It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Liver & Pancreas Disorders Message Board

  • Elevated Liver Enzymes

  • Post New Thread   Reply Reply
    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Old 05-30-2019, 07:53 AM   #1
    star78
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jan 2019
    Posts: 10
    star78 HB User
    Elevated Liver Enzymes

    My grandmother is in her early nineties and until the last few months, she has been in fairly decent health. Her mother lived to be 106 yrs old. Leading up until now, there were subtle differences with her eating less and losing weight. A month or so ago she complained that she felt something at the back of her throat and it turns out it was a sore which she was given medicine to take for it.

    As weeks went by, she became lethargic and would barely eat. Her doc took blood and it came back that she was very dehydrated and her AST;ALT were 432;175. She stayed in the hospital for a week and was given IV fluids. She took an ultrasound and cat scan of the liver which didn't show anything negative. They did more blood work which only revealed smoldering myeloma which they said was an "incidental finding." Her liver enzyme numbers trended down which is why they released her but didn't go back to normal.

    Upon coming home, she started drinking more water (one 8oz bottle) and would eat bland food like oatmeal or grits and a bit of soup for dinner. She tried walking around at home a bit but was still lethargic. She followed up with her doctor to discuss resuming her high blood pressure meds (she was told to stop taking all meds upon being discharged from the hospital) and her doc did more blood work. He called 3 days later and stated she needed to go to the hospital asap bc she needed fluids as her AST;ALT numbers were now 973;251. He also said her bili was 9.4.

    It's been almost 2 weeks that she's been to the hospital and they still haven't come up with a diagnosis after taking another MRI with contrast, more blood work, etc. Her liver numbers are now 200;65 which the doc said is still not where he wants them but much better. Our big concern right now is that she is not eating. They have to force her to eat yogurt, fruit, etc and as a result, she is very weak and tired. She said she is tired and can't take being in the hospital anymore and at times it looks like she is losing her will to live. Other times, she talks about how she wants to see a dentist when she gets home, how she will eat and drink more, etc.

    Anyone have any opinions? The docs keep saying that everything is coming back okay and that she may have had some kind of virus or maybe a gallstone that passed, etc. They don't seem to know and in the meantime, we feel like she's wasting away with no appetite and little to no energy by the day. Also, I forgot to note that she does have jaundice which they said her skin color has improved and she has state 3 kidney disease but her doc said that has been stable for the last couple of years. We just don't know what to do at this point and are thinking about ways we can increase her appetite and mental health because depression has set in at this point.

     
    Reply With Quote
    Sponsors Lightbulb
       
    Old 05-30-2019, 08:27 AM   #2
    yayagirl
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jun 2010
    Location: USA
    Posts: 2,401
    yayagirl HB Useryayagirl HB Useryayagirl HB Useryayagirl HB Useryayagirl HB Useryayagirl HB Useryayagirl HB Useryayagirl HB Useryayagirl HB Useryayagirl HB Useryayagirl HB User
    Re: Elevated Liver Enzymes

    Dear star,

    Since doctors admit she is basically OK and they cannot resolve this, personally I would take her home. I would not and no elderly person I have known has thrived at a hospital. It seems this all started with a mouth sore that made eating uncomfortable. But that was resolved. Is this right?

    People that are inactive don't need much to remain healthy, but of course they do need nutritious food. There is not enough nutrients in oatmeal to create health. Does she have the teeth for chewing? Is that a problem?

    Your family has to decide for her, but I would ask her if she wants to go home, and if so, bring her home. I would tell her she has to eat if we bring her home and ask her if she will.

    Is your family worried that she is dying? Of course no one wants grandmother to go.I am resigned to the fact that is what always will happen someday. This perspective helps me to face living, and it is how we live that makes a difference.

    Can she be brought home? Is there anyone that can attend to her and be sure she gets appropriate food? Carbs such as oatmeal, grits or even soup is not enough for the body or brain. She needs protein and vegetables in her soup. There are ways to provide that which taste good and are appetizing. Like vegetable soup made with a soup bone or tiny bits of meat.

    She probably needs someone to be cooking for her and to not live alone on her own. I am just stating my thoughts. You know, much of this may be from loneliness. Of course. I know nothing of her circumstances. I am just thinking if this was my own mother what would I think and do about it.
    __________________
    ~ YaYa ~

     
    Reply With Quote
    Old 05-30-2019, 08:54 AM   #3
    star78
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jan 2019
    Posts: 10
    star78 HB User
    Re: Elevated Liver Enzymes

    Thank you for your response. The mouth issue has not been resolved. They looked in her mouth the first time she was admitted to the hospital and stated it looked like she had an ulcer that was healing. During this second trip to the hospital, they said there does look to be something but they think that's a secondary issue. She has her original teeth in her mouth that look a bit rotten and she has told us that she prefers not eating foods that require a lot of chewing. The docs don't seem to be concerned but she has stated several times she wants to see a dentist and "get these teeth out my mouth". I forgot to mention that a few days after being released from the hospital the first time, she started holding saliva in her mouth and spitting into a napkin. She's still doing that although not as much when she's distracted.

    Despite her test results coming back okay, she appears in worse condition than she did when she was admitted almost two weeks ago. A few relatives are concerned that she may be failing to thrive due to her not really eating or drinking and her being very weak. When she first went into the hospital, she was going to the bathroom by herself, watching TV here and there throughout the day, and just looked to have a bit more life in her. Now, she's using the bed pan and sleeping most of the time.

    She has stated, even as of today, that she wants to go home and can't take it there anymore. The doctors said they are concerned that she won't get enough fluids and such which can result in dehydration again and other problems that can be life threatening. But, as you said, she is not thriving there at all and looks to be regressing with each passing day.

    As far as support, she has all of her closest relatives there to care for her at home 24/7. She lives with family so that is not an issue. When she came home the first time, she was eating very little but still more than what she is now. After researching, we brought up the idea of medical cannabis and one of the doctors said he felt that was a great idea but there is a process with that.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by yayagirl View Post
    Dear star,

    Since doctors admit she is basically OK and they cannot resolve this, personally I would take her home. I would not and no elderly person I have known has thrived at a hospital. It seems this all started with a mouth sore that made eating uncomfortable. But that was resolved. Is this right?

    People that are inactive don't need much to remain healthy, but of course they do need nutritious food. There is not enough nutrients in oatmeal to create health. Does she have the teeth for chewing? Is that a problem?

    Your family has to decide for her, but I would ask her if she wants to go home, and if so, bring her home. I would tell her she has to eat if we bring her home and ask her if she will.

    Is your family worried that she is dying? Of course no one wants grandmother to go.I am resigned to the fact that is what always will happen someday. This perspective helps me to face living, and it is how we live that makes a difference.

    Can she be brought home? Is there anyone that can attend to her and be sure she gets appropriate food? Carbs such as oatmeal, grits or even soup is not enough for the body or brain. She needs protein and vegetables in her soup. There are ways to provide that which taste good and are appetizing. Like vegetable soup made with a soup bone or tiny bits of meat.

    She probably needs someone to be cooking for her and to not live alone on her own. I am just stating my thoughts. You know, much of this may be from loneliness. Of course. I know nothing of her circumstances. I am just thinking if this was my own mother what would I think and do about it.

     
    Reply With Quote
    Old 05-30-2019, 10:21 AM   #4
    yayagirl
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jun 2010
    Location: USA
    Posts: 2,401
    yayagirl HB Useryayagirl HB Useryayagirl HB Useryayagirl HB Useryayagirl HB Useryayagirl HB Useryayagirl HB Useryayagirl HB Useryayagirl HB Useryayagirl HB Useryayagirl HB User
    Re: Elevated Liver Enzymes

    Dear star78,

    You're welcome. Of course I can only make suggestions. Your family knows her best. I so appreciate medical opinion, but after all we are the ones living our lives so we need to be able to make our own decisions. I personally listen to doctors to get feedback and advice, but I don't let them make my choices. I have to live in my body, they don't. So, her wishes need to be respected. I do not do well in hospitals. I only go there if necessary, then I will even check myself out. They are for emergencies not for thriving.

    One thing that may help grandmother is if one of the heads of the family tells her we want to bring you home but we need to know you will try hard to eat, and we will make sure you have food that you can eat, and require her to agree to try hard to do what is needed, including to be walked a couple of times a day. A big family easily can take turns helping her with those things.

    There are all kinds of delicious foods that can be chopped or mashed so she can eat with her tooth issues. A niece had bad teeth and had all of them pulled, and never would wear dentures. She just mashed her food. The teeth should be checked to see if they need to be pulled, but she needs to be informed that dentures are not easy to get used to. My mother used to take hers out and eat without them. We don't have to have teeth. A dentist exam would be in order to find out the status of her teeth. If they are rotting they can be a cause of her not wanting to eat and for getting so ill. She may have a bad taste in her mouth, esp if some teeth are rotting. A dentist can find out what needs to be done about her teeth.

    I don't recommend cannibas but I don't judge who benefits from it or why, either.
    I would first try correcting things like not letting her live alone, getting her dental care and getting her on nutritious food that she can eat with her mouth situation.

    Let me know how things are going with grandmother.
    __________________
    ~ YaYa ~

     
    Reply With Quote
    Old 05-30-2019, 10:50 AM   #5
    jfms99
    Junior Member
    (male)
     
    Join Date: Oct 2017
    Posts: 13
    jfms99 HB User
    Re: Elevated Liver Enzymes

    She could very well have some oral problems causing her to have these problems. She should go to dentist. It might be something like a b ad tooth or infection she has causing her problems. I can't believe her doctors downplay this when it's really important to have good oral care.

     
    Reply With Quote
    Old 06-01-2019, 12:57 PM   #6
    star78
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jan 2019
    Posts: 10
    star78 HB User
    Re: Elevated Liver Enzymes

    I really appreciate the responses. Today is my daughter's HS graduation and instead of celebrating her accomplishments, I have isolated myself in a room, crying my eyes out. This hurts so bad. We were told by the hospital that they were going to give my grandmother a liver biopsy yesterday and then she can go home. She was really looking forward to it but the docs said it would have to be postponed until Monday.

    My mom explained to the medical doctor that my grandmother really wants to come home and that she is depressed being in the hospital at this point. The doc told her they could schedule the biopsy for an outpatient appt but then proceeded to tell her that the liver enzyme numbers went up slightly again. She told my mom that since the numbers are still elevated and with her barely eating, etc and her going home, that she wanted to discuss options for hospice. My mom pretty much lost it at this point. The medical doc said she couldn't say whether my grandmother has weeks or months to live. She said they don't know exactly why her numbers are elevated but it's obvious she is not getting better and there isn't much they can do.

    The med doc said she would get in contact with the liver specialist to let him know that we were going to take my grandmother home. My mom asked what is the point of doing a biopsy if she's talking about hospice care. The liver specialist comes to speak with us and says, "Oh no, let's not think about hospice or any of that right now. I know she wants to go home but I really want her to stay for the weekend so we can schedule the biopsy and she can go home on Monday." He tells us that he can't say for sure what's wrong but he highly suspects that it is autoimmune hepatitis. He said if this is the case, he can treat her and she will feel much better but he won't know for sure until she does the biopsy.

    They told my grandmother that they will do everything to make her feel comfortable this weekend bc he wants to be able to diagnose the problem and in hopefully, get her on the road to recovery. The med doc even said something like "you may have another 10 or 20 yrs in you."

    I'm praying the biopsy does reveal what's going on and that they are able to treat it. In the meantime, I saw my grandmother today and broke down. She has lost more weight, her skin is yellow (jaundice) and her little bvoice fades when talking bc she's so weak. She looked and sound much better the day she went into the hospital. This is so hard and I'm dying inside.


















    Quote:
    Originally Posted by yayagirl View Post
    Dear star78,

    You're welcome. Of course I can only make suggestions. Your family knows her best. I so appreciate medical opinion, but after all we are the ones living our lives so we need to be able to make our own decisions. I personally listen to doctors to get feedback and advice, but I don't let them make my choices. I have to live in my body, they don't. So, her wishes need to be respected. I do not do well in hospitals. I only go there if necessary, then I will even check myself out. They are for emergencies not for thriving.

    One thing that may help grandmother is if one of the heads of the family tells her we want to bring you home but we need to know you will try hard to eat, and we will make sure you have food that you can eat, and require her to agree to try hard to do what is needed, including to be walked a couple of times a day. A big family easily can take turns helping her with those things.

    There are all kinds of delicious foods that can be chopped or mashed so she can eat with her tooth issues. A niece had bad teeth and had all of them pulled, and never would wear dentures. She just mashed her food. The teeth should be checked to see if they need to be pulled, but she needs to be informed that dentures are not easy to get used to. My mother used to take hers out and eat without them. We don't have to have teeth. A dentist exam would be in order to find out the status of her teeth. If they are rotting they can be a cause of her not wanting to eat and for getting so ill. She may have a bad taste in her mouth, esp if some teeth are rotting. A dentist can find out what needs to be done about her teeth.

    I don't recommend cannibas but I don't judge who benefits from it or why, either.
    I would first try correcting things like not letting her live alone, getting her dental care and getting her on nutritious food that she can eat with her mouth situation.

    Let me know how things are going with grandmother.

     
    Reply With Quote
    Old 06-01-2019, 07:06 PM   #7
    MSNik
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Sep 2006
    Location: USA
    Posts: 12,807
    MSNik HB UserMSNik HB UserMSNik HB UserMSNik HB UserMSNik HB UserMSNik HB UserMSNik HB UserMSNik HB UserMSNik HB UserMSNik HB UserMSNik HB User
    Re: Elevated Liver Enzymes

    Hi. I am really sorry to hear you are going through this. Its difficult when we feel so helpless and it seems like no one can do anything.

    Unfortunately, at her age, she has to have the will to get better and she has to want to eat and drink. You didn't say but is there any dementia or any other elderly issues which might cause her to forget to eat (if she isn't reminded) or simply take away her "want" to eat? It would not be uncommon for her to have some dementia going on and this would be a pretty typical response.

    As far as hospice care goes; this is something that her POA (power of attorney) has to agree to. If your family is not on board, no one can force her to go on hospice; however, (and I went through this twice in the past 3 years with family), Hospice is not a bad idea. It only means that you are refusing aggressive treatment- that no surgeries or other measures are to be done. It also means a private nurse coming out to her home a few times a week to check on her and monitor her- and give the family the medical knowledge that they might not have. Sometimes when we see someone daily, we don't notice deterioration... Hospice provides excellent care and really good drugs to keep her comfortable.

    Before your family agrees to this- get the biopsy done, discuss the results. She may be too frail to have any type of procedure if they do find something and hospice might be a great option...or they may find nothing and you might chose to wait another month to see how she does.

    Either way, its hard to realize someone is aging quickly and may not "come back" to their baseline that you are used to.
    Prayers to you and for her.
    __________________
    RRMS- dx 05

     
    Reply With Quote
    Old 06-04-2019, 04:19 PM   #8
    star78
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jan 2019
    Posts: 10
    star78 HB User
    Re: Elevated Liver Enzymes

    My grandmother had the biopsy today. The specialist said that she has had liver problems for about 10 - 15 yrs. He said she had something toxic (they don't know exactly what it is) that caused these secondary problems. They are sending her home tomorrow. They said they can't give her anything as it's one of those things that the body has to fight off and rid itself of. The doc said that he can't promise that she will make a full recovery but that things should start reversing itself in a couple of weeks. Also, they stated last week, before the biopsy, that one of the test results showed she had food poisoning.

    The doc also said asked if we are able to take care of her or if we want her to go into rehab. He didn't say anything about hospice but I just feel like that's where this is going. He did say that they will have her come back in a few weeks and follow up with her primary doctor to check her blood work. They said there is damage to the liver but didn't mention about liver failure. Has anyone heard of something like this?

     
    Reply With Quote
    Old 06-05-2019, 10:40 AM   #9
    quincy
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Apr 2003
    Location: Winnipeg, Canada
    Posts: 5,152
    quincy HB Userquincy HB Userquincy HB Userquincy HB Userquincy HB Userquincy HB Userquincy HB Userquincy HB Userquincy HB Userquincy HB Userquincy HB User
    Re: Elevated Liver Enzymes

    From what I understand... toxicity from meds, OTC meds, supplements, etc can build up in the liver in the elderly, and more so in elderly women. The cause is a slowing down of liver function as we age, therefore they aren't being filtered out as efficiently.

    If your grandmother was taking tylenol, ibuprophen, supplements, a statin med...that could be a contributor.

    If you're able to get a copy of the test results, that might be helpful. Was it a blood test or fecal test that showed food poisoning?

    q
    __________________
    It's all a matter of perspective!
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

     
    Reply With Quote
    Old 06-05-2019, 12:17 PM   #10
    star78
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jan 2019
    Posts: 10
    star78 HB User
    Re: Elevated Liver Enzymes

    I believe it was the fecal test that showed the food poisoning. Also, she did have a cold and cough prior to all of this and I recall her taking NyQuil and possibly Tylenol but it would have been 1-2 doses of both (not at the same time) so I'm not sure what effect that would have on the liver.

    She is feeling quite weak so she is not coming home today. What I don't understand is, if there is some kind of toxin in her system that's causing this, isn't there something that can be given to flush it out? The doc said the toxin will eventually exit her system but the scary thing is if it will exit in time for the liver to start repairing itself because of course, the damage may be irreversible by that time causing the liver to stop functioning altogether.

    I have contacted other specialists to get a second opinion but the main problem is that my grandmother is to weak to go anywhere right now.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by quincy View Post
    From what I understand... toxicity from meds, OTC meds, supplements, etc can build up in the liver in the elderly, and more so in elderly women. The cause is a slowing down of liver function as we age, therefore they aren't being filtered out as efficiently.

    If your grandmother was taking tylenol, ibuprophen, supplements, a statin med...that could be a contributor.

    If you're able to get a copy of the test results, that might be helpful. Was it a blood test or fecal test that showed food poisoning?

    q

     
    Reply With Quote
    Old 06-06-2019, 07:15 PM   #11
    quincy
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Apr 2003
    Location: Winnipeg, Canada
    Posts: 5,152
    quincy HB Userquincy HB Userquincy HB Userquincy HB Userquincy HB Userquincy HB Userquincy HB Userquincy HB Userquincy HB Userquincy HB Userquincy HB User
    Re: Elevated Liver Enzymes

    A second opinion can be helpful if other tests and the original test results reviewed with you. It's a lot to take in on an emotional level.

    What exactly is the liver problem over the past 10ish years your grandmother has?

    Fecal test positive means she has gastro infection....what med is she on for it, and what exactly is the infection?

    I cannot stress enough to request exact results. Some gastro infections might affect the liver. But if your grandmother has liver disease and is toxic...the question is what came first.

    I hope you find answers. In your quest for answers, know the results so that you get honest answers from the doctors and you can understand exactly what is happening,

    Please update us.

    Hugs,
    q
    __________________
    It's all a matter of perspective!
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

     
    Reply With Quote
    Reply Reply




    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Search this Thread:

    Advanced Search

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is Off
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are Off
    Pingbacks are Off
    Refbacks are Off




    Sign Up Today!

    Ask our community of thousands of members your health questions, and learn from others experiences. Join the conversation!

    I want my free account

    All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:41 PM.





    2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved.
    Do not copy or redistribute in any form!