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    Old 10-02-2007, 09:27 AM   #1
    gib
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    Pain and BP Meds

    I'm well traveled with BP meds, beta-blockers for years, last year BenicarHCT and Norvasc, switched to Avalide about 2 months ago and something other I can't remember when Beni and Norv went off the formulary list.

    Anyway, I have the usual fatigue symptoms that is common, but the joint and muscle pain seems to drag on and on. Is muscle pain really that common for some of the meds or is it just in everyones heads?

    One pain is in my arm. I do some motorcycle off-road racing and took a minor spill at least 3 months ago. Landed on my side, arm, thigh, ankle, no biggie. Afterwards, buddy punched me in same arm as he does a lot in friendly banter. This arm, bicep area, continues to be sore, kind of comes and goes, but I squeeze the muscle it doesn't hurt, didn't harm my shoulder, can't really point to anything specific that's causing the pain, other than a general ache that kind of throbs, I guess it's more of a muscle ache.

    In doing some other activities 2 months ago, I kind of hyper-extended my knee. I've blown out my other knee in the past, so I know symptoms of joint damage, but my recent hyper-extended knee seems to be nagging me much in the same way as my arm is. It kind of throbs, and in the last few weeks I've gone through what may seam to be tendonitis of the ham-string tendon in that knee. I can't see any reason for the tendons to ache for a week. It's finally subsided to some degree.

    I'm somewhat athletic and very active, working out 4 times a week with plenty of cardio. I keep my body well worked, but there seems to be no direct reason for these on-going muscle aches and it annoys me!

    Is Avalide or BP meds in general responsible for muscle/joint pains? I can understand the fatigue side effect, but muscle pain?

    Thanks!

     
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    Old 10-02-2007, 05:04 PM   #2
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    Re: Pain and BP Meds

    Gib,

    Avalide is irbesartan (spelling?) and hydrochlorothiazide. I haven't taken avalide but I have been on varying doses of hydrochlorothiazide and 4 months after taking it I began 10 weeks (3 hours/week) of extensive physical therapy due to excruciating back pain and shoulder pain...doctor had ruled out tumors so I opted for therapy instead of meds. I had not injured myself and the doctor and the physical therapist said basically, "We just don't know "why" sometimes. It was when I visited this board that my "aha" moment occurred...someone else had ended up in the emergency room with MY symptoms! Seems that person was taking hct, also. A perusal of hct's package insert reveals back and shoulder pain as side effects, and it lists muscle pain also.

    So, the answer to your question is yes. And FYI, the muscle pain is NOTHING compared to the joint pain...

    You've been on benicar/hct which has hydrochlorothiazide in it....although you may not have had a muscle/joint problem then, you may be on a different dose, you may be "late" in developing side effects as they can develop at any time...or you may be experiencing a reaction to the irbersartan or to the combo of irbersartan and hctz....

    Bethsheba

     
    Old 10-03-2007, 08:08 AM   #3
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    Re: Pain and BP Meds

    Thank you! The other stuff I'm taking is Felodipine which is a calcium channel blocker. It too lists muscle and joint discomfort as side effects. I've been taking it at night before bed, usually around 12-1am, I'm a night owl. The Avalide I take in the morning. But almost like clock work, 4-5am I wake up with my arm throbbing. I think I'll take this earlier in the evening see if I notice a change in my arm.


    This is so annoying, it's like these minor injuries are attacked by the BP meds (if that's what's going on) and while the injuries have healed, the associated throbbing, stiffness, won't go away.

     
    Old 10-03-2007, 06:33 PM   #4
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    Re: Pain and BP Meds

    Is Alavide a generic for Cozaar or in the same class of drugs ?

    If so, I would suspect that drug. Your remark about throbbing arm pain reminded me of my severe reaction to Cozaar. I only took it 13 days. Usually the symptoms would be on both sides of the body. Please see my post in response to info about Cozaar. Fam

     
    Old 10-03-2007, 07:07 PM   #5
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    Re: Pain and BP Meds

    While reading about blood pressure drugs in one of my drug books, I realized that muscle pain/aches are so frequently mentioned, I think ALL blood pressure medications cause them. I even thought of making an Excel spreadsheet for an easy visual comparison of the side effects of all BP meds. Don't have the time just now.

    FG

    Last edited by flowergirl2day; 10-03-2007 at 08:42 PM.

     
    Old 12-12-2007, 05:58 AM   #6
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    Lightbulb Re: Pain and BP Meds

    I have been on Diovan HCTZ for years. It has really controlled by BP but there may be a problem. Not long after I started taking this combo I started getting muscle pain. I have been told everything from "it's your weight", "it's gout", "it's rhumatism (spell?)","it's being over 40 (I'm 43)" and the latest "you have fibromyalgia" . The thing is my 23 year old son has started having the same symptoms.Guess what he's on, HCTZ. It's rare for males to get fibro especially at his age. Could the HCTZ be the real problem and why didn't either of our doctors make the connection? I'm tired of the constant pain and have begun to wonder it the risk of heart attack and stroke isn't preferable to this day in and day out nightmare.

     
    Old 12-12-2007, 11:46 AM   #7
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    Re: Pain and BP Meds

    I don't think you'll find any doctor that will make that 'connection', search this forum too, I don't think you'll find one person who's posted anything about a doctor suggesting anything close, but you will find many complaints from people about their doctor dismissing complaints about side effects.

    Actually, I think the idea of gout is perhaps not too far off base or a form of it at least. Uric acid is indicated to increase with HCTZ use, perhaps a few other BP drugs as well and that is what Gout is, Uric acid crystals that collect in joints, primarily the feet or toes. Next time I'll ask the doc specifically about this.

     
    Old 12-12-2007, 04:46 PM   #8
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    Re: Pain and BP Meds

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Donna1964 View Post
    I have been on Diovan HCTZ for years. It has really controlled by BP but there may be a problem. Not long after I started taking this combo I started getting muscle pain. I have been told everything from "it's your weight", "it's gout", "it's rhumatism (spell?)","it's being over 40 (I'm 43)" and the latest "you have fibromyalgia" . The thing is my 23 year old son has started having the same symptoms.Guess what he's on, HCTZ. It's rare for males to get fibro especially at his age. Could the HCTZ be the real problem and why didn't either of our doctors make the connection? I'm tired of the constant pain and have begun to wonder it the risk of heart attack and stroke isn't preferable to this day in and day out nightmare.
    Based on personal experience I would have to say I definitely think the hct is causing the muscle/joint pain. And yes, it may be "gout" also, because hct increases one's risk of developing gout. And fyi, gout is one type of rheumatism.

    I've also thought about the fibromyalgia connection. I have known people who have had it and the symptoms appear to be similar to my experiences on bp medication. I suspect there is a connection....and I would be interested in knowing what meds/otc's people with fibromyalgia have taken prior to/during their batttle with fibromyalgia.

    Bethsheba

    Last edited by bethsheba; 12-12-2007 at 04:47 PM.

     
    Old 12-12-2007, 09:12 PM   #9
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    Re: Pain and BP Meds

    Hi,

    I got severe muscle pain not cramping in my calfs when walking plus a few other symptoms when I first started taking HCTZ-I think it was after the 2nd pill. My Dr. zeroed in on the situation as she had seen other patients with the same symptoms. She said to stop the med immediately because she thought I was having an allergic reaction even though I didn't have the typical symptoms of an allergy. The frightened look on her face told me this was very serious (she is normally pretty laid back.) I got the feeling that she may have had a patient die from this type of drug reaction.

    I saw an allergist who said it was a hypersentivey reaction.

    Months later after trying other drugs & running out of options, the super specialist said HCTZ was the only option for me.

    After figuring out other bad reactions from other drugs, I thought I might have an allergy to the yellow dye #6 Aluminium Lake which is in HCTZ (25mg). Sure enough when I finally found a source of the pure drug without the dye, I was able to take it without a problem. I armed myself with a Epi (adrenalin injection & some benedryl) just in case.

    It's a great drug for me now & doesn't give me any side effects as long as I follow the rules for taking diuretics.

    Fam

     
    Old 12-13-2007, 04:03 AM   #10
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    Re: Pain and BP Meds

    Hi Fam,

    Did you ever investigate what other substances (foods, for example) contain yellow dye #6? Obviously, I do not want to try hct again unless I have to but perhaps I can do some investigative work regarding the yellow dye with foods to see if I have problems with the dye. HCT was effective for me and I still remember the nurse saying with amazement, "Wow, that brought it right down" . Unfortunately, the reactions.

    I need to explore my options in case I ever have to go on meds again.

    Bethsheba

     
    Old 12-13-2007, 04:48 AM   #11
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    Re: Pain and BP Meds

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Donna1964 View Post
    ... and the latest "you have fibromyalgia" . The thing is my 23 year old son has started having the same symptoms.Guess what he's on, HCTZ. It's rare for males to get fibro especially at his age. Could the HCTZ be the real problem and why didn't either of our doctors make the connection?....
    Donna,

    Just out of curiosity I checked out the fibromyalgia board, reveiwed the symptoms, and by golly, I've experienced more than half of the symptoms (80 of 142) of fibro as side effects of bp meds! As far as doctors making the connection, many don't acknowlege medication side effects, much less identify side effects so they're definely not going to see a "connection".

    I didn't see any connection either when someone I knew lived with "fibro" for several years...the fibro symptoms completely disappeared but I don't know if the disappearance occurred before or after getting off of bp meds...person is now bp med free. It does make me wonder.

    Bethsheba

     
    Old 12-13-2007, 08:04 AM   #12
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    Re: Pain and BP Meds

    Beth,

    Yes, I checked the foods that I eat regularly. I make most of my food from scratch. I didn't find any that had Yellow Dye #6 Aluminium Lake (this is a certain type of yellow dye as opposed to plain yellow dye.) I haven't been able to find out what it is made of but I suppose it is just chemicals. Some of the dyes are made from vegetable matter etc. Even one Dr. Dean says is made from bettles.

    There was one lady who was a patient of that expert at Vanderbilt University who was also allergic to something in the pill. I was never told just what she was allergic to. The nurse told me that she had her HCTZ made up at the Compound Pharmacy in Nashville. So I went there at first until it became a problem with shiping the med to me. I was getting it in a liquid form then & the outside temps got to hot for it.

    The Dr. did say that he had had at least one patient who was also allergic to HCTZ. He never made the connection with the dye causing the problem. I wouldn't have either if it wasn't for the allergic reaction to Levoyxl which had the dye. Once I put all my ingredients,allergic reactions & meds down on paper & made a chart it was very apparent. I consulted with a pharmacist at Walgreens to make sure I had done my deduction correctly. She was amazed & praised me so much for figuring the whole thing out. I was embarrassed because it was so simple once it was down on paper.

    Then I saw the allergist to get his take on it before attempting to take HCTZ again. He would only say it was a hypersenstive reaction but agreed that I should have an injection of adrenalin in case my throat started closing up.
    He didn't think we should do a challenge test with the pill with the dye as it was too risky & not necessary.

    I was pretty scared the first few times I took HCTZ but have not had any problems other than getting into potassium depletion when I was sick with a cold & forgot that I no longer had the option of not eating much when I was sick. Now I have a "sick day diet" to keep up my potassium level.

    Fam

     
    Old 12-13-2007, 08:06 AM   #13
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    Re: Pain and BP Meds

    Donna,

    It was a burning, stinging pain in my calfs.

    Fam

     
    Old 12-13-2007, 11:13 AM   #14
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    Re: Pain and BP Meds

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by famnd View Post
    Beth,

    Yes, I checked the foods that I eat regularly. I make most of my food from scratch. I didn't find any that had Yellow Dye #6 Aluminium Lake (this is a certain type of yellow dye as opposed to plain yellow dye.) I haven't been able to find out what it is made of but I suppose it is just chemicals. Some of the dyes are made from vegetable matter etc. Even one Dr. Dean says is made from bettles.
    Now, that's interesting! Yes, I make most of my foods from scratch, too, and that may be why I haven't run into problems until now. I'm not one of those people who does loads of vitamins/supplements/herbals/organics. I simply try to eat a variety of fresh local food, and supplement it with treats (papaya, mango, whatever) from the tropics. I love ice cream and candy but I instead of spending my money on those goodies, I "splurge" on healthy treats.

    Quote:
    ... I consulted with a pharmacist at Walgreens to make sure I had done my deduction correctly. She was amazed & praised me so much for figuring the whole thing out. I was embarrassed because it was so simple once it was down on paper.
    I can understand her amazement...I just wish more health care providers would take the time to listen to their patients. Afterall, we have more at stake than anyone else. You shouldn't be embarrassed, but PROUD!! Nothing is simple unless it is after the fact. And if it was really simple, shouldn't your doctor or pharmacist have thought of the possibility? I've always thought you've had a good head on your shoulders, and better yet, you put it to good use!

    Quote:
    ...I was pretty scared the first few times I took HCTZ but have not had any problems other than getting into potassium depletion when I was sick with a cold & forgot that I no longer had the option of not eating much when I was sick. Now I have a "sick day diet" to keep up my potassium level.
    It's understandable that you'd be scared...you had good reason to be. May I ask what your "sick day diet" is? The reason I ask is that two months after starting hct, I developed what I thought was the stomach flu (now I wonder because stomach flu lasts only24-48 hours and I hadn't had the stomach flu in more than 10 years!) that lasted for 3 weeks. I couldn't keep any food down and had the trots daily. As a result, I didn't take my hct at that time but started up again when I could keep liquids down. Want a laugh? I had a follow up appt with my doctor the next month and he wanted to know why I wasn't taking my meds at that time? Shouldn't my symptom of vomiting daily be self explanatory? And shouldn't that have been a sign to check my electrolyte balance?? My potassium levels were low when the hct was prescribed two months prior but those weeks of water/soda only probably pushed me over the edge. I need to keep something on hand to prevent that, but I'm not big on the electrolyte solution (water, baking soda, table salt, and sugar) used for rehydration...I would prefer not to get to that point.

    Anyway, thanks so much for sharing your experience and insights...and please, don't sell yourself short. I have learned so very much from you and I haven't thanked you enough!!!

    Hope you're doing ok.

    Bethsheba

     
    Old 12-15-2007, 06:15 AM   #15
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    Angry Re: Pain and BP Meds

    Thanks for the input everyone
    I had to go to the doctor two days ago because I was in unreal pain. My inflamation level is through the roof (c-reactive protein of 4.1). They put me on anti-inflam. drugs which has made it somewhat tolerable but the risk of heart attack and stroke, especially with taking hctz worries me. I asked the doctor if it could be the hctz and the answer was "you've taken it for years, they only tell you of those possible effects when you start taking it but it's rare for hctz to cause problems." Of course I mentioned the fact that someone must have had problems or they wouldn't have warned of them.That got him to do blood work but not much else. I can't say I like doctors much at this point. Of course he knows nothing about fibro and hasn't the slightest idea if inflamation is common with it or not. Do they really know anything? Anyway, thanks again, it may be enough to get me to make them try something else.

     
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