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Cholesterol and eggs, your thoughts?


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Old 03-09-2002, 09:34 PM   #1
Crzyakta
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Cholesterol and eggs, your thoughts?

Do you think eating raw (uncooked, unboiled etc..) egg yolks (at 215mg of cholesterol per yolk, from organic/free roaming hens, not low quality antibiotic injected force fed hens) is good or bad for LDL/HDL ratios? Keep in mind, this isnt LDL oxidized, as it is raw and uncooked, thoughts?

BTW Eggs have a good amount of Letchin, can anyone make connections? Would eating 7-8 yolks a day be considered good, ok, or bad in repect to cholesterol?

 
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Old 03-09-2002, 09:38 PM   #2
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Re: Cholesterol and eggs, your thoughts?

The cholesterol you eat has little effect on the choleserol in your bloodstream since the bulk of your serum cholesterol is produced in your liver. I eat about 2 dozen eggs per week (some raw, some cooked) and have an excellent lipid profile.

Alan

 
Old 03-09-2002, 09:53 PM   #3
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Re: Cholesterol and eggs, your thoughts?

Hi Crzyakta
According to the NIH (National Institute of Health) they recommend limiting your daily dietary cholesterol to under 200mg a day.
<A HREF="http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/public/heart/chol/wyntk.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/public/heart/chol/wyntk.htm</A> &lt;here are some of their other recommendations.

 
Old 03-10-2002, 07:12 AM   #4
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Re: Cholesterol and eggs, your thoughts?

I added eggs to my diet (about 4/week) and noticed little change in bloodtests. My HDLS were actually higher!

 
Old 03-10-2002, 03:43 PM   #5
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Re: Cholesterol and eggs, your thoughts?

arkie, th liver produces like what, 2g of cholesterol a day, right? And I eat 8 raw (large organic) egg yolks a day, each having 215mg, thats 1720mg a day, almost as much as my liver produces, so shouldnt that have an impact?

Also, I read some of your older posts, what foods would you recommend to keep my cholesterol LDL's and VLDL`s low? I am vegetarian, should I avoid all carbs? That means no fruits etc? I eat organic banana's, oranges, dates, and red grapes everyday, in place of meals, and follow that up with clean fat from raw unroasted still-in-shell nuts, followed by egg yolks. But in an old post of yours, you said fruits were bad? Then what can I eat for energy?<p>[This message has been edited by Crzyakta (edited 03-10-2002).]

 
Old 03-10-2002, 09:13 PM   #6
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Re: Cholesterol and eggs, your thoughts?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Crzyakta:
<B>arkie, th liver produces like what, 2g of cholesterol a day, right? And I eat 8 raw (large organic) egg yolks a day, each having 215mg, thats 1720mg a day, almost as much as my liver produces, so shouldnt that have an impact?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your liver only produces that much if your body needs it. If you are eating plenty of cholesterol, then your liver will back off on its production of cholesterol. Contrary to all of the anti-cholesterol hype, cholesterol is a vital substance in your body used by every cell. It is also the building block for all of the sex hormones as well as vitamin D (which is actually more like a hormone than a vitamin). Anyway, cholesterol serves a vital purpose and your liver regulates how much is circulating around. If you don't eat enough, then your liver makes more as needed. If you eat plenty, then your liver makes less unless it is getting signals that it needs to make more for arterial damage control. And that signal is a high serum insulin level.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Also, I read some of your older posts, what foods would you recommend to keep my cholesterol LDL's and VLDL`s low? I am vegetarian, should I avoid all carbs? That means no fruits etc? I eat organic banana's, oranges, dates, and red grapes everyday, in place of meals, and follow that up with clean fat from raw unroasted still-in-shell nuts, followed by egg yolks. But in an old post of yours, you said fruits were bad? Then what can I eat for energy?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wouldn't worry that much about your total cholesterol or LDL or VLDL levels. These aren't very good at predicting heart disease anyway. What is important is to keep your HDL up and your triglyceride level down. A triglyceride/HDL ratio of 2.0 or less is optimum.

The sugar found in fruit is fructose which is known to elevate triglycerides.

There are different types of vegetarians. If you can eat eggs (which it looks like you can), and dairy, and fish, then these foods along with generous portions of non-starchy vegetables and lower sugar fruits and nuts should form the basis of your diet. Fish is an excellent source of protein and the essential fatty acid Omega 3. Try to limit your intake of sugars, grains (especially the highly processed varity), and other high starch foods like potatoes. Lower sugar fruits are most types of berries like strawberries, blackberries, raspberries, blueberries, etc. Avacados are a low sugar fruit that are also high in monounsaturated fat.

Dietary fat is an excellent source of energy. If you eat dairy, things like cottage cheese and yogurt (the plain kind made from whole milk, not that zero fat stuff) provide ample amounts of protein and fat and little carbohydrate (primarily from milk sugar - lactose).

You really should limit or avoid highly processed seed oils (corn oil, soybean oil, etc.) and especially partially hydrogenated vegetable oil. The more that is learned about these, the stronger they become linked to heart disease.

Are you just eating the egg yolks? If so, why? Most of the protein is in the white, about 3.5 grams vs. 2.5 in the yolk. Don't get me wrong, egg yolks are good, but so is the white.

Just curious, but what is your cholesterol and triglyceride levels? Age? How long have you been a vegetarian?

Alan

 
Old 03-11-2002, 09:06 AM   #7
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Re: Cholesterol and eggs, your thoughts?

Eggs also have a lot of fat. One egg contains 6-8 grams of fat, so one egg is ok, but 7 is too much. That would be 42-56 grams of fat per day! Too much of a good thing can have adverse affects. You also have to check into your medical family history to see how your family handles fat and cholesterol.

If you are looking for energy, how about potassium which is in orange juice and bananas or carbs which are the body's main source of engery, but you have to burn them off just like you have to burn off fat. Excess fat is converted to body fat.

Oh, sorry...I made an assumption. Are you trying to build muscules by downing all those eggs? I hope this helps.

------------------
Magpie<p>[This message has been edited by moderator3 (edited 03-18-2002).]

 
Old 03-11-2002, 04:17 PM   #8
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Re: Cholesterol and eggs, your thoughts?

Here's a pretty good answer. By the way excess carbohydrates are turned into body fat. so many people dont' realize the difference between dietary fat anf body fat or fats in general, they are all not the same.
Dietary Saturated Fat and Cholesterol

Foods containing trans fat sell because the American public is afraid of the alternative: Saturated fats found in tallow, lard, butter, palm oil and coconut oil - fats traditionally used for frying and baking. Yet the scientific literature delineates a number of vital roles for dietary saturated fats: they enhance the immune system,54 are necessary for healthy bones,55 provide energy and structural integrity to the cells,56 protect the liver,57 and enhance the body's use of essential fatty acids.58 Stearic acid, found in beef tallow and butter, has cholesterol-lowering properties and is a preferred food for the heart.59 As saturated fats are stable, they do not become rancid easily, they do not call upon the body's reserves of antioxidants, they do not initiate cancer, and they do not irritate the artery walls. Your body (liver)makes saturated fats, and your body makes cholesterol - about 2,000 mg per day. In general, cholesterol that the average American absorbs from food amounts to about 100 mg per day.
So, in theory, even reducing animal foods to zero will result in only a five per cent decrease in the total amount of cholesterol available to the blood and tissues. In practice, such a diet is likely to deprive the body of the substrates it needs to manufacture enough of this vital substance. Cholesterol, like saturated fats, stands unfairly accused. It acts as a precursor to vital corticosteroids (hormones that help us deal with stress and protect the body against heart disease and cancer) and to the sex hormones like androgen, testosterone, oestrogen and progesterone. It is a precursor to vitamin D, a very important fat-soluble vitamin needed for healthy bones and nervous system, proper growth, mineral metabolism, muscle tone, insulin production, reproduction and immune system function. And it is the precursor to bile salts which are vital for digestion and assimilation of fats in the diet. Recent research shows that cholesterol acts as an antioxidant.60
This is the likely explanation for the fact that cholesterol levels go up with age. As an antioxidant, cholesterol protects us against free-radical damage that leads to heart disease and cancer. Cholesterol is the body's repair substance, manufactured in large amounts when the arteries are irritated or weak. Blaming heart disease on high serum cholesterol levels is like blaming firemen, who have come to put out a fire, for starting the blaze. Cholesterol is needed for proper function of serotonin receptors in the brain.61 Serotonin is the body's natural 'feel-good' chemical. This explains why low cholesterol levels have been linked to aggressive and violent behaviour, depression and suicidal tendencies.
Mother's milk is particularly rich in cholesterol and contains a special enzyme that helps the baby utilise this nutrient. Babies and children need cholesterol-rich foods throughout their growing years to ensure proper development of the brain and nervous system. Dietary cholesterol plays an important role in maintaining the health of the intestinal wall,62 which is why low-cholesterol vegetarian diets can lead to leaky gut syndrome and other intestinal disorders. Animal foods containing saturated fat and cholesterol provide vital nutrients necessary for growth, energy and protection from degenerative disease. Like sex, animal fats are necessary for reproduction. Humans are drawn to both by powerful instincts. Suppression of natural appetites leads to weird nocturnal habits, fantasies, fetishes, bingeing and splurging. Animal fats are nutritious and satisfying and they taste good. "Whatever is the cause of heart disease," said the eminent biochemist Michael Gurr in a recent article, "it is not primarily the consumption of saturated fats."63 And yet the high priests of the lipid hypothesis continue to lay their curse on the fairest of culinary pleasures: butter and Béarnaise, whipped cream, soufflés and omelettes, full-bodied cheeses, juicy steaks and pork sausages.

 
Old 03-11-2002, 07:01 PM   #9
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Re: Cholesterol and eggs, your thoughts?

Hey arkie, thanks for the tips, here is some answers for those questions:

I am 18 years old
6'3" moderately underweight at 158lbs
Male, 4% body fat with current diet at 8months on diet
been a vegetarian since I was 4 (religios reasons)
I eat eggs and dairy, but have cut dairy out because the parturized and hormone/antibiotic fed dairy isnt somethin i want to consume (though until last summer, I was a milk and dairy fiend), now I take NO dairy in whatsoever (isnt the fat and cholesterol in it oxidized do to pasturization?)
Sorry cant eat fish (though I would REALLY love to)
Eggs, organic or free range (non force fed) are okay
I only eat yolks, for 2 reasons, 1 the whites taste nasty raw, and 2 they have enzyme inhibitors in them that stop absorbtion of certain vitamins
I dont consume any grain or bread products, and 100% dont go near hydrogenated oils (which is in about all bread refined grain products...)

I try my best to avoid all oxidized oils, I dont consume any cooked foods (dont even take in extra virgin olive oil, because that usually goes rancid too...)

Dairy gives me BAD acne (cheese esp), before I went on accutane a almost 2 years ago, I had high cholesterol (perhaps cause of milk?) I was on thin ice when taking accutane, because (even though most derms and people dont know this), the Vitamin A derivative in accutane works by closing off the pores in the skin (it has nothing to do with cholesterol synthesis or anything that may actually help..), and by doing so, sebum, cholesterol and its esters no longer get released onto the skin, and instead stay in the blood stream elevating serum levels...for some its permanant because it forever destroys the sebum ducts (pores) so they can no longer release the amount of sebum they used to...leaving you with dry (though no longer acne infected) skin...

Anyway, I havent gotten my blood work in a while, I would believe, my cholesterol is now lower (well LDLs, why dont they matter though? cause blood tests arent accurate?) I heard letchin in eggs disables the cholesterol in them, is that true? then why ever worry about it (especially wen eaten raw, and the letchin is kept in tact)?

I cant eat avocados, as they break me out, i think cause the high fat content, and the fact that it gets oxidized quickly...

I am desparate to keep cholesterol low (which always helps in my acne), and eat better without losing weight...

What are some other low sugar fruits? Are red grapes ok? Shouldnt their antioxidants help reduce any bad effects of the dextrose? I also eat oranges, and dates (which are very high in the glycemic index, but give me much needed energy) Also ripe bananas, I am allergic to strawberries, kiwi, dark cherries, unboiled carrots, pears, and plums, so they are all out

Any tips? Is sour cream ok, and does it have alot of oxidized cholesterol/fat?

Thanks!

 
Old 03-15-2002, 01:50 AM   #10
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Re: Cholesterol and eggs, your thoughts?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Crzyakta:
<B>I only eat yolks, for 2 reasons, 1 the whites taste nasty raw, and 2 they have enzyme inhibitors in them that stop absorbtion of certain vitamins.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why not eat the whites cooked? Like in boiled eggs or fried eggs. As long as the yolk isn't broken, little to no oxygen can attack it and oxidize the cholesterol (the white contains virtually no fat or cholesterol to oxidize). I eat fried eggs cooked in unrefined coconut oil quite often. And cooking the eggs deactivates the enzyme inhibitors.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I dont consume any cooked foods (dont even take in extra virgin olive oil, because that usually goes rancid too...)</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Any particular reason why you don't eat any cooked foods? The more unsaturated an oil is, the more likely it will go rancid. Extra virgin olive oil isn't one that readily goes rancid (high in monounsaturated fat), particularly if it is in a dark bottle, kept in a cool place, and not used in high heat cooking applications. Unrefined coconut oil is a better choice for cooking since it is approximately 92% saturated fat and can last for long periods of time exposed to air and not become rancid.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Anyway, I havent gotten my blood work in a while, I would believe, my cholesterol is now lower (well LDLs, why dont they matter though? cause blood tests arent accurate?)</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LDL is rarely if ever measured during blood tests. It is most often calculated from the following: LDL = Total Cholesterol - HDL - triglycerides/5. Since it isn't actually measured, there is no way of knowing from the LDL number whether you have predominately LDL pattern B (characterized by small dense particles that are easily oxidized and linked to atherosclerosis) or pattern A (characterized by light fluffy particles that are not easily oxidized and are nuetral with respect to atherosclerosis). There is one way to tell though if you have predominately LDL pattern B or A and that is via your triglyceride number. High triglycerides are indicative of predominately LDL pattern B, the bad stuff. Low triglyceride levels are indicative of predominately LDL pattern A, the neutral stuff. That is why your LDL number on your lab report doesn't mean much.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>What are some other low sugar fruits? Are red grapes ok? Shouldnt their antioxidants help reduce any bad effects of the dextrose? I also eat oranges, and dates (which are very high in the glycemic index, but give me much needed energy) Also ripe bananas, I am allergic to strawberries, kiwi, dark cherries, unboiled carrots, pears, and plums, so they are all out.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There aren't many low sugar fruits to choose from. Melons are moderate with respect to sugar levels. All of those fruits you listed are high in fructose. Fructose has been shown to significantly raise triglyceride levels, particularly in men. Fruit should be eaten infrequently as a treat, no more than one serving per day in my opinion.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Any tips?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm out of suggestions if you aren't interested in eating meat, poultry, or fish. What about unpasturized milk products like goats milk? I live in the country and there are several farms here where you can buy raw goats milk which isn't subjected to the high heat of pasturization. You might check with a local health foods store or farm feed supply store for availability of similar products in your area.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Is sour cream ok, and does it have alot of oxidized cholesterol/fat?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Like all commercial dairy products, sour cream is made from pasturized dairy, so it is susceptible to cholesterol oxidation. The fat in dairy products is primarily saturated which isn't subject to oxidation (saturated fat is stable with all of its bonds filled and is not easily attacked by oxygen).

Not sure if any of that helps, but with your very limited diet, there aren't many options.

Alan

 
Old 03-15-2002, 08:10 AM   #11
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Re: Cholesterol and eggs, your thoughts?

Hey Arkie, thanks for the help

The reason I dont eat the whites cooked is that the protein in them is denatured if cooked, causing oxidation and free radical damage when it is within my body.

I have bought and tried virgin raw coconut oil (the kind that hardens when its cold), it tasted good and seemed never to oxidize, but when was used to cook with, totally eliminated the taste of any herbs or spices, and replaced it with a coconutty (real word?) taste <IMG SRC="http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/frown.gif"> Though I like coconut, I dont want everything tasting like it

Also EV Olive oil, even in the USA, their specs dont have to meet a certain criteria (as it does in Italy), they can say its EV, but it may not be at all, and even when i buy the dark glass bottle, it goes rancid after only about 5-6 days... I can taste it, it stings the back of my throat pretty bad, and I would breakout bad withing a few days of consuming it...So I had to take that out, Oldguy said to add BHT (fat soluble sythetic antioxidant) to the EV olive oil bottle, I may try that, any thoughts on that? Above all I want to keep all oxidated foods out of my body (cause there is enough going on inside due to my horomones), and keep free radical damage to a minimum, while maintaining a cholesterol ration (more HDL's and lower tri levels)

Thanks!

 
Old 03-17-2002, 09:11 PM   #12
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Re: Cholesterol and eggs, your thoughts?

FYI, here is an interesting study/report titled "Normal Plasma Cholesterol In An 88-Year-Old Man Who Eats 25 Eggs A Day" that was published in the New England Journal of Medicine, March 28, 1991.
<A HREF="http://www.sci.sdsu.edu/classes/biology/bio575/4-Kern.pdf" TARGET=_blank>http://www.sci.sdsu.edu/classes/biology/bio575/4-Kern.pdf</A>

In a nutshell, this 88 year old guy was eating 20-30 soft boiled eggs per day on top of his normal food intake, had been doing this for 15 or more years, had normal cholesterol levels (150-200 mg/dl), and did not exhibit signs of atherosclerosis. The study concluded that his body adapted to the high cholesterol intake by absorbing less of the cholesterol than controls on a lower cholesterol intake, his body synthesized more bile acids (made from cholesterol), and his body (liver primarily) sythesized less cholesterol.

This shows that the human body has quite efficient coping mechanisms when it is dealing with whole natural foods.

Alan
<p>[This message has been edited by arkie6 (edited 03-17-2002).]

 
Old 03-17-2002, 10:30 PM   #13
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Re: Cholesterol and eggs, your thoughts?

Crzyakta - I noticed your being a raw fooder. I went to see Dr. Douglas Graham last week, a noted 22 year raw fooder and advisor who has also worked with many famous athletes. You may wish to do a search on him (there are a couple other Dr. Grahams who have websites). He is very knowledgalbe about physiology and raw foods, and has seen many with hyperlipidemia (genetic high cholesterol) healed on raw food.

I highly suggest his books "Nutrition and Athletic Performance" and "Grain Damage". There is also a recipe book avaible for his High Energy diet.

Personally I wouldn't recommend eating anything with cholesterol in it, whether or not you have a genetic cholesterol problem. If you have a genetic problem, your liver will not 'stop' producing cholesterol - it will just make matters worse. If you eat egg yolks or coconut fat you are just taking in a bunch of empty nutrition in the form of fat. His diet comprises of 70-80% carbs in the form of fruits, 10% proteins in the form of veggies and 10% fats in the form of nuts. Eat a lot of fruit until you are full.

 
Old 03-19-2002, 09:45 AM   #14
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Re: Cholesterol and eggs, your thoughts?

hey arkie and curly, i think I might have the cholesterol problem, I am going to ask my doc if he can okay a blood work for me today, see how that goes...is their any way to combat this disease? just avoiding cholesterol, thats it?

Also doesnt lecthin in the eggs, help with its high amount of cholesterol?<p>[This message has been edited by Crzyakta (edited 03-19-2002).]

 
Old 03-19-2002, 12:26 PM   #15
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Re: Cholesterol and eggs, your thoughts?

Let us know what your results are.

Since our livers manufacture cholesterol on their own, our bodies don't need any more from outside sources. We don't know if the 88 year old man had a genetic disposition or not. For those of us with genetic cholesterol problems, avoiding cholesterol and sat fats is necessary. If you are genetically predisposed to high choleseterol, your receptors in the liver are not working like they should and won't stop making choleseterol if you take in more.

Cholesterol production is different in each of us, which is why some people seem to react differently when taking in cholesterol and saturated fat. You just have to figure out what works best for you.

I've also read that anything heated becomes a denatured protein and is not usable by the body. This was in Dr. Graham's book, "Nutrition and Athletic Performance"... from page 47:

"Most people have low protein needs. This is borne out by the fact that protein is only usable when the amino acid chains are intact, as found in living tissue. Heat deranges the amino acid arrays, causing the protein to become 'denatured' and no longer viable. When people consume heated foods, the proteins within them are worse than of no use to the body, they are recognized as toxins to be eliminated. The fact that white blood cells, the body's janitor's, often double or triple in number after the consumption of heated proteins justify this concept."

 
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