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  • how long does it take for beta blocker to take effect?

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    Old 07-07-2008, 06:25 PM   #46
    Machaon
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    Re: how long does it take for beta blocker to take effect?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by flowergirl2day View Post
    How have your lungs handled the breathing during an exercise or other strenuous activity?
    The problem I have is not with my lungs, it is with my weakened, stretched out heart, thickened heart. A weakened (failed) heart is easier to strain, or stress, than a healthier heart, causing me to have breathing problems, if I don't space out my weight lifting and use of the stepper.

    Power walking, OTOH, seems to be much less stressful on my heart, and provides a more immediate benefit, than weight lifting or using the stepper. If I am having a bad heart day, with heart-related breathing problems, or Asthma, soon after I start my 30 minute power walk, my breathing problems improve significantly and most of the time ease up completely by the end of the power walk.

    Fortunately, as my heart and health continue to improve due to my very healthy diet, I have far fewer problems breathing. It is just incredibly amazing what a healthy, balanced, low-glycemic, or Insulin Resistant, diet can do for one's health. I still don't believe the positive results of my diet on my health.

    Quote:
    Gaining control of one's breathing during exertion could turn out to be a real challenge.
    When my heart failure was much worse, the slightest exertion would cause breathing problems for up to three days. My ankles and legs swelled. I suffered from fatigue, chest pains, oversweating, shortness of breath, weakness, etc. I started on a diet targeting Insulin Resistance, in Dec. 2004, which I documented on HBs, and ever since then my heart and my health have gotten dramatically better, and keep improving.

    Quote:
    Can a person manipulate the breathing somehow and prevent shortness of breath from occuring? Does the SOB ever go away?
    I guess it depends upon what is causing the shortness of breath, whether it is caused by a weak heart, or Coronary Artery Disease, or Asthma or Insulin Resistance, etc.


    Quote:
    Many thanks for your post.
    I appreciate you reading it, and then taking the time to respond.

    Oh...... by the way, I am back on 3.125mg Coreg, once per day. My blood pressure stayed great, without the Coreg, but I was experiencing increased heart rhythm problems. Since back on the Coreg, my heart's rhythm is back to "normal-abnormal".

    I hope things are going very well for you. Have a great week!
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    Last edited by Machaon; 07-07-2008 at 06:27 PM.

     
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    Old 07-08-2008, 08:51 AM   #47
    flowergirl2day
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    Re: how long does it take for beta blocker to take effect?

    Quote:
    I guess it depends upon what is causing the shortness of breath, whether it is caused by a weak heart, or Coronary Artery Disease, or Asthma or Insulin Resistance, etc.
    In the presence of multiple possible contributing factors it may be very difficult to determine the exact cause of SOB.

    Quote:
    Oh...... by the way, I am back on 3.125mg Coreg, once per day. My blood pressure stayed great, without the Coreg, but I was experiencing increased heart rhythm problems. Since back on the Coreg, my heart's rhythm is back to "normal-abnormal".
    Knowing that this beta blocker has been so effective for you is very encouraging. I will do some reading about it and ask my doctor if switching from Bisoprolol to Coreg might be an option, providing it does not worsen fluid retention.

    flowergirl

    Last edited by flowergirl2day; 07-08-2008 at 08:56 AM.

     
    Old 07-08-2008, 10:12 AM   #48
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    Re: how long does it take for beta blocker to take effect?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by flowergirl2day View Post
    Have you ever had to face feeling discouraged and sort of ready to throw in the towel? It's not easy to remain optimistic in terms of dealing with some of these issues, especially when encountering setbacks along the way.
    When my symptoms were getting much worse, in 2003 and 2004, I wasn't discouraged, I was scared to death. Heart Failure is a progressive disease, meaning that it is expected to get worse over time. Heart Failure, combined with persistent Atrial Fibrillation, which I have, has an even higher rate of morbidity and mortality. I also have some nasty autoimmune problems, which would complicate and greatly worsen my heart problems, if I couldn't find a way to calm my immune system. I have learned how to "calm" my immune system by avoiding many autoimmune "triggers".

    In 2004, I figured out (guessed) that I was insulin resistant, and I started learning about diets targeting Insulin Resistance, not knowing whether or not dieting would come to my rescue or not. It didn't take long to find out! Wow! It's amazing what a healthy diet can do for one's health, even with serious heart and health problems like mine. Add exercising and avoiding AutoImmune "triggers" to the equation, and the majority of people suffering from chronic illnesses could experience significant improvements to their health. It's actually an easy, fairly inexpensive solution to many chronic illnesses, but not one that interests most chronic sufferers or the drug companies, whose profits depend upon diseases NOT being cured.

    Quote:
    I'd like to see your doctor's face when you tell him you don't need any bp meds.
    He will never know. I don't want to hurt his feelings. He is a wonderful, caring guy, and he thinks that it is the meds that have improved my health. He writes the scripts for me. I take them home and put them in a drawer, except for those that I take- 3.125mg Coreg, .125mg Digoxin and 2.5mg Coumadin, all qd.

    Quote:
    In the presence of multiple possible contributing factors it may be very difficult to determine the exact cause of SOB.
    The very first place to start is with diet. The second place to look is allergies. Dust, animals, pollens, pollutants, chemicals, smoke, foods, mold, mildew, etc, can all contribute negatively towards breathing problems. Those are some of the "triggers" that cause all kinds of health problems.

    Two of the most powerful diagnostic tools available, for home diagnoses, are blood pressure monitors and blood sugar monitors. If one determines that their blood pressure is healthy between 7am and 10pm, and that their one hour, two hour and eight hour postprandial blood sugar are all at healthy levels, then they must look elsewhere to diagnose their health problems.

    Quote:
    Knowing that this beta blocker has been so effective for you is very encouraging. I will do some reading about it and ask my doctor if switching from Bisoprolol to Coreg might be an option, providing it does not worsen fluid retention.

    flowergirl
    Let me know what you find out about Coreg, as it relates to your health problems, and if you are going to try it, OK? It would really be nice if it helped you more than the Bisoprolol.

    Take care!
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    Last edited by Machaon; 07-09-2008 at 07:45 AM.

     
    Old 07-08-2008, 09:58 PM   #49
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    Re: how long does it take for beta blocker to take effect?

    Quote:
    Let me know what you find out about Coreg, as it relates to your health problems, and if you are going to try it, OK?
    You bet!
    I looked Coreg up this afternoon in one of my drug books, but the book I had was not detailed enough to suit me. I have one super good book about cardio drugs with all sorts of interesting information. I'll start there. It may take me a while. I'll share if anything interesting turns up.

    FG

    Last edited by flowergirl2day; 07-08-2008 at 09:59 PM.

     
    Old 07-14-2008, 11:40 PM   #50
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    Re: how long does it take for beta blocker to take effect?

    I did some reading about Carvedilol/Coreg.

    It does not seem a whole lot different from the drug I was on last year, Labetalol. Coregs' vasodilating properties are secondary to alpha1 blocking activity. Labetalol also has some alpha1 blocking activity, in addition to its non-selective beta blocking activity. In both drugs there's a greater degree of beta adrenergic inhibiting activity than alpha blocking activity. So far so good.

    Interestingly, at higher doses Carvedilol exerts calcium channel blocking activity. I was really surprised to hear that! This, of course, made me wonder whether Labetalol could possibly have similar effects on the calcium channels in the heart. If so, it would partly explain my being so ill while on a large dose of this drug. I have also been taking a maximum dose of a calcium channel blocker (since the beginning of my therapy), making any additional generated calcium channel blocking activity unnecessary and udesirable.

    Coreg, like any other drug, has its pros and cons. What really got my attention were some of its very common side effects, specifically: increased dyspnea, fluid in the lungs, anemia, upper respiratory infections, shortness of breath, sinus problems, swelling....and it can interfere with kidney function! I have been dealing with many of these symptoms and would not want to make things worse for myself. They say that things get worse after starting Coreg before they get better. Has that been your experience?

    Anyway, people in a fluid overload state, or those that are symptomatically hypotensive should not be given this drug. The reason for this is that the beta blockers initially cause negative inotropic and chronotropic effects. The improvements in LV function take time to develop. Coreg does seem to work well in improving both diastolic and systolic LV function. I read some of the results of the clinical trials -Comet, Copernicus, Swedic and Capricorn. Without a doubt, Coreg is an effective drug for treating hypertension and HF. They say it appears to restore calcium homeostasis. This is what is thought to contribute to the diastolic restoration and changes in LV filling pattern. The fact that it has such powerful antioxidant properties doesn't hurt, either! I think the calcium angle is fascinating - the fact that the changes in calcium homeostasis result in an increased diastolic calcium concentration. I'll definitely try to learn more about it.

    Another beta blocker, Nebivolol, is right up there with Coreg - very effective and much praised. A lot has been written about Nebivolol (Bystolic), Coreg and Labetalol, all of them effective antihypertensives with vasodilating properties. Bystolic sounds especially promising.

    flowergirl

     
    Old 07-16-2008, 04:53 PM   #51
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    Re: how long does it take for beta blocker to take effect?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by flowergirl2day View Post
    Coreg, like any other drug, has its pros and cons. What really got my attention were some of its very common side effects, specifically: increased dyspnea, fluid in the lungs, anemia, upper respiratory infections, shortness of breath, sinus problems, swelling....and it can interfere with kidney function! I have been dealing with many of these symptoms and would not want to make things worse for myself.
    It is not a big surprise that, when medical science attempts to change the way that our complex immune system operates, not all goes well.

    When I increased Coreg, I suffered uncomfortable sinus problems. That is one of the reasons I cut back on the Coreg. The other reason I cut back was because my blood pressure was getting too low.

    I have now been on 3.125mg Coreg, only once per day, for 46 days, quit taking Verapamil 75 days ago and quit taking my Ace Inhibitor 81 days ago, and reduced my Digoxin to .125mg 42 days ago, and I couldn't be more pleased with the results. Tomorrow I plan to reduce my Digoxin to only four days per week.

    My average blood pressure for July has been 116/71 based on 66 readings and for all of 2008, 122/72 based on 1740 readings. Plus I'm feeling better than I have in DECADES! It took me many years to solve the complex riddle of what causes high blood pressure. The things that cause high blood pressure are also responsible for many other health problems. High blood pressure is not an independent disease, in most cases, but the direct result of a compromised or unbalanced immune system. Hence, the solution to high blood pressure and many other health problems is to make one's immune system healthier and more balanced. This is done through diet, exercise and avoiding the things (triggers) that are harmful to the immune system. Sounds easy, doesn't it?

    Here were my chronically high blood pressure readings from 1998 through 2004:
    • 1998- 152/97; readings= 1016
    • 1999- 146/92; readings= 3599
    • 2000- 145/92; readings= 3322
    • 2001- 147/92; readings= 2375
    • 2002- 151/96; readings= 1423
    • 2003- 151/96; readings= 1032
    • 2004- 146/91; readings= 2065

    I am convinced that people suffering from disabling or life threatening diseases can greatly improve their lives and health through diet, exercise and avoiding the things (triggers) that irritate and aggravate their immune systems. I really feel that, most people waiting for heart transplants could easily reverse their heart disease, but unfortunately, will either die, or have to get their heart replaced because diet, exercise and avoidance of triggers, is not profitable to our medical industry. Sad, isn't it?

    Quote:
    They say that things get worse after starting Coreg before they get better. Has that been your experience?
    At first, it increased my blood pressure, but thereafter it reduced my blood pressure too much!

    I didn't stay on the increased dose of Coreg long enough to find out about too many other problems. When it caused me sinus problems, I backed the dosage down. It was also giving me too low of a blood pressure, so I finally backed it down to 3.125mg, once per day.

    Quote:
    I read some of the results of the clinical trials -Comet, Copernicus, Swedic and Capricorn. They say it appears to restore calcium homeostasis. This is what is thought to contribute to the diastolic restoration and changes in LV filling pattern. ... I think the calcium angle is fascinating - the fact that the changes in calcium homeostasis result in an increased diastolic calcium concentration. I'll definitely try to learn more about it.
    Good luck. That is all Greek to me. I'm glad that you understand that stuff.

    Keep up the great research! It's a shame that you didn't go into a medical profession. With your research abilities, and fascination with how things work, you would have been very good at it.

    Thanks for posting the results of your research. I hope that you are doing quite well, and will continue to do well!
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    Last edited by Machaon; 07-17-2008 at 06:48 AM.

     
    Old 07-17-2008, 08:16 AM   #52
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    Re: how long does it take for beta blocker to take effect?

    Thank you for sharing your thoughts on such a complex issue. I feel you are absolutely right about the immune system disorders and imbalances affecting our blood pressure negatively. We should not underestimate the importance of a good diet and a healthy lifestyle in our blood pressure management. While many of the factors that contribute to achieving and maintaining good blood pressure control vary for each individual, a healthy diet, combined with exercise, is the universally proven key to success.

    I think it's amazing that you have been able to do so well on minimum medication. I often wonder how many of the drugs we take are truly needed. Overprescribing is a major problem. This is why it is recommended that those of us who achieve good blood pressure control, and have been able to maintain it for a year, should try to reduce our blood pressure medication (with the help of our doctors). It will not hurt to try.

    I feel this thread is important enough for me to print & save for future reference. I also think I should re-read the two books about the immune system I read last year. They made quite an impression on me back then.

    I have not finished reading about Coreg and other beta blockers. In spite of some negative recent publicity, beta blockers happen to be my favorite drug class.

    flowergirl

     
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