the cholesterol thing, she seems pretty nice.

    I even had an Echo done last year, and they said everything looked just fine, and all those reports went to her, so don't ask me what the problem is. Needless to say, I am not going to worry my lil brain about it, I have plenty of other things to keep my mind occupied, and am not playing the numbers game. Like anything, time will tell.

    Have a great evening, and enjoy this nice cool weather while it lasts. Where was all of it 2 months ago? Take care, and TTYL....

     
    Old 08-24-2005, 07:19 PM   #14
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    Re: High Cholesterol-You Must Read this!

    My mom took lipitor for a few yrs and her liver enzymes (sp?) were elevated. She was taken off lipitor. Now her new dr wants her to take zorcor. At first he tried to get her to take zetia, but she refused.

     
    Old 08-26-2005, 10:06 AM   #15
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    Re: High Cholesterol-You Must Read this!

    Oh I have come across alot of them myself over the years. Hubby doesn't surf around and see many, so I send him anything good I find. I got him to try the cinnamon the last few days, so really hoping that will help his Trigs, as they have drove us nuts for years. Even when he was on Lipitor, it did nothing for his Trigs. Lowest he ever got was 315, so we are going to concentrate on those for now.

    Have a great day, and will CYL....

    Last edited by moderator2; 08-26-2005 at 08:01 PM.

     
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