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  • Second doctor wants me to come off bp meds and use supplements any opinions?

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    Old 07-25-2009, 09:01 AM   #1
    kg21678
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    Second doctor wants me to come off bp meds and use supplements any opinions?

    Ok so I am now seeing an internist, his credentials are as follows is a physician Board-certified in internal medicine, interventional cardiology and nuclear cardiology. A graduate of Princeton University, Johns Hopkins School of Medicine and Johns Hopkins School of Public Health,Master of Science in Oriental Medicine from Samra University.



    Recently I went to see him. He took my bp and it was at 160/90 (this is on 120 mg of verapamil) and he told me to relax for 10 min and came back it dropped to 140/80. I have had erratic BP readings for the last 3 years on bp meds ranging from 120/80-160/90. Anyhow this new doctor wanted to do a thorough blood test on me, and these were the results


    My ana titer is 1:1280
    My reverse t3 is 328 (within normal range but high normal)
    My alt sgpt is 51 (high) while my ast sgot is 35 normal
    HDL is 33 low
    LDL is 93 normal
    WBC 6.3 normal
    RBC 5.75 normal
    DHEA SERUM is 28.64 which is high (doctor told me this usually results in higher testosterone but in my case its increasing my estrogen!!
    MCHC 35.5 high
    RDW 14.9 HIGH
    Free t-3 is 3.69 high normal
    testosterone is 268 (im a 27 year old male it should be in the 600's)
    Epstein barr viral panel
    EBV-VCA, IGM (normal)
    EBV-vca igg >750 high
    EBV Early antigen >150 High



    I was on 5mg of paxil (10 cut in half) and was on that for 2 and a half years. on and off the 10mg. Recently this new doctor said i have functioning hypothyroid, meaning its in the normal ranges but almost out of the normal range, I also have low testosterone for my age (268) when it should be in the 600's, and I have a high estrogen level. I am 27 years old. He told me he wants me to stop taking the paxil immediately, and he wants me to taper off the blood pressure medication. Instead he wants me to take supplements as follows: Hawthorne for my bloodpressure (havent started yet), I am currently taking chai hu jia long gu mu li tang (bupleurum & D.B. combination) for anxiety, and immuplex from standard process to strengthen my immune system (because of my high ana and the fact i tested positive for the epstein barr).



    I am nervous about all this even though i know the guy is legit, i guess ive been brainwashed to believe the only thing that will help bp is meds, but he doesn't think i have legit high bp. I wake up every morning after taking my bp meds at night with a sore throat, and weak legs, not to mention i feel like i can't function during the day, which is why if i really can stop the meds and feel better than im all for it.

    What are your feelings on this? I know there are some bp veterans on here would love to hear your opinions thank you VERY much

     
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    Old 07-25-2009, 11:05 PM   #2
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    Re: Second doctor wants me to come off bp meds and use supplements any opinions?

    I just wanted to add, today when i got really anxious my bp shot up to 146/92 (on the bp med) But later while i was relaxed it was 112/72. Then i took my bp med tonight and it dropped to 97/72! Never had a reading this low to my knowledge, now i am getting weird sensations in my chest and sometimes when i go to sleep i wake up in the middle of the night because it feels as if my heart is not pumping enough blood (if thats possible) or maybe my bp is dropping too low?

     
    Old 07-26-2009, 01:25 AM   #3
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    Re: Second doctor wants me to come off bp meds and use supplements any opinions?

    IMO: Hawthorn is absoultely the worse hyped out otc supplement there is for treating hbp. Lots of people including majority of bodybuilders saw no results. I too tried hawthorn extact and it bought my bp down, but it only lasted <2 hours. and then sky high again.

    Look into "COQ10" instead its been proven to drop bp by many studies.

     
    Old 07-26-2009, 04:29 PM   #4
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    Re: Second doctor wants me to come off bp meds and use supplements any opinions?

    I think it sounds like you have a lot going on and that you owe it to yourself to trust your doctor for a while & see what happens. I know it's easier said than done, but so far it looks like he's being very thorough. It also sounds like your BP is very responsive to anxiety, so maybe getting your anxiety under control would help the BP? I've lived that nightmare & somehow fought my way out of it. It's the worry that kills us... not the BP!

     
    Old 07-26-2009, 07:13 PM   #5
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    Re: Second doctor wants me to come off bp meds and use supplements any opinions?

    My experience makes me leary of otc products being used to treat hypertension...but that is just me. There are so many good BP medications that have been proven to work effectively and safely, (and have saved my life).

    My doctor does recommend CoQ10 as a supplement to my medication, but not as a replacement. By the way, prolonged hypertension CAN kill you...In my case malignant hypertension caused 4 simultaneous strokes on my brain, strokes on my retinas, kidney failure, heart attack, and a few other things.

    My life today relies on very close control of my BP, and a medication regime that I will manage the rest of my life. I couldn't be happier to do it either, because I love everyday, and am thrilled to wake up each morning.

    I wish you the best, and let us know how you are doing, OK?

     
    Old 07-26-2009, 11:05 PM   #6
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    Re: Second doctor wants me to come off bp meds and use supplements any opinions?

    Heres how I look at supplements vs medications


    There are tons of supplements out there for bringing down your blood pressure. But the thing is, they don't last very long. And most cases you will need several different supplements to bring them down to a range you like and you need to be taking them several times throughout the day to keep it at a healthy range. What's even more bothersome is that you dont know the consequences it will cause from taking these supplements. Also the cost of it, insurance doesn't cover supplements. And in time, the prices of these supplements will ad up.


    For medications, you will never find any hidden surprises and doctors/researches are more fully aware of all the consequences with the meds. It'll last longer, most meds you only take once or twice a day. Several different combinations and tons of different drugs are available, so if you dont like one because of the side effects you could switch. And if you have insurance, you will only pay a copay which may be very little cost to you.

     
    Old 07-27-2009, 10:10 AM   #7
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    Re: Second doctor wants me to come off bp meds and use supplements any opinions?

    It may be that his doctor is having him take the supplements as a "placebo" to see if his BP is truly caused by essential hypertension or his anxiety.

    I'm aware that prolonged High Blood Pressure does kill people. I just think it sounds like this doctor is worth listening to. Why do we go to doctors if we aren't willing to work with them?

    I wonder what your blood pressure was when you began taking BP meds?

    On a personal note, I no longer have high blood pressure since my doctor no longer takes it in his office. I take my BP at home, daily, and average 120/82. It was even lower last year, but I've gained some weight that I'm working on losing, which I think has contributed to my higher numbers. My BP has been compltely under control for a year now with no meds. However, I've had readings in the 170/100 range at the doctors office. I too, had extremely low numbers at times when on meds (I even saw 85/55 once). But, also, I could spike big numbers on meds as well. So, for me, it truly is the worry & anxiety that will get me before my BP since I don't have BP problems as long as I'm not at the doctor. Considering you are on Paxil, I wonder if you have similar issues?

    Last edited by zekat; 07-27-2009 at 10:11 AM.

     
    Old 07-27-2009, 12:23 PM   #8
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    Re: Second doctor wants me to come off bp meds and use supplements any opinions?

    I agree that trusting your doctor is very important, as well as having open communication about your treatment. Have you asked your doctor directly, as to his reasons for taking you off medication, and adding the supplements? I would start there. Perhaps his choice of treatment would make more sense to you, if he explains his philosophy to you.

    We all have different issues, and what works for one, doesn't work for another. It is important that you feel comfortable with the treatment you are on, and trust it's benefits to you. Best wishes!

     
    Old 07-27-2009, 03:39 PM   #9
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    Re: Second doctor wants me to come off bp meds and use supplements any opinions?

    Hi thank you to everyone for your input. Its been one day since i started cutting the bp med in half and my bp is fluctuating. When i get anxious its around 146/92. When i am calm my bp is around 124/72. My new doctor says he feels my high bp is caused by my anxiety which is caused by my adrenal system and my functioning hypothyroid. I have to admit, i am scared with this treatment but I also know my blood pressure spikes even while im on the full dosage of bp medication. So, my question is why does my bp spike so high and does it require such a dosage of bp med? I was on a full dosage of 120mg of verapamil and i felt really crappy and my bp spiked when i got anxious to 150/100. It left me feeling very shakey. Thats on the bp med. When i told my primary care physician of 12 years he felt i needed more anxiety medication and if i took that he would consider taking me off the bp med. I have to say the past 3 years has been a nightmare, and the past week has been horrible i can't go anywhere or do anything for fear of these spikes and the withdrawel is causing me stress. I feel like im turning into a hermit, and i was veryvery active at one time hope things get better soon

    Last edited by mod-anon; 07-28-2009 at 12:04 AM. Reason: Please use the Quick Reply button instead of Quote Reply.

     
    Old 07-27-2009, 03:49 PM   #10
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    Re: Second doctor wants me to come off bp meds and use supplements any opinions?

    Bless your heart.

    All I can tell you are the thoughts and actions I took to help me get out of that viscious cycle. I honestly think there is a bit of OCD to it. Personally, Zoloft helped me not "zero in" on my blood pressure. But I've also been off my Zoloft for quite some time now as well, and still no reoccurance of my blood pressure obsession.

    I think on the one hand, we trust entirely TOO much in doctors & medicine, and entirely TOO little in our own bodies. You are young (I was 27 when I started having very similar issues... in fact, I think I started posting on HealthBoards at that time). At any rate, the very first "conclusion" I came to was that a spike from time to time was not going to kill me. And if it was, there wasn't anything I could do about it. Secondly, I felt that if I was typically getting lower numbers at home, that my blood pressure must really not be the problem. For instance, when my dad was trying to get his HBP issues worked out, he would RARELY get numbers lower than 140/90. On the other hand, it was rare for me to get numbers OVER 140/90, but when I did, they would throw me into a tailspin & before it was said & done, I could get 150/100 from all the anxiety! Ugh! It's a nightmare rollercoaster!!

    I think some people are just "hyper-responders". That's my gut feeling anyhow. I, too, deal with thyroid issues and feel it probably contributes to my mental status. So, when it's well controlled, I feel good. When it's not well controlled, I feel anxious, and "off". I see your Free T-3 is "high normal" which would make me think you are closer to HYPER active rather than HYPO. What are your TSH & Free T4? If you are hyperthyroid, that might explain a lot: the anxiety, high bp, and possible high heart rate if you have that?

    Hang in there, and keep trying. You'll find yourself on the other side!

     
    Old 07-30-2009, 04:13 AM   #11
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    Re: Second doctor wants me to come off bp meds and use supplements any opinions?

    Hi thank u for those kind words i have to find my tsh and free t4 numbers. Right now its 6am i have had 4 hours sleep my lower spine feels tons of pressure, extreme difficulty just breathing normall my tongue feels pulled back, hamstrings feel like the onlything holding my legs up from just collapsing knee caps feel like there is nothing there, right in my kneck under my brain feels tons of pressure. I have extreme sensetivity to the heat the minute i hit the heat its like i have an entire reaction in my body, my eyes just can't deal with it, my body begins to feel dragged down almost immediately and i have problem walking, its just a total total disaster. I have had family members speculate possible MS, doctors want me to have contrast mri done for a lump in my lower back. Its very very hard to stay positive ill tell you that, thank God i know what it feels like to be normal

    Last edited by mod-anon; 07-30-2009 at 09:29 PM. Reason: Please use the Quick Reply button instead of Quote Reply.

     
    Old 08-05-2009, 03:27 PM   #12
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    Re: Second doctor wants me to come off bp meds and use supplements any opinions?

    Hawthorn gave me horrible palpitations. I'm able to tolerate Atacand well, but my bp fluctuates wildly, around 100/63 at home to 180/79 and 160/91 a few minutes later at the Dr's office. It's anxiety. Try to chill out more and practice good health habits.

     
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