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    Old 08-14-2008, 08:30 PM   #1
    pisces0301
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    don't want to go on meds

    I got a callback from my doctor regarding my latest cholesterol bloodwork. Here are the results:

    Total: 236
    Trig: 285
    HDL: 63
    LDL: 116

    And these are the results from 6 months ago:

    Total 221
    Trig: 242
    HDL: 57
    LDL: 116

    Since there has been little positive change they want to put me on Tricor 145mg for a month and check it again. I hear Tricor has some musclular side effects and I'm already on BP meds and really do not want to roll the dice with another pill.

    I rarely eat fast food, and keep my diet pretty healthy. I also work out 4-5 days a week and am in optimal shape for my age (39). Since my HDL is excellent I am wondering why the Total and Trig have gone up. Are there more tests I can take that can perhaps isolate the cause of this? My mom was recently diagnosed diabetic, but not the real bad kind where you need insulin shots. Do these numbers reflect any kind of pre-diabetic state? And if meds is the best way to go, what is the one the works the best with the least side effects?

    Thanks to any who respond!!!

     
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    Old 08-15-2008, 12:49 AM   #2
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    Re: don't want to go on meds

    I'd suggest fish oil at 3 grams of Omega 3s daily (split into 2 doses) + reduction in carbs (including wheat).

    I'm not a big fan of Tricor myself. The studies on fibrates are less than convincing to me. Fish oil even comes in a prescription form (Lovaza/Omacor), if you feel wary of taking an over the counter supplement.

    The following tests are worth getting too: VAP, c-reactive protein, homocysteine, and hA1c. The latter test will show your glucose control over the past 2-3 months, so will help determine if you are in a pre-diabetic state or not.

    Hope this info is helpful.

     
    Old 08-17-2008, 06:39 AM   #3
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    Re: don't want to go on meds

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pisces0301 View Post
    I got a callback from my doctor regarding my latest cholesterol bloodwork. Here are the results:

    Total: 236
    Trig: 285
    HDL: 63
    LDL: 116

    Since there has been little positive change they want to put me on Tricor 145mg for a month and check it again. I hear Tricor has some musclular side effects and I'm already on BP meds and really do not want to roll the dice with another pill.


    Thanks to any who respond!!!
    Hi Pisces0301

    I am assuming that your blood pressure is under control (<140/90) and you have no other CVD risks. If this is the case, for a man of your age and physical condition, you should not have been prescribed Tricor.

    Your TC/HDL ratio is excellent at 3.73 (=<4.5 being the target), so you are in the low risk bracket there.
    Your LDL/HDL ratio is 1.84 (=<3 being the target) and once again fall in the low risk category.

    The doctor should have solely concentrated on your triglycerides which are only a tad high. Target for this is 2.3mmol/L (203.5 mg/dl)

    I agree with namelessme, fish oil will reduce your trigs. However, personally I believe 3 grams a day is initially a little excessive. As long as the EPA content is =>600mg and the DHA is => 400mg which can be obtained from 2 x 1gram capsules, then this will do the trick.

    Triglycerides and glucose levels increase significantly when a fatty meal is eaten, circulates in the blood but is stored as body fat. Although fasting for 10-12 hours prior to blood work, if you have consumed a saturated fatty meal three or four days prior to the test, your trigs will still show high.

    A person who has 'normal' 204mg/dl Trig level who consumes a fatty meal can immediately increase their triglycerides level to between 265 and 354mg/dl.

    People who are TRULY hypertriglyceridaemic have fasting levels of 442 to 619.5mg/dl, but these rise to 708 to 796.4mg/dl after a fatty meal.



    Taffyboyo.

    Last edited by tuffgy; 08-18-2008 at 10:19 AM.

     
    Old 09-05-2008, 05:51 AM   #4
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    Re: don't want to go on meds

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pisces0301 View Post
    I got a callback from my doctor regarding my latest cholesterol bloodwork. Here are the results:

    Total: 236
    Trig: 285
    HDL: 63
    LDL: 116

    ...

    Since my HDL is excellent I am wondering why the Total and Trig have gone up. ...
    Your HDL is not excellent. In most cases, the higher the total cholesterol, the higher the HDL. High levels of HDL do not compensate for unhealthy levels of LDL and Total Cholesterol and high Triglycerides.

    Do you know your blood glucose levels?

    Quote:
    I rarely eat fast food, and keep my diet pretty healthy. I also work out 4-5 days a week and am in optimal shape for my age (39).
    Strenuous physical exercise will help to lower the levels of Cholesterol, Triglycerides and Blood Glucose. But...... you have unhealthy levels of Cholesterol and Triglycerides, which usually indicates an unhealthy diet.

    How many calories do you eat with each meal, and how many total calories for an average day? What are the percentage of Carbs, Proteins and Fats in your diet? Do you select carbs based on their glycemic index and load? Do you eat small servings?
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    Last edited by Machaon; 09-05-2008 at 05:52 AM.

     
    Old 09-07-2008, 09:14 AM   #5
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    Re: don't want to go on meds

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Machaon View Post
    Your HDL is not excellent. In most cases, the higher the total cholesterol, the higher the HDL. High levels of HDL do not compensate for unhealthy levels of LDL and Total Cholesterol and high Triglycerides.
    Machaon,

    Sorry, I find the above statement a reversal of the fact.

    Only occasionally and in a certain group of patients does HDL follow the direction of TC. This is far, far from being "in most cases".

    "Total Cholesterol" is the total cholesterol.
    LDL, HDL and Triglycerides are "Lipids" that carry cholesterol.

    LDL carries cholesterol from the liver to the cells of the body and HDL carries cholesterol from cells of the body to the liver.

    If the LDL goes down, your Total will also probably go down. Total cholesterol and LDL usually go up and down at the same time. This does NOT usually apply to HDL, as lifestyle has more of an influence on HDL levels as compared to LDL and TC.

    Triglycerides are usually totally independent of total cholesterol. Your triglycerides can go down and your Total may stay the same, go up or go down. It depends on what changes you make to your lifestyle.

    This is why LDL and TC are measured against HDL. TC/HDL & LDL(whether measured or calculated)/HDL.

    If TC, LDL, and HDL were to decrease then the amount of lipids to the liver would never be enough to counter the lipids from the liver. The favoured measure (ratios) could then never be used as the first choice measure for prescribing drugs.

    <removed>

    ps. By the way Pisces, your HDL reading IS excellent.

    Taffyboyo.

    Last edited by mod-anon; 09-07-2008 at 10:27 AM. Reason: tsk tsk

     
    Old 09-07-2008, 12:03 PM   #6
    Machaon
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    Re: don't want to go on meds

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by taffyboyo View Post
    Machaon,

    Sorry, I find the above statement a reversal of the fact.

    ...

    If the LDL goes down, your Total will also probably go down. Total cholesterol and LDL usually go up and down at the same time. This does NOT usually apply to HDL, ...
    Thanks for pointing out my mistake! I stand corrected about saying "In most cases, the higher the total cholesterol, the higher the HDL. High levels of HDL do not compensate for unhealthy levels of LDL and Total Cholesterol and high Triglycerides.." I meant to say, "In most cases, the higher the total cholesterol, the more meaningless the HDL. High levels of HDL do not compensate for unhealthy levels of LDL and Total Cholesterol and high Triglycerides. "

    Pisces's Triglycerides were at 285. Healthy readings are under 150.

    Pisces's LDL was at 116. Healthy readings are under 100.

    Pisces's Total Cholesterol is 236. Healthy readings are under 200.

    Quote:
    ps. By the way Pisces, your HDL reading IS excellent.
    Sorry, I find the above statement a reversal of the fact. The HDL reading is meaningless. Who cares about the HDL reading, if the other readings are unhealthy? Pisces's focus should be on the unhealthy numbers, especially the Triglycerides.
    __________________
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    Old 09-07-2008, 01:32 PM   #7
    tuffgy
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    Re: don't want to go on meds

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Machaon View Post

    Pisces's Triglycerides were at 285. Healthy readings are under 150.

    Pisces's LDL was at 116. Healthy readings are under 100.

    Pisces's Total Cholesterol is 236. Healthy readings are under 200.

    Sorry, I find the above statement a reversal of the fact. The HDL reading is meaningless. Who cares about the HDL reading, if the other readings are unhealthy? Pisces's focus should be on the unhealthy numbers, especially the Triglycerides.
    The way of thinking over here in Europe has changed somewhat from single figure readings of LDL and TC. The figures quoted above except for the Trig's are used as 'target' figures, not healthy figures, but only by the 'old' brigade of doctor's. The 'trig's' target figures are not referred too unless the patient has a high CVD risk or is obviously obese. (target is 200 mg/dl). A little bit 'dotty', as the saying goes why a 25% difference between here and over there.

    The figures used for the onset of the prescription of cholesterol reducing drugs now depend on the level of TC divided by the 'good' lipids, HDL. ALSO, the 'bad' lipids, LDL, once again divided by HDL.

    Basically, the ratio method determines if there is a enough 'good' to flush the 'bad' to get rid of the 'ugly'.

    Therefore, the high density lipid reading is paramount today.

    The target ratios now being used overrule the single figures of LDL and TC.
    Ratios used:
    TC/HDL=4.5 (target) (5.0 for onset of statins with no other CVD risk/s.)

    LDL/HDL= CVD risk.
    Low Risk: 3.3 - 4.4
    Average Risk: 4.4 - 7.1
    Moderate Risk: 7.1 - 11.0
    High Risk: 11.0

    The doctor should use the two ratio figures, and not as in the old days, just the Total cholesterol figure.

    Scenario:
    Patients Total Cholesterol reading is 5.0mmol/L (193.0mg/dl) THIS BEING THE IDEAL TARGET.......OR IS IT???

    If the HDL reading is low, say at 0.5mmol/L (19.3 mg/dl) this would give a ratio of 10.0 (5.0/0.5) - Statins required, if the patients heart is still beating with this scenario high ratio.
    However, if the HDL reading is 2.0mmol/L (77.2 mg/dl) this would give a ratio of 2.5 (5.0/2.0) - Statins definitely not required.

    Now, if the TC reading is 6.0 mmol/L (231.6 mg/dl) then:
    HDL of 0.5mmol/L (19.3 mg/dl) ratio would be: 12
    HDL of 2.0mmol/L (77.2 mg/dl) ratio would be: 3 ........No statins required.

    As I have already stated in a recent post, low levels of LDL have now been linked to Cancer, as well as heart disease. If a doctor aims for the target ratio figures, he has a more accurate indication as to the balance of patient's overall cholesterol network.

    Taffyboyo.

    Last edited by tuffgy; 09-07-2008 at 01:51 PM.

     
    Old 09-07-2008, 03:06 PM   #8
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    Re: don't want to go on meds

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by taffyboyo View Post
    The way of thinking over here in Europe has changed somewhat from single figure readings of LDL and TC.
    It pleases me that Europe agrees with my view.

    Pisces's single figure reading of 63 for HDL is meaningless when you take into account his Total Cholesterol of 236 and his Triglycerides reading of 285, AND that his mother was just diagnosed as diabetic.

    Do I think that Pisces has a serious problem, at this time. Probably not, unless he is experiencing problematic symptoms of Metabolic Syndrome or Insulin Resistance or Pre-Diabetes.

    If you want to continue to congratulate Pisces for his HDL reading of 63, be my guest. He might appreciate your input. My suggestion to Pisces would be to eat more balanced, lower calorie, smaller meals. He already is working out and says that he is in good shape. So........ if his Triglycerides are too high, and his total Cholesterol is up a little, AND he wants to have healthy Triglycerides levels (according to the good old US of A) and be healthier, the best avenue for Pisces would be through healthy improvements to his diet.

    Unless..... if he ate, and did not fast prior to his cholesterol/triglycerides test, then it totally changes the interpretation of his test results because the readings would naturally be higher after eating.
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    Last edited by Machaon; 09-08-2008 at 02:33 AM.

     
    Old 11-01-2008, 04:38 PM   #9
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    Thumbs up Re: don't want to go on meds

    Thanks to you all for responding, I really appreciate it. After a lot of deliberating i ended up going on the Tricor. I have been on it for a month and a half now and these were my latest readings:

    Total: 229
    Trig: 119
    HDL: 77
    LDL: 129

    Its a great improvement in Triglycerides and my HDL also went up. The LDL and Total are up slightly though but maybe if I remember to fast next time they will be lower too.

    I also started taking GNC triple strength fish oil tablets so that may be helping. When I told my doc that he wrote me a prescription for Levaza and said it was a better form of fish oil. Have any of you tried that? I'm hoping to get everything under control then slowly get off the meds. Thanks for all your input.

     
    Old 02-15-2011, 11:48 AM   #10
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    Re: don't want to go on meds

    Thanks pal.

     
    Old 02-15-2011, 11:51 AM   #11
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    Re: don't want to go on meds

    Thanks Alot.

     
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