It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Infectious Diseases Message Board

  • Bone pain and joints

  • Post New Thread   Closed Thread
    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Old 07-12-2008, 03:55 PM   #1
    k2626
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Sep 2006
    Posts: 1,491
    k2626 HB User
    Bone pain and joints

    Hi all I have had traveling bone pain (hits finger for a minute hour later ankle other days pulsating pain deep in spine),extreme joint cracking, occassional buzzing in feet and now bowel issues. I have had a CBC, lupus, ra,sed rate, anti nuc tests all okay
    If this were an ID would it show up on my labs?

    I am very scared and tired of feeling sick I am 33 but feel 93

     
    Sponsors Lightbulb
       
    Old 08-29-2008, 04:33 PM   #2
    k2626
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Sep 2006
    Posts: 1,491
    k2626 HB User
    Re: Bone pain and joints

    Anyone out there? I am still having issues and no dx. I had a bone scan(it came back fine). Neuro said I was fine as I have no muscle weakness and had an mri 1.5 yrs ago for migraines it came back fine (thought I did not have these symptoms then)

    Now I am having muscle twitches all over my body.

    ANY IDEAS??????????????????????

     
    Old 09-02-2008, 08:56 AM   #3
    dream77
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    dream77's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2007
    Location: Stafford,TX,USA
    Posts: 556
    dream77 HB User
    Re: Bone pain and joints

    Hi,
    Your story and symptoms seem very similar to what I've been going through..
    I've had a mix of all sorts of issues ..which seem like rheuamatlogical/aut0-immune issues..
    Over dinner this last weekend I met someone and apparently there are many disease which are auto-immune but don't have tests for it (so no treatment).
    Did any trigger event happen in your life 1.5 years ago ? Child birth triggered my disease (whatever it is) 1.8 years ago.

     
    Old 09-02-2008, 09:35 AM   #4
    k2626
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Sep 2006
    Posts: 1,491
    k2626 HB User
    Re: Bone pain and joints

    The only things I can think of that happened before this started 3 months ago is:


    Brief illness with rash on stomach (went on anti botics)
    Cosmetic surgery (went on anti botics)
    NOTE the two above were win 10 days of each other
    Father diagnosed with term PC-given a few months to live

    Those are the major things that happened then about 3-4 wks later symptoms onset.

    Went to two nueros- one said stress (now I dont think joint cracking can be stress) The other one said "I dont know". Though neither did an MRI. I did have an MRI 1.5 yrs ago for migraines but did not have this stuff going on. Neither did one of my spine

    Went to two rhuem. One said you look great so it must be "stress". The other one said its an infection that will work its way out.

    SO no answers. Back to my GP today who is the only one really helping me.

    What are your symptoms?

    THANKS FOR RESPONDING!

     
    Old 09-02-2008, 11:41 AM   #5
    harka
    Senior Veteran
    (male)
     
    harka's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jul 2008
    Location: Canada
    Posts: 991
    harka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB User
    Re: Bone pain and joints

    Hi there,

    so you had an "abdominal sickness with a rash" and then a little bit later you started having bone and joint trouble. I notice you were sent to a rheumatologist--did s/he mention something called "reactive arthritis"? If so, were you at any point put on NSAID pain killer drugs (plus something to protect your stomach) or else something like prednisone?

     
    Old 09-02-2008, 12:13 PM   #6
    k2626
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Sep 2006
    Posts: 1,491
    k2626 HB User
    Re: Bone pain and joints

    Well not abdominal sickness. I had a flu and then a week after got bumps on my stomach--like little bites. My Dr thought POSSIBLE MRSA (but VERY unlikely) so I was put on Bactrim for 5 days. Then I had cosmetic surgery and was put on an antibotic for 7 days. Both of these cases happened within 3 wks. Then a few wks later I got the symptoms

    The only meds I have been on for an ongoing basis is Aciphex for GERD.

    No the rhuem did not mention the arthritis but did say I could have gotten some bug that would eventually work its way out. The thing is I also have muscle twitching now (all over my body that is getting worse) and the joint cracking seems to be worse as my pain is worse.

     
    Old 09-28-2008, 01:57 PM   #7
    k2626
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Sep 2006
    Posts: 1,491
    k2626 HB User
    Re: Bone pain and joints

    Any ideas?

     
    Old 09-28-2008, 09:38 PM   #8
    harka
    Senior Veteran
    (male)
     
    harka's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jul 2008
    Location: Canada
    Posts: 991
    harka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB User
    Re: Bone pain and joints

    Your symptoms are all non-specific and don't point to any one diagnosis. When doctors say that "stress" is the cause of symptoms, the patient often interprets that as, "The doctor thinks I'm crazy" and then continually searches for answers that will never come. Well, one shouldn't think that because stress causes the elevation of all sorts of different compounds in the body like adrenaline, inflammatory cytokines, cortisol etc. etc. all of which have very objective effects on the body. When one is sick with a virus, inflammatory cytokines are a part of why you feel all achy. You have just given number of circumstances in your life which are no doubt a heavy source of stress both emotionally AND physically and it is no wonder you are feeling pains and clicks in your joints.

    If the rheumatologist didn't suspect reactive arthritis, and the neurologist didn't find anything abnormal, it is very unlikely you are going to find a magical diagnosis elsewhere. Honestly, I think searching is going to drive you to more stress which will compound the problem.

     
    Old 09-28-2008, 10:00 PM   #9
    k2626
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Sep 2006
    Posts: 1,491
    k2626 HB User
    Re: Bone pain and joints

    Thanks C. I just find it hard to believe this could be stress--the pains are HORRIFIC. Can stress cause the joints to crack non stop? I guess this does not sound like any infectious disease?

    You are right, I am searching non stop for answers, but its hard not too when I am in so much pain everywhere and my muscles are twitching all the time. I even wake up in the middle of the night and they are twitching.

    I am going to see a lyme dr next wk though..

     
    Old 09-29-2008, 05:15 AM   #10
    drs
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    drs's Avatar
     
    Join Date: May 2002
    Location: minn.
    Posts: 1,406
    drs HB Userdrs HB Userdrs HB Userdrs HB User
    Re: Bone pain and joints

    k2626, glad to see your going to a lyme's Doc. That's what I was thinking when I read your post. I don't know why doc's don't just order this test done when things like this happen.

     
    Old 09-29-2008, 05:26 AM   #11
    harka
    Senior Veteran
    (male)
     
    harka's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jul 2008
    Location: Canada
    Posts: 991
    harka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB User
    Re: Bone pain and joints

    Hey there,

    Yeah, there is really no infectious disease which can cause this--I have a feeling you may fall in to the category of fibromyalgia. People with fibro often have pain which is significantly worsened by stress. It's somewhat analogous to people who get stomach aches when they're upset (I know my sister is one of them), other people get migraines, and it seems like you are someone who gets joint aches. And yes, the severe joint clicking and aches can all be from stress. You may ask why it's so bad? Well, part of the pain sensation is from the neurochemicals which are running through your blood, but other than actually CAUSING pain, they also do something else--they sensitize your brain to the effects of pain. In other words, your brain begins to interpret these signals as more severe than they are, and the result? SEVERE PAIN.

    Please go to the Lyme doctor with EXTREME caution. You are going down a very dangerous road with that. While many people on this board will not agree with me, there is a term known as "Lyme literate MD" or LLMD who are a bunch of doctors who believe in an entity known as "Chronic lyme disease". This has been shown over and over again with rigourous scientific studies (the most recent being in a 2007 edition of the New England Journal of Medicine) which shows this doesn't exist. The problem is, there are many people like you who go to an LLMD's office, who then sends your blood off to a "Lyme literate lab", which is usually the one in Palo Alto, Ca called Igenex. This lab uses all sorts unapproved methods to look for Lyme disease in the blood, and more often than not, they come back with a positive test. Then, a person like you who has not more than fibromyalgia (which is a heavy diagnosis in itself) ends up being needlessly put on very long courses of antibiotics which are NOT recommended by conventional physicians, including the gurus of infectious diseases--the Infectious Diseases Society of America (IDSA). These long courses of antibiotics can not only be VERY harmful, they can breed resistant organisms including MRSA, VRE, and ESBLs.

    The worst part about it is, you can be taken advantage of, because many patients who go to LLMDs are people like you who are looking for an answer. By giving a patient the answer of Lyme, even if it is wrong, the patient will believe it because they feel "validated" and they will feel like "Finally, a doctor who doesn't think I'm crazy!" Just keep this in mind: while many people with so called "Chronic Lyme disease" end up getting back positive blood tests from Igenex, so do many people who don't have any symptoms whatsoever and live in an area where it is impossible to have Lyme disease (i.e. where tick trapping studies have been done) like the Yukon (extreme Northern Canada).

    I don't think you're crazy, but I DO think you're in a really difficult situation right now. I just hope, no matter what you do, that you feel better soon.

     
    Old 09-29-2008, 10:36 AM   #12
    k2626
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Sep 2006
    Posts: 1,491
    k2626 HB User
    Re: Bone pain and joints

    Wow thanks for your information. I was "tested" for fibro re the pressure points but I was fine. The pain is horrific and feels like its in my bone/joints/muscles. I did not know that stress could cause the joints to crack.

    I had the same fear with the LLMD. I was very hesitant to go and WILL NOT go on meds long term. At most I will try them for 1 wk and I start feeling better then mabye that is the answer. I dont think there would be harm going on them for a wk but I do think long term (if there is not an issue) is a bad idea. I did go through Igenex and came back pos on one band but not the others. I will DEFINATELY proceed with caution, I dont want to feel worse..

     
    Old 09-29-2008, 01:42 PM   #13
    harka
    Senior Veteran
    (male)
     
    harka's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jul 2008
    Location: Canada
    Posts: 991
    harka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB Userharka HB User
    Re: Bone pain and joints

    Hey again!

    Even the idea of going on antibiotics for a week isn't the best idea. Antibiotics have many properties aside from their activity against bacteria. One of them is an anti-inflammatory action which often makes people feel better, and they attribute these positive feelings to "anti-Lyme" action of the medications. In fact, this is not the case and a much better anti-inflammatory (like an NSAID) or something like Tylenol would have worked just as well without all the potential nasty side-effects of antibiotics.

    Also, when assessing any diagnostic test you always have to assess its validity. When a test comes back positive or negative, you have to interpret the following:

    TRUE POSITIVE (the test is positive and the person has the disease)
    FALSE POSITIVE (the test is positive but the person does NOT have the disease)

    TRUE NEGATIVE (the test is negative and the person does NOT have the disease)
    FALSE NEGATIVE (the test is negative but the person actually DOES have the disease)

    This is something which is very difficult to explain to laypeople because they think that all medical tests are essentially infallible, which is clearly not the case.

    Igenex labs is NOTORIOUS for having false positive results. Academic medical centers have actually sent batches of healthy med students' blood (people who do NOT have Lyme disease) and many of the results of returned saying the blood was POSITIVE for Lyme. Now think of all the people out there who are also receiving positive Lyme results when they don't actually have Lyme, and are being put on months upon months of antibiotics.

    The accepted way to test for Lyme disease is a two step process involving an ELISA and then "Western blot" plus an ELISA. A bunch of protein from your blood is first tested to see if there are Lyme-specific antibodies. This is often positive in people with Lyme (TRUE POSITIVE), but it can also be positive in a significant number of people who do NOT have Lyme (FALSE POSITIVE). To combat this, a further "sorting" step is done with electric currents (called gel electrophoresis) which arranges proteins by size. The antibody detection step is repeated on only a certain size of protein, and if this is positive, it is much more likely for it to be a TRUE positive.

    The first band (as you mentioned) is often positive in many people, and I really wish they wouldn't report that as it brings up a LOT of confusion. What they SHOULD do is only report the result of the Western blot (i.e. sorting step) ELISA.

    That's a lot of information wasn't it? Whooooo!!!

    Last edited by harka; 09-29-2008 at 01:44 PM.

     
    Old 09-29-2008, 02:12 PM   #14
    k2626
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Sep 2006
    Posts: 1,491
    k2626 HB User
    Re: Bone pain and joints

    Wow interesting, though I have heard the debate in the community about it! My problem is anti inflammatories do not work, sigh.

    You are very knowledgable, thank you for sharing with me!

    So if it were stress causing this, what is released in the body that would cause my extreme joint cracking?

    Last edited by k2626; 09-29-2008 at 02:12 PM.

     
    Old 09-30-2008, 04:15 AM   #15
    drs
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    drs's Avatar
     
    Join Date: May 2002
    Location: minn.
    Posts: 1,406
    drs HB Userdrs HB Userdrs HB Userdrs HB User
    Re: Bone pain and joints

    One other thing I've heard is yeast in the body can cause joint cracking, not sure if this is true in your case or not. Just a thought for you.

     
    Closed Thread

    Related Topics
    Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
    Those who have bone pain hsanthuff Lyme Disease 16 07-13-2008 10:11 AM
    Popular Osteoporosis Drugs Triple Risk of Bone Necrosis osteoblast Osteoporosis 24 04-17-2008 03:21 PM
    Tail Bone Pain - anyone else? Katirina Back Problems 6 06-30-2007 08:41 AM
    Sudden onset of joint/bone pain with sore throat keno123 Arthritis 5 12-22-2006 02:21 PM
    Rapid Bone Loss! what causes it? rodekill4404 Osteoporosis 17 04-25-2006 12:44 PM
    Fast growing, proliferating bone spurs in hands. agferna Bone Disorders 3 05-06-2005 11:47 AM
    bone spurs on spine! pdn Back Problems 17 07-14-2004 07:18 AM
    Bone loss and levoxyl miller01 Thyroid Disorders 2 12-23-2003 09:02 PM




    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Search this Thread:

    Advanced Search

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is Off
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are Off
    Pingbacks are Off
    Refbacks are Off




    Sign Up Today!

    Ask our community of thousands of members your health questions, and learn from others experiences. Join the conversation!

    I want my free account

    All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:01 AM.





    © 2020 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved.
    Do not copy or redistribute in any form!