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    Old 03-28-2006, 01:20 PM   #1
    gardeninggal
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    a question about cholesterol

    I know what too much cholesterol is but can someone tell me if they have heard or read what the too low number may be. I am concerned with too low cholesterol because of the problems that come from not having enough. I know that the statin drug makers would have us believe we should have very low numbers but I would like to hear of a report from someone not selling or having any affiliation with drug companies. If you know of any such report will you share the info.?

     
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    Old 03-28-2006, 08:20 PM   #2
    ARIZONA73
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    Re: a question about cholesterol

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gardeninggal
    I know what too much cholesterol is but can someone tell me if they have heard or read what the too low number may be. I am concerned with too low cholesterol because of the problems that come from not having enough. I know that the statin drug makers would have us believe we should have very low numbers but I would like to hear of a report from someone not selling or having any affiliation with drug companies. If you know of any such report will you share the info.?
    Personally, I know of no such report regarding low cholesterol, although I understand that if someone artificially lowers his or her cholesterol too much that it can have undesirable effects, such as an increased risk of cancer, among other side-effects. How much is too low? Who knows? I think it largely depends on the individual.

    Now, as far as high cholesterol is concerned, please bear in mind the fact that there are plenty of people walking around with cholesterol levels in the 300+ range who will live well into their 80s and 90s, with no evidence of heart disease. I believe that inflammation is the root cause of heart disease, not some bogus cholesterol number.
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    Old 03-28-2006, 09:36 PM   #3
    gardeninggal
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    Re: a question about cholesterol

    Yes Arizona, I agree with you. I just thought it might be good to know if one is lowering ones cholesterol too much. Some of the statins lower it too much and then a whole set of other problems crop up. I am working to lower mine a bit with niacin, fish oil and policosanol and now garlic pills and want to be careful not to go too far. thanks for all your good advice in the past. By the way my garlic came from Puritan's Pride today and I am starting my experiment to see if hubby can detect any odor, I haven't told him I am taking it so we will see. My niacin came also and what a savings.

     
    Old 03-29-2006, 06:25 AM   #4
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    Re: a question about cholesterol

    There is no "too low number." Almost the entire medical field agrees that the lower the better.
    If one has risks of heart disease, lower is necessary.

    What we in Western overfed societies see as "normal" cholesterol (to go with "normal" heart disease) is preposteroulsly high compared to some cultures with almost nonexistant heart disease and vanishingly low heart disease rates.

    People strolling around in their 90's with cholesterol numbers in the 300's might possibly exist but I'm sure that they are far fewer in number than two pack a day smokers in their 90's who start off with a stogie for breakfast. Bell curve distributions make for the quirks at either end, that's the nature of a large distribution, but rest assured, you can search til you're blue in the face and you'll NEVER come upon someone in his 90's with a cholesterol that has been over 300 for many years...unless you start digging up cemetaries.

     
    Old 03-29-2006, 08:37 AM   #5
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    Re: a question about cholesterol

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lenin
    There is no "too low number." Almost the entire medical field agrees that the lower the better.
    If one has risks of heart disease, lower is necessary.
    Lenin,

    I don't quite buy into the idea that there is no cholesterol level that is too low.

    It is true that when LDL goes <= 70, that atherosclerosis stops progressing, and even starts reversing (slowly).

    However, we do need cholesterol. What the optimal level should be is still an elusive question.

    But I'm sure if your total cholesterol were to drop close to zero, you'd be dead in a short while... So if going to zero causes death, then at what level does it cause serious health problems short of death?

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    Old 03-29-2006, 07:58 PM   #6
    ARIZONA73
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    Re: a question about cholesterol

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lenin
    Bell curve distributions make for the quirks at either end, that's the nature of a large distribution, but rest assured, you can search til you're blue in the face and you'll NEVER come upon someone in his 90's with a cholesterol that has been over 300 for many years...unless you start digging up cemetaries.
    Oh, come one, give me a break! Surely you must be joking! By the way, where is your evidence to the contrary? I still stand by what I just said. There are in fact many people with high cholesterol levels who live well into their 80s and 90s without ever developing heart disease.
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    Old 03-30-2006, 06:48 AM   #7
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    Re: a question about cholesterol

    ARIZONA,
    My last encounter with a 300+ cholesterol was my doorman. He retired 2 months ago with health problems...I heard he died of a heart attack on Monday...at 51! THAT'S the scenario for a 300 cholesterol! Do YOU know any old people with cholesterol numbers in the 300's or was that hyperbole? <somewhat rhetorical >

    Hubble...
    I guess we can say that somewhere between zero and "less than 70" then. It's an ongoing process...a few years ago any numbers like an LDL of 60 were viewed as impossibly low. Now numbers like that are commonly used to reverse heart disease, whether with the Ornish diet or statin drugs.
    I've gone into the 60's by merely doubling my Lipitor to 20 mg. and adding a little niacin. I'm debating trying for the 50's but must consider the cost and risk of a 40 mg. Lipitor dose. But if I could get an LDL of 30 without superhuman efforts and superlarge amounts of drugs, I would do so in a heartbeat.

    When we hear about people dropping over from low cholesterol I'll begin to worry...otherwise, I'll attribute the "dangers of low cholesterol" nonsense to the meat and dairy lobby and their Mercola-like mouthpieces.

    Last edited by Lenin; 03-30-2006 at 06:55 AM.

     
    Old 03-30-2006, 06:45 PM   #8
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    Re: a question about cholesterol

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lenin
    ARIZONA,
    My last encounter with a 300+ cholesterol was my doorman. He retired 2 months ago with health problems...I heard he died of a heart attack on Monday...at 51! THAT'S the scenario for a 300 cholesterol! Do YOU know any old people with cholesterol numbers in the 300's or was that hyperbole? <somewhat rhetorical >
    Lenin,

    I am not exactly in the habit of surveying senior citizens to find out what their cholesterol levels are, but I think it's pretty safe to say that there are indeed such people, and not all of them are afflicted with heart disease. Interestingly, most people I have asked at work either don't know or can't remember. And even if they do know their total cholesterol, they either don't know or can't remember what their other numbers are. So I think that overall, most people do not have the same level of interest or understanding as do many people on this board.

    But back to the 300 Club. I would like to get more detailed statistics on them as well. I'm sure this information must be available somewhere. It's my opinion that if these statistics were made available to the public, most people would be surprised to learn that there would be statistically very little difference in coronary heart disease events compared to the rest of the population, as was reported by the Framingham Study.

    There is one 55 year old man where I work who told me that his cholesterol was in the high 200s (between 250-300), and that his doctor wanted to put him on statins, but he refused. Anyway, his doctor did convince him to undergo some tests in order to determine if he had any blockages. When he got his results back, his doctor told him that he had the heart of a 20 year old. Go figure.
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    Old 04-14-2006, 02:56 AM   #9
    Beefsteak
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    Lightbulb Re: a question about cholesterol

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ARIZONA73
    Lenin,

    There is one 55 year old man where I work who told me that his cholesterol was in the high 200s (between 250-300), and that his doctor wanted to put him on statins, but he refused. Anyway, his doctor did convince him to undergo some tests in order to determine if he had any blockages. When he got his results back, his doctor told him that he had the heart of a 20 year old. Go figure.
    I think the answer here is there is a genetic factor too. The genetic factor leads to greater arterial damage or what amounts to poorer circulation.
    That's without considering blood pressure, smoking, and being overweight - all of which amount to a greater cardio workload.
    What happens then is the heart grows larger from the workload and when that happens the walls of the heart become thinner and blood flow to the heart itself is more constrained.
    Cholesterol is just one factor - it cannot be singled out as a cause for every person.

    Last edited by Beefsteak; 04-14-2006 at 08:30 AM.

     
    Old 04-15-2006, 12:04 PM   #10
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    Re: a question about cholesterol

    I worked in a Nursing Home for many years before I retired. I can say with certainty that there are many people over eighty and ninty years old that have extremely high cholesterol. I got into trouble once by asking a doctor why he was prescribing statins to an eight-five year old lady that did not want to take any medicine at all. I feel like it is a sin to make these elderly people take things that they do not want to take and is not going to prolong thier life at all.

    My husband has had three heart attacks and has never had a cholesterol over 180.

    I read about a study where patients with mental illnesses were found to have a very low cholesterol. I wish that I could go back and find it, but did not think much about it at the time.

    I also read an article in one of the medical journals that said that half the people that have heart trouble have low cholesterol and half high cholesterol.

     
    Old 04-15-2006, 02:18 PM   #11
    ARIZONA73
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    Re: a question about cholesterol

    Heartsy,

    I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, I'm becoming more and more convinced that the medical profession is chasing after the wrong suspect (cholesterol). As far as prescribing statins to elderly people, such as that 85 year old woman, well I think that's just plain silly. I mean, what's the point? As a matter of fact, elderly people seem to fare better and live longer with higher cholesterol levels rather than lower ones. And I don't think that statins have ever been shown to benefit anyone in this age group. If anything, they're only likely to create more problems.
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    Old 04-15-2006, 02:21 PM   #12
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    Re: a question about cholesterol

    There is plenty of published information on longevity and high cholesterol... Some of the best are long term nursing home studies they were not conducted by drug companies. Yes low cholesterol can cause mental problems, and is also a know cause of increased violence..

     
    Old 04-15-2006, 03:11 PM   #13
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    Re: a question about cholesterol

    I don't remember exactly where I've read this but it was more than one place...I had read that statins do nothing for women. But yet, I am still trying to take my prescription of Vytorin because it has been drilled into our heads so much that I am frightened NOT to take it.

     
    Old 05-15-2006, 12:32 PM   #14
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    Re: a question about cholesterol

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cin4676
    I don't remember exactly where I've read this but it was more than one place...I had read that statins do nothing for women. But yet, I am still trying to take my prescription of Vytorin because it has been drilled into our heads so much that I am frightened NOT to take it.

    I just stopped taking Vitorin as I started to feel pain in my legs and back. I'm on high blood pressure and couldn't get my blood pressure down. A week after I stopped the vitorin my blood pressure dropped 10 points. Every time my cholesterol gets way down I have problems. 3 years I was taking Zocor and got my total down to 99 and I had bad pains in the ribs so bad I droped 30 pounds and all my family thought I was going to die. I stopped the zocor and after many tests they couldn't find anything but the drs wouldn't pin it on Zocor. I talk to the dr when I see him next month about stopping vitorin.

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    Old 05-30-2006, 08:51 AM   #15
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    Re: a question about cholesterol

    I think you should be looking for the ration of good to bad cholesterol , there no point in lowering your overall number if if the good chol.....

    Even raising chol is ok if you raise you good chol level. theres lots of new research out there. Look to site on Virgin Coconut Oils.

    a good plave to start is :- www.loracrow.com there are also other links there with more if.

    good luck

    Peter

     
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