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    Old 06-12-2006, 11:35 AM   #1
    GEORGEP
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    To Lenin---DIOVAN

    I am directing this question to you because you are very informative. I have been taking 320MG DIOVAN daily now for about one year. I started off at 160 MG but my doctor decided to increase the dosage to the maximum. When I go to the doctor I am very anxious and my blood pressure is always higher than at home. My heart rate increases and I can feel it racing when they measure my blood pressure. My last visit the nurse checked it and it was 144/82. The doctor checked it again and this time it was 128/80. He put the stethoscope on my upper back and my heart was racing. He said he would prescribe another medication to ease my anxiety. I asked him what it was and he said ANTENOL a beta blocker 25MG DOSE. I told my pharmasist that once I was out of the doctors office I felt relaxed and I did not feel that I needed it and she told me not to even bother getting it filled. I have also gained about 15 pounds since starting the Diovan almost three years ago. I asked the doctor if this drug would cause weight gain and he said no and I that I need to watch my portion sizes which I don't but I eat a healthy diet that is low in saturated fat. I eat alot of fruit, vegetables, little meat and no sweets. I also exercise every day and I mean vigourous exercise. I just don't understand the weight gain and I refuse to start taking Beta blockers to slow my heart rate down. I have a resting pulse rate of 52 and sometimes lower .. I just need your feedback??

     
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    Old 06-12-2006, 06:06 PM   #2
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    Re: To Lenin---DIOVAN

    I have a 5x refillable for Enalapril, but during the second Rx I started coughing so much that I lost my voice for 3 days. Reading about Diovan as the alternative to ACE inhibitors and for Diabetics, I asked dr. and he called in a prescription for 40 mgs to start but it was AFTER I got the pills that my friend led me to sites and sent articles that Diovan could cause hair loss and weight gain, so the pills are still sitting in my drawer for a month, while I instead first went down to half an Enalapril per day but that didn't help my BP so I added another 1/4th and it's better and STILL without the cough so far, but the tiredness is still there, but since I don't go OUT to work, I can deal with that, and that's where I stand right now.... 3/4's Enalapril per day, and not getting the FULL impact of a BP medication so I'm very disturbed. These Diovans are still in my draw unopened and although I'm so tempted to try them, I'm scared to death of their affecting my hair and weight, which CANNOT happen under any circumstances! [At first my original Dr. Rx'd a Beta Blocker, but after reading about that, I saw that ACE was the top BP med for diabetics, so my pharmacist called to change the rx and she did, but to a Calcium Blocker, so I wouldn't accept that either, so he called Dr. back again and got Enalapril [one of the ACE's, and I didn't care which one so that was fine]. Five grams was affective, but the cough got me during second bottle, and now I don't know what to do because although 3/4th's lowers my pressure, a larger dose [the whole 5 mgs] would be more effective but I'll cough myself to death again. Many on a review board complain of the hair and weight problem with Diovan so I'm stuck in the middle, having gotten my 3rd refill of Enalapril. Just don't know what else to do. After the first Rx of Enalapril and going back to the dr., my pressure was a perfect 120/73 even WITH the ''white coat anxiety'' at the dr's so a whole pill worked great but now I'm with only 3/4's and not ALWAYS great. Also, I'm wondering how these work, they're not time released and only one per day so if lowering the dosage, is it that it doesn't even GET to the total lowering effect, or if it gets there, does it not STAY low as LONG. Does it effect the ENDURANCE of keeping it down, or just totally GETTING it down? Anyone know? I wouldn't take any medication you're uncomfortable with, George, Doctors aren't Gods and you know your body best.... follow your instincts and your Dr. should know that of course anxiety is escalated during visits [ergo ''white coat syndrome''].

     
    Old 06-12-2006, 06:54 PM   #3
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    Re: To Lenin---DIOVAN

    I am also on diovan. 80mg in the am with hct. I take another 80 mg at night plain. In addition I take 25 grams metoprolol (beta blocker) morning and night. My pressure has slowly been going up even though the pills were keeping it down until after Christmas. I have added another 1/2 pill (beta blocker) in the AM and the pressure is still up. Not the diastolic, its fine at 70 but the systolic is anywhere from the high 150's to the 170's and even the 180's at times. I have gained about 12 pounds since christmas. Do you think that this alone could have caused the rise? I am trying hard to lose the weight, but so far I can't.
    I don't think I can take more beta blocker as my heart rate is often in the 50's or 60's.
    I had triple bypass last summer and do have diabetes also. The doctor wants me on the diovan because he says it helps the kidneys, but even he admits it doesn't help BP much.
    I was also taking norvasc which helped but made my feet swell.
    I am wondering why these drugs seem to work in the beginning and then the pressure goes up after awhile. I also wonder what else the cardio could put me on.
    Maybe the weight gain has caused the rise in pressure? Is the diovan responsible even though I am only taking a total of 160 mg a day? I don't think the diovan does anything to help my BP/ Frankly I am worried about the rise in pressure. I'm getting headaches.
    I am going to the doctor soon, but wonder which way I should go with the meds.

    Last edited by Cher2005; 06-12-2006 at 07:01 PM.

     
    Old 06-12-2006, 07:20 PM   #4
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    Re: To Lenin---DIOVAN

    If you're addressing this to me, I wish I could help but am totally new to HBP, only 3 months, but am an old hand to Diabetes for the past almost 3 years of knowing I have it [and controlling it with only foods], but having a mother who had it all my life, so I'm not up on ANY meds and only know what my experienced friend tells me [she has all these ailments for years and has also been guiding me along with many board sites]. I will say, that yours is the first i've read of Diovan NOT lowering BP, I'm very surprised to read that. Most say that it DOES and they're finally ALSO rid of side effects from the ACE's, but the swelling and other things do continue, or effects other than ACE's but more tolerable than the coughing. Wish I could help more.... looking for some understanding myself lol I really HATE meds and trying to find how to control BP without them as I'm determined to control my sugar also with only foods.

     
    Old 06-13-2006, 06:21 AM   #5
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    Re: To Lenin---DIOVAN

    George,

    Atenolol will definitely cause weight gain unless you apply special effort to avoid it by eating less. It is silly to take it just because your heart rate went high in the doctor's office...I'm with your pharmacist. Medicating a 52 BPM rate with a beta-blocker can be actually quite dangerous.

    Weight gain in general: I feel that any drug that lowers blood pressure will cause weight gain because keeping pressure up takes a great deal of energy (calories.) The heart uses a great deal of the BMR calories and making it's work easier will allow the unused calories to be deposited in our love handles.

    Mamzelle,
    All I can say is that the cough is an unfortunate shame. It seems that you can get good control with 5 mg. and that's a very low doseage. What is your AVERAGE blood pressure over a couple weeks taking 3/4 of a pill? My guess is that if you get 127/80 with 5 mg in a doctor's office, your numbers should still be OK with the 3.75mg.

    Don't worry about the "hair falling out" with Diovan...it won't. It's REAL problem is that it won't work as well as the ACEI. I'd run a trial with the samples you have in your drawer. Being freed from the fear of coughing might be just what you are looking for. These drugs work differently for different people and the wisest course of actiion is to see for yourself.

     
    Old 06-13-2006, 07:57 AM   #6
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    Re: To Lenin---DIOVAN

    Thanks Lenin. I have to see the doctor next month and I am going to let him know that I don't want to take the atenonol because I feel I don't need it. I guess I am going to have to deal with the weight gain. I am not obese or anything and I have not gained any more weight. I am going to try to eat less and see if that makes any difference. I have not had any hair loss taking the Diovan either... The doctor said as long as my blood pressure stays below 140/90 than I should continue taking the Diovan..

     
    Old 06-13-2006, 08:37 AM   #7
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    Re: To Lenin---DIOVAN

    I'm very surprised to hear that **ALL** BP meds induce weight!! I'm shocked and horrified and never heard that before and I've studied and researched before even allowing a prescription that I chose myself [refusing beta's and calcium blockers or anything but ACE, because it's supposed to be the ''TOP for diabetics'' and not cause weight gain nor affect our natural insulin].......

    My hair has already been thinning for a long time, and I can't AFFORD and don't want a BP pill to fight with the 5000 mcg I'm taking every day to TRY to resolve it, which I'm still monitoring and keeping my fingers crossed about, [my thyroid tests were normal, but my TPO was high for antibodies indicating possible Hashi's so this involves the thyroid and probably the CAUSE for thinning hair already] nor can I endure more weight gain that I've also incurred after taking a YEAR to lose only 11 lbs, already being on low carbs for over 2 years strictly [LC not helping my hair any, but did solve my BSugar problem for a while, Now it's up because the weight came back, and MORE so it's vicious cycle]......

    I'm not a person who can take the chance of more hair loss so it's a little different than someone else innocently ''just trying Diovan'' and the manufacturer whom I've long ago called also ADMITTED and CONFIRMED that both hair loss AND weight gain definitely are possible side affects, checking with them after reading that all over the NET first, and because if I personally react to it, I'm pretty much out of luck! I can't take even the remote CHANCE of losing more hair, as most others can otherwise more easily 'risk'.......

    I'm sure people think I'm overreacting to a "possible" uncommon side effect, [which we all have to risk with all drugs because there are ALWAYS side affects with everything] but nobody understands that it's not a matter of "TRYING" it..... it could take a long time for hair to thin from it, it's not a ''testing'' situation like with coughing, swelling, pains etc. THOSE things happen immediately and are instantly reversible. The very DAY that I first went down to 1/2 Enalapril, ALL my side effects stopped cold! But hair loss is quite different as weight gain is, they are both longer term and POSSIBLY irreversible, that's the difference. If I already have the tendency and condition of thinning hair, I'm afraid Diovan might accelerate it. If it does then I'm even further behind the 8 ball than I am now about that very same condition I'm already suffering. See what I mean?.....

    There is no ""TRYING"" Diovan, since the thing I'm afraid of happens over time, I'm not assuming that big clumps of hair fall out in a WEEK!!!! lol I'm assuming it's a slow process so there's nothing to TRY that will be evident soon enough. Should I take it for 5 years till I eventually go BALD and SEE I was right and also put on another 10, 20 lbs that I won't even get OFF because I can't even get THIS weight gain OFF? But the point is...... you say that Diovan isn't even as effective as ACE's??? That was a big statement. How do you know this. I AM under the impression that ARB's are merely a substitute and 'next best thing' to Ace's because they work similarly and without the E's side effect, but didn't know they were LESS EFFECTIVE regarding BP...... can I access where you read that opinion or fact? I'd really like to read about it. Why knock myself out over Diovan anymore, if it's not even going to help my BP much! What are your sources?.....

    Oh, you asked about my numbers..... after about a month with the whole 5mg Enalapril, my bp was 120/73 in the Dr's office where it should have been MORE because of the tension but at home it was mostly in 120's too, PERFECT [although Dr. Oz often on TV says 115/73 is really perfect, and what we should shoot for]. And I take it with my three BP home wrist meters several times a day and comparing them with eachother, usually only 2 at a time unless I get a wide range between the 2, then I check on the third but that's hardly ever, they're pretty consistent with eachother.....

    With HALF the 5mg's, which I tried at first [after the bad coughing started and I lost my voice] ALL side effects immediately disappeared the first day, but didn't help my BP at all so I increased it another 1/4th and that seemed to work. So now it hits 120's occasionally, but also 130's, 140's and in evenings sometimes 160's, 170's which freak me out, but not often. That's why I wonder if all normal people's BP also fluctuate like that. Dr Oz, in one of his lectures on PBS took his pressure and it was 170 and he was surprised himself! But one can say that he was in a TV lecturing situation, certainly a situation to raise his pressure, BUT....... wouldn't he have KNOWN that and expected it? Why would he even take it in front of the world, knowing it might be high, but he WAS surprised [and embarrassed], so that showed me that ALL people have high readings occasionally. What's your take on that?......

    I'm also wondering [sorry, I know this is too long already lol, I'll paste what I wrote to someone else so a little repetition down there somewhere] I've often wondered why BP meds are only once a day and how that carries us thru the 24 hours, if not time released [maybe some ARE but I don't recall TR with BP, only Metformin for sugar, etc and I haven't seen any TR in all my reading about BP meds either, though they 'may' exist without my knowledge]. NOW i'm wondering, since on only 3/4ths, [also when I took 1/2] if THAT's why it's not **continuously** low..... and if cutting down the dose has not taken away it's degree of effectiveness, but just the DURATION of it? Maybe that's where the difference lies? OR does EVERYONE go higher at certain times of day, even normal people [i.e. Dr. OZ in his lecture being 170's to even HIS shock, with a very respectable meter, though why WOULDN'T he have expected the excitement and rise in pressure when TAPING a lecture and the tension and anxiety while working, but that's another story and not what I'm talking about right now..... that's the issue of even NORMAL people fluctuating, therefore not being concerned about their fluctuation, nor even knowing about it]........

    So anyway, I am REALLY wondering about the mere 3/4's not keeping it low ALL the time, or LESS of the time as the whole pill might have [I have to study my logged readings from when taking the entire pill, which will take a while, and is tedious]. But what's your take on that theory. In other words, have you ever read that a lower dose CAN get the pressure AS LOW....... but not for AS LONG and keep it there longer or throughout the whole 24 hr period. And it's NOT that a low dose can't GET it down, but that it can't KEEP it down?....... Whew..... ok, enough here to contemplate for a week lol I never INTEND to write so much, it just HAPPENS so fast lol.... apologies. You also seem so knowledgable Lenin, that it's hard NOT to suck your brain LOL

     
    Old 06-14-2006, 07:26 AM   #8
    Lenin
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    Re: To Lenin---DIOVAN

    Mamzelle,

    The side effects:
    Risk is there for ALL drugs. Most drugs even carry a risk for FATAL anaphylactoid reactions...we just cannot assume the worst. Less than 1% means that more than 99 people out of a hundred will nto suffer any particular side effect. If we DO assume the worst, then there are no drugs that we can take, NONE!

    How long do the drugs last:
    It depends on the method and speed of metabolism. It's usually stated as a half life or the number of hours a particular drug takes to eliminate half of itself from our system. Picture a curve that goes up fast and comes down over time. A smaller dose would be a parallel curve at a lower level. If there is a certain blood level that is only minimally effective, then the lower dose will reach that first. So there is both a lower effect at all times of the day with the lower dosage AND an earlier point when the lower dosage will reach the level deemed "ineffective."

    Drugs are usually made Time Release when their regular formulations dissipate in only a few hours. There seems to be something desirous in the medical community for once a day dosing. (I guess they assume all patients are too stupid to do something twice or thrice. )

    Try something:
    Since you can take 3.75 mg. of enalapril without problems, why not try the 5 mg. again. Maybe you can tolerate it now? (Personally I hate the stuff because I coughed for 6 months on it!) As soon as you get the tickly cough, stop!

    Not to scare you but just to ampliify what I mean about the ubiquitousness of side effects:
    From Merck's prescribing information for Vasotec (enalapril):
    Quote:
    Skin: Exfoliative dermatitis, toxic epidermal necrolysis, Stevens-Johnson syndrome, pemphigus, herpes zoster, erythema multiforme, urticaria, pruritus, alopecia, flushing, diaphoresis, photosensitivity.
    See what I mean!

    Last edited by Lenin; 06-14-2006 at 07:38 AM.

     
    Old 06-14-2006, 10:56 AM   #9
    Mamzelle
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    Re: To Lenin---DIOVAN

    Don't know where you're quoting 1% from, even the company themselves didn't give a percentage and didn't seem to know...... nor is it in any of their material that I saw from THEIR site which I originally scrutinized many times before even requesting Diovan, nor any other sites around the Net about this pill [even the almost 116 people complaining about both those side effects at the 'ask any patient' site, I saw AFTER I already had the vial in my house] or I certainly would still have been looking for another, perhaps another ARB I'm sure,, which I'm NOW wanting to know about. I stopped looking, and asked for Diovan not having seen ANYTHING about hair loss [or weight gain] and I would have KNOWN that Alopecia was hair loss, which would have hit me between the eyes IMMEDIATELY and I would have moved on, [though even if I HAD seen it, I don't HAVE Alopecia so might have subconsciously dismissed it.... that's a whole different disease and not just mere hair thinning] but that was never anywhere to MY knowledge and other friends, even a couple of DOCTOR friends, and family who were searching and reading for me too, so this was a surprise to ALL of us, including my Fiancée's daughter who is also a doctor, but 3000 miles away and my own brother in law who is one, but unfortunately in AZ, also too far away........

    This has been well hidden by [forgot the manufacturer's name, Merck?] and the argument I gave them after sitting here with the pills already and finding out AFTERWARDS. I HOPE they have me on TAPE about it. I'm already in a lawsuit about my mother's death and the possible connection with Celebrex, and my fiancée wants me to inquire about this too and the hidden or camouflaged facts about "IT" as well with these attorneys [I told him it's not the same thing, but WILL ask them anyway], since I'm a person who ALREADY can't lose the weight I've gained in the last two months, and instead of losing my 20 lb excess, after gaining back the 11 of that which I lost, I've also gained back another over 10 so I wouldn't be able to lose Diovon's possible weight gain EITHER..... what a pleasant thought THAT would be, and also WHY I can't keep my sugar at least in the 120's anymore probably BECAUSE of it. THAT is definitely a major issue and a HEALTH issue of a medication destroying your health, certainly for a person who CAN'T reverse it, and it affecting their glucose levels even INDIRECTLY through weight gain, which IS a major factor in Diabetes!!......

    The other many possible side effects listed for both Diovan and Enalapril [TONS of them] didn't bother me at all and wasn't afraid to take a shot, but this is too too externally damaging, weight gain AND hair loss. One could eventually join a CIRCUS with those, if too late to reverse, and from a mere PILL? Ohhhhhhh no, ain't buyin' lol Bad enough about the INTERNAL damage meds cause, that's quite enough for ME!.......

    Now i'm just coughing a LITTLE, but it stops after a few times so I can live with it, and is not a DEEP gut wrenching cough which wouldn't stop, and even woke me up, like it was with 5 mgs. No, I'm not having great results with the 3/4's, but lower BP than with the half. It's still fluctuating from high to low and I MUST find a better medication where I can at least use the entire full dose even if it's the minimum. I'm waiting to see if it gets worse, because the first time it crept up on me and wasn't in the first month, so it might even WITH 3/4's, since apparently it takes a while. I thought conditions were supposed to improve as the body adjusts to it, but I see with these it's the opposite. The first week of diarrhea DID subside after the first week, and no coughing either [for a whole month] so I thought I had escaped what I'd expected....

    I had other things to move on to, like my sugar ['without' meds so far, but is not as low as it used to be], cholesterol, and the MOST complicated and what could take YEARS to resolve; Thyroid/Hashi's, the worst, experimentation-wise, ...... and THOUGHT I had at least ONE problem solved, but now I'm starting from SCRATCH again. So upset, though this did immediately calm me when first taking it. I have books here that I've received about lowering BP WITHOUT meds but don't have any faith in that. even being a staunch believer in alternative medicine and hating the synthetic preparations......

    BP isn't as controllable as it's been for me with glucose, and even that's not what it used to be and probably all this has contributed to it [but I don't agree that ALL BP meds raise sugar and cause weight gain..... not sure if you said BOTH, but I know you said weight gain and that isn't really true about ALL of them, I've had confirmed by many both taking them AND also by professionals]. It's just a TERRIBLE situation and that's WHY I didn't want to get caught in the revolving door of medications because I believe they are a heavy contributor to ultimately killing us, if not TOTALLY by themselves, I've seen too much, even in my own family.....

    I KNOW there is risk with everything, [don't know what anaphylactoid is, I've never been sick a day in my life, now hit with all the usuals when we are getting 'on', so I'm not up on all the meds out there] but not expecting hair loss or weight gain. As I said, the rest I could handle and expected all the others before even Taking Enalapril or ANY BP med, which my Doctor briefed me on even before I left the office or knew I'd have to switch from what she had first prescribed, after getting home and heavily researching them after an immediate call to the pharmacist about what it is and even the name, which I couldn't decipher, then requesting another then another till I got my ACE! I'm a very determined lady till I get what I want and don't just blindly believe even doctors, unless I find one that I'm at least considerably sure I can trust which I'm still on the prowl for and haven't yet......

    Yes, I WAS playing with the idea of upping to the whole pill, as you say.... but just a little gun-shy now. Still considering that for over a week already, but as I said above, want to give this [3/4] more of a chance to see if the cough DOES exacerbate any more with even the 3.75... If not, then I will increase it. I've just filled my 3rd refill this week to experiment further with it [the "E"], but now looking for another ARB, but as ALL ACE's producing coughs, I'm sure all ARB's have the same side affects as eachother as well, so I'm really lost,and I can't even move on with everything ELSE I'm trying to get resolved in my life, even ASIDE from medically too. My BP is only a spit in the ocean......

    I heavily 'repeat', that I CANNOT take even a 1% or .01% risk of hair loss and weight gain which might not be reversable for ME, personally, and which was the main point in my first post above, and are side effects unlike the others....which are long term and undetectable immediately, unlike the coughing and fatigue which DID disappear right away the same day when lowering the Enalapril to half at first. They are very different and different NATURED side affects and COULD be permanent, for ME at least with my already related / existing conditions....

    In 2006 and having been to the MOON already several times [and MARS] in the 60's and since.... you'd THINK all magic bullets for diseases, or just plain ailments and disorders...... would have been the simplest by NOW! Killer CANCER and others being the first, and CERTAINLY diabetes and even MORE certainly...... high blood pressure [without medication SIDE EFFECTS] which MOST of the world winds up with! High BP is more prevalent than ANYTHING, and Diabetes is also growing to an epidemic! Personally, I don't believe there's really no cure yet, and I'm not alone in that theory along with MANY well known and respected professionals and experts all over the WORLD, [especially Europe] not only here in America, but I won't even TOUCH on that......

    So now the remaining question is..... are there any OTHER ARB's miraculously devoid of these two side effects? Merck ONLY makes Diovan, they told me long ago when I was calling them, [and the Diovan HCT '?'....forgot the initials, with the diuretic mixed in] so maybe ANOTHER manufacturer of ARB's doesn't have those 2 additional SAME effects? Just a theory.

    BTW..... don't even KNOW what all these others are [below], aside from Alopecia! Are they things that aren't visibly and externally detectable, and could be going on INTERNALLY without our knowing it?.....

    ""Skin: Exfoliative dermatitis, toxic epidermal necrolysis, Stevens-Johnson syndrome, pemphigus, herpes zoster, erythema multiforme, urticaria, pruritus, alopecia, flushing, diaphoresis, photosensitivity"".

    Last edited by Mamzelle; 06-14-2006 at 12:22 PM.

     
    Old 06-15-2006, 04:46 AM   #10
    Lenin
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    Re: To Lenin---DIOVAN

    Mamselle,

    There are no antihypertensive drugs without a huge laundry list of side effects. For anything you think about taking, look it up beforehand in the PDR (Physician's Desk Reference at you library or get the "prescribing information" PDF from the company's website.)

    Most drugs are categorized into side effects by likely occurrence and the bottom hundred are classified into a huge batch called "under 1%." Since this is what the manufacturers report, it is likely that many of them are really above 1%.

    If you will not tolerate a <1% chance of hair falling out or weight gain, then you are probably going to have to go without an antihypertensive. Side effects are the flip side of all drugs. In fact, if your standard is to assume the worst case scenario, that you WILL get some of the <1%, there is probably NO drug of any kind, for anything, that you can take. Many drugs even include DEATH in the list.

    I, too, find that ALL these drugs are accursed in one way or another. We all must weigh the danger and degree of hypertension against the likelihood of a passsle of side effects. It's just the way it is!

    Last edited by Lenin; 06-15-2006 at 04:49 AM.

     
    Old 06-15-2006, 10:57 AM   #11
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    Re: To Lenin---DIOVAN

    I'm only talking about HAIR LOSS and WEIGHT GAIN, I don't care about the other side effects and already know about them and have HAD them, and don't care, or at least CAN 'risk' them. I can't believe that ALL drugs [or all Hypertension drugs] make our hair fall out and gain weight [Metformin/Glucopage for Diabetes also causes hair loss so I wouldn't take that either]. I never heard that about ACE inhibitors causing that, only Diovan [and probably other ARB's though I haven't investigated the other ARB's yet, but I'm sure they're of the same nature]. The problem isn't side effects per say..... ONLY hair loss and weight gain. So NO.... i'm not going to live out my life FAT and BALD just to keep my pressure down, there MUST be another way..... i'd RATHER be dead and I'm not the only woman who feels that way lol

    Last edited by Mamzelle; 06-15-2006 at 11:07 AM.

     
    Old 06-15-2006, 07:51 PM   #12
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    Re: To Lenin---DIOVAN

    Mamzelle, my grandmother took enalapril for over ten yrs and yes he took her hair out, she now wears a wig. It also caused her poor eye sight. My grandmother is a diabetic, and has been for 30 yrs. She lost over 110 lbs and was able to stop taking insulin, but her bp is still a problem.

    As a diabetic, we are more prone to heart disease than the rest of the population. I agree with Lenin. Lord knows my mom (also diabetic) has tried every class of bp med there is. Doctors were getting angry with her bcuz she kept refusing to taking certain meds. Bp meds (all drugs) are trial and error. We have to pick or "poison" and do what we can to lower our bp. My mom went two yrs (or more) with bp over 190/90, she has finally found a combo of drugs she can live with.

    However, she now have diabetic complication bcuz her bp was so high. Her eye sight has gotten worst. Her bp is stable at 130/80, her cholesterol came down from 2897 to 243 (zocor) and her thyroid is normal again.

    I hope you find a bp med that can help you get good results before you have complications. To keep the weight off my mom walks 3 to 5 miles daily and practice portion control. Good luck!

    oh yes, and she is not bald or fat.

     
    Old 06-15-2006, 08:47 PM   #13
    Mamzelle
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    Re: To Lenin---DIOVAN

    But your Mom IS bald or partially if she **has** to wear a wig. I wear them too sometimes [easier and because of thinning, but I always had wigs all my life, for variety, laziness, or just glamour, which is the name of the game and lifestyle in Manhattan where I was born and bred and lived all my life.... they're beautiful, so I'm not a stranger to them but don't want to be a SLAVE to them because I HAVE to be, they're uncomfortable for constant wear and overheating especially in summer, and I don't go out much in summer..... which lasts 5-6 months where I live, from May through October now with global warming..... even when driven, because I can't tolerate heat and humidity, nor getting dressed and made up for it in hot weather]. There is no telling for sure that your Mother lost her hair from Enalapril, some do with age and constant thinning when aging is not uncommon even without medications, it has a lot to do with genes and heredity......

    But I was BP successful with Enalapril and still taking it... 3/4's I've been experimenting with but with the whole 5 mgs my pressure was down to perfect 120/70's or often lower, but the cough got in the way, but with 3/4th's it's still effective at 130's and sometimes 140's and last night 111/60's [forgot last night's exact dia but that's always in 60's or 70's only if I have a 'spike' it even 'reaches' the 80's as the second number, which is high for me]. It was ONLY the cough that interfered, not the effectiveness of the Enalapril, and it's lowest 5 mg dose worked right away.......

    Now with 3/4ths of the pill [instead of half, which wasn't enough for the BP] it's in 130's 140's and sometimes 120's or below but not AS regularly in 120's as it was with the whole 5mgs, so I really like the pill, and other than fatigue, which I had anyway BEFORE taking it, and as I said above, I'm going to try the 5 mgs again soon to see if maybe it was a congestion condition that week which induced the coughing that I never had before with it [or without it]......

    My mother was diabetic all her life [T2] and on insulin and Dr. Atkins personally got her off insulin [we both were his patients long ago for her diabetes and for me; just the correct philosophy of eating in general, which she always forced on us growing up even before Atkins]...... but after a while, she preferred insulin because it gave her more dietary leeway.... and died a ripe old age with no diabetic complications. In fact in her last years, she strangely didn't even need her reading glasses anymore!.....

    I don't believe I should give in to a Doctor just not to ANNOY him/her! Too bad, this is MY body and MY health and I'm sure that most of us even do more investigating, research and studying of meds we're taking than THEY do and are more current, because it IS our body and of more concern to us. I can do a whole dissertation on that subject alone, but won't here......

    I will not be intimidated by doctors, when it comes to my health and will always pursue what is best for ME personally, not what they are used to easily and conveniently prescribing for the masses, because it's popular. Yes it definitely IS trial and error but WE should have the heaviest hand in that, and only check with them with our results to inquire if it's safe and if he/she agrees and why or why NOT then make our own evaluations or get 2nd and 3rd opinions in matters that could very easily decide life or death.... sickness or wellness, AND side effects that WE are willing to live with, not THEY.

    PS, I am not 'able' to walk 3 to 5 miles a day!!! loll, nor even this long block just to mail a letter. Your mother is very lucky that she can but that doesn't apply to everyone, unfortunately. About three minutes at a time IN my home, and I'm exhausted and have to sit, and can't go walking long distances where I CAN'T sit which includes a grocery store and other errands, etc. So everyone has their own situation and story. Nothing can be assumed about anyone. There's much more but I won't bore you with making this any longer lol I appreciate your input and hope your mom continues to do so well!!

     
    Old 06-15-2006, 08:48 PM   #14
    Mamzelle
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    Re: To Lenin---DIOVAN

    Oooops, sorry... I meant your grandmother, too, not just your mother :-)

    Last edited by Mamzelle; 06-15-2006 at 08:51 PM.

     
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